Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

That's clear, just not "quite" what he said..:)

He's talking about a one-off admin fee. I like to know what he means by that.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Have you had a bad service with sky or just slagging them off?

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

What do Sky really have to do?

They hire uplink services, hire transponder space and thats it. They don't have to worry about local problems and network issues. They have to support 1 service, via 1 delivery medium.

They do have some fairly significant issues with customer hardware but obviously that doesn't seem to be important to some people :rolleyes:

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

That would be ideal but I think the Telewest charging structure is more likely.

---------- Post added at 17:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:29 ----------

This PRESS RED problem only started when the new software was rolled out last last year. With Freeview and Sky you can turn the PRESS RED off but on ntl you cannot. The Radio Times said at the start of this year that ntl was looking at a way to correct this problem, as people find this PRESS RED intrusion to be unacceptable. Sky seems to have found a way to remove it and Freeview also has as on my Freeveiw box PRESS RED never appears, but more than six months after the new ntl software appeared, which is then the problem, began, the problem remains the same and BBC TV is unwatchable on ntl. Thank goodness I have my Freeview box but Freeview doesn't carry BBC Parliament and I like watching the reruns of general Election results programmes and other archive stuff, which I am now no longer able to do due to the PRESS RED problem which ntl seems not to be fixing.

As for the ending of analogue on ntl, nothing has been said in public about switching off analogue TV and more than a quarter of ntl TV subscribers still have analogue. Only Telewest ahs amde a public commitment to ending analogue and I would imagine that it will sue the freed space for high definition services and I would guess that the reaosn ntl ahs not mentioned HDTV is becuase it ahsn;t the room due to analogue services till being taken by 25% of its TV customers.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Press Red on my Freeview appears all the time. AFAIK you can disable it on certain STBs.
On my NTL it appears around the start of each BBC programme and disappears after 20 secs or so.

BBC Parliament is on Freeview Channel 81 but quarter screen though, so a small red box on the top right hand corner isn't quite so bad by comparison;)

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Guys, the subject is NTL's upcoming HDTV service. Can we please stick to it?

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

On my ntl box it appears every few minutes and I am unable to stop it appearing. If it only appeared at the start of the programme then I would not have an issue but it appears during programmes every few minutes. Before it would only appear when programmes started. On my Freeview box it never appears at all but as you say Parliament is quarter screen so I can't sue Freeveiw to record programmes on Parliament and I like to tape the archive election programme reruns but obviously can't do so if PRESS RED appears every 5 minutes as it does on ntl becuase it maskes the programme unwatchable.

I fail to see why they can't offer people an option to turn it off permanently like they do with subtitles.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Back to HDTV.. err, except there is no ntl hdtv to talk about...

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

I See no confirmation from NTL that they will be using MPEG2 and my contact at Scientific Atlanta still says they are making the MPEG4 STB For NTL

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...117#post711117

Quadplay works for NTL, and is involved in the deployment of STBs on the network, so should know.

He says NTL won't be using MPEG 4.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

It may be that NTL have not yet informed SA yet to keep their options open until the last minute.

There was also a rumour that NTL would deploy the MPEG2 PVRs first to early adopters, as it could do that more quickly and the HD bandwidth requirements were low. It could then switch to the MPEG4 PVRs a year or so later when they were cheaper and there was more demand for HD bandwidth.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Woah there! I didn't say that. I just confirmed that the 8450 is not currently being developed for ntl platforms.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

....err, actually you said "its true" in response to the ntl is dropping the mpeg4 boxes. So in fact you did say it...

So after 8 pages mostly dicussing this, its looking like rubbish which is exactly what I said over on DS when I first heard about it:

Perhaps there should be a official statement from ntl clearing this up one way or another. But echoing previous posters, I reckon its more likely the mpeg2 tv drive gets deployed (where networks allow) in ntl areas this year. Then the mpeg4 box is deployed when sufficient numbers of them have been made and tested.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Exactly. The MPEG4 box. Not necessarily the technology. I don't know about that yet.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Ok, I'm lost...So you're saying (I think) you can have mpeg4 technology in a mpeg2 box? If so, I don't have any problem with that, as long as I can have a ntl tv drive as soon as its available.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

This is disapointing news if it's true. I'm not really bothered about the HDTV side of things, but did like the idea of the Scientific Atlanta 3 tuner PVR, and have been hanging fire on buying a hard drive dvd recorder on the basis of the announcement last year that they were bringing a PVR out, and looking at Scientific Atlantas demo page of it.

If it's not going to have that functionality, then I may as well just go and buy my own HDD PVR after all. The plus side of the ntl one was that I imagine the EPG would be linked in, so making setting up recordings easier y just selecting the programme from the EPG.

Also the £25 a month extra someone mentioned earlier in the thread would be a no go for me, I'd just buy a standalone HDD PVR. I wouldn't mind a one off fee to upgrade to the newer box, and the subscription fee stays the same (which I think is what was trying to be said earlier in the thread).

I wish ntl would make an up to date announcement one way or the other. We often wait for new things to come out, but youv'e got to draw the line somewhere.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

No, the 8300 isn't capable of MPEG4. I'm saying that I don't know if/when future boxes may allow the use of MPEG4 technologies.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

No, all the functionality of the PVR is in the MPEG2 box currently being issued in Telewest areas (TVDrive). The only difference between the Telewest STBs (which are definitely being used) and the NTL STBs (which are probably not being launched this year) is the HD technology.

Sky intend to charge £300 for the box and £10 per month on top of the subscription so NTL may decide to adopt a similar package.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

...ok, that's clear...:rolleyes: So just to tie things up, when the original poster said this:and somebody else said this:and you responded by saying this: so you basically didn't mean it and don't know any more than the rest of us...:)

If anybody was in a position at ntl/telewest (which you're clearly not) to know confidential information, they wouldn't be posting it on public forums such as this.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

So it still has the three tuners then?

Even if it has, it's academic if your prices are correct, as I wouldn't pay £300 for the box (I thought we'd rent it like currently?), I'd rather buy my own HDD DVD recorder of my choice rather than what ntl decide to give me.

I'd pay maybe a one off upgrade fee for the new box, but wouldn't expect the subscription charge to go up as they not offering me any more channels etc. The only advantage is being integrated with the EPG, which needs updating anyway, as I find the one on my £40 Freeview box much better laid out, and it's a 7 day guide...no extra costs to use.

If you can buy a HDD dvd recorder for £160 now (maybe even less), then they must get these boxes much cheaper when buying by the thousands.

For £300 do you own the box, or is it still the property of ntl?
Even if you own it, you can't use it any other way if you choose to leave ntl, like you could with a normal PVR.

I've waited a long time for this, but it's becoming a less viable option the more I read about it.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

....but that's the point I'm making. All stuff on here is just speculation. It may be right, it may be wrong. What's fact, according to the press release last year (copied below) is that ntl are going to release a mpeg4 pvr at some time....

Possibly, speculating (disclaimer over) I think that ntl might release the Telewest tv drive to hard core nutters like ourselves in time for the World Cup in hd. But as said elsewhere on this forum, the Telewest boxes were made for Telewest's network, not ntl's, so is probably unlikely. Plus there probably wouldn't be enough to go around.

As for pricing, I think, guessing (disclaimer over...) that there will be two options. Monthly rental or an up-front fee of about £300 (which seems reasonable to me) payable to ntl directly or the "friendly" folks at Dixons. What would make me walk away from the ntl pvr is if they said pay £300 for the pvr. Then pay a monthly rental to access the pvr features of the pvr, like Sky's done. Yes, I know Sky's pvr features are free if you take premium channels, but they're not if you don't.

Add to the mix, BT are launching their IPTV service this autumn. Giving customers the freeview channels, pvr and access to vod - for a price. Pretty powerful mix, if you ask me. It will be interesting to see what the new ntl does in the coming months to respond to this, or not...

MPEG4 Press Release issued last year by SA, not ntl, which was interesting in itself...!:

Release date: October 20, 2005

Scientific Atlanta’s First European MPEG-4 PVR Selected by ntl for Personal Video Recorder Service

KORTRIJK, BELGIUM/ATLANTA, GA, USA – Scientific Atlanta’s first MPEG-4 personal video recorder (PVR) for European cable operators has been selected by ntl for the launch of its PVR service in the United Kingdom.

The new HD PVR, introduced at IBC 2005, will enable ntl to take advantage of the bandwidth maximization and video storage benefits of MPEG-4 part 10/H.264 compression as it launches high-definition (HD) television and personal video recorder services. Additionally, three video tuners in the set-top will allow customers to record three shows simultaneously.

“We look forward to offering cable customers the combination of MPEG-4 PVR and high quality Video on Demand services in 2006,” said Shai Weiss, managing director of ntl’s Consumer Products division. “We wanted to leverage both this new technology and Scientific Atlanta’s extensive PVR experience to enable us to deploy a first-of-its-kind MPEG-4 PVR platform for the UK cable customers.”

The innovative video services featured in the Scientific Atlanta PVR, along with its Euro-DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem capabilities, will make this set-top a significant addition to ntl’s triple play of digital TV, broadband Internet and telephone services offered to cable customers. ntl, with more than 3.3 million residential customers, is the United Kingdom's largest cable operator. Its 10,857kilometer broadband network passes one-third of all homes in the United Kingdom.

The ExplorerÂÂÂÂ ® 8450DVB™ HD PVR helps service providers maximize bandwidth by supporting MPEG-4 advanced video compression decoding to enable them to launch HD services over existing networks.

The new European set-top platform will deliver the most compact PVR Scientific Atlanta has created, and will have three video tuners, be Multi-Room capable, and have USB 2.0 and Ethernet connectivity. With a substantial 160Gb hard drive, the device will be able to store up to 80 hours of content.

“In every market where we have helped operators launch PVR service, consumers have quickly embraced the choice, convenience and control delivered by this exciting technology,” said George Stromeyer, vice president and managing director at Scientific Atlanta Europe NV.

“Incorporating three video tuners into the Explorer 8450DVB HD PVR will further differentiate ntl’s PVR offering in the market and enhance the experience of PVR service for ntl’s customers.”

Notes for Editors:
About ntl
ntl Incorporated offers a wide range of communications and content distribution services to residential and business customers throughout the UK.
ntl is the UK’s largest cable company with 3.3 million residential customers, and the UK’s leading supplier of broadband services to consumers with 1.6 million customers. Information on ntl and its products can be obtained at www.ntl.com.
About Scientific Atlanta
Scientific-Atlanta, Inc. (NYSE: SFA) is a leading supplier of digital content contribution and distribution systems, video backbones, transmission networks for broadband access to the home, digital interactive set-tops, modems and subscriber systems designed for video, high-speed Internet and voice over IP (VoIP) networks, and worldwide customer service and support.

Scientific Atlanta Europe NV http://www.saeurope.com
Scientific Atlanta Corporate http://www.scientificatlanta.com

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

Most pertinent point from the p/r:

“We look forward to offering cable customers the combination of MPEG-4 PVR and high quality Video on Demand services in 2006,” said Shai Weiss, managing director of ntl’s Consumer Products division. “We wanted to leverage both this new technology and Scientific Atlanta’s extensive PVR experience to enable us to deploy a first-of-its-kind MPEG-4 PVR platform for the UK cable customers.”

When is VOD being rolled out to ex-cwc areas? You join the dots....

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

it could be mpeg4 it could be mpeg2, surely after seeing recent events (good example is the downgrade fee) ntl could change their mind numerous times on this and go either way. All we can do is wait and see.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

quadplay: nothing against you personally but I hope SA sue the **** off you guys for messing them about. They built a top quality PVR / STB for you and you mess them about, meanwhile you're happy to buy Samsung STBs that can't even manage an ethernet connection above 10Mbit half duplex.

It's all about the cost really isn't it? ntl probably didn't like the bill they were going to have actually buying decent kit to distribute to customers and, as per, go for the cheapest option, whcih will of course end up being more expensive in the long run due to a higher fault rate and more issues requiring support resources.

Quality pays. One hopes that one day ntl will realise this.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Neptune: VOD to ex-cwc areas? Probably not too far away now, there's only the Solent area listed on Langley side to be done before York starts off the VOD stuff for Bromley side, according to ntl:'s own list over on their VOD microsite.:D

As to HD rollout before the World Cup in just 100 days time, well it's probably stretching the bounds of reality to be able to adapt our networks to accept an "alien" 8300 DVR originally programmed to work with the Telewest EPG/HDTV systems that quickly. Look how long it took for Bromley/Langley to be running a reasonably identical software code in the normal EPG's for existing Pace and Samsung boxes, including two pilots of Bromley CR3 in York and Wearside areas.

Ignition: I'll second that, and add that its also interesting that since that "leak" from inside ntl: that speculated that the MPEG4 box had been scrapped, and the very negative reaction to that on here, and to a lesser extent on DS, that there's been no confirmation that its happened officially, but there's no denial either that the MPEG2 box won't appear on Bromley/Langley areas other than in postings in this thread, and no other solid information to back up either position is available apart from whats in that press release.

If I was to be slightly cynical, one might wonder whether that "dropping leak" was a way of ntl flying a kite to see what customers reactions would be to being given an older version of the HD stb that was originally promised, and whether we were happy with that?;)

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Not true the Supreme Package for Telewest is 17.50 per month as of March cos SKY as always put prices up, with the TVDIRVE i just got is an extra 10 per month so its 27.50 and with that its also covered by any fault that might go wrong with the box which is excellent where as SKY you is gonna be paying in the region of £300 and after the year manufacture gaurantee runs out and things go wrong with the box or the dish or the crapy cable they us you will be paying a furtune just to get a SKY engineer ou to look at it, or if you insure it its gonna be about £25.00 per month and as for the subscription on SKY the charges are crap. All I can say is TELEWEST have been the first to do it and it works, the BOX is designed by Scientific Atlanta and the software is fast and up to datethe best part is they use fiber optic cable which transmits faster than SKY ever will and the other part CABLE underground no signal loss....Glad I've got CABLE.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

That's totally inaccurate, it's not end to end fibre at all, there's still a fair bit of copper there in between you and the fibre optic node.

There's also some signal loss there too, unless Telewest have figured out how to make copper super-conduct.

Although I do kinda get what you are saying, but both are subject to signal loss faults. In theory cable is the better medium of the two, here's hoping our cable company actually starts taking proper advantage.

Those Telewest prices on the Supreme package are outstanding though, I wonder how they are able to deliver Sky Sports / Movies for £17.50 a month...

Internet broadband elite up to 10Mb
Digital TV Supreme Package TV Drive
Phone Talk Unlimited

£70.50 Total monthly cost

Unless they are getting Sky's channels cheaper than Sky are this is a nice loss leader and excellent value!

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Ignition, I think they have I'm in the South end of Liverpool, and everyone that I know have nerver really what I call a serious fault with their service, beside this side of Liverpool where I am was only just upgraded to Broadband and digital about 6 months ago so I think with the new software they are using now they have worked out alot of the bugs, besides a friend of mine who works at Telewest said they have spent a considerable ammount of money upgrading the network which they had to do in stages but now with the NTL merger they might be able to do more. But I'm happy with Telewest more than I was with BT RIP OFF's and SKY BIGGER RIP OFF's. Oh and by the way the Sports and the Movies are an extra £10 per month for me cos I have all 3 services so I get disscount. great stuff.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Poor guy, we're all having a go at him tonight:) He clearly doesn't decide what ntl do. Plus, has no one heard of a thing called a "contract". Once signed and all that...
if one were to be cynical, that could be a conclusion to come to:) But basically I reckon the ntl folks in here don't quite have the top insider knowledge they think they do...Knowing when a few channels are going to launch is not the same as knowing when a major product is going to be launched. Go by the facts, that usually works for me.

With regards to your World Cup comments, I agree, probably too soon. But why I mention the vod rollout, is a lot of things are happening then... As said on the DS forums, be a bit silly to have one marketing campaign for one product, then a few days later....another marketing campaign for another product...just guessing of course, but you never know.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Yes, I read that when I was looking at it when I first heard about it next year, sounds like a really good bit of kit...so not surprising if ntl does mess up and not use it. :)

It was announced on this forum itself, that they were using this box, so as Ignition says, I wouldn't be surprised if SA do take action if it's true. Surely ntl will have signed a contract to supply the boxes before SA would start manufacture?

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...tas-mpeg-4-pvr

Question is how long are people prepared to wait, we know the history of ntl moving the goalposts all the time. You'd think if they know these rumours are around (which I'm sure they will), that they'd make another announcement to reassure people that they're still on course.

The other thing stuck me. People have said it's not such an issue using mpeg2 as there will be plenty of bandwidth released when they turn analogue off. This may be so, but surely saving bandwidth is better is possible, especially looking to the future when they might need more if they intend to push broadband speeds ever upwards.

My understanding is mpeg 2 is DVD format, where mpeg4 does for video what mp3 does for audio, ie smaller sizes with no noticeable loss of quality..got to be worth investing in. Plus it would be easier now, to change the smaller number of Telewest customers to this new system, than try to make the larger number of ntl customers play catch up getting it all to work together later on.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

HD462: Re your contract point, exactly. Once its signed and sealed, that's it. Unless its a Wembley Stadium contract that is..:)

Re how long do we wait for the pvr, with ntl its always "coming soon". I think this time ntl really do need to get their skates on with BT Vision launching in the autumn....Most people have a BT telephone line, those that have not converted to digital tv will need to in the next few years. A lot of people don't want pay tv. All this puts BT in a very competitive position when they launch their IPTV PVR this autumn. I'm keeping my options open.

Re your second from last paragraph, have a look at my comments on the traffic shaping thread. What would the higher broadband speeds going to be used for....? email:)

On the diffrences between mpeg2 and mpeg4. MPEG4 is just a more efficient compression technology. Things are still compressed. On my 32" tv, mpeg4 is fine. But I've seen MPEG4 HD in the states and its like great and poor at the same time... Imagine pictures that are 3D like, with greater colour and depth to them coupled with seeing noticeable compression artifacts on 60" screen. Apples and oranges really...And MPEG4 is not just for tv. Hi-Def DVD are going to use it, if it ever gets launched. Although why people would want to buy hd-dvd films when they'll be able to get them by other methods, is beyond me.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

The same reasons as other countries that have speeds up to 100mbps I guess, products of the future, video streamed over the internet, don't go to the DVD shop to hire a film, you'll just click on the film you want to watch and it'll play, things like that I should imagine.

Buying music over the internet, buying DVDs without the disk, just download and burn (legally). Full screen high quality video conferencing with your long lost relatives in Oz. Endless options I should think...who'd have thought we'd have 10mbps broadband 5yrs ago? Even if it doesn't work properly! ;)

The same could be said of that, what do you use it for..email? :)

Not the sort of services I'd use mind you, as they'll no doubt have fees attached, and I'm always looking to cut my costs, not increase them. Plus I prefer the feeling of having something to show for my money which buying a real CD or DVD gives, rather than downloading from legal sharing sites....probably old fashioned I know...lol :)

Personally, I'm on 2meg, and only use less than 2gb a month normally. For me it's not the amount I can download, I'm not a 'downloader', but the more instantaneous speed with which web pages load, especially as they tend to have more graphics nowadays...must be a nightmare for people still on dialup.

The main things I use it for are forums, email, downloading software updates, photo sharing, and sometimes online gaming, plus the kids with the PS2 online occasionally.

========================

Mark :)

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

I do use email, yes. Amongst other things:)

Your point about the 10mb is a good one. Things change and can change quickly and this is what I'm trying to say on the traffic shaping thread. I think you'll still get your DVDs/CDs from stores for a while longer. But at some point, music companies and film studios are going to say "why have all the cost of getting things onto shelves when we can just have them on a server for customers to download." Will your kids prefer a walkman or an ipod?? I'd hedge my bets on which one they'd choose.

All content has converged into one format its called digital. 15 years ago music tapes, video tapes, film cameras were the norm and all in diffrent formats...Now look, its pretty much all digital all in the same format. I couldn't imagine watching tv, film, listening to music, home camcorder films, photos all on the same device even 7 years ago. Now its the norm.

Most of the traffic now on the internet is the illegal downloading of films/tv. And what I'm saying on the traffic shaping thread is that ntl/bt etc are going to get their slice of the cake and make it legit. IPTV and other systems will deliver that content to customers, for us to do whatever the hell we like with it.

Ntl aren't going to make their money from phone calls to Granny, or from millions of tv channels showing old BBC shows. They'll make their money supplying us with new HDTV film and tv. There, got the thread back on to HDTV;)

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Hey, believe what you want guys. I've put my job at risk enough for one week.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Well i for one am looking forward to HDTV, whenever it finally arrives ;)

....World Exclusive.....drum roll
 

Ok, if you read my "little" points on here, then this is not news. But (unsurprising to me) ntl will launch HDTV this summer:)

At the financial presentation today (available on ntl's website) ntl's bosses said HDTV will launch this summer "around" the World Cup launch. They did not say, or were asked (the prats) whether the World Cup will be available in HDTV. If I were a betting man and I am...I would say that it will be. But I think (the webcast was not clear) for the time being HDTV will be via VOD only, the same as Telewest areas.

One analyst did ask whether Sky's premium sports and films would be available in HDTV on ntl and the answer was that ntl did not have access to those services under existing agreements. No mention was made of "normal" HDTV channels on ntl.

I think the same questioner also asked, that if analogue is switched off, shouldn't this allow more HDTV services. The unclear answer was that 74% of ntl's network (I think they meant customers) take digital only services. I'm guessing here (but it was inferred by ntl), that in areas where most customers take digital, analogue could be switched off quicker and HDTV services, amongst overs, could be launched.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

the 26% on analogue services is ntl's own doing, they know what they need to do to get the % lower.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Link to presentation:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix...eventid=1276850

You need to register first. (put in any name/email address) The hdtv comments are made between 01:17:20-01:20:30 and briefly again later at 01.34.20 into the webcast. You can skip straight to these positions.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

erm... Solent is on the Bromley platform McYorkie, so we are one of the first Bromley areas to get the VOD code, along with Watford and a few others I think :)

PVR this summer too?
 

Stating the obvious really, but when ntl release HDTV services this summer, they have to have the stb to enable this. So as per previous comments, we now have the timetable for the ntl pvr launch - summer, possibly in June.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

How strange.... I posted here the other day when ntl are launching hdtv and (guessing) but vod too and barely a comment....Now that everyone knows, I guess that's the end of the thread.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

i do wish people would stop refering to the standard as mpeg4, its not .

its really mpeg4 -part10-, more commonly refered to as AVC or more so, h.264, the so called older and not as good mpeg4
is infact more likely to be Xvid or divX, so please try and use h264 to avoid confusion and iv had the americans trying to subvert threads elsewere implying we brits are not infact getting the more advanced h264 HD tv before they are,for some strange reason they dont seem to like not being first !.

remember its h.264 or AVC at a pinch 'mpeg4 AVC' if you must 8)

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

I think ill stick with MPEG4.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

well this reply is more for the readers info, rather than correct you as someone already did.

the facts dont support your assumption and thats all it is.

first as i posted above mpeg-4 (i noticed you went to the trouble of putting in the minus LOL) is NOT mpeg-4 -part10-
the real HD TV h.264, aka AVC, standard.

second " The purpose of MPEG-4 is to create a watchable image at extremely low bandiwdth...." is wrong, the newer
DVB-H (h for handheld as apposed T,C or S) is to cover that
aspect but again only to a degree depending on bandwidth available to the wireless and other phone,etc networks.

the real h264 encoder has far more control and finer block patten than the old-hat mpeg-2 , so hence if you start with a lossless encoded (their still very large files) video file and encode that file with both mpeg2 and h264 at the same bit rate, and other high grade settings then the h264 file will always look and in fact be better and smaller by an average 50% or more.

if you start with a high grade mpeg2 file and re-encode that to h264 with high settings then again within resonable perception that resulting h264 file will be just as good looking and smaller than the mpeg2.

however starting with an older what people wrongly call mpeg4 but infact are Xvid/DivX will become usually werse that the original at far less space saving so dont make that mistake and wast effort and time.

hope thats clearer for people that like learning something new.

remember it h.264 or AVC people.......

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Me too.

I doubt very much if most NTL customers care if its Part 1, 10 or 324 of MPEG 4, or even if its MPEG 2.

What they do care about is when NTL will being out a PVR with the ability to do HDTV.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

thats fare enough, if you find typing mpeg4 easyer than avc
great, interesting about the PVR you would get at *least* twice the amount of video on that hard drive with h264, would they care about that if it was only mpeg2 ?.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Do the majority of Telewest customers care about that? No. And you know why? Because they HAVE PVR and HDTV functionality, right now.

And yes, I am capable of typing 'MPEG 4'. And I am well aware of the extra recording space and better compression with MPEG 4.

You're assuming that the majority of the public are wised-up on the advantages of MPEG 4 and Part 10 and AVC. Newsflash - most of the public don't know these terms, or even care. They want a PVR with HDTV - they dont care how it works or what compression format it uses - they want the functionality that such a device would offer, ASAP!! Its that simple.

When Telewest released their PVR, did you see loads of their customers crying about the fact that it records in MPEG 2 rather than MPEG 4 (Part Whatever)??? Nope.

Did you see the majority of Telewest customers saying "Wahh!! They didn't use MPEG 4 Part 10!!!! :mad: Now I can't record over 30 hours on my TVDrive's 80Gig Drive!!!" Nope.

What you DID see is loads of posts about how they can watch World Cup footy in HDTV and how they can finally watch one channel while recording two other at the same time.

I agree that NTL should use MPEG 4 - but right now, if using MPEG 2 instead of MPEG 4 means that our PVR gets released this year rather than 'coming soon', I doubt if the majority of NTL customers would care (especially the ones who know nothing about compression formats).

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

hi.
is there a spec someware for that box ?, is it able to muticast
over the rj45 to any local computer, or indeed the other way around, take a muticast or http/rtp feed from a local computer
running for instance vlc and decode that stream through the stb to the atached tv ?.

is it using the liberate OS in the box or something far more substantial and realtime such as qssl/qnx/rtp thats a far better and reliable os for an stb.

any info welcome and finally will ntl enable any/all the options its able to do.

---------- Post added at 13:42 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------

fare enough Chris, what you getting all worked up for mate its not really a big problem is it.

one thing though your wrong, i dont assume anything and hence why i asked that peole call it by its name (any 3 of them).

whats more i gave these people that dont currently know, the outline in case these people were interested.

i somewhat agree with your overall pessimistic view that many people are quite happy being ignorent of the facts.

these people might as well just go down the local argos and get one of the £80 quid PVR's and own them outright and be happy, id better not mention protected Hi-def content and how that might effect people chooses regarding tv's and stuff for risk of you really getting upset, remember Chris its not werth it , its only tv mate, all the best, anyway hope your feeling better later. ;)

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Who says I'm worked up?

You're the one who insisted on us calling MPEG 4 as "h.264, aka AVC", remember??? ;)

Hell, I've ready stated on these forums that I probably won't be having NTL's HDTV PVR - I already have a HD DVR which does a very good job for me with a monthly rental of £0.00. So in the long run, I couldn't care less what spec NTL's PVR is.

And I'm feeling quite fine, thank-you very much. :)

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

I agree with you chris most ntl customer will not care what ever mpeg version etc it is

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264

So sky will broadcast in H.264 (see Applications section)

If NTL provide MPEG-2 boxes, then it has to re-code the H.264 signal into MPEG-2 and send it to the NTL STB boxes. Insane....

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Depends what they recieve. It may be that Sky is transcoding MPEG2 to H.264 .

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Yes: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...tas-mpeg-4-pvr :)

6 months down the line & there's still no sogn of ntl's HDTV service....

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Just finished speaking to my sister on the phone she cannot believe what a jump she has had on sky, she told me about how she can record shows etc. to her sky plus box and the sheer number of channels (from ntl analogue) she wont be looking back now.

Ntl are still in the 90s.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

The MPEG4 box that Ntl were looking at would have cost them less per unit than the current one Telewest are rolling out.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Surely then it would have made sense to scrap orders for the TVDrive and to extend the newer, more advanced and cheaper STB to Telewest areas.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Im still waiting for tv drive from ntl it seems like its never going to happen

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

You'd have thought so, given that the MPEG4 version had a better specification, and that ntl: will now have to either replace all the TW boxes with MPEG4 versions nationwide when these MPEG2 ones are obsolete, or else spend even more money than intended putting extra equipment into all the Headends to downscale MPEG4 broadcasts to MPEG2 versions.

It really is a shame that the new guy from ex-TW who's in charge of this now (as posted earlier in this thread), is so shortsighted about the speed of technological development with HD broadcasting - and that everyone else in the UK i.e. Sky and the BBC so far, will be using MPEG4 systems for their operations that he's sticking with a method of distribution that will take up more bandwith, not less, and will cost more to implement over the long term - and may potentially reduce the amount of HD content available to customers because of the very system chosen by them to use for networks than going with the MPEG4 unit ordered by ntl:.

As yet however there's no official information on HDTV for ntl: areas, apart from a contradictory press release on another website, quoting from two different people in the ntl: media centre, and the "unofficial" but very useful information gleaned by Neptune in this thread.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

I totally skimmed over the above post, can you please keep your posts non-bold :) Thanks :)

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

mcyorkie: nothing unofficial about it - it's the opposite! Go to ntl's website, listen to the webcast at the places i highlighted and hear with your own ears "hdtv launching this summer on ntl" from ntl's own boss who's involved in it and says it more than once...Where's there hdtv there is a pvr. The question is, what one is it going to be...?

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

....coming soon??

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

If the source is from a US broadcast then it most likely will be aswell.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Whilst I'm not defending ntl with the use of MPEG-2 as opposed to 4, on a best case of a network which uses a 8mhz channel, 256QAM system will somewhat still have near to double the available bandwidth currently Sky employs if Sky is assumed to have 70 transponders operating to DVB-S. Sky using DVB-S2 for their HD will mean at a best case nearly 30% more efficient use of bandwidth on a transponder; still not enough to match the amount of bandwidh available on cable.

So maybe the benefits of using h.264 may not be negated by ntl and their decision considering how we are not likely to be bombarded by ****ty bidding and shopping channels going HD and there will be enough bandwidth to hold the few channels that will be HD compared to HD for a few years to come.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

The very first thing we need will be an 8 day EPG, the current 3 day EPG is not working this weekend, so what use is HDTV and PVR if the EPG either does not work or only covers 3 days. I can just about record all I want for a weeks holiday but, 2 weeks or longer and I'll have to choose wether to miss West Wing or 24, but there again my holiday is after the world cup and I reckon it will be the next world cup before we see HDTV and PVR that will actually work - NTL are that slow ( like its EPG ).

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

for all your "not defending" its clear that theres lots of H264/avc content becoming ready and indeed the bbc and other production houses have been filming in professional HD camera's since 2004 at least, and its that content that will be down-converted to both SD and the new DVB-H (handheld) H.264 format coming across the whole of the EU and elsewere very soon.

also,apparently pace will be showing off their new HD cable box to the EU people
http://www.pacemicro.com/corporate/n...422&template=0
"Pace brings HD and next generation products to ANGA Cable 2006
* Latest products to be exhibited at the Show * Pace Expert to speak on networking HD around the home *"
"Pace will be showing its family of HD set-top boxes, including a new free-to-air HD set-top box which will be available in retail across UK and Europe from May this year. This set-top box is based on the DS810 platform - which was the first DVB-S2 H.264 HD set-top box in the World and launched the Premiere HD service in Germany in December 2005."

looks like DVB-S2 H.264 HD 'is the standard' everyones using, as we have been saying all along, no matter what the new NTL ex TW top guy tells them to go with long term....:Yikes:

still with contracting for 1.3 million samsung old mpeg2 cable boxs with VxWorks/liberate (they dont seem to have very much H.264 related software that i can find) installed, and thats just NTL, TW had somthing like 1 million contracted too i seem to recall, than that puts them and by default, the end-users having to finance that before any real inovation i suppose........

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

dose this mean if we dont get hd from ntl we can go out and buy a hd freeview box and be able to get the world cup in high def?

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

You will need to get on the BBC's Freeview trial 1st.

Also-has anyone seen this:

Oh dear.....

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

And live in central London!

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

That's astonishing! A bit like saying "We will wait until all our customers have left before providing a service they want".

Surely, by the time "most channels have gone HD" most people who want HD will have gone for the service that provides it (SKY) !

Not that I believe most channels will be HD by mid 2007!

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Pretty much, it also says to me that "we are actually not technically ready, & as usual will launch a DTV product well behind behind Sky"

Well the usual 'early adopters' will have, for the rest who haven't been convinced the like of Sky will convince them.

Agreed, but you can get it ordered now from Sky, & be watching it in 4 weeks.

TW still have not released details of what they will actually be showing in HD on their TV Drive service, so for the time being if you want HDTV you will have to get Sky.

I would also put a wager on that when the 2006/2007 footy season kicks off there will be a rush for Sky HD. ;)

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

what is the point in bring out a hd freeview box if there is nothing to watch on it?

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

its called seeding the markets, in this case 'in retail across UK and Europe from May this year' .

its not just pace looking to introduce FTA HD boxs, you can even get USB sticks now such as the 'Nova-t Stick by Hauppage
http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-comput...es-low-cost-tv
"
Hauppauge has introduced a low-cost TV tuner USB ‘stick’ for laptop and PC users. The £49.99 WinTV Nova-t Stick comes with a high-performance portable aerial and high-gain silicon tuner technology for improved Freeview reception."

"It is high-definition TV (HDTV)-compliant so users will be able to view the current trials the BBC is running on Freeview to see what all the fuss is about."

the thing to keep in mind is this kit is for the whole of the EU and everywere else were DVB-T2 is/will be available also remember that its backward compatable to the DVB-T as a standard.

(the difference between T,C,S,H and their '2' extension is like the wireless 11b and the 11G difference, they both use the same airwaves/freqs but can get more data into the same space IYSWIM).

pinnocchio posted this email elsewere from the BBC
"Just got this E-Mail back from the BBC.....thought people may be interested.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for contacting the BBC with your enquiry.

We have not got a launch date yet for the HD trial. Keep checking http://www.bbc.co.uk/digital/tv/hdtv.shtml for updates. What I can answer at this stage is that we will be transmitting MPEG4 DVB-S moving to DVB-S2.

Just like our other satellite broadcasts, the BBC HD trial stream will not be encrypted, so open standard HD satellite receivers may be able to pick it up. You need to understand that the BBC's HD trial is due to end after 12 months and such boxes may not receive the full range of on-screen
programme information and interactivity.

I hope you find the information helpful.

Kind Regards



XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
BBC Reception Advice"

as for NTL and the net speed 2/10meg updates that helps them deliver not just the VOD everyones talking about, it also allows them to take a direct feed of the BBC H264 and let the NTL Broadband users take that feed for display on any reasonable computer and monitor useing VLC or a directX codec such as the new CoreAVC, im betting that although they could, they wont :o:

infact, (i cant find the url's right now) you can buy new video cards today that have the
HD HDMI outputs on them as standard and probably feed the net HD h264/AVC directly to your HD ready TV set with some thought.

anyone interested in the BBC R&D writup from about 15 months ago here
http://www.dvb.org/documents/newslet...SCENE%2012.pdf

they basicly multiplexed 2 streams, 1 a H.264/AVC, the other the MS VC-1 codec into a 54mbit/s mpeg transport stream that was only a 1280x720 but there was plenty of bandwidth then,and today the higher x1024 can be put into the same space now.

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

I thought this was basically common knowledge. Neil if you actually believe you are going to see anywhere near the amount of SD channels by 2007 then you are very mistaken. Look at their launch lineup - 8 Channels.

I don't rate Sky One, so that basically just leaves BBC HD and Sky Movies/Sports (Discovery HD if they actually showed stuff like Mythbusters in HD which they don't). Oh, no it doesn't, BBC HD will be broadcast free over satellite anyway so that just leaves Sky Movies/Sports.

All in all it, three or four good channels leaves itself as a very niche product at a price most will not shell out for. Yes, ntl are losing out on the status of being able to say the broadcast HD to its customers but really, in terms of the quality and content of what is available, who cares?

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Have ntl ever cared about quality?

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

They air the same channels as Sky, Neil.



Its standard practice anyway to offer new technology with limited features at an over inflated price. The deep pocketed and foolish adopt, whilst the rest of us wait.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Who are you referring to?

Agreed.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Your mum?

...

Who else?! ntl!!! =D

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

No need for comments like that, please keep it respectful.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

I thought it was pretty obvious who I was referring to, there was two cm between the actual question about ntl and my answer.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

ntl - you've missed the boat again

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

wht has that got to do with ntl hd

Re: Where Is Hdtv From Ntl.....when?
 

Yes. Just because things are filmed to a higher standard then what it is actually broadcast doesn't mean it is aching to be released. We've been recording to film since the year AD which can be considered to have much more pixels as a comparable resolution to 1920x1080.

The difference being DVB-S2 was designed for satellite and not cable.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

:D EXCELLENT NEWS:D

on may 15th BBC HD is supposed to launch.Seeming as it is a bbc channel it should be on ntl!!
BBC will broadcast the world cup and then wimbledon in HD
But we still need the HD stb and ntl to start broadcasting HD. this will hopefully influence them

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

You honestly think Ntl give a stuff when broadcasters are staring their services? It'll be like every other Ntl service, they'll get it done when they feel like it and not before.

My advice mate - get yourself over to www.sky.com/hd if you're aching to get the world cup in HD - it's probably going to be the only real way. Either that or you could rent a house in a smellywest area for the duration of the games! I know which one is cheaper :disturbd: :)

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

oh sorry!

i thought that some people might actually want to know about this kind of thing judging that it is in the NTL HD thread:mad:

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Put it this way, we wont be seeing this content on NTL.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

well, its not like i think they will give the ntl users an HD box able to play back the raw BBC HD content any time soon, but it may end up being a box that is based on this reference design.
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/cus...ce/7009100.pdf

the 8450DVB HD onboard GFX engine doesnt look like its able to exelerate the current Liberate gfx
middleware anywere near needed for todays ntl market though, it might be considered good enough from NTL's POV just like the other older stbs before it.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

And without an HD box, what will you watch it on?

If you are going to watch the Worlkd Cup/Wimbledon/24 etc it's going to be via Sky HD & not ntl.

Fact.

End of.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Not fact.

Freesat? After all the transmission is unencrypted, so you just need a box that can decode the h.264 DVB-S2 streams or whatever is used.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

I think I will bide my time while all this HD stuff calms down. This goes for TV's, DVD Recorders (i.e. Blue-Ray or HDDVD?) and which company to go for HD Set Top boxes. Wake me up in 3 years time. zzzzzzzzz

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Coldn't agree with you more, i am doing the same. It's not like i am unhappy with present quality now. VHS was always rubbish, nothing wrong with current TV pictures or the quality of current DVDs.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

1) How accessible is that to the general public?

2) How much does it cost?

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Very accesible, you just need a dish which is like a tenner on ebay or a sky dish if you already have one.

Then either a STB, atm I can find Humax HDCI2000 and Pace DS810XE both at £299 or a DVB-S2 PCI card such as the Technotrend S2-3200 HDTV-S2 for just under £90.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Have you all got hd tv's? You realise you need a nice expensive tv for this.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

You can get a low-end branded HD Ready LCD for about £700. This is what my Sony Wega 28 inch cost about 7 years ago.


So, while £700 is still an awful lot of money, prices have come down massively, and will continue to fall.

In fact, when my current TV blows up, I will go for and HD ready TV..

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Doesn't sound very accessible to Joe Public IMO.

If it were that simple Sky would be out of business.

You are referring to an enthusiasts set of kit there, not something that is mass market.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Not really enthusiasts Neil, just because something is documented widely enough like Sky is doesn't make it 'enthusiasts'. You don't need to be brain of Britain to figure it out.

Its perfectly accessible, buy the box on any decent etailer and get a dish.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

Joe public still will go for Sky as it's available in every high street retailer, & not just 'any decent etailer'

People don;t want to have to do the homework on these sorts of things, they want to walk in, sign up, walk out.

That's why your idea is still restricted to enthusiasts & not Joe Public.

Re: Where Is HDTV From ntl.....when?
 

You wouldn't say that if you saw/watched HD for any length of time. Current TV/DVD looks very poor when you switch back to it after a couple of hours watching a HD film.

---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:30 ----------

What do you define as expensive? Expensive is generally viewed as relative to a persons income.
I didn't view the cost of my 32" HD ready JVC LCD as expensive at £975. Quite the contrary, I got a lot of TV, feature wise, for a reasonable price. If I get anywhere near the years of service from it that I got from my old 4:3 Sony 29" that it replaced then it'll be a bargain :)