Cable Forum - dead within TWO WEEKS

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Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Doesn't anyone actually read the reports?:mad::mad::mad:

The 2 weeks refers to the "scan" cycle. They look at the status in 2 weekly periods. At the start of the period they are receiving ESA and by the start of the next 2 week period they are not because they have died. In between those two dates, a "fit for work" decision has been made. That decision could have been made BEFORE they died, therefore any adverse decision COULDN'T have any effect. Even where they died after the decision was made, they may have yet to receive the letter telling them, again it COULDN'T have any effect. They ARE NOT claiming JSA and having to look for work at that stage.

ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE do the reports say the number of people that were claiming JSA and having to look for work at the time of death, but were found "fit for work" a few months earlier. Isn't that the sort of thing that people are looking for?

Quote:

Table 2.3 Total number of individuals who flowed off ESA whose date of death was at the same time(3) and of those the number with a WCA decision of “fit for work”, Great Britain: December 2011 to February 2014

Quote:

3. Date of death: The WPLS records all claimants and uses information from a series of regular scans from the benefit payment systems, fortnightly for ESA and six-weekly for IB/SDA. The claim end date is sometimes missing and has to be estimated as a date between the scans and to account for this we have identified those whose date of death is up to 14 days after the claim end date for ESA and up to 42 days for IB/SDA.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Presumably a large proportion of these 2380 people who died did so shortly after eating biscuits. Or humming along to a tune on the radio.

Where's the control group? How likely was an otherwise identical person (in terms of health, disability, income etc) who wasn't 'flowed off' ESA to die? If there is a correlation, how do you know that's causation and not co-incidence, or a random peak in the stats, or if there's some other factor interacting with both?

I despise IDS and his 'reforms' but this is junk churnalism at its worst.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

What cookie said. This data is rather meaningless without knowing more. People do die, that's what we all will do after all, and without meaning to be cruel we're looking at a group who are often in poor health.

Maybe if we compared it against previous data for people on these benefits and see what the numbers are before the reforms then we'll have a better idea. Realistically we should expect a minor drop between that data and what we have now (as medical science is improving - as is life expectancy).

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

7,540 died while being in the assessment phase and before a decision has been made. How can the DWP and ATOS be blamed for those?

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Death has become a part of Britain’s benefits system
More than 80 people a month are now dying after being declared ‘fit for work’. The safety net that used to be there for the most vulnerable is being torn to shreds

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ork-safety-net

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35795437)

Doesn't anyone actually read the reports?:mad::mad::mad:

Now you know better than to ask just the most basic of questions.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

As much as I hate ids this story is just a journo trying to manipulate statistics with no control

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

This is part of the reason ATOS has lost the contract. At one point 73% of decisions made by ATOS which were appealed got changed.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanbjames (Post 35795747)

This is part of the reason ATOS has lost the contract. At one point 73% of decisions made by ATOS which were appealed got changed.

They were still receiving ESA at the time of death. They were not claiming JSA and having to look for work etc.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanbjames (Post 35795747)

This is part of the reason ATOS has lost the contract. At one point 73% of decisions made by ATOS which were appealed got changed.

that's a high percentage but i suppose they just gave the government what it payed for ,the stress on these vulnerable people must have been terrible .

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35795750)

They were still receiving ESA at the time of death. They were not claiming JSA and having to look for work etc.

I never said they were claiming benefit, i simply stated percentage of over turned appeals from others.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanbjames (Post 35795747)

This is part of the reason ATOS has lost the contract. At one point 73% of decisions made by ATOS which were appealed got changed.

Might be interesting to know how many people never bothered to appeal as they were caught swinging the lead. Wouldn't be good to think all these people have suffered in vain.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35795769)

Might be interesting to know how many people never bothered to appeal as they were caught swinging the lead. Wouldn't be good to think all these people have suffered in vain.

i wonder what the dead to swindler ratio is 10:1- 20:1-100:1

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35795770)

i wonder what the dead to swindler ratio is 10:1- 20:1-100:1

Wasn't actually talking about the dead but the 73% in Alan's post, it's why I quoted him after all

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS

The UN is to visit the UK to investigate whether Iain Duncan Smith’s welfare reforms have caused “grave or systematic violations” of disabled peoples’ human rights, it has been reported.

A leading disability charity says that they have been contacted by the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities as part of an investigation into human rights abuses against disabled people in the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10478536.html