Russ, the crux of my point IS Revolution 19:2...

Religious leaders, claiming to be an avatar of God's will sanction violence in his name.

The failing of religion is not the belief system itself, it is human nature. This is and always has been the failing of organised religion.

Yes that's what Rev 19:2 alludes to but much could be the same about football. Do you really think that the idiots you see trashing cities where England play are genuine supporters? No! They are just using football as the excuse.

I also want to add my support to the idea of NOT having organised religion btw....

a more fitting quote about the belief system comes not from the bible, but from William Shakespeare's Hamlet..

"this above all, to thine own self be true"

and my final point on the issue..

"Nearly every war the world has ever had has been over religion".

I suppose it is ok for those that need a crutch to lean on..

Sorry but that's just wrong. There has NEVER been a war over religion. What there HAS been, is plenty of wars using religion as the catalyst. If they didn't use that as the excuse then they would only have found something else to fight over.

What ever way it is put, it amounts to the same thing, one trying to impose their will on others......instead of sitting back and thinking first..

I always feel sorry for Russ in these type of threads, I know he can hadle himself, but it looks like picking sometimes, lucky Russ is a good natured guy.

So thought I'd join in the picking:D

Religion is no longer needed, I admire true christians (or any other religion for that matter) that do what is expected of them by their faith. I hate the Catholics that go to church for mid night mass and never think about god until next year.

It all creates more problems than it solves, and is often something for someone to hold onto that their loved ones are being looked when they have left them.

You can only say that if you hold that religion is essentially an invention of humans.

What if religion, or, from my point of view, Christianity, is not an invention of people but handed to us by God? How is it then merely one person trying to impose his will on someone else?

If it's from God, is it not reasonable for people to want to tell other people about it?

And as regards thinking first, plenty of Christians, including me, thought for a very long time before getting involved. There was a time when I was completely against religion of any kind. After a great deal of thought, reading and talking to other people, I am a committed Christian, and a Christian who believes the message is well worth sharing (I say sharing, not imposing - anyone who tries to impose Christianity has missed the point).

Actually imback, my comments were about ORGANISED religion, not simply religion in general.

If you have your beliefs, and also follow the Hamlet idiom of "This above all, to thine own self be true" then you have a basis in your belief system that cannot be strengthened by organised religion.

It is only when organisation comes into the equation that you end up with the ideals and beliefs you hold dear being corrupted.

Ok, but you do realise that what I said wasn't in any way aimed at or in response to what you said?

It was just my 2 pence worth.

agreed, and I wasn't flaming you, I was just explaining my point a little more is all :)

Cool

As Russ has said, this is not true. People would still fight wars even without religion.

Anti Religious people have been known to do that as well..

Very true, some of the worst Marxist tyrants of the 20th century had no religious motive, but that didn't stop them making tens of thousands of people 'disappear'.

How did we get to here from the Bish of Reading?!