Re: Normandy siege
 

In 2010, around 42% thought homosexuality was always wrong or almost always wrong...

http://www.brin.ac.uk/figures/attitu...ds-gay-rights/

Re: Normandy siege
 

Its pretty irrelevant what Christians think as generally they're not likely to kill you for being gay, they're more likely to pray for what they think is a sinner than throw them of a roof or hang them, still don't let that stop anyone from trying to divert attention from the real problem at hand.

Re: Normandy siege
 

They have no where near left Iraq, they still control one of the major cities - Mosul.

They have been pushed back slightly, and for sure they're not gaining any new ground but they still have a large footprint.

We need to take away their "state", whilst they can still claim to have a caliphate the nutters around the world will think they have a cause to follow.

It's human nature that no one will back a loser. if ISIS are seen to be beaten, you can bet that killings in the name of ISIS will reduce.

It's not a cure all, the jihadists will still be out there and will no doubt try to form another group. Many ISIS were formally Taliban or Al Qaeda and they need to be rooted out and eliminated.

But we need to take away their state, it's the only way.

Re: Normandy siege
 

But we were discussing (regarding the survey quoted) the attitudes of Muslims in the UK....

Re: Normandy siege
 

Nope, but do you happen to have any figures on christians who have sympathy for people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice or how many sympathise with people who take part in violence against those who mock Jesus?

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But the attitudes of Muslims lead to many, many deaths. The attitudes of christians to those same things don't :shrug:

Re: Normandy siege
 

As most of you are aware I'm not religious in anyway but on the topic of terrorism you can't compare Christians to Muslims while there are a few extreme belief Christian groups they don't come close to the damage and death that Islamic extremists do. Islamic extremists see zero problem in killing anyone who doesn't agree with them or breaks any of the laws they themselves break often. I have never seen or heard of an instance where a media company was attacked for putting an image of Jesus in any article or had death threats levelled at them.

The biggest problem in dealing with this is that while many moderate Muslims would never commit a terrorist act there is a sizable group that would support it or at the very least wouldn't work with us to prevent it. Core principles of Islam are in direct contradiction to the society we have built in the West and the level of integration is low. Not all Muslims are our enemy but unless all non extremist Muslims start to help solve the problem and actually view us as fellow citizens on an equal level we are going to continue to see problems occur and eventually a backlash that will as it always does hit the wrong one's.

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I don't think the problem is anywhere as simple as Muslims = Bad, Christians = Good. Not that I think that is what you are saying, but many people do. It's also not as simple as saying good Muslims should condemn the bad. Do we ask that good christians condemn the actions of bad? As for whether extremist christians do as much damage as extremist muslims, they don't generally, but there have been quite a few incidents in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...#United_States

The problem is disillusionment. Young people in general are apparently feeling that they are excluded from their community. I suspect this is leading to them finding their own groups. In some cases, it's gangs. In others, Daesh (ISIS) have been surprisingly effective at recruiting these people.

I have it on good authority that this problem is particularly acute in Muslim communities, with massive divisions between the Muslim elders and young people.

Excluding a group because of their religion is not going to help this problem. If anything, it will make it worse. Why should a young Muslim care for a community that rejects him based purely on the colour of his skin, or what religion he chooses, or has been bought up to believe? Most people know it is bad to kill, but the psychological conditioning that prevents us killing can be bypassed with careful programming. This is something that, again, Daesh have been effective at taking advantage of.

I think that society (as a whole) needs to tackle the problem. I don't know how we are going to do it, but I think we need to work with Islam rather than just condemn it because it doesn't condemn it's own believers, or exclude people because of their beliefs.

Re: Normandy siege
 

:tu:

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It's now a question of time we've wasted a lot in the past and I don't think we have much in the future before the right wing start to gain traction and whilst it's true not all Muslims are bad the community as a whole knows about extremism and rarely confronts it allowing it to spread. There is a reluctance to confront extremism in mosques with most preferring to move to another mosque as though small in number the extremists are very good at intimidating people and that's made easier by them grouping in small geographic area's. There is a huge internal conflict within islam in the UK between how I'd put it modernists and traditionalists and it's again another issue not being addressed so the battle lines are becoming more pronounced.

The two main friends I have that are Muslim don't go to their mosque anymore because of the element and both say they bought it to the attention of the imans to no avail simply told to follow the style of Islam that best suited them. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a community to help in eradicating an extremist element in their community especially if that element may end up mounting an attack. Perhaps we have become too tolerant and haven't forced the adaptation to our values and beliefs and now we and their community will suffer because of it.

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Hate crime has risen in the UK (apparently) 53% increase against muslims, why is that no surprise when people in France and Germany are being murdered on mass for no reason whatsoever.

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Also depends on what is considered a 'hate crime'

Re: Normandy siege
 

:tu:

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------

My shia receptionist once brought her (moderate) imams attention to one of their flock who had been expressing extremist views. He told her that "a brother doesn't inform on a brother" :(

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Yes exactly we were discussing Muslims but the exact type of wet liberal political correctness that has caused the rise of trump and farage couldn't possibly allow any criticism of Islam without bringing other religions into it, doesn't matter that vast swathes of Islamic government's execute homosexuals let's focus on Christians as well.

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this is the fundamental issue.

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In the past i have stood up for Islam and Muslims on principle but of late i have found my 'faith' that ,that is a correct assessment rocked quite severely .What i have noticed in the face of all the atrocities from this year alone is that all the 'peaceful' Muslims have done absolutely didley squat to showcase their religion as a peaceful religion .I have argued with countless posters about Islam being a peaceful religion but if the subscribers to that religion cannot show that then how the hell is anyone else from outside the religion supposed to tolerate it