Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

Hindsight eh? Wonderful isn't it?

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

All things considered and given the amount of gun crime the police have to deal with these days, I'd say their record is pretty good. Yes, any fatality of or serious injury to an innocent person is a tragedy but the police will never be perfect and sadly that's a price some poor people will inevitably pay for the society we now live in.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

Seems it was a barrister who flipped. :dozey:

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

There are mixed reports that he was also a war veteran so probably PTSD played a factor if its true.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

Yep thats what happens when you have a gun fight with armed police and try to kill them.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3890115.ece

Looks like this guy may have been a vicitm of the sort of family breakdown he and his wife specialised in professionally.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

Didn't take too long.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...men/article.do

Yep. Getting hit by a shotgun, that wouldn't be lethal. Might tickle a bit. :rolleyes:

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

There will always be those that think the rights of the offender out way the rights of the Victims. The man was shooting at people, I would expect the police to take the action required and if that means dropping him with a bullet so be it.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

Whilst you're undoubtedly correct, I think you might cut the man a bit of slack seeing as how he's just lost his son in pretty tragic circumstances. I don't expect he's thinking particularly clearly at the moment.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

I'm sure he wasn't, but I'm sure the police weren't thinking about that at the time, just stopping him before he shot someone.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

I agree entirely, but a quote from the man's father isn't really evidence of a backlash against the police, or putting the rights of offenders above victims. I means, he's bound to be pretty upset and looking for someone to blame isn't he? You can't really expect him to come out and say yes the police did an excellent job, they had no choice.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

Exactly, especially when you consider the alternative is to realise that his son was in such a state that he did pose a threat and did need to be stopped, which must be an awful thing for any parent to come to terms with, and I'd say pretty impossible to do just after they've lost their son.
Imagine it, you're a parent, your job no matter how old your children are is to be there, look after and protect them, and your son gets into a state where he has to be killed. You weren't able to protect him, that on top of losing him must be so heart wrenching, words can't describe it.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

I don't see that he got into a state where he had to be killed, or that anyone can ever get into such a state. The decision was taken to kill him - he was shot five times, hitting his brain, heart, liver, and a major blood vessel. Kind of puts Annie Oakley to shame. We'll now never know his state of mind or the events that led to his actions.

What worries me is that everyone finds it perfectly acceptable :erm:

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

one shot one kill only works in the movies.
the ARU's role is to stop the person who is threatening their lives and the lives of the public.
You can't even say he was shot in the places which have been reported as damaged because once a bullet enters a body it can go anywhere.

There was a man with a shot gun shooting at the police and other houses, who didn't respond to the negotiators.
The only option the police have in that situation is to stop the person by shooting them.

Now, I don't know if you're saying they should have just left him to merrily carry on shooting out of his windows at whatever he liked, or maybe you just just think 5 shots was excessive, in which case, why do you think it's excessive?
There was a 7 year old girl in the US not that long ago who was shot 7 times in the head with a 9mm gun from a foot or two away and survived.
A friend of mine accidently shot herself in the head and thankfully got away with just a nasty scar along her hairline, a rather freaked out daughter, and a very appologetic soon-to-be ex-husband as it was one of his hot empty cases that went down the back of her neck just at the wrong moment.