Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

Precisely. But that doesn't mean that as a society we shouldn't question the things that are done "all the time". Especially where life and well-being are concerned.

Personally I am deeply uncomfortable with the way that abortion has become just another contraceptive for some and a means of avoiding the inconvenience of a disabled child for others. The woman's right to choose seems to have entirely supplanted the child's right to life, and all on the basis of what you agree is an entirely arbitrary line drawn across the middle of their development in the womb.

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

Where have I heard this before, from the Nazi's, this is an outdated policy, if you cannot look after the child, then give it up for adoption!!!

For the moment they are conceived, I consider them a human and “real” person, so it is unfair to kill them at a time when they are very young. That would be murder!!! :mad: :td:

If it was legal to do this then Stevie Wonder would have been killed at birth!

If my one of my children was born disabled, I would not care; I would care and love that child!!!

Killing babies shortly after birth is 100% wrong and should remain illegal, hence I’m not keen on abortion (not on religious grounds)!!! :(

Also, why should a baby die because its parents are poor?

For once I am with Pro-Life groups!

Anyone that agrees with her should reconsider themselves!

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------

Along with mass murders, child abusers and wealthy people who have done wrong!

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

Excellent post Chris .A good example to use for the purposes of discussion is that of Downs Syndrome babies .It is permitted to abort Downs babies should the parents be aware of the disability but we all know that Downs babies can have a full and happy life ,indeed i believe some members on this forum have Downs babies.So what justification can there be for aborting one aside from the parents wish not to raise a disabled child ,which ,up to a point we allow but there is no scientific justification and very little moral justification to permitt it .If we are asking is there any justification to euthenise such children post birth then following the accepted logic applied to Downs babies then there is no reason why not apart from society's own moral outrage which isn't always logical but does set the rules

---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 ----------

Once again Alan you have totally failed to understand what is being discussed nobody is advocating this and nobody is suggesting ,even remotely,that it should be adopted as policy

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

As much as I dislike abortion, I don't consider aborting a foetus the same as killing a baby so my view stands. In an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary to abort anything but sadly we don't live in an ideal world and for all sorts of reasons it has been decided in the UK that abortion under strictly controlled circumstances is legal.

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

Nothing wrong with that point of view ,i would hazard a guess that most of society feels the same hence abortion laws

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

There should be more restrictions on abortion!

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

Please elucidate your position....

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

I meant that abortion should be discouraged as a so called form of "contraception"

Maybe it should also only be used in medical emergencies!

But I accept that many people will disagree

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

I agree the line where something becomes a 'person' is largely a moral question. There isn't a hard and clear line into when that happens but this has obviously always been the case and, as previously mentioned, the lack of clear lines is an issue elsewhere such as the age of consent.

I would say a person exists once they are born. At that point they exist in the world, we name them, we start counting their age, they see the world and they can breathe, pump blood, and perform the basics of life unaided. Obviously we can't start aborting just prior to birth and this is somewhat a matter of practicality. It really hard and I can see why people think life begins as conception, after all at that point you are dening what will become a person their life. Someone who would exist now will not.

I think abortion should be legal. It's not something which is good, I am not pro-abortion in the sense I like it. However it's safer and more realistic to have it performed legally by the health service and it can be the better alternative in some cases. We should always encourage contraception to avoid an abortion being needed.

Sorry if this post is a bit all over the place. Typing it in a nosy train on my iPad.

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

Would not agree with it one minute.

I actually dont agree with abortion on grounds of the baby will be born disabled even. Reason why my sister became pregnant for third time during pregnancy they can have test see if baby was developing correctly.

She was told the baby would be born with disabilty was advised to abort the pregnancy. Thankful she and her husband said if god wished her to be born disabled then it will be born so.

She caried the child to birth my sister's daughter now a woman of 23 she is NOT DISABLED and perfect thank good. It turns out the test is aint acurate its I think 70% acuracy rate. So how many parents scared of the situation aborted perfectly good baby. How many was told they was fine turned out disabled. Would love to see if stats are out there.

I believe we would hit very dangerous ground. Which would equate to that fabled hitler moto of the perfect race he craved for.

I doubt the idea would get much support thankfully

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

That is a very heart warming story! :angel:

I feel abortion on grounds of the baby will be born disabled is wrong as is killing it after birth!

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

thank you its joyous indeed now she has her own daughter who is 3 years old trouble;)

I remember the tears like yesterday the relief when she and husband came through told us all her baby was perfect baby girl. It only after time we questioned how could it happen. Why should joyious period of birth be put under such anxiety. To be faced with the biggest decision of your life to abort the pregnancy.

I cant remember what they said the disibilty was but it was not good think it was down syndrome or spina bifda level.

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

There are more than the two possibilities that you mention; for example, pregnancy following rape.

Anyway, I thought the reason David Steel championed his bill in 1966 was to get rid of "back street" abortions*. The challenge is to change the law without going back to the "bad old days".

* http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...society.health

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

Does the law need changing ?

Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
 

Isn't that the topic under discussion?

By the way, here is a link to the full scientific paper, in case anyone wants to read what was actually written before it was churned into a headline by a "journalist":

http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/201...11-100411.full