Re: what to do ?
 

unfortunately, a post designed to help him vanished...

Re: what to do ?
 

Its nothing to do with that, its your attempt to belittle Sociable when he's trying to help.

Re: what to do ?
 

i'm not sulking really plummer :)

Re: what to do ?
 

I'm sorry but I didn't see one part of your post where it could of helped.

Re: what to do ?
 

Belittle? I'm guessing it never occurred to you that not everyone shares your persecution complex, anyway, this is not the thread for it, if you want to carry on being offensive, feel free to PM me so I can ignore it :)

Re: what to do ?
 

Telling a depressed person to snap out of it is not the truth to the matter.

Re: what to do ?
 

Who's to say though, for some people that sort of 'help' does work, and works very well. I've been through councelling, various sorts of antidepressants and sedatives, people smothering me in sympathy telling me it's not my fault and eventually (despite my shock at her saying some of the things she said) I realised that she was actually right, and most of it was brought on by myself, people don't need sympathy, they need understanding and they need professional help but if they're unwilling to actually seek said help then you're backing a 3 legged mule.

Re: what to do ?
 

no, cos the only way people think you can help him is by pussyfooting around the problem, instead of directly telling him what he can do about it

Re: what to do ?
 

just a minute , you said he is a best friend , yes ???????? , so you have tried the direct beat him around the head approach ????????? , did it work then ??????????

Re: what to do ?
 

When people are clinically depressed they support rather than confrontation. There is no benefit in telling someone who is clinically depressed that they are stupid, its all their fault and they should do this and this.

Most people gave good advice, to visit the doctor, and were supportive at the same time.

Re: what to do ?
 

paul, this is the first attempt at it. we try small doses of it but he goes off on one and it's hard to take him seriously when he's trying to be threatening.
it's hard to tell how he reponded to this for several reasons
1. he hasn't seen it yet
2. it isn't here now :)

Re: what to do ?
 

fair play my mate , at least you answer sensibly :tu:

Re: what to do ?
 

how can you give good advice when he hid important facts from you nor?

Re: what to do ?
 

i thought this would be the best place for him not to avoid it paul
:tu:

Re: what to do ?
 

And his reponse was that he didn't want to see a doctor. Bug Infestation say's he see's him every day, how do you know that he HASN'T tried the softly softly approach already (and got nowhere)?

Re: what to do ?
 

OK let's look at the evidence so far.

You claim to be his friend and presumably have been offering your "help" for some time now and just look at the result.

Doctors can and do help by providing medication that can (in some situations) help the person to cope with the painful process of dealing with the problems they face. But they would be the first to say this is only a small part of the solution as without treating the cause rather than just the symptom its a bit like treating a hole in the heart with a plaster.

It is not unusual though for individuals to need some help just to get to the point of being able to seek help let alone actually get to a doctors office.

I know you feel you are just trying to help but trust me this time you are playing with someones life and for all your good intentions are probaly doing more harm than good because of your lack of maturity and understanding.

Please be a friend to Kronas and put your own ego away for a while.

Re: what to do ?
 

True I guess I don't know the full story. But he's said hes clinically depressed and the best advice you can give, regardless of other factors that we don't know about, is to goto the doctors and let them help.

Thing is, when you are depressed, you aren't rational. The way you think isn't how you'd normally think. People telling you to be rational and do this and this and that you brought it upon yourself isn't going to do any good. What you need is to sort out the chemical imbalance in the brain first and then you can actually start to deal with all the causes that led you there in the first place.

[edit] I actually feel a little off posting this here though, doesn't seem right to be discussing it all out in the open like this.

Re: what to do ?
 

Can The admins close the thread for a few nor is right this is not going to be helping anyone let alone Kronas.

Re: what to do ?
 

You want to try and be in kronas shoes.

I have been in a suicide state of mind, I have been down that 'road' because a few years ago I lost my grandma's in a space of 18 months, a month later a friend & colleague died so no matter where I went for period of months I was surrounded by death at work and at home. Should I of snapped out of it at the time? No, I couldn't. You cannot just snap out of it when you feel like it and I had the same sort of attitudes like you who have said Come on, Michael, you got your life ahead of you. Michael, your not looking very tidy today, you badly need a shave, you were wearing that shirt yesterday and the day before, you need to get your act together... All them comments did not help me infact made me worse, the only thing that helped was learning to accept my problems and learning to deal with them and by also talking to the people that mattered to me. It takes along time and progress should be made at the pace of the depressed person and certainly not yours.

Re: what to do ?
 

spot on the mark i reckon , and it takes guts to post summat like that :tu:

Re: what to do ?
 

It sure does so thanks for that contribution Dr P a voice of reason as always.

You are so correct about the pace of the healing process. Suicide is all about people who feel they have run out of options and pushing them into a time corner only serves to reduce yet further the options open to them.

Re: what to do ?
 

Uh Oh ........ Bexy's back, I've seen her lurking :D

The bad boys better beware :D .... :rofl:

Kronas, please post ..... something .... anything ..... please :wavey:

Re: what to do ?
 

and i will second that , where are you kronie ?????????????? :D :D :D :D

Re: what to do ?
 

Or PM one of us if that is easier.

We are just wanting to know you are OK that's all no pressure to talk.

Re: what to do ?
 

:rofl: you're not scared of me are you paul? or do you just think i am an opinonated madam ;)

well what can i say about today's posts? sometimes it does take someone giving you a swift kick up the backside and making you 'snap' out of the mood you are in, personally i think that this only works when the person is beginning to go down that horrid spiral of depression/feeling down...at this point it is possible to make them realise that how they are feeling is irrational.... i have had people do this to me a lot.... however i feel that once a person has begun to gfet serverly depressed and has considered suicide (not just as a fleeting thought but seriously thought about it) then it is not the best tactic to try and use.... bug i see your point and it may seem that we are "pussy footing" around kronie, but what we have really been trying to do is get him to seek help, to open up to someone, maybe a member of the forum, a friend, a family member or a professional..... maybe we are wrapping him up in cotton wool a bit, but that is because we care about the lad... we are worried for his state of mind, and in my eyes we are being his friends....

i understand that you may know the suituations which are happening in his life a bit better than we do, however has he told you what is going through his mind? it is not the situations that necessarily effect us but the thoughts and the mentality behind them.....think about it, you may not agree with me, and i accept that...and if you want to discuss that then please feel free to pm me and i will reply....

secondly, i want to give dr p a big :ghugs: and :kiss: you have obviously been through a tough time...currently i am going through a pretty rough patch with certain things, and one day i may open up more to those of the forum (although some will get the gist of it from my blogs) but i don't feel i want to at this time be open about it on the public forum......

anyway was a bit of an essay from me there......i've been at work all day and have just been catching up with this thread.....

Re: what to do ?
 

absolutely ..... pllleeeeeeaaaassssseeeee

Re: what to do ?
 

oi shut it you :P

was posting my mamouth essay type post so :p

Re: what to do ?
 

*/runs away and hides from Bad Bexy /*

Re: what to do ?
 

bexy is a very nice girl :cry: (must be read in ze french accent :naughty: )

Re: what to do ?
 

Bexy...why have you got 1 Cor: 13 as your sig?

Re: what to do ?
 

me scared of you , uhhhhhhhhhhh yes absoloutly bloody terrified :D :D :D :D , having said that , top post i reckon :tu:

Re: what to do ?
 

thanks for the compliment and i'm a pussy cat really :ghugs:

ramrod well done, thought it would take people longer to realise...why do i have that as my sig? well for certain personal reasons and well i can't escape the fact that i am a christian :D

Re: what to do ?
 

y would you want to bex,stand up and be counted

Re: what to do ?
 

is this it?

6 Rejoice not in iniquity, but rejoice in the truth;

7 Bear all things, believe all things, hope all things, endure all things.

8 Charity never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


It is a brilliant passage, perhaps the 'best in the bible', if there is such a thing. "But then shall I know even as also I am known" is particularly evocative:)

Re: what to do ?
 

sorry for this late reply i have been away, trying to do stuff rather then sit around moping

i would like to address something here and the thing is the art of your freinds turning your back on you giving you 'advice', as they call it or perhaps spreading around something that was personal ?

yes i opened up to a so called freind who in turn notified 'bug infestation', of my problem now i dont know what the original contents of the modded post were (if anyone does feel free to pm me excludes bug)

but you have fallen in to the hands of the UDT of other boards

now i know who my freinds really are so everyone who is physically my freind ie offline will now be shut out because as i said in my post towards the begining i cannot trust ANYONE

my point has been proved

im feeling better then i have been previously and i hope i can be back to normal soon

Re: what to do ?
 

Undisputedtruth, yes, he's a right charmer.

Re: what to do ?
 

Good to see you posting kronas don't be a stranger your friends here worry when we don't hear from you OK.

As for the "missing" post I wouldn't worry it was gone before most people saw it and was on no importance anyway. Now is the time to look forward not back so hang in there and everything will be back on track before you know it.

Re: what to do ?
 

Thats good to hear Kronas that you are getting things sorted and coming back. I hope the new year brings you the chance to continue and find happiness.

Don't be a stranger or we will worry about you.

Happy Christmas and I hope the new year brings you plenty of joy.

Re: what to do ?
 

good to see you back man , but you still never took my offer up did you :( :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: what to do ?
 

kronie, unfortunately finding out who your friends are happens to us all at some point, we put our trust in people and at times they stab us in the back, but try not to let it affect you too much, because you do have people around you who care and who miss ya.....see lok how many poeple who have commented it is good to have you back?

bexy is going to stop waffling and find somewhere else to post

edit: gaz (think it was you who asked) it is the passage which talks about love...love is kind, love is patient, love isn't self seeking, etc etc

Re: what to do ?
 

i am strange you dont know the half of it :rofl: :wavey:

i have added you to my MSN i expect you to pass your number on to me and let the shouting commence :D



thank you, and thank you all for your kind words and comments its nice to see some people are actually caring :)



i know what you mean have sorted 2 of them out already just need to sort the other out.........

i hope to back to normal ASAP slowly but surely i hope i can recover

Re: what to do ?
 

top man , nice to have you back amongst us :tu:

Re: what to do ?
 

I've not posted thus far because I really don't feel qualified to proffer advice.

It is my firm belief that you need to talk to someone who has been professionally trained.
I can understand if you don't want to talk to your GP but there are councilors who can offer a much better ear because that's what they are trained to do(something that not all doctors can achieve)and maybe just talking about a problem makes it seem much more managable.After all you do seem to be much happier when you have unburdened yourself here from time to time.It has to be much better to talk to someone who has been trained to really listen and not to talk at you (which is what you will get to a certain extent from the untrained but well meaning amateur).

Please consider going back to the college and asking to talk to the councilor there or ask if they can refer you to another trained councilor if you feel you can't face your GP.

My daughter has had her problems at uni and at a certain point was self harming.She couldn't talk to me but did,when I suggested it go and see the university councilor.It has helped her enormously and I no longer feel as concerned as I once did.The fact that she was seeing a councilor also ensured that she had an automatic place in halls of residence in her second year and that she was able to get a hardship grant this year when she need a financial boost.

I feel very strongly that this is your best option under the circumstances.I'm sure that if you check around you will find some help also from a local drop in centre for young people of your age.
Try to do something about it though because there is so much for you to look forward to despite that at the moment it might not seem like it.

Incog. :tu:

Re: what to do ?
 

so life continues i am greatful to everyone here who has commented and gave me food for thought on my feelings, suicidal somewhat...... which are fully confused at the moment, by confused i mean emotionally i am totally out of my head would be the best way to put it.

its not that i dont care about anyone else, or that i dont like my freinds or dont give a damn about there advice on this forum, its just i struggle to show emotion at all im just like hmmm....and continue to stare i suppose its somewhat gradually stuck on to me over the past few months.

i know some have said i need to get proffesional help, but im not fond of doing it, simply because i have lost faith in anyone really to do with the 'help' secter, that includes doctors counsillers along those lines.

i am trying to keep myself occupied going out (being dul)l but trying to do something to keep my mind off doing something stupid...

at times its increasingly difficult, my sleep pattern is wayword just gone 30
hours without sleep, but i eventually got to sleep

sometimes i can be happy other times i just feel like hiting someone, other times i just feel like hiding

strange i know...........

earlier today i had one of my freinds whos a churchy recommended i turn to god the second time since i told him my problem he has said that, and i didnt even respond those of you who know me know i would have 'kicked off'

i guess thats another freindship to end, i have repeatidly told the person previously to let me live my life, and stop the imposing on me of religion

if i can actually show an angry emotion :shrug:

but i move along somehow...........

i hope everyone had a great christmas got loads of pressies and turkey

Re: what to do ?
 

at the bit about not liking professional help , have you got one really trusted friend that you could take somewhere and see someone , just a thought :)

Re: what to do ?
 

babes noone likes to get 'professional' help but sometimes it is the only way to get out of the bottomless pit...... it is something to think about anyway :D

Re: what to do ?
 

ok the new year is around us 2004, i hope everyone has a prosperous year this year. (those who deserve it)

im feeling better then i have been since i started this thread, but i have my days all too regularly. :(

i sit down and i think why am i so unhappy...... i have great parents, i have some great freinds, i mean you people on here, who have talked to me as well as posted on here, for which i very much appreciate you dont know how much...

i try and delve deeper in to my thoughts and this is what i see.......

the build up of negativity centered around the inability to achieve something in life, due to the past and present, one must say how can a person achieve nothing in his life ?

by nothing i mean life in general i dont mean people who have helped me on here, and tryed to give me good advice, i guess im lucky (for once) to have people like this.......

the way i have interpreted my life as it has progressed, is one with deep disatisfaction, not so much as regretting what i have done, (most of it was really out of my hands) but i thought i could show something, i mean something that would provide me with some hope that i have a future in society, i can help people as i still do offline if i am asked on various things............

at the moment im in a 'self destruct' like sequence almost, isolating myself from people the freinds who i have left........

i know what people say get counseling etc, but i really dont trust proffesionals anymore, they tend to go in to things to deep in to your family, freinds, the first mention of suicide will trigger them in to thinking there is something wrong mentally as most proberbly do.

i dont mean to offend genuine people who help in those professions, such as those but it does happen.......

but it really is getting worse in some situations, i go 30+ hours without sleeping at a time, my eating seems to have deteriorated in to a worse state.

i dont really care about life anymore on the whole, i dont really watch tv, what little tv i watched is of no interest, i dont feel like talking to anyone verbally.

if i do i dont really have much to say, even to counter something, which i feel is wrong, you could say i dont 'give a damn about anything' anymore, i mean no offense to people who have helped me but im just saying what i feel.

Re: what to do ?
 

Give me a call Kronas you have my number OK

I think I may be able to explain a few things about how you can get past some of the current issues and also explain how they are connected with the past ones in a way that may help you resolve enough of them to move forward.

Re: what to do ?
 

It could just be the time of year. My wife is pretty 'down' atm as well (in fact, if she hadn't married me she would be living in Australia now-poor woman, never mind :D ). Lack of sunshine and grey skies(and marrying me :D ) can do that to you. You could have 'seasonal affective disorder'.....known by its acronym -'SAD' :rolleyes:
(don't the scandinavian countries like Finland have the highest rates of depression/suicide in the world because of it?)

you know........
 

you sit down, you watch what people do, what people say, and you think hmm.... do i belong here ? more specifically do i know who my freinds are ? i suppose you could say no one does, backstabbing, twofaced idiocy, its all there in colour around me, and then the ever present self addicted intolerance towards yourself creaps along..........in words that proberbly would mean temp banning.........ah there is that.... also the hatred towards onesself, suppose i shouldnt complain about what happens around me, or what my problems are......but hey all i can do is sit back relax and laugh about it, so what if you cant get a job, so what if you cant get a girl, so what if you never make anything of yourself, so what if your all alone in the end ?.............i suppose there are always people worse then me, i shouldnt complain, i really dont, things get on top you, you want to self destruct but that bears no frutation, because in the end its back to square one for me........

so anyhoo i welcome your comments about any annoyances.....yeh the avril stuff i know, ill tone it down to a simmering level.........it gets pathetic for me even, oops i am pathetic.........

well there you have it... all i can do now is laugh :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: you know........
 

Have you been taking something ..... :erm:

;)

Re: you know........
 

I'm not really sure what to read into your post, but I don't think your currently firing on all cylinders. That's a shame since last weekend your were clearly buzzng with excitment haveing seen your idol in close quarters.

Yes you belong here, and you know you will get some level of response to posts, especially about her, if only because some delight in taking the michael (including me - but I hope you recognise that that is usually done by most posters with some levity).

I can only suggest that you get away from it all if you can. The computer and particularly forums may seem like your point of sanity, but is it?. Summer is coming. Get out there and enjoy it.

Re: you know........
 

I think he has taken a small step back in life and is analysing his feelings.

We all do it. Who are we? What are we? What's it all about?

We look to our peers - what others are doing - we make comparisons.

Different moods affect our analysis.


I don't know you, Kronas - but such as I have seen of your input on here, you have a lot to offer. Tomorrow is another day mate - sleep on it.

Re: you know........
 

Sorry if i appear blunt here.

Same old **** again.

If your feeling down again try reading this thread found here

Plenty of top advice there.

;)

Re: you know........
 

I'm sure you've heard the expression 'Be careful what you wish for - you just may get it' - this post falls squarely in that catagory.

I'm sure you don't really WANT people to be %100 honest about you.

Having said that - since you asked - I've already said what I think, and -despite your opinions to the contrary- well over %90 of your posts in the last few months have more or less proved my opinion (and i note that at least one other person has picked up on it in a post too). But unless you see it in yourself then you won't understand this.

At the same time - I don't see it as a problem - or you as annoying. So I wouldn't worry about annoying other people - just keep doing what you are doing and chill out.

Re: [merged] what to do (etc .....)
 

and that is ?

"you have a lot to offer" i dont know what that is, being useful ?


you pretty much summed it up in the previous points you made (which i ommited because of a long post but are still commented on)

yes you could say i was, you saw a marked improvement, noticed it myself, i even became so sociable like my realself with others (offline) in terms of i actually talked about aspects that concerned me about others, even though it caused a distancing on freindship........it made me feel better.....

and you have to admit, its quite sad the way im fanatical about someone who i dont know, but appreciate lyrical and vocal talents, even so its borderline on being 'sad' (if not being sad)

i know that, it doesent bother me really, its just me being too analytical, unfortunately telling the truh is habitual for me..........


i keep relative sanity (at times) but there is nothing to do out there around me..

i only post stuff like this on here because i scratch my head thinking on what to do..........i could keep it locked inside and effect my health even more (been there)

ive read everything, and i still cant find a way out.........

ill give you an example.........

your in the middle of a room, there are 4 doors one on each wall, you open door number 1.... when you open it all you see is pitch black darkness........basically its a seemingly endless pit of nothing you just keep falling, full of uncertanty on when you will land (if you do)

door number 2, your freinds are there, so what do we have here........not really freinds if they backstab you, ignore you, talk about there own problems all the time, talk about the same things all the time, dont bother contacting you until there is a problem that i can help with.......

door number 3, ah yes the obligatory 'advice' section they give you, seemingly repeated by everyone who then analyses you inturn and thinks your a lazy idiot..........oh yeh and the religious aspect of trying to draw you in when your vunerable, quite amusing aspect is also whne others dont talk you seriously on your views about things, its always kronas being last at everything..........

door number 4 yep being at home, boring.........repetative.......non productive.........apart from being on the forum........when i hope to type to people about various things........looking for work........trying to get work....looking at all areas of work, i dont even know what id liek to do, so more uncertainty there!

so you see very simple eh ?

Re: [merged] what to do (etc .....)
 

Existential Angst.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~parkx032/O-ANGST.html

Learning to know anxiety is an adventure
which every man has to affront if he would not go to perdition
either by not having known anxiety or by sinking under it.
He therefore who has leaned rightly to be in anxiety
has learned the most important thing.

†â€ÂÂÂ�SÃÃâ€*â⠂¬â„¢ÃƒÆ’‚¸ren Kierkegaard in 1844

Re: [merged] what to do (etc .....)
 

some of that i can relate to..........

:tu:

EDIT:

this description is perfect..

thanks zendawn interesting link...........

Re: [merged] what to do (etc .....)
 

....something I'm not prepared to discuss on the board! If you want my honest opinion then I suggest you pm me - if not then you can leave it at that.

p.s. sorry about taking so long to reply - I've just got in from work. I forgot to take my wireless card with me today so no internet :(