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-   -   Electric heating only? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710029)

1andrew1 18-05-2021 20:32
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36079970)
There will be a lot of gas engineers out of a job if this happens unless their skills can be used on the new setup.
Lots of work for them in disconnecting the current boilers even if they choose not to re-train in the new set-up. ;)

Chris 18-05-2021 20:52
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36079967)
It was not too long ago that HMG was going-on about home gas boilers being used to generate electricity.

There were surveys done in several local gardens in out area with probes placed at various depths in the soil. The outcome was a definite NO to heat pumps being a good idea around here. The survey was done by a consortium of heat pump manufacturers and installers.

And one family got told to remove the windmill they erected in their back garden. And only after a few weeks. No-one I talked to ever heard any noise at all. But the complaints were found to come from bird lovers.

The local housing associations have been very good at fitting solar panels, but all the output is sold to the grid. The council thought about them, then after paying a fortune for consultants, the idea was dropped (as has their plan to change all street lights to LED).
Nobody’s talking about ground source heat pumps any more - air source pumps are as efficient now as ground source ones were a decade ago, and they have the advantage of not destroying your garden or needing a 100 metre deep borehole under your patio.

There’s nothing remotely controversial about the technology - they are to all intents and purposes the same as the air-con units you see mounted on the back of every office and large shop in the country. A big fan and a compressor, designed to collect heat from one environment and shunt it to another.

Jaymoss 18-05-2021 20:58
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36079974)
Nobody’s talking about ground source heat pumps any more - air source pumps are as efficient now as ground source ones were a decade ago, and they have the advantage of not destroying your garden or needing a 100 metre deep borehole under your patio.

There’s nothing remotely controversial about the technology - they are to all intents and purposes the same as the air-con units you see mounted on the back of every office and large shop in the country. A big fan and a compressor, designed to collect heat from one environment and shunt it to another.

How about cost? I doubt there will be millions in the kitty for grants. Are they likely to be similar to just buying a boiler or how I expect is astronomically higher in cost

A quick google says £6 to 8K

Mad Max 18-05-2021 20:59
Re: Electric heating only?
 
The heat pumps use refrigerant, an air source heat pump costs more than a new gas or oil-fired central heating system. The typical air source heat pump cost ranges from £4,000-8,000, depending on the pump brand and its heat output.

Jaymoss 18-05-2021 21:04
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36079979)
The heat pumps use refrigerant, an air source heat pump costs more than a new gas or oil-fired central heating system. The typical air source heat pump cost ranges from £4,000-8,000, depending on the pump brand and its heat output.
Sometimes you got to be grateful for living in a council house

Chris 18-05-2021 21:09
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36079979)
The heat pumps use refrigerant, an air source heat pump costs more than a new gas or oil-fired central heating system. The typical air source heat pump cost ranges from £4,000-8,000, depending on the pump brand and its heat output.
That’s entirely down to economies of scale though. If every house in the country had one they’d be no more expensive than a gas boiler.

Sephiroth 18-05-2021 21:23
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36079979)
The heat pumps use refrigerant, an air source heat pump costs more than a new gas or oil-fired central heating system. The typical air source heat pump cost ranges from £4,000-8,000, depending on the pump brand and its heat output.
Homes would currently spend p.a. between £1,000 and £2,500 (or more) on gas for heating/cooking. Apart from unemployment at British Gas, it seems to me that the £8,000 heat pump cost is an easily mortgageable item.

Carth 18-05-2021 21:26
Re: Electric heating only?
 
How long will they last?
What's the service cost every year?
Does the electricity useage increase by a large amount?
Do they work better in Summer or Winter - does extreme air temperature affect performance?

My 20+ year old gas boiler is still going, it'll probably outlast me ;) :D

nomadking 18-05-2021 21:37
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36079981)
That’s entirely down to economies of scale though. If every house in the country had one they’d be no more expensive than a gas boiler.
That assumes that the majority of the cost is the heat pump system itself.
The costs involved with installing won't change. Having to rip out existing central heating systems won't come cheap.

Jaymoss 18-05-2021 21:43
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36079984)
Homes would currently spend p.a. between £1,000 and £2,500 (or more) on gas for heating/cooking. Apart from unemployment at British Gas, it seems to me that the £8,000 heat pump cost is an easily mortgageable item.
not everyone can put their hands on 8K easily. Plus I have never met anyone pay 2.5K a year on gas. Unless you do in your mansion or castle hehehehe

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36079988)
That assumes that the majority of the cost is the heat pump system itself.
The costs involved with installing won't change. Having to rip out existing central heating systems won't come cheap.
plus it is going to make a mess of the property. So 8K for heat pump assuming that is all in they what another 2K for redecorating. That is a hefty bill

Chris 18-05-2021 21:45
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Yes, they have to work harder the colder the outdoor air is - there’s less energy in the colder air so the pump has to use more energy and drive more air through itself in order to achieve the target temperature indoors. If he house is poorly insulated and prone to losing heat easily then the problem is all the more acute. The UK’s particular problem is that we have been spoiled by cheap energy (abundant coal, then natural gas) so we have had no particular incentive to spend on energy efficient homes. So before you install a heat pump you have to make sure the house is well insulated.

Service and spares are hard to quantify in any meaningful way because those costs come down with economies of scale just as the installation cost does. But the machinery is not fundamentally difficult. How often does your fridge/freezer break down? It’s the same principle on a smaller scale.

1andrew1 18-05-2021 21:46
Re: Electric heating only?
 
These are not small sums but presumably money can be borrowed over a long period of time to finance them. And the cost of dealing with extreme weather due to global warming doesn't come cheap either, even if the UK is less affected at the moment than some other countries.

Jaymoss 18-05-2021 21:51
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079993)
These are not small sums but presumably money can be borrowed over a long period of time to finance them. And the cost of dealing with extreme weather due to global warming doesn't come cheap either, even if the UK is less affected at the moment than some other countries.
so the large sum becomes an even larger sum due to interest?

1andrew1 18-05-2021 22:09
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36079994)
so the large sum becomes an even larger sum due to interest?
Depends how it's handled. Interest rates are very low at the moment so the government may decide to underwrite such heating investment and make loans interest free.

The alternative is higher taxes to pay for the impacts of global warming so it's more of a necessity than a luxury.

Sephiroth 18-05-2021 22:20
Re: Electric heating only?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36079994)
so the large sum becomes an even larger sum due to interest?
That's what mortgages are for.


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