Cable Forum - This NI increase for Social/Health Care

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- - This NI increase for Social/Health Care (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710351)

Carth

05-09-2021 12:19

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36092161)

However, when you artificially decrease the profits by paying "licence" fees to another subsidiary in a low-tax regime…

:Yes:

Not the only trick in the portfolio either I bet ;)

nomadking

05-09-2021 12:39

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36092161)

However, when you artificially decrease the profits by paying "licence" fees to another subsidiary in a low-tax regime…

Where else are the costs involved in developing and maintaining that intellectual property, supposed to come from?:rolleyes: That IP income is still liable for tax somewhere.

Nobody in their rights mind would move worldwide intellectual property rights to the UK, whatever the tax level. One minute the IP tax levels are low, then suddenly they could be ridiculously high. Too unstable a political and tax environment.
The bulk of the tax paid on a car bought in the UK, but built in Germany, is paid in Germany. That is where the cost of building the car occurred. It is an IMPORT. The car showrooms etc, will earn income, and will be liable for UK tax. Again, nothing new in that.
If you earned royalties worldwide from music, which would rather do, deal with over a hundred different tax regimes in different countries, or deal with one tax regime. When they move some of that income to the UK, they are taxed on it.

Many Care homes are facing bankruptcy. The costs are constantly being driven higher, but their income isn't matching it.

Carth

05-09-2021 13:17

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Council owned care homes, or Private care homes?

There's a difference ;)

Taf	05-09-2021 13:48

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36092170)

Council owned care homes, or Private care homes?

There's a difference ;)

Our council, along with many others I bet, sold off their care homes, so as to reduce the number of staff they employed. All part of delaying the pension bubble explosion due at some point in Local Government.

Sephiroth

06-09-2021 15:42

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36092154)

Let the big corporations pay a fair share of taxes then let's turn to increasing NI for all.

Yes to the words I've highlighted.

"Increasing NI for all" - what is meant by that? Including pensioners?

There is plenty of money in the system if you take the unwanted HS2 into account. I hope it's not too late to stop it, especially as it looks like going no further than Birmingham, which is not a massive "must go to" place.

Also, we spend too much on foreign aid - for what? Voting our way in the UN? To hell with that as we shouldn't be projecting ourselves as a world power.

We also put up illegal immigrants in 4-star hotels rather than in former army barracks.

The Guvmin must not renege on Boris' GUARANTEE not to increase the main direct taxes, perhaps with the exception of VAT which ia a valuable fiscal lever. The pandemic has nothing to do with the need for implementing the Social Care programme.

A one year suspension of the OAP triple lock is sort of justifiable, but is it the thin end of the wedge as the temptation to crap on the pensioners in the following year might be too great.

mrmistoffelees

06-09-2021 16:17

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36092221)

Yes to the words I've highlighted.

"Increasing NI for all" - what is meant by that? Including pensioners? - Current pensioners contributions paid for those before them NOT for their own care. So yes, they should contribute either via NI or by partial equity release scheme as i've suggested above.

There is plenty of money in the system if you take the unwanted HS2 into account. I hope it's not too late to stop it, especially as it looks like going no further than Birmingham, which is not a massive "must go to" place. - Sorry, we owe how much due to the pandemic that needs to be paid back?

Also, we spend too much on foreign aid - for what? Voting our way in the UN? To hell with that as we shouldn't be projecting ourselves as a world power. - So what's Global Britain all about then?

We also put up illegal immigrants in 4-star hotels rather than in former army barracks. - No, we don't asylum seekers may be put into hotels and a very small quantity were placed into 4-star hotels, however 1) this was only a temporary measure & 2) those hotels would have been empty due to covid anyway, so those hotels actually got some revenue.

The Guvmin must not renege on Boris' GUARANTEE not to increase the main direct taxes, perhaps with the exception of VAT which ia a valuable fiscal lever. The pandemic has nothing to do with the need for implementing the Social Care programme.

A one year suspension of the OAP triple lock is sort of justifiable, but is it the thin end of the wedge as the temptation to crap on the pensioners in the following year might be too great.

Spectacular Daily Mail esque posting Sephi.... Bravo

Sephiroth

06-09-2021 16:54

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36092223)

Spectacular Daily Mail esque posting Sephi.... Bravo

Quote:

Yes to the words I've highlighted.
"Increasing NI for all" - what is meant by that? Including pensioners?
Current pensioners contributions paid for those before them NOT for their own care. So yes, they should contribute either via NI or by partial equity release scheme as i've suggested above.
I think you're wrong on so many levels. First, I and my employer has been paying in for donkey's years. And that's in addition to my private pension schemes. So, I've paid for my pension. Next, I can see an argument for paying NI, say towards medical support, but it must be kept low for pensioners for obvious reasons. Finally on equity release, it's bad enough that there is an inheritance tax but to have to pre-pay that is downright wrong.

There is plenty of money in the system if you take the unwanted HS2 into account. I hope it's not too late to stop it, especially as it looks like going no further than Birmingham, which is not a massive "must go to" place. - Sorry, we owe how much due to the pandemic that needs to be paid back?
We had this after WW2. Took about 60 years to pay back.
That's the plan here. That debt has nothing to do with the need for a social care plan. I note you didn't comment on HS2.

Also, we spend too much on foreign aid - for what? Voting our way in the UN? To hell with that as we shouldn't be projecting ourselves as a world power. - So what's Global Britain all about then?
Which is more important? Global Britain or social care? Basically, we should stop wasting money on Global Britain.

We also put up illegal immigrants in 4-star hotels rather than in former army barracks. - No, we don't asylum seekers may be put into hotels and a very small quantity were placed into 4-star hotels, however 1) this was only a temporary measure & 2) those hotels would have been empty due to Covid anyway, so those hotels actually got some revenue. If you say so. We need those illegal immigrants like a hole in the head.

<SNIP my remaining remarks>

Carth

06-09-2021 17:49

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Seems some people want pensioners to pay towards the state pension they're now getting, so I'm wondering who's pension I've been paying for over the last 52 years?

Sephiroth

06-09-2021 17:55

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36092231)

Seems some people want pensioners to pay towards the state pension they're now getting, so I'm wondering who's pension I've been paying for over the last 52 years?

MrM has it hopelessly wrong. His response was very shallow.
Either it was just for the sake of being contrary, or he really didn't have sensible arguments to put forward.

If he was being serious, I detect quite a note of bitterness for some reason.

heero_yuy

06-09-2021 18:08

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36092231)

Seems some people want pensioners to pay towards the state pension they're now getting, so I'm wondering who's pension I've been paying for over the last 52 years?

The whole thing is a giant Ponzi scheme. The current contributors pay for those taking out of the system.

Hugh	06-09-2021 18:20

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36092234)

The whole thing is a giant Ponzi scheme. The current contributors pay for those taking out of the system.

Yup…

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1472132879

The average household (2 people) paid (in 2016) £107,045 of Employee’s National Insurance Contributions - divide that by 2, and you get £53,523 payments in; State Pension in 2016 was £137.60 per week, or £7,155.20 per year, so the average person got their payments back if they lived to 72.

TheDaddy

06-09-2021 18:22

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36092231)

Seems some people want pensioners to pay towards the state pension they're now getting, so I'm wondering who's pension I've been paying for over the last 52 years?

Seems like some people want others to pay for their care without contributing themselves, wonder if bozo will be let of the hook for this mess to

Carth

06-09-2021 19:16

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36092237)

Seems like some people want others to pay for their care without contributing themselves, wonder if bozo will be let of the hook for this mess to

You can't go around knocking the unemployed like that mate, it's not their fault they haven't worked and contributed for 30 years :D

Hugh	06-09-2021 19:53

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Thing is, on average, most people don’t fully fund their state pension with their own NI Contributions…

I’ve had to use averages for these calculations, because that evens out those getting paid/paying less and those getting paid/paying more.

Average salary in U.K. is around £30k pa - the employee NI contributions on this are £2,460 pa; if you consider most people will work for 45 years, their lifetime NI payments will be just under £112k.

Current average time between getting the State Pension and popping one’s clogs is 15 years, and as the current State Pension is £180 per week (£9,360 pa), and over 15 years this is just over £140k.

If you add in the Employers NICs of around £2,700 pa for 45 years, you get another £122k, giving (hypothetically) a state pension fund of £234k per person.

Unfortunately, the NI Fund doesn’t just pay the state pension - it’s also supposed to fund the NHS, statutory sick pay, maternity leave, & entitlement to additional unemployment benefits.

Hom3r

06-09-2021 19:58

Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36092146)

I'd be pressing the private care homes to justify the insane charges they demand for care.

At the start of the pandemic, private homes were screaming poverty, saying they were unable to pay for PPE which they should have had in use already for the most vulnerable.

And meanwhile the greatest number of deaths were occurring on their premises, with minimum-wage workers moving from site-to-site several times a day, often carrying the virus.

My late mum was moved from our local hospital to a nursing home some 30 mins drive away, we weren't charged as the NHS needed the hospital bed due to the coronavirus.

We eventually got her home but as she had £3,000 more in savings she would have had to pay the £2,700 a month, after which she would have to pay something like £100 a month.

But sadly we only paid for 4 visits as she died.

It was annoying all the hoops we had to go through, and I thank my sister for doing nearly all the meetings (Skype).

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