Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

Read the quote in the first post. She doesn't seem to be putting much effort in to pointing out that men are also the victims.

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

I read that thank you, but I can not see any problem with it. Don't you think that it should be a priority to reduce domestic violence?

The quote does not say that violence against men should be ignored, but as a further link pointed out, women are disproportionately victims of domestic violence. Are you sure that your objection to this isn't just because it is Harriet Harman who is saying this?

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

Partially, I just don't like the woman. She should be making a statement about all domestic abuse being unacceptable, rather than concentrating on just one side of it. People like her giving more publicity to that one side will only serve to increase the incorrect belief that domestic violence against men is not taken seriously - a belief shown by a survey by Men's Health to be one of the main reasons male victims don't come forward.

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

If anyone hasn't worked out why this won't work, i'll tell you.

Male domestic violence abusers broadly fit into two categories:

1. People that have uncontrollable rage. They know they shouldn't but once they are annoyed the red mist comes and lose control of their actions. Therefore telling them at 5 they shouldn't do it wouldn't be any use.

2. People that are just evil. They know they shouldn't do it but there brains are such badly-wired they don't care. Telling them at 5 they shouldn't do it wouldn't be of any use.

As for women, they know they shouldn't put up with domestic violence. They also know there are many organisations (of which many are female-specific) that can help. However the reasons they don't are often practicality such as kids, opportunity to get or emotional issues such as love or if they have been in long enough, they have become dependent on their abuser.

There has been several campaigns over the last couple of decades to get women to be more proactive in highlighting and fighting abuse. Reporting has risen dramatically and now almost plateaued. There are many domestic violence laws that have been enacted.

The cynic in me thinks this is just postering to appease the pink vote.

If anyone actually does care about domestic violence then its violence against males and LGBT that truly need help. Both are dramatically underreported and lacking in organisations to help.

One issue that particularly gauls me about domestic violence against men is that its considered funny or normal. i.e. A man asking a girl out getting a slap. Imagine the same happening in reverse? Its social attitudes like this which are causing women to believe they have the right to abuse men.

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

The singer Pink? In her videos she's often beating men up, same for the Sugababes - I don't hear Harman or her lot speaking out about that.

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

Basically we agree her quote should have said this instead:

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

Yes, excellently put :clap:

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

I think it's different in those cases. It's not implying beating men up is ok but rather breaking with the perceived norm (i.e Men are stronger than Women) to show empowerment. You'll find the men in those cases are probably strong, imposing figures. It would be more worrying if the men were in a corner sheltering while they attack them with bats or something. It's often shown in a more fun/sexual way..

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

In one of the Sugababes' videos, I think it's "Freak Like Me" it shows them beating up men in nightclubs. Is that the right way to show female empowerment?

Would it be morally right if a henpecked man or a guy who was the victim of abuse was depicted as punching a woman's lights out? If you're trying to imply that in these cases 2 wrongs make a right then I'd be surprised and a little disappointed.

There are other ways to represent female empowerment and violence is NOT one of them.

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

No. What I am suggesting is that the reason why it's objected to is not because it's Men beating up Women or Women beating up Men but that's it's the Strong beating up the Weak. The reason why it mostly manifests as Men beating up Women is because historically and cultural we perceive men as stronger than women.

In this videos the Men are strong, and the empowerment idea is that counter to the idea that Women are weak they are actually strong. The sides are matched, it's not the strong beating on the weak. These videos use a rather obvious way of expressing that

Really, it's not different to men vs men fights and so on. Look at movies/TV shows. It is much less offensive if a man and women are fighting if they are equally matched (James Bond films are an example). Of course in real life any form of violence is offensive.

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

Do you agree that showing women beating up men in these videos is the wrong way to represent female empowerment?

And do you agree it might encourage their more impressionable fans to think it's acceptable for women to hit men?

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

I am not sure if it's the correct way to show it, I honestly don't have an answer to that since I think female empowerment is not about physical attributes but should be about equal rights. However that is not a popular topic for music videos and not as visually dramatic. I certainly do not think it encourages domestic abuse.

I don't agree it makes a culture of it being acceptable to hit men anymore than the fights between James Bond and that women in Goldeneye encourages violence against women. The difference is if one side is portrayed to be a victim, and weak, while the other is dominant and strong. Even then it might be artistically justified if the actions are shown to be evil and not to be emulated (i.e domestic abuse storylines in dramas).

If in the video the men were shown to be victims and weak, then they hit them, and it glorified it, then yes I would object to that.

If they are shown be equal and fighting then it's no different in any other form of violence in the media. I think we are smart enough to separate reality from fiction.

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

On the assumption that you'd agree that a pop video showing men beating up women would cause outrage, can you see why there's a general feeling of one-sidedness in this?

Re: Domestic violence on the school curriculum?
 

Yes, That one sided, but that's because of a cultural perception. However what you said what be objectionable if the women was portrayed as a victim and it was glorified. If they were righting and it was equal it wouldn't be outrageous.