Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

He just has the same powers as Jo Public. It all comes down to the term "reasonable"

Did the security guard act reasonably.

Did he have firm grounds to suspect the shoplifter.
One would suspect he had witnessed or been informed.

Did he use reasonable force to detain him.
Not in my opinion if he ideed "rugby tackled him.

Personally, I would think that a rugby style tackle to stop and detain somebody was reasonable. If he tackled then gave him a few punches and kicks then that is unreasonable.
As a "rugby tackle" can lead to injury to one or both then it is not "reasonable force".

The police have no option but to arrest the guy, I would hope he would be ok in court.

Only sticky point is, if the security guard knew the guy had a bottle on his person, he does have a duty of care to think about the guys safety before he tackles him. That is what might be an issue, but it would be very harsh. That is most likely the issue. Do I think a manslaughter charge is warrented? No. Perhaps the lesser charge of death by misadventure.

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

This is a long time ago but iirc it doesn't come down to reasonable, first and foremost it comes down to whether the crime committed is indictable and low level theft such as this isn't, it's dealt with by magistrates, I hope for the guards sake the guy that died was banned from the shop or has a long criminal record or that'll be more questions he'll have to answer or answer for. As I said earlier citizens arrest is a minefield just waiting to go of in your face.

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

In a game of rugby, a rugby tackle is considered 'reasonable force' to stop the progress of the ball carrier. This theft is a circumstance with the worst, and unpredictable, outcome but the security guard took action to prevent the escape of a thief after a crime.

The security guard will anguish over this incident for the rest of his life but, if it was the initial tackle that caused the death, the thief invited it.

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

He's got the fact it's not an indictable offence going against him though, as well as the SIA that will likely go against him too for using anything that went to the floor as a restraint. If no indictable offence has been committed and there's no imminent risk to the safety of yourself or others then using what's considered the most dangerous intervention is going to do you absolutely no favors. We know why he's done it, it's bollocks but as TD said, there's going to be a quite a bit to answer for. It's all governing body nonsense with the SIA, then there's the law of course.

This case will be used for something that's been pushed for a while now and lead to a few or/and scenario's for reform within SIA training.

The first will be the merger of the Security Guard and Door Supervision Licence so that everyone will be made to complete Physical Intervention training/or the introduction of Physical Intervention to the Security Guard module, the latter being a pointless one as they're the same course without PI for the SG one.

This second one has been discussed with Aegis trainers and brought up to SIA rep's on numerous occasions, this case will now be used to push further that Physical Intervention requirements and assessments should last more than a single day. As it stands, the PI module consists of 13 different interventions. (restraints and conflict management) They believe it should be extended to 3 days minimum and if need be, a week. They'd like to see more added to the interventions to cover exactly this, ground work because it's amazing how many doormen will still stick their knee in someones neck whilst the poor sods face down, that's a serious red flag in a world of Health and safety red tape. I say poor sod but he could be a right bellend, you still shouldn't be doing it though, there's far safer ways to restrain someone that are just as effective whilst reducing the risk ten fold. Why don't the SIA teach you ground restraints properly then? As above, The SIA's stance is they don't want you taking anyone to the floor.

Another is for Licence holders to complete one day of upskilling per year (refresher)

The last isn't SIA related, Aegis want certain employers, mostly door supervision and protection services to offer better work to people Aegis certified, obviously promoting themselves there but of course promoting better training all round.

I can't sit and say, yeah I'd never have done that because blah blah, it's not that simple, anything can happen in the heat of the moment.

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

Ok. So where would I stand if, say, I had witnessed the theft and tackled the bloke with the same outcome? Are we just going to let thieves walk away with freebies that we all work hard to afford?

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

you sound like a vigilante out for justice but who's justice ?

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

Be the same outcome. That Licence is just a requirement to work within the security industry. He's no different from yourself. The difference in a court case is you could argue you've never been subject the same training and thus could plead you didn't know any better.

I know it's all BS, and backwards, its a no win scenario regardless of what any court says.

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

You do know I'm Steven Seagull don't you? :)

It is indeed BS. Next theft I witness I'll perhaps ask if he needs any help to load his boot with the loot. What the flip is going on?!?!:mad:

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

Under Common Law, as a citizen. We have the power to arrest someone. If he has committed a crime. Its called Citizens Arrest.

As long as you use 'reasonable force' IF anyone steals an item, and you run after that person. They fall over, and then as result of that. The person becomes deceased.

This is the tricky side of the law.

I feel for the security guard. He was doing his job. I know some stores that ALLOW the shoplifter to steal, as the employer has told them that they are just a deterrent - that's all.

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

Yes, this happened to papa smurf at a recent visit to Victoria's Secret ;)

Re: Security guard, 20, is arrested after Asda shoplifter he tackled was killed
 

At present everyone here is making assumptions on the information so far released.

We do not know the full circumstanses nor the situation.

Was the security guard doing his job or did he overstep his authority. None of us know at present.

Coming to a conclusion in an absence of the full facts is a hiding to nothing.

Citizens arrest is also a minefield governed by what is deemed as "Reasonable" force.