Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

IF post #14 is not relevant, and someone else has indeed used the same MAC address as the OP's ROUTER, this would not be a breach of any T&Cs. It's only cloning the MODEM MAC address which is 'naughty'. People can set their router or PC MAC address to whatever they like, and if there is a clash, it's just bad luck. (As per Toto's post above).

What WOULD be interesting, is what would tech support do/say if the OP's PC MAC clashed, rather than their router's?

(The OP has already stated that if he swaps the router and PC addresses, connecting the PC direct to the modem, he fails to get an IP address. This COULD be due to the issue in post #14, but if not, what WOULD support do/say? I think that is what the OP is asking, in case soeone else less 'techle' has the same issue).

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

if the OP's router mac address has been cloned, then that has absolutely nothing to do with Virgins T&C's only if some joker had cloned the Modems mac address would there be a breach of the T&C's, and the OP would get either intermittent or no service at all, as the other modem vied with his for connection.

As Moldova has said, the connection works when connected directly to the PC, so as far as the llimits of Virgins support scope goes all is fine.

Virgin cannot be held responsible for what happens with 3rd party equipment & people messing around & changing mac addresses on their equipment, or manufacturing errors causing multiple devices to be sent out with the same mac address. As happened on alot of XP machines when the generic drivers for the onboard nic were used instead of the manufacturers supplied drivers.
There was a list of affected Mac addresses kicking around the knowledgebase, before the dark times,... before the Merger.

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

... and as the OP has said, if he gives his PC his router's MAC address, the connection does NOT work. Until we hear whether post #14 is relevant, it not worth too much discussion, but if it IS a clash, the the OP would surely be entitled to support under the scope?

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

It's unusual for a router MAC to be duplicated, whereas it's a lot more common with PC MACs for the reasons Tech_Boy said.

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

DHCP expects and requires all clients on the same network segment to have unique MAC addresses.

That said I do wonder if that is actually the fault here, but not going to speculate too much :)

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

...except that I suspect a lot of people still clone the PC MAC into the modem either a) because they are used to this from the 'old days' or b) to avoid the 'power down', 'wait' 'power up' issue every time they switch from router to a direct connection (eg when calling 'support').

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

I understand perfectly what Moldova is saying, and I even agree for the most part. However, I have *proved* their DHCP service is at fault. Look at the alternative scenario of the PCs MAC address being cloned - it's perfectly feasible. As I've said before, if i plug my modem into my PC at this moment, it will not work. What I'm trying to show here is that VMs policy of just ignoring this is short-sighted and not in the interests of any of their consumers. Their DHCP service has a problem, or someone has cloned my MAC address - either way 'go away' is in nobody's interest but theirs.

and what if someone clones my PC's MAC address? where would this go then? The other thing i'm trying to show is a limitation in their diagnostic process. If it happened to me, it can happen to anyone. does anyone out there know what VMs diagnosis would be had my PCs MAC address been cloned?

All DHCP servers care, as that is how they track address assignment. Also, it is possible to manage static IP addresses via DHCP, by allocating the desired address to the user's MAC address.

Their DHCP server must have it - that's how, if you turn the device that gets the IP address off (be it PC or router), it will often get the same one back. Mine didn't change for about a year. Funnily enough, it did change whilst I was away. some co-incidence? unlikely.

Any network monitoring tool will allow you to find MAC addresses, as long as it can capture data in the same layer 2 domain as the source. The MAC address is used at layer 2 as the destination for the frame, so if that information must be available. I am the first to admit that my knowledge of cable networks is limited (OK, non-existent :-)), but at layer 3 and above, they all work the same way. I'd be stunned if VM cannot capture all the traffic that my modem passes.

This isn't a rant, BTW - it's not even really a complaint, I'm just trying to show them where they have challenges. Last time I wrote to them, they actually listened and took notice. I need all the facts first before I can do that again, but for some reason, they don't want to give me them.

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

I suppose if you really want to get to the bottem of this, change the mac address of the pc to the mac address of your router and phone up Virgin telling them that your broadband is not working.

JJ

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

Client MAC address information is available to certain VM staff, not all, BenMcr is an example of an agent who can't see this. Probably more second line and technical/security investigations.

The problem is the info is fairly useless to them to the most extent, as client premise equipment registration via MAC address is not required on the VM network, and therefore makes diagnostics tricky in that when a customer changes their cpe address, or cpe all together, it is only seen by virtue of a change of MAC address.

It seems to have worked fine though for the legacy networks in the past, they obviously feel it is not important to have another layer in the modem registration system by forcing the end user to register their computer/network MAC address.

So for some reason your old router address no longer works...have you considered that your area has had a network change such as a service re-segmentation, and that while you were away somebody on a different CMTS with a matching client MAC address was also moved onto the new service with you, and they got an IP address and now you can't?

The diagnostics are there though, perhaps you should push a bit harder, mybe get an escalation to second line - they have the toolsets.

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

not sure I'd agree there - their act (again, assuming it was something that a person did) constituted a denial of service attack against me, and I'm certain Ts&Cs don't permit that.

I don't hold them responsible, but I do expect them to deal with it professionally, and deal with the responsible person appropriately, not just tell me to go away.

I hope VM have a method of stopping multiple DHCP offers being sent out to the same consumer.

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

No disrespect here, you can't honestly call this denial of service against you?

How the hell could VM justify going to a customer, who changes his client MAC address, or maybe used a piece of router kit that has the same MAC address as yours, and say they are performing a denial of service against another user, that's an extremely poor interpretation of VM's AUP, and I don't think even their abuse team could make that one fly.

Sure, if an individual user was excessively changing their MAC address, or their equipment was failing to accept an IP assignment to the point that the leases were being use up - given that a DHCP system only has X number of IP assignments, then yes, that would certainly need investigating.

Stick to the point, you're obviously miffed, perhaps because you have lost an IP address you've had for a long time, but that is no reason for these incredible accusations.

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

Holly rambling batman, a 1st line agents nightmare.

So the 1st line agent contacts 2nd line and:

sh cab mode xxxx.xxxx.xxxx your device MAC .Second line and security have access to the CMTSes & OSRs'
and the device MAC shows to be on cable 4/1 us0
and cable 5/0 us1 so clearly a clone MAC, DHCP will only offer a IP address to one of the devices.
What do you want VM or the CSR to do, call the other customer and ask them to change their physical address?

And yes VM have a way to stop multiple offers, if its DHCP hammering the modem MAC is put into REGCANC, if it multiple instances of devices being plugged into (read MACs changed) then max_CPE in the config for the CMTS takes care of that, this is usually 4.

-xo|Edit
Its not often I agree with Moldova though in this case he's spot on.
In fact, wheres that rep button?

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

Exactly!

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

If I'd realised before I called them, i'd do just that.

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

erm, yes actually. If it is a genuine clone, fine, one of us gets to buy a new router (or live with it in other ways). if they changed it, tell them to change it back to whatever it was before or terminate their service. Why should I, a 15-year loyal customer, have my service denied by someone else and then be told it's down to me to pay to fix it?

Good. That would have been a superb DoS attack vector.

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

Yes, I tried that before I called. Well, I listened to the message telling me I should do it and I thought 'lets do it' for a change :-)

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

Not deliberate, no, but my service has been denied by another individual. I should repeat that this is all conjecture as we don't know all the facts. DoS does not have to be intentional.

You don't? why? The clue is in the name - Denial of Service. my service has been denied. I did promise to myself I would not let this turn into a rant or a flame war, and I will stick to that.

Not sure I've accused any individual of anything - apologies if I have. As I have said repeatedly throughout this, I don;t know the facts amd VM aren't interested in giving them to me.

Losing the IP is not a problem, that's what I have dynamic DNS for. Not miffed at all (at least not that I noticed), just disappointed that VM don't seem to want to improve their service.

I'll ask you the same question. What would you expect VM support to do if it had been your PCs MAC that had been duplicated, preventing you from getting an IP address?

Funny how nobody has actually answered that question yet. Maybe they don't like the answer.

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
 

I and many agents use tools along the lines of Coffer.com into which we put the learned MAC address from the modem, then we click search and it tells us the manufacturers name, so cloning a router MAC address onto your PC's network card will flag up as a router in most cases, give it a try.;)