Cable Forum - Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

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Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 35968964)

Once a newsagent had a copy of the gaming machine industry magazine on the shelf and I remember some of the articles including

"remote" access to the machine so payout can be adjusted within limits - e.g. better payouts for your regulars/mates
psychologists to work out patterns to hook players and keep them playing
having non-payout machines that could be placed where young people could play them (not gambling, no controls) to get them used to playing so they would use real gaming machines later.

As someone who was hooked on the older fruit machines I know how easy it is to make just one more play. And bookies have little incentive to control punters playing beyond keeping their license and general goodwill.

These machines are now even worse with bigger stakes and faster plays and no human to say "enough".

I'd also like to see advertising for gambling banned or more strictly controlled. Treat the same as tobacco or alcohol advertising and sponsorship.

From Parliamentary briefing paper dated 23rd Oct 2018.

Quote:

At the then Government’s request, the ABB commissioned research to assess the effectiveness of the November 2003 code of practice in providing protection against problem gambling and to measure and explain levels of problem gambling amongst FOBT users. The subsequent report by Europe Economics was published in April 2005.
...
1.8.2 Problem gamblers characteristically participate in a variety of forms of gambling, and it has not been statistically possible through this research to identify any one form of gambling as causing or aggravating problem gambling. There is no evidence in this study which suggests that FOBTs are closely associated with problem gambling.
...

A June 2006 follow-up report said that FOBTs were “not more associated with problem gambling than any other form or forms of gambling”.

Quote:

In a June 2013 letter to the Secretary of State, the Commission set out its formal advice on the triennial review.42 On gambling-related harm, the Commission observed:
...
The Commission acknowledged that there was a “serious case” to answer in relation to B2s but said a precautionary reduction in stakes was “unsupported by the available evidence”

Quote:

In December 2016, GambleAware commissioned further evaluation of the Regulations. This was at the request of the RGSB.
The research was published in January 2017. The authors concluded: “Generally, our findings do not support the proposition that nudging players towards lower stakes mitigated harm or made play more responsible.” In attempting to mitigate harm, they said it might be optimistic to focus on stake size while neglecting other elements of players’ “choice architecture” such as speed of play or mechanism for paying.

What is this "remote access" meant to be? Is it merely because they are FIXED odds machines and if RANDOMLY there has been losses so the FIXED odds DICTATE that there has to be a winner soon in that time period? It's not like horse racing where it's possible to back a loser 100% of the time no matter how many times you bet.

Is there an actual fixed pattern to how they play out or was it merely a study to examine the POTENTIAL patterns?

Non-payout machines are NOT placed side-by-side with FOBTs. Young people are not even allowed into the premises with FOBTs.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

I was always under the impression that 'remote access' was the clever name for playing gambling machines on phones, home computers, the (late night) TV etc, as opposed to playing a physical machine in a pub, bookies, casino and the like.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35968977)

Which are not to affected by changes of stake limits.

Personally I'm not particularly bothered either way. I'm just sick and tired of the constant ill-founded hysteria on one topic after another.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35968961)

The industry has had more then enough time to adjust as they knew this was coming years ago but they chose to base a lot of their business models on FOBT's because of the huge profits it brought in.

Not really. You can't run a business on the basis of what might happen. The legislation was passed only recently, and it is only fair that businesses are given time to adjust.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35969019)

Not really. You can't run a business on the basis of what might happen. The legislation was passed only recently, and it is only fair that businesses are given time to adjust.

Absolute rubbish as the bookmakers knew this was coming years ago and should have planned accordingly in their businesses so stop making excuses for them.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35969019)

Not really. You can't run a business on the basis of what might happen. The legislation was passed only recently, and it is only fair that businesses are given time to adjust.

6 months is long enough to adjust, this is all about getting extra revenue for the Treasury.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35969024)

Absolute rubbish as the bookmakers knew this was coming years ago and should have planned accordingly in their businesses so stop making excuses for them.

We've known that Brexit has been coming for a couple of years, but industry is not prepared because they don't know the detail.

Many laws get proposed which do not get enacted. You can't expect industry to prepare for legislation that may not see the light of day.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35969100)

We've known that Brexit has been coming for a couple of years, but industry is not prepared because they don't know the detail.

Many laws get proposed which do not get enacted. You can't expect industry to prepare for legislation that may not see the light of day.

This was in the offing before the Brexit referendum ever happened so making excuses because of that does not wash IMO.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35969101)

This was in the offing before the Brexit referendum ever happened so making excuses because of that does not wash IMO.

It doesn't matter for how long this has been discussed. My point is, until the legislation passes through Parliament, businesses can't be expected to prepare for it. They might forgo investment until the direction is clear, but they are not going to respond with costly changes to their businesses until there is certainty.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35969112)

Don't worry about bookmakers too much OB, they'll be the last to go under ...

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35969127)

Don't worry about bookmakers too much OB, they'll be the last to go under ...

I'm not worried about them at all and I don't approve of betting. However, it's something we have to live with. Ban it and you will just send it underground.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

It will never be banned l can assure you of that.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35969134)

It will never be banned l can assure you of that.

It used to be until the government realised it was another source of income with betting tax.

Then a Labour government scrapped that then all of a sudden FOBT's sprung up along with TV and online betting, increased payouts in pubs etc.

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

FOBTs return 97% of the money put into them. They are deliberately low margin devices.
From Parliamentary briefing paper dated 23rd Oct 2018.

Quote:

Changes to the taxation of gambling (i.e. the introduction of a gross tax on profits) came into effect in October 20012 and allowed the betting industry to introduce new lower margin products, such as roulette, to FOBTs.

This means that you will win if you keep playing. With gambling on something like horse racing, you can bet 1,000 times and lose each time.

Quote:

The ABB set out its position on B2s in more detail in an April 2013 paper. This claimed, among other things, that:
The average amount spent by customers on a B2 gaming machine is around £11 per machine per hour.
And 74% of B2 players play once a month or less which is hardly reflective of an addictive product. There is no evidence of a causal link between gaming machines and higher levels of problem gambling and the percentage of identified problem gamblers playing on B2 machines actually went down by 20-25% from 2007 to 2010…

Re: Tracy Crouch resigns as Sports Minister

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35969144)

FOBTs return 97% of the money put into them. They are deliberately low margin devices.
From Parliamentary briefing paper dated 23rd Oct 2018.
This means that you will win if you keep playing. With gambling on something like horse racing, you can bet 1,000 times and lose each time.

That's exactly what my brother thought and believed when he had a gaming machine (bandits) addiction.

I had to watch him put a full months pay into one of them because he just would not listen and was convinced he was winning until he had nothing left.

Over what period of time must his 97% be paid out? 1 week? 1 month? 1 Year?

Is the machine allowed to be changed for any reason before that percentage payout has been achieved and if it is repaired (if necessary) and placed in another location does it still have to remember what it has taken in before and give a big win in the new location?

Ever thought why machines (especially in pubs) are changed on a frequent basis?