Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

It would only be manslaughter if he were criminally negligent in some way.

Again we're being told little about this with the reporting not even making it clear if this is standard practise while an investigation takes place. A person was killed so the police do need to investigate. This must be either a normal thing the police do in this circumstance or more information to come out. It would of course be outrageous if there is nothing else to it, the circumstances are as described, and yet he is charged.

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

Also might help if the police bothered with burglary not just giving out a crime number for insurance purposes after the event.

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

[QUOTE=Arthurgray50@blu;35942672]


"Reasonable force, is that you can protect YOURSELF, and can push to person to the floor, and hold that person to the floor or lock that person in a room. Before police arrive."



Reply-
Surely it is not reasonable to expect your average 78 year old to wrestle a young, strong and presumably healthy younger person to the floor, restrain them whilst at the same time phoning the police, chances are the phone is in another room, a lot of older people do not have mobiles. Also these days how long before the police arrive? Personally I would grab the nearest object and let them have it! :erm:

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

Whats reasonable force for an mma fighter is totally different then reasonable force for a scared 78 year old man, if it's standard procedure to charge people before they investigate maybe it's time the procedure was changed as I'm sure that pensioner was probably in a state of shock after the incident and didn't need to hear he was being charged for defending himself.

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

If you are woken in the night with intruders threatening you with a screwdriver where do you get a knife?

I'm not trying to excuse either way or what I would do if I saw the opportunity, I think that often there is too much protection for "the villain" and not enough for "the victim". If "the authorities" were focussing on preventing crime rather than on "clear up rates" there would be less issues. (I'm using generalities here deliberately as things are usually much more complex than can be discussed in a couple of paragraphs.)

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

He hasn't yet been charged.

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

I have not studied law nor do I claim to have done but it is my understanding.

If charges should be brought against someone in where reasonable force is being questioned, once again it is my understanding, it then could be argued without doubt that the defendant felt the need not only to to protect his or her property but their main concern was their family members example: spouse, plus themselves as at the time they feared for their lives therefore the force used was reasonable given circumstances? It can also be be argued that if the spouse is elderly and frail then reasonable force was used when defense has taken place from a intruder, having said this there is no getting getting away from (feared for their lives) is a very strong statement and should only be used without reasonable doubt and understanding - example one that the jury can fully understand example in the situation of the defendant.

It is also my understanding when someone enters your property without invite therefore they are classed by law as a intruder and there is no rule in law to say that a person must wait to be struck first before they may defend themselves when the use of force is used against someone committing crime against you but saying this, this can be a very grey area depending on the all the facts.

Crime is taking place inside your home.
You can use reasonable force to protect yourself or others if a crime is taking place inside your home. This means you can protect yourself in the heat of the moment and this includes using an object as a weapon.

In regards to prosecutors in assessing the reasonableness of the force used, prosecutors should ask two questions was the use of force necessary in the circumstances, was there a need for any force at all.

Then it my understanding in regards to burden of proof, prosecutors need to take special care to recognise, and ensure all sufficiency of evidence in cases where self-defense is used.

Again I'm not legally trained this is just my understanding of reasonable force and I may be wrong in my understandings and the legal system.

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

He’s been bailed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43648896

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

Good and so he should be IMO plus I do honestly hope beyond hope that this poor man does not get charged and for what I can see you could be prosecuted if, for example, you: carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger, pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police by all accounts this seems not to apply here as he contacted the police and I don't suppose for one minute he carried on attacking this man nor tried to set out to trap them as I'm sure I read that the man who died that his partner in this crime tried to help him before fleeing the scene.

I know if I was on the jury there is no way I would send down a 78 year old man for defending his beloved wife and property.

https://www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

I think this is disgusting. He should not be charged with anything. The presumption should always be self defence in a situation like this, unless there is proof to the contrary.

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

He hasn’t been charged. If he is then we’ll have to see why.

GOOD... Lets hope the bail $$$ gets returned and he gets cleared!!

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

I have a hammer by my bed for smashing bedroom windows if there is a fire. If that ends up in a intruders head in the dead of night then so be it. If you break into my house you will get what you deserve if you don't leave peacefully.

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

Or if you're half asleep, accidentally brain a relative, or hang a picture up ? ;)

If someone kills somebody they are usually arrested until the full facts are known. If they have acted unlawfully they'll get charged, which hasn't happened. You could reasonably disable somebody or defend yourself, but what if they go on to kill/torture once the intruder has been rendered unconscious? Not that I'm saying that this has happened here; but the facts have to be established. Even if charged you're presumed innocent until proved guilty in a court.

Re: 78 Year old Pensioner Arrested for killing burglar
 

https://www.gov.uk/charged-crime/bail

It's different in the UK there is no money involved .