Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Yes it does, but not always enough to cover all your living costs no matter the arrangments - even sharing.

The issue here is that the scrapping of HB for 18-21 is for everyone of that age, not those who aren't

The coalition already scrapped that http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17139135

Nothing wrong with helping people as long as they are willing to help themselves.
Generally the youth of today want it all without putting any effort into it. (And no I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush just a large number of them)
They think it's big of them to sit back, smoke a bit of weed and then expect a handout every 2 weeks.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

You'll probably find it's actually a small number of them compared to those that do want to make a success of their own lives, just like it is throughout the rest of society.

However, this change to the rules won't care - it removes all support no matter the circumstances.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Ben, really, you should know by now that all today's youth are universally feckless wasters, whereas when posters in this thread were young everyone was working a 60 hour week for really low pay, living off rain water and mud and sleeping in sheds.

TLDR: Don't bother trying to explain modern reality to people who would've probably been entitled to cheap rent in some of the then-plentiful council housing before buying a house at 2.5 - 3.5 times a single income, and were likely in pretty secure jobs which actually had fixed hour contracts and didn't require a degree to earn a little below the average wage.

That the incomes of under-25s have dropped precipitously and will continue to is all their fault, nothing at all to do with outside factors.

---------- Post added at 15:24 ---------- Previous post was at 15:06 ----------

I think Sarah Wollaston has it spot on.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...arah-wollaston

I am increasingly concerned by what these changes are doing to the poorest.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...changes-report

There are way better ways of reducing the housing benefit bill than this.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Well we were. :p:

Not really, but as I recall there was nothing other than dole and you only got that if you'd already worked for a considerable period of time. Majority of my peers lived with their parents and saved up for their first step on the property ladder, often a run down terrace that needed everything done and mostly they did it themselves or from/with mates. Then teenage pregnancy was considered taboo rather than a passport into state paid for housing and benefits.

If employers could have got UK labour in the past then they would not have had to resort to so much migrant labour. That has made a magnet for further influxes resulting in a race to the bottom. The seeds were sown.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2.../housingpolicy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobseek...arlier_history

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I think ignition has it right.

Cons need to be careful, they're demonising huge swathes of the population because they're completely out of touch with Reality, politicians should be made to live in the real word for a bit, they might have more of a clue than those with a private education, ******** degree, perhaps a stint in the military - as an officer..., then back home to the 'family estate' doesn't bode well for the rest of us when it comes to being in touch with the every-man.

No I'm not a labour supporter, but I'm thoroughly disgusted by the 'reforms' done to the most vulnerable.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Our first house in London back in the 80's cost 4-5 times our combined salaries. Thinking back then, our first TV a 24" Hitachi cost almost £400 which was a lot more than I earned in a month. The only reason we could cope financially was because we bought a 2 up 2 down which needed everything doing to it and over the next few years I did nearly all of the work needed myself before we moved on.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

London is always going to a unique case in regards to house prices vs salary

I remember being able to just about afford a studio flat in Lewisham in 1998 on a full time salary of around £14k. Based on some the prices I've seen of rental prices in London today, that might not even get me a shared room.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

After I left the Forces, I lived in shared accommodation for nearly five years - I didn't expect someone else taxes to pay (in part) for a place of my own.

Expectations are higher now, perhaps.....

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Yes, but that was 1918, before the benefits kicked in. ;)

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

The main problem seems to be young people who are unemployed and living at home, who then suddenly decide to leave home with the taxpayer expected to pay the bill.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Relatively to incomes rents certainly are.

---------- Post added at 18:12 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------

Now it would likely be 10 times your income, and your mention of a TV at that price does away somewhat with the claims that today's kids throw money away while earlier generations were paragons of responsibility - the price of a TV then would now pay for a TV, an iPad, and a few months of mobile phone contract.

EDIT: There are actually records of the ancient Romans complaining about their feckless youth. It seems pretty churlish of us to pull up the rug on 18-20s, especially over such a small amount of money in the grand scheme. The hardship this will cause really isn't worth the saving.

Here's an idea for George and Dave to reduce the housing benefit bill across the board - follow pretty much everyone else in the developed world and take investment in housing off the books as far as national debt goes, liberalise planning with regards to greenbelt designations, allow housing associations to borrow more freely, and overall build some bloody houses. About 300,000 per year until the end of the decade should do for a start.

Appreciate this may reduce the third of Tory MPs who are landlords' rental yields, and may even harm the plan to keep people feeling a false wealth effect by keeping housing expensive, not to mention it'll make all kinds of people who think the government should be subsidising their house price sulk, but it'll certainly help with the housing, or more accurately landlord, benefit bill.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Does it? It was a wedding present from my wife's parents. Like I said, not only could we not have afforded it but I'd rather have had the cash to do the work I wanted to do.

Unlike many of the kids of today we had that same TV for many years, how often does the average youngster change their phone which is exactly what the big corps everyone whines about want them to do. We put virtually every penny we had spare into our house and have never regretted it.

Come to think of it, when we got married we hired the local scout hall for the reception and did all the catering ourselves for about £300 all in. The wife's wedding dress was handed down and the bridesmaids dresses were made by my sister. I wore a work suit. How many people want to do that today? Many would rather have the big event for a day and pay for it over years. Of course these things wouldn't make up for everything the younger generation have to put up with today but if people thought more about sacrificing some of the things we did, they'd be much closer to being able to get themselves on the ladder.

The truth is that things have changed and people today think nothing of having all sorts of memberships, contracts, subscriptions etc. coming out of their salaries for things we'd never have dreamed of then and for the most part they'd rather have now/pay later.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Right. So what does that say about every other age group up to the age of 54, all of whose home ownership rates have also fallen since 1992?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/01/3.jpg

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/01/1.png

I have actually just realised I posted those same graphs to you in another post along similar-ish lines, where you were supporting government cash being used to subsidise the wealthier, not poorer, retirees. Oddly the costs of that policy appear to outweigh the savings of this one but that's fine, right?

I hope for your sake that you have saved adequately for your own retirement and have enough for private healthcare throughout it, as given your willingness to shaft the 'feckless' young we may all find they collectively grow a pair and return the favour to us at some point.

Beyond that I've nothing more to say to you on the matter. There are of course feckless members of the younger generation but, as the Roman texts show, there always have been, and there is absolutely no reason to think this generation is worse than any other beyond the prejudice that members of every generation seem to hold towards the previous one. Sorry to say that your personal experience means nothing. The whole point of progress is to try and give our kids a better life than us, not complain about how feckless and hopeless they are and do what we can to drag them down to what was our level 20 years ago.

Maybe if we treated them better rather than telling them their exams are too easy, they're thick, they're lazy, etc, they would do better.

Maybe if we invest more in them we will all do better.