Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

It was 51 during the war. Afterwards the call up was for those aged 17 to 21.

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

Don't worry, Guardian readers get an automatic exemption on the grounds of highly questionable judgement. :D


;)

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

Given Russia aren't going to retaliate against NATO by attacking Turkey directly, even though NATO should have expelled Turkey a while ago, guess who is going to bear the brunt of the retaliation, geniuses?

I doubt chanting 'Allahu Akbar' is going to do much against Russian bombs and rockets.

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

Has highly questionable judgement stopped them before then? :erm::D

---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:10 ----------

The commander of the Turkishmen is incredibly stupid. What if Turkey respond though?

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

If Turkey directly attack Russia, again, Russia can invoke article 51 of the UN Charter, just as France could have when attacked by IS.

Fact is, under the letter of the law, Turkey are the aggressor. Personally I find it astonishing that that nation is within NATO and being considered for the EU, however it can blackmail the EU and has key strategic considerations for NATO.

I strongly suspect Turkey will be told to pack it in. They arbitrarily decided they have a buffer zone 5km into Syria that they claim as their own airspace. They don't have the moral high ground in this one.

Perhaps if the CIA stopped using Turkey to funnel cash and small arms to rebels in Syria that'd help de-escalate things too?

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

Shot the pilots as they were parachuting to safety????? Yes well done lads.

To be honest they deserve what's inevitably coming to them. That's no better than the sort of thing IS get up to. You just do not do that.

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

Several Jobs ago I was in a "Protected occupation":D during the 2nd Gulf War.

---------- Post added at 17:55 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ----------

Personally Russia has been calling countries bluff one to many times.

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

According to ITN news the Russians also had a rescue helicopter downed in the aftermath.

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

Still struggling to see any compelling reasons to stay in EU, especially if Turkey get in and join the club too, Cameron & Co must be cringing at the euro timing of destruction given the referendum is around the corner.

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

The way things are going, Turkey being a NATO member might turn out to have consequences just as dramatic as them being an EU member.

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

Turkey caused the end of CENTO by invading Cyprus in 1974 (formed in 1955 by Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey, and the United Kingdom). It was dissolved officially in 1979 by the Iranian revolution.

They only managed to stay within NATO by the skin of their teeth 'cos the US wanted access to Incirlik airfield.

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

Russia insist they never entered Turkish airspace and gave a completely different flight path and crash site. The turks insist it did fly through Turkish airspace. Either way it's unfavourable for the turks even if it did cross, it worked out as a 17 second excursion if they followed the path the turks claim it did. Doesn't help it was shot down way outside of Turkey either.

The shooting was intentional obviously and I doubt even Turkey are dumb enough to shoot down a jet without it at the very least having strayed into Turkish airspace. It's still an overreaction that the Russian's will be all too happy to milk to their advantage. There's also the case of the co pilot having been killed by people shooting at him whilst parachuting. The Japanese know all too well about that kind of despicable act. I think that'll be the bigger problem for Turkey than just shooting the jet down.

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

I assume you mean that's the "bigger" problem? :scratch:

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

I've just checked and the b is right next to the n. so it was a genuine accident :)

Re: Russian fighter shot down by Turks
 

The Russians are not entirely blameless here. They have been warned on a number of occasions about airspace incursions. The excuse of "navigational error" does not cut it, even in a rickety old crate like an SU24 which still has modern avionics despite the age of the airframe.

Operating that close to the Turkish border, is a recipe for disaster considering primary radar is not entirely accurate.

Let's also not forget the nefarious practice of removing the standard vvs markings from Russian aircraft currently operating in Syria: there is no excuse nor justification for this. That aircraft could have been Syrian or Iranian after visual id for all those Turkish pilots knew not to mention the fact that the Russian pilots did not bother or weren't following the correct RT procedures.