Cable Forum

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Virgin Media Internet Service (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   50M : cable thickness (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33701023)

qasdfdsaq 07-07-2015 14:06

Re: cable thickness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by horseman (Post 35787174)
Cable thickness is inversely proportional to the posters IQ... :p
73's and 88's ...

I use SSB Aircell 5, as well as LMR400. What does that say about my IQ?

Kymmy 07-07-2015 16:43

Re: cable thickness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35786122)

Aerial dipoles are not made thicker to increase bandwidth.[COLOR="Silver"]

[.

Not entirely true, the thickness of a transmission antenna can increase the resonant bandwidth so a thicker dipole might have more bandwidth than a thinner dipole but this bandwidth is in relation to forward and reflected power (otherwise known as SWR measurements).

This is though totally different to bandwidth of a carrier medium like co-axial cable of which he is getting mixed up with.

qasdfdsaq 07-07-2015 17:12

Re: cable thickness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35787212)
Not entirely true, the thickness of a transmission antenna can increase the resonant bandwidth so a thicker dipole might have more bandwidth than a thinner dipole but this bandwidth is in relation to forward and reflected power (otherwise known as SWR measurements).

This is though totally different to bandwidth of a carrier medium like co-axial cable of which he is getting mixed up with.

Ah, resonant bandwidth... I was thinking resonant frequency and baseband bandwidth.

Escapee 07-07-2015 19:51

Re: cable thickness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35787212)
Not entirely true, the thickness of a transmission antenna can increase the resonant bandwidth so a thicker dipole might have more bandwidth than a thinner dipole but this bandwidth is in relation to forward and reflected power (otherwise known as SWR measurements).

This is though totally different to bandwidth of a carrier medium like co-axial cable of which he is getting mixed up with.

Practicalities seem to be the biggest problem with thicker elements, it's not much of a problem for VHF or UHF but to make a large increase with for example a top band dipole would be impractical, hence the use of birdcage for HF. I did play around with a prototype VHF 30-90MHz Fractal antenna a few years ago, that had a nice wide bandwidth, reasonably good efficiency and low VSWR across the band, unfortunately the design wasn't mechanically practical for the intended application.


The biggest limitation on bandwidth with coax is generally the absorbing properties of the dielectric as frequency increases. The formula to calculate the loss at a particular frequency when provided with the actual loss at a lower frequency is generally logarithmic until this point is met, then it becomes very unpredictable. The use of a foam dielectric in cables such as LDF4-50a and LDF5-50a (There are more modern types and this shows my age) allows them to be used generally at a higher frequency than the PTFE dielectric types.

Uncle Peter 09-07-2015 22:40

Re: cable thickness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee (Post 35787247)
Practicalities seem to be the biggest problem with thicker elements, it's not much of a problem for VHF or UHF but to make a large increase with for example a top band dipole would be impractical, hence the use of birdcage for HF. I did play around with a prototype VHF 30-90MHz Fractal antenna a few years ago, that had a nice wide bandwidth, reasonably good efficiency and low VSWR across the band, unfortunately the design wasn't mechanically practical for the intended application.


The biggest limitation on bandwidth with coax is generally the absorbing properties of the dielectric as frequency increases. The formula to calculate the loss at a particular frequency when provided with the actual loss at a lower frequency is generally logarithmic until this point is met, then it becomes very unpredictable. The use of a foam dielectric in cables such as LDF4-50a and LDF5-50a (There are more modern types and this shows my age) allows them to be used generally at a higher frequency than the PTFE dielectric types.

Ecoflex 15 inparticular which has a gas rich dielectric compound is usable up to 6GHz and there's a more recent plus version which can run up to 8GHz.

I use it on my 2m and 70cm arrays which is probably a bit of overkill but it's mechanically very nice and flexible thus easier to route and work with than hardline :)

qasdfdsaq 10-07-2015 00:35

Re: cable thickness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter (Post 35787602)
Ecoflex 15 inparticular which has a gas rich dielectric compound is usable up to 6GHz and there's a more recent plus version which can run up to 8GHz.

Aircell 5 is 1/3rd as thick and rated to 10Ghz.

Uncle Peter 10-07-2015 01:52

Re: cable thickness
 
Aircell 5 is nice stuff for a short run. A bit lossy for my application as there's a pretty long run up the tower to the pre-amps so the Ecoflex 15 was the compromise between having something approaching heliax for attenuation characteristics but flexible enough to work with easily when doing installation and maintenance.

qasdfdsaq 10-07-2015 13:26

Re: cable thickness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter (Post 35787652)
Aircell 5 is nice stuff for a short run. A bit lossy for my application as there's a pretty long run up the tower to the pre-amps so the Ecoflex 15 was the compromise between having something approaching heliax for attenuation characteristics but flexible enough to work with easily when doing installation and maintenance.

Yeah, it's power handling isn't particularly high either but enough for short runs on 2-6Ghz microwave bands as you say. I have a reel of LMR400 as well. Not as good as Ecoflex but a bit cheaper but both are just too thick to run around a building without anybody noticing :p: (Bloody conservation area/listed buildings...)


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:33.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum