Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

In my opinion during any slaughter the animal will suffer whether it be by Halal,kosher ,electric stun before bleeding or captive bolt stun .In both the latter methods there is potential for the animal to still be conscious while the bleeding occurs ,the animals are certainly still alive so there is potential for just as as much suffering if not more as Halal or Kosher meat

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

It was a tiny proposing of fox's that were killed by hunting as opposed to other means but no balance was struck between animal welfare and the right to a traditional way of life.

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

Ridiculous comparison the 2 have nothing to do with each other whatsoever.
There has been a movement to ban Halal/Kosher slaughter in many countries for most of the last century .

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

I know they don't, however parallels can be drawn on the post I commented on

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

I can see where you're coming from, but there's a difference between a religious requirement regarding the sourcing of food and cultural traditions in getting rid of pests.

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

Link

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

I would disagree. Religious 'requirements' are nothing more than a cultural tradition just with extra vehemency and neither has any place influencing policies on animal welfare in modern society.

That's more indicative probably of my own distaste at religious beliefs being recognised in law in any way beyond the right to freely practice them.

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

I have to disagree, not surprisingly - but not in the way you think ;)

I feel the reason the majority of a lot of "anti-halal" people feel that way is due to it being connected with Islam. There are some who are so anti-anything-not-white-and-British that they'll suddenly champion the cause of 'humane animal treatment' just because "this is England (Britain) and we are a Christian country!!".

So in those circumstances you could say someone's (supposed, purely to be anti-halal as in other religious debate they lose all and any support for Christianity by saying things like 'religion should be banned') religion is playing a part in shaping government policy if more consideration is given to halal etc requirements.

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

I would suggest you aren't disagreeing with anything I said there - when I said religion has no place influencing I did mean just that - I didn't mention whether I was for or against a potential ban on halal meat, merely that religious beliefs have no business influencing policy on animal welfare, be they pro- of anti-halal, Muslim, Christian, Sikh, Hindu or Scientologist.

It should be purely about the welfare of the animal, assessed as scientifically and appropriately as possible with as much evidence as it's possible to collect.

The animal's welfare should never come secondary to either the amount of people holding a belief in a particular version of an imaginary friend nor how vehemently that belief is held.

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

I'm hoping that comes up in another (relevant) thread as I have a few ideas of where maybe yourself (and certainly a great deal of other atheists/anti-religionists/whatever) would be in favour of religion having an influence in society. But that would be wayyyy off topic so I'll save it for another day :)

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

Trust me. I'm no fan of religious beliefs. However, things being as they are, coupled with the fact that Halal and Kosher meat makes up a tiny proportion of the animals passing through abattoirs, I think an exemption could have been made.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Not sure what employment law has to with anything?

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

An influence in the roots of moral codes, which is actually quite a false influence as those codes would exist with or without religion as they simply make sense in a civilised society, and an influence in legislation are very, very, very different things. :)

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

I wasn't referring to moral codes. Patience, our day shall come ;)

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

Any backwards move in legislation for welfare, animal or human, is surely a bad thing? And after speaking with several independant butchers, the "tiny proportion" is getting bigger each day, with chickens, for instance, almost almost all being killed "the halal way" as it's cheaper.

My wife's home town in France used to have about 11 local butchers, with only one of them halal. Now they are ALL halal butchers despite the local population not having anyway near a muslim majority. The original butchers went out of business as meat prices rocketted, but it seems halal butchers have an easy form of credit to move in and buy up the busineses. And all the local restaurants and fast food outlets now serve ONLY halal meats (I wonder how they get halal ham and peperoni for their pizzas :confused: ). And now the 2 local supermarkets have halal sections, well distanced from the pork section of course. ASDA here does too, but only in muslim-heavy areas.

Re: UK and Europe-wide ban next please!
 

If any law/rule can be overridden on grounds of belief, then there is no valid reason for it to apply to everybody else. It would be too easy for people to declare a belief in something illegal or do the legal exceptions only apply to certain groups.