Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I have registered my interest in a 4mb (my local exchange is only 2meg) connection, probably along time off like maybe 10yrs :cry: lol. I have added bdol 87431(in the in the section Where did you hear about Bulldog? part) so fingers and toes crossed hopefully you might get something.

I think its a 2 horse maybe 3 horse race Bulldog and Pipex the 3rd isp i have heard very little of im hoping to recieve a reply from a few people that have their service, looking around the isp's adsl forums there is always someone complaining that they have had or having problems at one time or another so its a misconseption/no isp is completely free of problems. so if you decide to leave NTL depending on which isp you pick you might go from bad to worse.

Those of you reading and are wondering who is the 3rd isp i will reveal the 3rd name of the adsl isp in a few days (if anyones interested) as the prices are v. competitive (looking at their web page) and also noticed they do have their own customer forum setup aswell just waiting for some feedback on the avarage connection speed service, customer service and faults.

thought so each supplyier selling it could give a better discription of the DG834.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

It is possible to have as many problems if not more with ADSL.

At work we have had numerous problems, in fairness mainly with BT and their exchanges. If we could get cable we would probably have that because we are getting rather sick of BT in general, I honestly dont see how they need to rebuild the curcuit twice between us in the exchanged, obviously it was botched the first time. Also it resulted in a crackly hissing line to the present day.....to which BT Insist we try 4 handsets on each extension....around 35!! Then they 'might' consider investigating a clear fault. The CS rep even asked why the line was crackling when we rang..insisted our phone was at fault..yes BT have excellent customer service! NOT. The ADSL line which is seperate doesnt have the crackles!?!

Honestly most companies customer service are a joke after you get past a certain size, the smaller the company the better, the same goes for ISPs.

Think its a matter of luck and dependant on where you live!

If you live in a over subscribed cable area that could be very poor! Undersubscribed your Ok. If you live in an area using 50:1 contention on your connection where all users to your exchange are maxing their connection it can be as fast as a one legged horse, you might as well yank it out and plug in the modem......except that will only run at about 36kbs after you convert you line.nightmare!!

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I have to agree think that Cable is good but the cable companies need to keep up.
Online gaming is getting more popular especially with my kids but they keep on whinging about upload.

Its a shame that the upload can not match the ADSL connections at this time.

I know go 1meg to get this is the answer but for the cost my own view is that adsl is for gaming at this time.

I myselfover the coming months are having to weigh up if the answer to the upload problem is to go ADSL.

I must admit have alkways been a supporter of cable, to the point of being very laid back about the problems sometimes. And not a great lover of BT really

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

They should do something like a 600k Professional or something for £27 with a quicker upload speed, I for one would definately be interested. I agree the 1Meg doesnt justify the extra 10 quid, when faster upload is the only extra i require at the current time.

Its almost gonna be tempting to have the freedom ADSL Sevice from ntl next year as that will offer quicker upload presumably at similar prices. The only issue is...I dont want 2 telephone lines (1 free with TV) and dont want Sky (previous issues) so looks like i gotta keep the slower uploads.

I may re evaluate the TV situation after the Sky price hikes come in on ntl in March/April. Im not paying 40 quid plus for repeats repeats repeats! Ill just have to by some DVD Rs and record everything I like 1st time round!

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I think that is a good idea and me and you agreeing on something must be a good idea:)

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

lol - I won't get anything unless you sign up :)

It may also be worth you registering an interest in Primetime 2000 - its what I did to get it to my exchange.

Alltime/Primetime 2000 use 2MB

The 4MB lines are only available on 35 exchanges in Central London where Bulldog have their own equipment - so you are unlikely to see that kind of speed anywhere apart from the big cities for years..

Also as a side note Hi-Velocity "resell" Bulldog but they also resell various other telco's/ISP's products so are able to offer services in many more exchanges, if not nationally..

Do tell:)
If its Fast 24 though - avoid though

They had a support forum on their web site (well they still do) but due to the number of unhappy ppl they limited it to subscribers only!

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I'm going to persuade my mum to sign up to broadband, apparently her exchange is enabled, just got to get a line test arranged if she agrees.

She's having terrible trouble with her dialup connection, but then again, she's still running Windows 95 on a 14 yr old 500mb HDD that I gave her. :D

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

14 year old? Are you sure?

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Very sure I had the comp for 8 years then gave it to my mum about 6 years ago.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Im changing ISP again soon (hence the chasing around to see whats on offer) and all the looking/searching around i have done these past few weeks i have half made my mind up. when i have further looked at this other competitive/cheap adsl isp i will have fully made my mind up. I was a bit suprised that alot of adsl isp's dont have customer/technical support on a sunday.


yup ive already done that.


I dont really see the logic in that all its doing is spreading the money gathered in/workload and they dont undercut Bulldog price wise.

I have always wondered why cant BT just upgrade the trigger level to number were it will take more than 6 months to exceed instead of adding the exchanges again to a list to be upgraded.


I will reveal all soon, i will be phoning them up tomorrow to see how long the wait is before i get to speak to customer support and to also see what advice they give me, a few of my friends that have moved/migrated from well known adsl isp's are already using the service they have promissed to send me email on mon/tues so i will have a better idea what the service is like from inside.

plus points are so far its cheap and there is no fee imposed if you switch service tier and theres No Cap :tu:

Its not Fast 24 although Plusnet did look atractive if you wanted a 1meg service at £32.99 a month but i then discovered if you find/decided the service was crap the cancellation fee is a whooping £129.99 out of all the adsl isp's i have reviewed this must be a record, unless anyone can find another isp to top it?


And i wonder did she donate it to NTL Teeside UBR because it would certainly answer alot of questions at peek times in my area :)

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Sounds a bit like what Community will-be/would-have-been, where none of the gripes of present ntl customers will/would be visible to potential customers.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

No you won't.I'm happy with what I've got except for the DTV and even that's a minor irritation.

Oh I forgot the exorbitant phone bill I had last month of £3.19.: D

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

are you sure you wont be the only one here;)
I've just placed an order with pipex so with luck NTL can :kiss: goodbye to my
£75 a month.
pipex= faster service cheaper price :eek: what have I been waiting for :dunce:
I'm going to have a :rudo: :beer: with the money I save.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I used to have ADSL and had it for 3 years, having since moved to ntl cable (forced to by landlord) I have not really has bandwidth problems but the email is terrible and the dns servers are the same, obviously the dns servers have a big impact on the service making everything perform poorly. Also my tv I feel is below par because ntl are effectively offering a different service depndong on where you live, my area is analogue tv only meaning I am getting a reduced service for the same price.

Ok now onto ADSL

there are a few different types of adsl services, starting with the 2 major ones.

20:1 ipstream adsl (commercial usually but not always the case now, more below)
50:1 ipstream adsl (residental service)

Both these are the standard type of ADSL service available in all ADSL enabled exchanges provided by BT wholesale, the 50:1 service is aimed at residental customers and is cheaper than the 20:1 service, currently the 50:1 service is available at 512kbit and 1mbit (trial). The 20:1 service was originally only for commercial customers with a very high price tag but it has since dropped dramatically allowing some isp's to resell it to residental customers, plusnet and nildram are two that I know off doing this, 20:1 is available at 512kbit,1mbit and 2mbit speeds. All ipstream services have 256kbit upload and are actually contended much lower than advertised by BT wholesale, users on the 50:1 service are yet to have any real contention issues any contention is normally caused by the ISP side of things.

next we have datastream, this is a new type of connection emerged recently and this is probably what caused BT to drop their prices for the 20:1 ipstream service, the difference between ipstream and datastream is that ipstream mixes different isp's customers together on a BT wholesale managed pipe and contends them, whilst datastream is just a pipe used by 1 isp's customers only. Datastream allows the isp to sell services at their own specification speeds, contention ratios etc. but because of the lower amount of customers on the pipe it is more expensive to provide and as such contention is usually much more noticeable on datastream services.

Isp's I know off using datastream are tiscali and bulldog. Datastream isnt available in all exchanges but is available in a lot more exchanges than LLU. Datastream is available in speeds upto 2mbit like 20:1 ipstream.

LLU is another type of adsl when the Isp installs their own equipment in the exchange and has a lot more control over the connection and exchange equipment.

This is allowing them to sell services at very flexible specification eg. 8mbit adsl.

Bulldog and easynet use LLU.

LLU is only available in some london exchanges and is been expanded to some major cities at the moment.

So there you have it this might not be 100% accurate but I hope it answers some questions, generally I wouldn't reccomend datastream I would defenitly go with an Ipstream service but with the drop in price on 20:1 ipstream you can get affordable 2mbit adsl on every exchange.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I think you're mistaken, sorry, 14 years ago I got a spanking new 486 and 500 meg drives back then were the stuff of fantasies.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

You can also get Broadband modems that are PCI slot modems as well. They look much neater and are hidden inside the PC.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Well I reccomend a speedtouch 510 V4 its very impressive has many functions like dhcp spoof and has a firewall function as well, it also looks cool.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

well now, my pipex account is working and it wasn't even supposed to be activated until the 22nd.
for the first time since I had ntl 600k broadband I have been able to watch streaming video without a pause while the download catches up, it's a shame it took a pipex adsl account to do it.

LOL goodbye ntl :rofl:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Welcome to the world of decent surfing speeds/reliable email/ & general all round good customer service.

A wise move Trebor, you won't regret it IMO. :tu:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Since others still seem too busy worshiping pipex I will thank you for a very imformative post. :D

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

As i am in a class of "others" i wish to inform you for the record i for one dont worship Pipex or false idols.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Me either-I just like to receive a good/stable/reliable product & service, in return for my hard earned cash-something you don't normally get with ntl. :rolleyes:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

very true, I also now get double the upload speed and all for a cheaper price :rofl:
It's not pipex worship, it's a message for all NTL users. I never realised how bad NTL were until I stopped using them.
the sad thing is they don't care their service is crap and they don't care people are leaving. so as far as I can see they only have themselves to blame.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Well said Trebor-you hit the nail right on the head. :tu:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Sorry, but as one of these users, my service is not crap and I understood from the last report that the number of BB users was increasing, not decreasing ? - Something like 800,000 at the last count I think.

I am well aware that some people get a poor / crap / unacceptable service and that NTL are not the best in the world - I however, do not make the mistake of thinking everyone gets this poor service - many hundreds of thousands seem to be satisfied.

Even if, on any given day, 8000 users have a problem then that is only 1% of the total (in other words 99% are problem free).

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Not necessarily-a lot of people just put up with the service for various reasons, either they are not aware of an alternative, or think it's too difficult, or simply can't be doing with 'the aggro' of switching.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I wonder what NTL do with all that money they gather in each month?

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Well the only thing we can say for certain is that we don't actually know one way or the other what they think - if they are really satisfied or not.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

We do know what NTL forum customer/members think and thats not speculation

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Not plough it back into a network that is creaking under the ever increasing numbers of customers that they are signing up under the pretence that they will get a great BB service, or training for their staff who they put on the phones to deal with customers that don't know the first thing about ntl's products or how to resolve a customer's problem, that's for sure. :rolleyes:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

If you reconect to bt can they use the ntl cable going in to the house and existing tel sockets or do they put new cable and phone sockets in :shrug:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

My BT reconnection consisted of an engineer walking in - moving my phone plug from the ntl socket to the bt socket (Which are next to each other) - he then picked up the phone and dialed his mobile to see if it was all working.

All in all he was there about 3mins.... And for this I waited in all morning :)

The could have just asked me to do it myself. :D

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I dont think the majority of people are that stupid.......

I will always shop around for the best service, and I think the majority of Internet users are pretty clued up on finding what suits them at the best price.

At the end of the day ntl is still the cheapest braodband provider because you dont have to have a telephone line to get it.

IE.
Any ADSL Broadband requires a BT Line at £9.50 (However BT normally force you onto the £11.50 package *in theirs 'your' best interest!)

Then you will require the service provider at £18 +, so were talkin a minimum of 28 quid!

Britain is a cheapskate nation....will close all our factories down and import shoddy crap from abroad. Most people are attracted by cost.

Certain areas of the ntl network have big problems but others are working great.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

A few years ago (depending on which area you live) you didnt have much choice of internet BB but now a few years on prices have come down and people have a much wider choice available to them today, for example if your phone or dtv provider has treated you badly over what ever problems you have to the point that you are fed up you have a choice to move and try a competitor.

if you want to have faster BB connection and your currant provider has no plans in the future to supply it for whatever reason you have the choice to move. if you have suffered a poor connection time after time and have sort help to rectify the problem but with your currant isp the problems just keep returning because your isp wont invest in their network causing over subscription causing misery for you whatever reason you may have you now have a wider choice to move to another supplyier weather it be ADSL to cable or vice versa.

Price wise between isp's its swings and rounderbouts what you save on one you loose on another.

what it boils down to is if your happy with the level of service that you recieve from your provider you stay where you are.

If not you have a choice to move and try someone different and keep moving until you are happy with what you pay for/recieve.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

just phoned NTL to cancel all the services (over £80 a month) and they didn't even ask why, let alone try to pursued us to stay. To me it just proves what a poor company they are. when they don't care why their customers are leaving how will they ever improve what they provide.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

That pretty much sums them up. If they really about where they were going wrong, the management would take active steps to find out why people are leaving-[Edit]but that would highlight all the crap management that they have, & show them up for the ar$e covering lamers they really are.

As it is, it's obvious they don't really give a to$$.


Merry Xmas ntl, another one bites the dust. :2up:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Hi Neil

I have just got of the phone to Pipex.

You were spot on. I actualy spoke to someone who was polite and actualy knew what he was talking about.

I am going to go for the business 1000 service with a fixed IP

Just have to wait one more month for my broadband to expire then its bye bye NTL

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Stuare-I never had any doubts that you would receive the sort of service you have described from Pipex.

You won't regret it. :tu:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Had tv,phone & broadband - eventually dropping one service at a time as I was fed up with the way certain problems I had were getting resolved i.e Customer service practically claiming I was making up the problems and doing nothing about them until I got help from both of the nthellworld site personnel. End of day:

Walked into dixons, got the freeserve connection box - 5 days later dsl was up and running - simple.

DSL actually seems more responsive when browsing - no time outs or intermittent delays retrieving web pages.

I exercised my consumer choices and walked.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

glad it worked out for you dropoffpoint :) the browser issues with ntl are their dns servers which they refuse to fix, It wouldnt surprise me that ntl rely on lack of adsl availability in certian areas and lack of knowledge from customers to provide them custom.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Give it a few days and you'll get a letter offering you free TV if you go back and take Talk24, and a few more days and you'll get a letter addressed to the occupier asking them to join Ntl because the previous occupier had it and cancelled recently.

What a joke Ntl are, they couldn't even get that right!

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I'm considering cancelling my broadband service as I now have a BT line installed.

What will happen to my ntlworld.com e-mail address? Would I still get access to it if I connect through webmail?

Thanks

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Good move-go for it. :tu:

It will just cease to exist unless you convert to a 'Pay as you go' account, & keep it active that way.

HTH.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

HOLD ON A SEC!

I wouldnt recommend cancelling your NTL account until you have placed your ADSL order and had it confirmed by a proper line test that the line is acceptable.

The broadband availability checker on the BT wont do an actual line test - so if your BT line isnt good enough to handle the ADSL signal you might get your ADSL order rejected. :shocking:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Good Piont etccarmageddon

Dont cancel your account until a line check has been done. !

Mind you if he rings NTL today I doubt they will cancel it until march :naughty:

I bet the billing system will carry on working corectly though :)

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Thanks

No I won't cancel NTL until I have a new service running.

I'm confident I can get a service though as my BT engineer friend installed the line for me, did all the checks and a few other 'tweaks' so I get the best possible service.

If it takes three months to cancel NTL as suggested then I'll downgrade the service until it ends.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

when you give NTL notice that you want to terminate your accounts if after the adsl survey (your not happy with the adsl speed offered) you can cancel the terminition and stay with NTL

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

NTL are not the best-value BB supplier.

Case example.
I have a ntl telephone line, analogue TV, internet, and BT unconnected line (from when I switched to ntl).

So, reconnecting to BT for free, and taking Plus.net £18.99, plus the modem costing £42, I get 500k download, 250k upload.

Staying with ntl, and taking ntl's 150k (172k actual) £17.99, I get 172k download. 64k upload.

So for £1 more (after initial £42 modem cost) from Plus.net, I get 2.9 times the download speed of ntl, 4 times the upload speed of ntl.

Plus.net is undoubtedly the better value-for-money in that price bracket, by about three times ntl.

Probably half of ntl are in a similar position to me. Roughly half have analogue, last I heard, and it's likely that most will have a BT line in place, ready for reconnection.

As customers become aware of the better ADSL value that can be had, you can see that ntl can potentially lose half of their customers.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I would also agree ntl are not the best value for money, I think the majority of people will want a phone line in their homes anyway, so the anology it doesn't need a phone line would only fit a minority of people, my phone bill on BT was cheaper, ADSL is better value than cable and lastly I would rather have sky digi over ntl analogue any day, the only thing keeping me an ntl customer is my landlord, I think ntl are only keeping a lot of customers becase their cabling is more attractive than a sattelite dish.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I would like to see where this was 'agreed' I have my old sky box and NTL and ntl is a better package in lots of ways

1) Premiership plus only £12 per year (£40+ on $ky)
2) NTL really quick to change packages and effect reduced costs straight away
3) No red dot on sky sports - as a supporter of www.logofreetv.org that is a big plus for NTL
4) You can customise your own menu to get channels in the order which you want
5) Overalll cheaper for the phone tv BB package so a good choice which works for me
Not to say I would not move. The lack of ability to use 3rd party phone sellers is a pain - and if sky dumped the red dot I could go back

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

sky is miles better than ntl
1) I don't watch sport
2)sky package changes are instant (non of this you will have to pay until the end of month)
3) No red dot on sky sports (because I don't watch it)
4) you can customise your on menus (favorites)
5)with sky, bt and adsl I get loads more movie channels and I am saving £6 a month. also the services work, which ntl's never did.
:D sky wins NTL suck :D

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

I assume you not one of the thousands of people stuck in an analogue only area that ntl refuse to upgrade yet charge the same money for, and I disagree on the cheaper part.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Especialy when you can get a 2Mbit ADSL service for the price of Ntl's 1Mbit :rofl: :rofl:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

1)Sorry but it is with sky you pay to the end of the month if you cancel something- with Ntl it happened straight away
2) 20 favorites and toggle thro' using the blue on sky versus actually organising them in the order you want - you are having a laugh
3) Ok the red dot is most annoying on sky sports- but it infests all $ky output because they are desparate to get you spending £400 pa
4) What 'loads more movie channels'- the same sky movie channels are on Ntl, the same film 4 and its channels and even the same tcm

I cant see how like for like you are saving anything if you have to pay bt's 9.50 line rental which is free with NTL (if you take tv)

As for the services work.. well the box crashes every now and then - but so do all three sky boxes I have had - other than that - you press the button and the red dot free picture emerges

NTL win easily ....for now

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Trouble is, if you dare to change your package you invoke the House elfs and dementors ( to borrow from Harry Potter) who work in accounts. They magic up some devilish computation which is meant to represent the proportion of the mths service you have used/what you need* however much they need to multiply it by to confuse even stephen hawking!

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

1) LOL you are joking, NTL wanted us to pay for the month after they came and collected the stb. with sky we just rang them and said remove the sports package and they did, it was gone. we spent 6 months trying to get NTL to remove a package. sky win that one no questions. :D

2) don't know about the 20 favorites I have not run out of slots in the personal planner yet.

3) the red dot has not annoyed me yet. where as NTL's red button never worked.

4) movie channels, we now have at least 12 (I ain't counted them all) we didn't have any with NTL except front row pay stuff. the sky tv package have does cost less than we were paying NTL.

when we had ntl tv. phone and broadband the bill was £80 a month when they could get it right, the phone was the only part that always worked as it should.
now got pipex, sky and BT
pipex £24 a month
sky £34 a month
bt £16 a month (payment plan)
total £74 a month, £6 cheaper than NTL and we get a service that works and includes a lot more channels and double the upload of ntl.

I don't care what you say this is my reality, sky win hands down :rofl:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

:tu: And you cant argue with that :D

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

And there was me thinking that this was a thread about ADSL......;)

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Could that've been cos you weren't subscribed to any movie channels?? :confused:

In your opinion... :)

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Ok-not having Sky (yet)-doesn't Sky have A) more exclusive channels that aren't available on cable?, & B) more channels-period?

I know it's a fairly complex business working out which is better value for money, & I've read the PR blurb by both ntl & Sky, & I'm still none the wiser!

*Goes off to put thinking cap on* :walk:

[Edit]-Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you take the top ntl package of channels (called Family Pack with Sports & Movies), it works out to £47.50 (including your phone line)

If you have the equivalent package from Sky, (called Sky World & Family Pack), you pay £40 per month (without a phone line for which you need to add £9.50 or thereabouts)

So....

Sky dish & BT phone line=£4 9.50 per month for top package (number of channels to be confirmed-"over 101 channels" according to website http://www.sky.com/skycom/article/0,...ml?CMP=IL21287 )

Top ntl DTV pack= £47.50 inc phone line (number of channels to be confirmed-ntl's 'Family Pack + Sport & Movies pack' includes ALL the Family Pack channels plus 15 Sky premium channels and 4 Disney channels)

So how many channels in ntl's 'Family Pack'? (as their website is less than clear- http://www.ntlhome.com/ntl_tv/premium.html ) :rolleyes:

So my guess would be that the extra £2.00 per month for Sky takes into account their recent price rise, whereas ntl have yet to announce theirs, plus it looks like you get more channels for the same money anyway.

Worth bearing in mind is that with Sky you get full interactive services (if that interests you), whereas with ntl all the red button does for most people is freeze the STB!), & also the [u]choice[/i] of Sky + (which is the hard disk recorder service that looks very tasty), but with ntl there is no choice.

I have tried to be objective here, but can't help thinking that ntl offer the inferior service for you £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£-or am I wrong?

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Yes on both counts Neil, but the only question regarding channels is which system has the channels that you want? Sky certainly has better interactive than NTL but the red spot can be a nuisance although you can get a red spot zapper to keep getting rid of it. The winner for me with Sky is SKY+ which definately alters the way that you watch TV and once sampled you wouldn't be without it. Yes, it does cost £200 to get it and have it installed (sometimes you may find special offers on this) but you don't get any video recorder for free and have to pay for other parts of your viewing such as the TV.

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

There's evem MORE shopping and travel channels on Sky..... :D

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Like you need either. ;)

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

True... :blush:

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

it is,pipex adsl is cheaper and better the broadband from ntl


yes it could be due to the fact we didn't have movie channels from NTL (they're to expensive) with sky we now get loads of movie channels for less money than we were paying NTL for non :rofl:

yes it is my opinion, it also happens to be true :D

Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....
 

Actually having proper interactive features makes up for this £2 fee. I would pay £2 extra just for having a fast and unannoying EPG to browse through. ntl's EPG is just crap; you can't cancel a reminder, it is slow as hell, press the red button and the box locks up for about 60 seconds or something, there is no iDTV content, the program guide is empty when browsing half the time, the EPG does not update the programme information (I frequently see 6 o'clock news on at 10pm at night), the static content there is is painfully slow and ugly, there is no facility to browse through the channels in a timetable like Sky, getting a full channel listing on ntl takes about 5 minutes, etc etc. The ntl DTV service is a joke, so the £2 seems negligable.

Not to mention ntl force you have a phone line when you may not want one.

</rant>

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But how much better value for money will Sky seem when ntl raise their prices too, & they are asking the same money for a clearly inferior product? :erm:

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Yes you can! ...:erm:

On Sky, I hate the fact that you have to go out of the program you're watching and into the programme menu to get info on shows other than the one currently being broadcast.....

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And are you getting all these Sky movie channels for free? Or are you paying for them? :rolleyes:

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errr :confused: no, we are getting all these movie channels plus all the stuff we use to have on NTL and whole lot more for less money than we used to pay NTL. is it so hard to come to terms with the fact that NTL are ripping people off
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

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No, just having abit of trouble deciphering the twaddle you're posting :)

You saying you didn't get any movies with ntl, but you do with sky so it's better value. But, you didn't pay for any movies with ntl, and you are with sky... :confused:.... :rolleyes:

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I am rather confused at this because by and large NTL and Sky usually have similar packages for the same price. The basic difference is that NTL insist on you having a telephone line with the TV package and charge £9.50 for this in the package charge. The telephone line is not free as some like to make out. Sky do have more channels in their packages, but not more premium channels. NTL are a ripoff in the telephone charges, mainly due to the 5p connection charge unlike BT which has a 5p minimum charge and other providers who have a lower connection charge or minimum charge. NTL for the moment are £2 cheaper on the TV packages as they have not as yet implemented the price increase that Sky introduced at the start of January.

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Hmm I must look for that feature!! :o
I must agree with you on that point, as that is the one annoying thing about Sky after having used ntl. But you soon get used to it, and because the Sky EPG is so quick it doesn't really matter. I'd much rather have Sky with this one minor annoyance than ntl DTV with many major problems. The ntl broadband is on the whole quite good, but then again I don't bother using the ntlworld e-mail. If only the TV was as good as the broadband. And the customer service...has even further to go than the TV.

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Don't quite understnad that, but the point I wanted to make about BT phone lines is quite important anyway. With a BT line you can choose which telco you want to use using CPS, which negates any costs of expensive phone calls. If you combine Sky Digital with a BT line and a carrier such as Onetel or Equitalk then the benefits are even clearer.

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Which is exactly the point I was making earlier. ;)

It's about giving the customer a choice, not telling them that they have to have an ntl phone lline with their cable TV packages-that's just rude & pretty much sums up ntl's attitude towards it's customers.

It comes down to choice & flexibility-what choice is there with Sky/BT (lots) & what choice is there with ntl? (very very little)

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Do I hear the beginnings of a ntl customer education program? :D

We should start printing flyers off and do letter drops with this basic information.

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as this is an ADSL thread, just as NTL force you to have a crappy phone line for their TV service.... perhaps I should point out that BT force you to have a phone line if you want ADSL but with NTL you have can have broadband without a phone line.

that's an area where NTL have an advantage. the people who want Broadband but dont want a home phone line.

I agree about the TV service but am shocked and disgusted :pp that this ADSL thread should be taken off topic to talk about NTL's crap TV service.

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You're right on both counts 'Etc', but with regards to ntl not forcing you to have a phone line with any of the BB packages (150k/600k/1 meg)-why do they force you to take it when you sign up for DTV??

Yet more left hand/right hand dross from the marketing monkies at ntl. :rolleyes:

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LOL, xDSL uses the phone line to transmit data so you could hardly expect to have XDSL without a phone line.

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Do Sky force you to have a Sky telephone line with their DTV product? (no)

Do ntl force you to have an ntl telephone line with their DTV product? (yes)

Simple-as I said earlier, it all comes down to choice-or in ntl's case, lack of it.

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ok I give up, you win, NTL are better value than sky. :wavey:

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ah yes but BT could supply a 'dead' phone line for those people who want ADSL without the phone service - if they wanted to.

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(my case)

1 - value for money
ntl analogue area, so paying 11.99 for phone line and basic channels, 9.50 for line rental on bt meaning I am paying 2.49 for channels that I rarely watch (this is analogue doesnt even come close to freeview), already 2.49 down. internet costs, I am paying 24.99 for 600kbit download and 128kbit upload, for the same price on ADSL I can have 512kbit download and 256kbit upload and a static ip address. lastly there is the 5p connection charge issue as well. Bt+sky win here
2 - customer service
ntl lack of service on sundays ****es me off truly, bt and sky and adsl isp service 24/7. Bt+sky win here
3 - choice
ntl have forced me to be only to pick from analogue tv options, whilst sky digital is available more or less everywhere, adsl has choice from dozens of providers and various different packages, obviously if closer to exchange limited to max 512kbit download but still the choice of providers. Bt+sky win here

take into account those people who dont even have digital, not only is sky superior against ntl digital but it wins hands down on ntl analogue.

also how much does the max tv package cost on ntl analogue anyone know? thanks.

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It would still cost BT money to supply a "dead" phone line so they are hardly going to supply and maintain this for free. The phone line would have to be live in order to use it for xDSL and you probably wouldn't choose BT to supply the xDSL service. BT (and NTL) charge £9.50 for the phone line rental so if you want xDSL you would have to pay for the line.

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Let's be honest & realistic here-how many people don't have a live working landline phone in their house??

I would say very few, so at the end of the day the vast majority off peeps will be better off without ntl as they are paying for a phone line anyway, so it may as well be a BT one (with caller I.D), with a nice reliable DSL package from a proper ISP that puts it's customers first, than with ntl who clearly don't give a to$$ about their customers, & who know that the only way to get customers to take their inferior phone line, is to force it upon people. :rolleyes:

Another nice piece of marketing ntl. :dozey:

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as a 'dead' phone line it's just a cable for your ADSL modem to connect you to the exchange. this should be covered in your monthly ADSL charge just as NTL supply a coax cable which connects your modem to your local UBR which is also absorbed into the cost of your monthly NTL broadband charge.


even if you get ADSL from an independent supplier, BT still get a slice of the money you pay the supplier for ADSL. except in LLU.

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The standard BT line rental is £9.50 (paid by direct debit) - £2.15 monthly off peak call allowance which means the line rental is cheaper than NTL's standard line rental because a BT standard line customer only pays £7.45.

Also not forgeting as a BT customer you can get BT Answer 1571 free messaging service

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And not forgetting the elusive (to ntl anyway) Caller I.D-I now have it on my BT phone line, & I must say I think it's a superb tool. :tu:

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Neil. you're starting to sound increasingly bitter... the phone line, bb and dtv was good enough when you got it for cheap, wasn't it? :(

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OB-:waving:

Phone line was fine (didn't really use it-as you know as it was cheaper for me to use my mobile)

BB was fine for me (have always said do) 3 outages in 3 years is 'A OK' in my book. :tu:

DTV was poor. Poor quality picture/engineers that couldn't fix it/red button that locked the box if I even thought about pressing it/poor program guide.

So 2 out of 3 isn't bad I suppose, but the main issue (as I have always said) was (for me, & I suspect a lot of other people) is that when I pick up the phone to speak to someone at ntl (& you were with me on a number of occaisions when this happened), is that I am greeted some idiot who tries to fob me off with his/her lame BS, because he/she finds it easier to BS a customer than to find out the real facts.

Also-I had already made plans to ditch my subsidised packaged from ntl, & (as I publicly stated on .com)-"I would rather have a decent service that I pay for, than a pi$$ poor one that I don't"

N. :kiss:

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Fair enough! :) :kiss:

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Neils post is right (as was mine) For top package $ky+bt is dearer than NTL digital, with more or less the same channels but without the nuisance of the red dot. Add in prem plus at only £12 a year Ntl is miles ahead if you like footy (ie the reason 90% of folk subscribe).

I am curious why people go for the $ky+ box tho'. It involves investing in seriously closed technology which only works with $ky, more and more DVD R and hard disk machines are on the market - and it is quite likely that a WIFI solution to connect your telly to your PC could be economic soon.(recording and playing from your hard drive configured your way- not Ruperts little lads way) in truth I don't record enough to justify $ky + and think there will be better open source options in the future

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Yes, at the moment NTL digital and phoneline is £2 dearer than Sky and BT for top package but no doubt NTL will raise their price to match in the next couple of months. Sky do have more channels in that top package than NTL but that is only important if you want to watch the extra channels. The one thing to note however is that when you add in the cost of telephone calls the Sky / BT package can work out cheaper depending on your calling pattern and call provider.

NTL are definately cheaper than Sky for the Premiership Plus package but your idea that 90% subscribe because of this is nonsensical. I had Premiership Plus when with NTL but have dropped this with Sky as it isn't that important to me at more than £1 a month.

You have to have used Sky+ for a couple of days to realise the potential of it and then you wouldn't be without it. It only costs £200 to have it and get it installed which isn't that much when you consider what most people spend on Audio Visual equipment. It is so easy to use and recordings are of the same standard as the original broadcast signal due to the way the signal is stored and replayed. With features like dual recording, live pause and instant rewing you have plenty of control and can even decide to record a programme that you are watching up to an hour after it has started and the recording is the whole programme from the start. What other system allows you to do that? Sky+ isn't just about recording though, it completely alters the way you watch TV and when you watch it. The other advantage of having Sky+ is that the mirror subscription for my second box only costs £10, unlike a second box with NTL that costs £15.

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I had Sky installed yesterday with a second box.

Would have loved Sky+ but the earliest install is the end of March!!!!! cant wait that long so I'll slum it.

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and how are all NTL lines inferior to all BT lines ?

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On my experience of two weeks,

CLI
1571
on-line billing info
on-line service changes that happen almost immediately

oh and they sound better and are cheaper and mean you dont have to deal with ntl

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ok so i got carried away, they sound the same but the rest is true

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on line account management including friends and family changing

caller display

ability to sign up to a cheap 3rd party such as talktalk for cheapo calls

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I dont blame neil for saying ntl was ok when he had it cheap, money talks and when you pay less for a service then what you expect of it drops.

All the people defending ntl still havent mentioned how poor value the analogue service is, that hussein guy still in charge who obviously has no clue how the internet works, the fact they have traffic limits in their AUP which they can start enforcing any time they like and when they do start enforcing them believe me ntl certianly will be no comparison to bt.