Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Is that why Hooky Hamza is in court right now?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Watching abit about this at 1am this morning on news 24, one of the blokes said that some muslims (NOT all some) have been shouting how discusting this is to pulblish the cartoons, and yet, the same people are saying that Isreal and Jews should be wiped of the map.

In there opinion double standard

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Is a little respect for other peoples religion really that much to ask? Maybe if we are so worried about muslims forming there own communities and excluding others we should stop being hostile to them and treating them with such little respect.

We are going to force muslims to be outsiders if we are not careful

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

How many years did it take the police to take action ? These protesters are openly showing there evil thoughts on these banners if it was anyone else they'd be arrested

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Some might argue that they already are, to an extent.

If Islam is so much at odds with Western European attitudes and laws, then aren't they 'outsiders' by default?

And this situation will remain until either Muslims adapt Islam to fit their countries of residence, or these countries choose to abandon their hard won rights, freedoms and laws in favour of Islamic restrictions. Somehow, I don't see the latter happening in a hurry.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I agree but religon has caused more wars than land has, so I doubt that everybody will ever respect all religions.

Personally I care what religion people worship (I don't mean to insult anybody), as long as I'm not having people knocking on my door saying I should joint them.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Perhaps it’s because they brainwash the children from birth and they grow up knowing nothing else?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Unfortunately there is a double standard in the Muslim press which frequently publishes derogatory caroons about the Jews.

Yes I do think this has been an extreem over reaction by a few muslims who it appears are almost spoiling for a fight using any excuse to create a furore. Thus a few can now dictate to the rest of Europe by threat of violence. These few will cause moderate reasonable muslims problems when they try to go about their daily lives simply because of the dissproportionate coverage the press gives them and the ensuing bad feeling it will create.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The words "Mountain" and "Molehill" come to mind, but who am i to say, i'm just an Infedel ;)

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

IMHO these images should not have been published and most certainly should not have been re-published to demonstrate freedom of speech.

The conflict between Islam and 'liberalism' (read capitalism) is, IMO, on the brink of a great disaster. The radical elements on both sides (al-Qaeda on theirs and the 'media' on ours) have already started rattling their sabres and are stiring the masses. For goodness sake, stop now before it's too late.

I've travelled enough to know that, at times, there is simply a clash of cultures. No one is right and no one is wrong. There are just different ways of looking at things and we have to work hard to get along.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think there is a HUGE difference between Al-qaeda and the western media, the sun newspaper has never killed 3000 people in one go :rolleyes:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think there's a word or 2 missing there in error was it 'smoke a' and 'with'? :p:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

There is indeed a clash of cultures, but freedom of speech is a fundamental human right which should not be quashed because some people do not like what the media publishes. If Muslims don't like the western culture of free speech, then they are quite free to return to their own culture. And no that is NOT a racist comment, I happy live side by side with Muslim people in Toronto, one of the most diverse cities in the world, and am happy to continue as long as they do not try and dictate what I can and can't read in my own culture. In fact, I have several Muslim friends who are great people.

Unfortunately and sadly the reaction of a few fundamentalists only serves to strengthen the untrue sterotype portrayed in the cartoons. Wow, some French paper offended me, I am going to take hostage some EU buildings and stand outside firing rifles into the air and threatening to take their staff hostage. How lame.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Again reading on this it seems that muslims are in uproar over a cartoon.

In such an uproar they are attacking innocent christians in the middle east.

Now call me silly, but isnt one of the reasons muslims are feared, loathed or whatever is because of the tendancy to extreme politics and violence?
Not exactly endearing their religion is it to go on the war path burning the flags of just about every country in the world.

The danish gov are right not to censor the press, if they start now they will never be able to stop.
Its time that muslims learned that the rest of the world will NOT pander to their demands that are not in keeping with OUR traditions.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Here's an interesting comment which we can discuss:

and

One wonders what exactly the Muslim religion stands for when comments like this are made. Clearly comments like this are not reflective of Muslims as a whole, but it is interesting that radicals like this are not locked up. Isn't it an offence to threaten to kill someone?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I'm not racist, but that takes the pee, kill a person for a drawing ?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

People, sorry it took so long, but here is what we have to say about CF and the cartoons:

We wish to allow discussion of the cartoons and the political background to the furore surrounding them. However we do not wish to cause gratuitous offence.

Therefore, links to pages that display the cartoons and give some context for them are acceptable. Links direct to .jpg or .gif files are not acceptable. No images of any kind may be incorporated in any posts in this thread.

Please note this is a moderating decision, so usual rules apply: Don't discuss it in the thread, if you wish to say something, please PM one of us.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Cool :D

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Have you ever watched MTV?

Now imagine you live in a culture (and there are many) where, outside the home, the women are covered from shoulder to toe and you see that sort of stuff beamed at you from the States. Then you see how the kids are hooked up by it and start adopting the styles and language. So if you're a bit older then, unlike in the West, you're not going to see it as some harmless pop channel for kids. You might get fired up and angry.

Then remember how cheap life is in some of these places. Where people lead a hand to mouth existance with little property to their name.

Is it really surprising that they fight back in the way they do?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

yes i do find it suprising, if they cant handle it, bog off back!

We live in a western culture, there is no way we should change just for them.
Like it or lump it.



Ps. congrats on the quiz :)

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think i will just give up, i'm going to eat part of a cow now, yum yum :D

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

If we kept our culture to ourselves then that would be fine - but we don't. One of the fundamental premises of capitalism is finding new (and easy) markets. The last time we were in Romania our friend, Valentine, insisted on taking us to their new McDonalds restaurant - they are vitually everywhere. And these days news is practically instant and global.

Ask an American and I guess he couldn't see anything wrong with this. But, having had a few wars in our own back yard, we Europeans are a little more used to rubbing along with our neighbours. Trouble is, we all have short memories and these Yanks are kinda persuasive aren't they.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I don't think its a question of changing, more of consideration. It is ironic, however, that some people who have fled to the west from an oppressed culture complain about freedom of press.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think i'll leave this thread, before i get to wound up :wavey:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

My opinion on Islam hasn't change. I've never thought it compatible with western values I don't know any other culture that cause's so much trouble

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

MTV is part of the western culture - if you dont like what you see on it then it's the same as complaining you dont like what you see on a TV channel of another culture. You dont involve yourself if you dont like what you see.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The only people that will do well out of this are flag maker's. I see the U.S. and Britain were full of condemnation for publishing the cartoons, so it's alright (rightly/wrongly) to bomb thousand's of muslim's and invade their countries but under no circumstances must you poke fun at them, is it just me or should we have kept our mouth's firmly shut on this one.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

If they have decided to live in the nice safe free speech West then they should just stfu if the West's freedom of speech allows for a sense of humour. :upyours:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I could hazard a guess or two as to who finds Jesus posts offensive but i'll let you do the detective work ;)

As for "binge drinking" that is a problem within our culture and one that is being addressed nationally. I fail to see how much damage has been made by a few ****heads to that done by religious fanatics who blow buildings/tubes/buses up? As we face face up to the problems in our culture i see no reason why others shouldn't address there own.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Shabba, with all due respect.

Are you aware of the death by drink driving statistics for the UK in comparison to the death by blowing up buildings/tubes/buses statistics?

No? Thought not.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The problem of drink driving has been addressed and some measures have been made to help reduce the numbers involved. There is no way that you can prevent death by fanatics from other cultures that integrate into our society.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

This might come as a shock - but the fact of the matter is that many of the fanatics that you refer to actually form the very fabric of what you refer to as "our society".

It's this siege mentality of "our society" which causes a lot of the problems we see today. Many, if not the vast majority, of those protesters in London were british born and bred and, as such, have the same rights as any other british citizen should they elect to exercise them, be that freedom of speech or whatever.

Throughout time britain has colonized and occupied many many countries across the world. The colonial mentality was fine - let's teach them english, lets educate them etc etc. Why in God's name anyone would be surprised when second and third generation citizens of colonized countries decided to come and settle in what they perceive, and indeed were led to believe, to be the civilized centre of the universe is beyond comprehension.

The term "you will reap what you sow" is perhaps the best analogy as far as immigrant numbers are concerned. There are far too many issues and questions to be raised and addressed as far as a multicultural, multiethnic society in britain is concerned.

Of course blowing things up isn't the answer, calling for beheadings isn't the answer, 9/11 wasn't the answer but neither is going to war against a country, and ultimately a religion, on the basis of flawed intelligence. Until the tabloid press and the more radical non / anti muslim members of "our society" realize that tarring all muslims with the same brush as a few fanatics is tantamount to inviting them to blow things up - then I'm afraid that's how it will remain.

Anyone for a group hug?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Yes to free a country from a dictator they killed hundreds of thousands of his own people was wrong :rolleyes: Oh you forgot to mention how many people the suicide bombers have killed many of which dont even live in Iraq

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

According to a timeline on the BBC website these pictures were published on the 30 sept 2005.

I begining to think it now an excuse to protest.

As far as i'm aware NO other group would want to kill/blow up anybody who offends there religion.

Look at the film 'Life of Brian' its was banned by the chathlic church, it caused a lot of trouble but as far as I know no one was threatened with death.

Also some muslim group was to wipe out all jews, double standards.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

still not one arrest and noticed Skynews doing everything they can to look the other way and give excuses for them

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think the majority on both sides is mature enough to deal with this situation in an adult manner which is why there are not more of our homegrown Muslims out protesting OR rioting over this issue.It has been realised that these images are offensive and so are not being reproduced by our press.We are trying to get along as a multifaith,multicultural society.

It is the case that we didn't always show such courtesy,understanding and tact.Catholics,Prostetants and Jews have known and seen the very worst that an arrogant Christian society can produce but now we accept that others have a RIGHT to follow their religion,faith and culture provided it doesn't undermine our own society.I think we are mature enough as a society to realise that a little understanding,compassion and empathy can go a long way towards maintaining a united society.Just as long as we DON'T lose the plot now.

Anyway I cannot see why these cartoons were even deemed worth showing.They are not even funny or particularly satirical.They are childish and pander to the very worst elements and do not ILLUMINATE any particular irony of difference between Musilms and the rest of the world.Assuming that the cartoons I've seen are the ones that are those that were published.From what I can gather there are a set of OTHER cartoons that were shown around the net which were purported to have been the ones published but in fact were not.It would seem that if this is the case someone, somewhere is trying to milk the situation to their own advantage and for their own reasons.If so this is the group we should all be getting annoyed about and directing any ire at.


Incog.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I see all the people on here and on the news giving their opinions about wether we should or should not print these cartoons.

But has anybody noticed the slogns that are on the protestors placards?

Stuff like "Kill all non belivers" and "Eurpoe, you will all come crawling when the Mujahadeen come roaring" (BBC Website from a protest IN LONDON)

Personally, and i dont know about you on this one, but if these idiots are allowed to continue with this stuff then as afar as im concerned my tolerance is fast disappearing and my stance is changing.

The problem is that there are a lot of good muslims out there, but these same people now have to make a choice and start to rein these idiots in.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2006/02/17.jpg

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think that they want people to be outraged & polarise opinion, then they can be 'justified' in escalating their 'protest'. My instinct at this point is to step back, not retaliate, & let them tire themselves out.

In the meantime, yes, I would expect pressure to be brought to bear from within their own commuity to get them to calm down.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Yes they have a right to protest. But not threaten to kill.

Those people who hide there faces should all be arrested.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

STOP, since you seem to be so besotted with the publication of these cartoons why don't you find / use some webspace and publish them?

Who exactly is your criticism aimed at? Are you aiming at the protesters for exercising their freedom of speech, the police for their current obeyance of the law or the press / media for their unwillingness to do what you yourself are quite capable of doing?

Homealone is right. There are those in the muslim community who are better placed to calm the situation in a sensible and sensitive fashion.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Seen them at Digitalspy it has a thread with the link (yes a lefty site like that)

Freedom of speech are you extracting the urine. Freedom of speech is fine no one has a problem with that apart from Muslims. They have banners with "Massacre those who insult islam", "new 7/7 attacks", "I Love al-Qaeda", "Whoever insults a prophet, kill him", "Britain you will pay †� 7/7 is on its way", "Behead those who insult Islam", "Europe †� take some lessons from 9-11", "Europe you will pay", "UK go to hell"

and your favorite "Free speech go to hell"


Is that what you dont like me criticising Mr Angry :mad:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think they do, I saw people covering their faces on the anti-war marches being arrested.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

For the record, I don't have an issue with you criticizing anything. I was simply asking for some clarification.

Where do you draw the line though?

If, as you say, "Freedom of speech is fine" then it has to be equally applied. There is no such thing as "good" or "bad" freedom of speech and you cannot cherry pick.

Freedom of speech is, last time I checked, a fundamental right in Britain. That you, I or anyone else might disagree with the placards and the expressions thereon is irrelevant to the freedom of speech argument - unless it comes down to a "do we or don't we allow freedom of speech" debate. Currently we do.

The unfortunate thing about Freedom of speech, as we are witnessing now, is that it's very much a case of "If you can't take it then don't dish it out."

Peace out.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Whoever we are
Wherever weâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢re from
We shoulda noticed by now
Our behavior is dumb
And if our chances
Expect to improve
Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s gonna take a lot more
Than tryinââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ to remove
The other race
Or the other whatever
From the face
Of the planet altogether

They call it the earth
Which is a dumb kinda name
But they named it right
†™cause we behave the same...
We are dumb all over
Dumb all over,
Yes we are
Dumb all over,
Near †™n far
Dumb all over,
Black †™n white
People, we is not wrapped tight

Nurds on the left
Nurds on the right
Religous fanatics
On the air every night
Sayinââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ the bible
Tells the story
Makes the details
Sound real gory
†™bout what to do
If the geeks over there
Donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t believe in the book
We got over here

You canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t run a race
Without no feet
†™n pretty soon
There wonââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t be no street
For dummies to jog on
Or doggies to dog on
Religous fanatics
Can make it be all gone
(I mean it wonââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t blow up
†™n disappear
Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ll just look ugly
For a thousand years...)

You canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t run a country
By a book of religion
Not by a heap
Or a lump or a smidgeon
Of foolish rules
Of ancient date
Designed to make
You all feel great
While you fold, spindle
And mutilate
Those unbelievers
From a neighboring state

To arms! to arms!
Hooray! thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s great
Two legs ainââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t bad
Unless thereââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s a crate
They ship the parts
To mama in
For souvenirs: two ears (get down!)
Not his, not hers, (but what the hey? )
The good book says:
(it gotta be that way!)
But their book says:
Revenge the crusades...
With whips †™n chains
†™n hand grenades...
Two arms? two arms?
Have another and another
Our God says:
There ainââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t no other!
Our God says
Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s all okay!
Our God says
This is the way!

It says in the book:
Burn †™n destroy...
†™n repent, †™n redeem
†™n revenge, †™n deploy
†™n rumble thee forth
To the land of the unbelieving **** on the other side
†™cause they donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t go for whatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s in the book
†™n that makes †™em bad
So verily we must choppeth them up
And stompeth them down
Or rent a nice french bomb
To poof them out of existance
While leaving their real estate just where we need it
To use again
For temples in which to praise our god
(cause he can really take care of business!)

And when his humble tv servant
With humble white hair
And humble glasses
And a nice brown suit
And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls
Tells us our God says
Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s okay to do this stuff
Then we gotta do it,
†™cause if we donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t do it,
We ainââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t gwine up to hebbin!
(depending on which book youââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢re using at the
Time...canââ ¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t use theirs... it donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t work
...itââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s all lies...gotta use mine...)
Ainââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t that right?
Thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s what they say
Every night...
Every day...
Hey, we canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t really be dumb
If weââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢re just following godââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s orders
Hey, letââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s get serious...
God knows what heâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s doinââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢
He wrote this book here
Anâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ the book says:
He made us all to be just like him,
So...
If weâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢re dumb...
Then God is dumb...
(anââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ maybe even a little ugly on the side)

Says it all for me.

Lyrics by Frank Zappa

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

"Behead those who insult islam" is provocation, which is not allowed.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I'm pretty sure the majority of muslims work for their money and therefore food, and so the country doesn't feed them any more than it does the next man.

I think the worst thing about this whole affair, is that extremists are popping up, with these stupid placards, and because of this, the BNP are going to be seeing a lot of new faces.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Kliro & STOP.

I'm not defending anyone here but I think we all have to assume, offensive though the placards may be, that if no one is being, has been, or is arrested then by that logic the police are content that no laws are being broken.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Or perhaps they are just exercising a stand back position while its no more than waving some placards, I mean if some offence is going to be taken over some crappy drawings then what offence would be taken when some protestors who may well be over stepping the mark got arrested ?

Oh and I have not seen any of these cartons, I am guessing because I havnt gone looking for them, so they cant be that big a news, what can be seen with out a doubt is the furore following it up.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Spot on IMO, police are taking pictures, and videoing - they can and will go round and tell your neighbours and employers what you have been doing, and can also arrest you with this video evidence after the event, I'm not sure what happens to those wearing face covering headwear though.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Have you been following the news most are covering there faces. Give you two clues as to why

Ps latest news they have set fire to a Danish embassy

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...211365,00.html

EDIT: Norwegian one too now

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

You're worrying about this?

Some of the literature on those placards:

"Massacre those who insult islam", "new 7/7 attacks", "I Love al-Qaeda", "Whoever insults a prophet, kill him", "Britain you will pay — 7/7 is on its way", "Behead those who insult Islam", "Europe — take some lessons from 9-11", "Europe you will pay", "UK go to hell"

Seriously. The BNP are nothing compared to the people in those protests yesterday.

---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------

And the BNP have been dragged through the courts for saying that 'Islam is a vicious faith', and what happened to people who created these threatening, disturbing, violent placards yesterday? Absolutely nothing.
I never argue in favour of the BNP, but there are huge double standards here.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The point that really should be questioned is why and how has some crappy cartoon strip in a small poxy national paper of one country which apparently printed them almost 6 months ago suddenly been blown up into an international crisis ?
The fuel for the fire has to have come from somewhere, so how long has these protests been in the planning ?
If its just some recent spontaious thing then how come its took so long after the alleged offence took place ?
If the protests have been in the planning for a while then there may well be a reason for them to be coming about in the last few days ?
I highly doubt theres many copies in circualtion today of the issues of these offending cartoons, if they are from last September as most just bin the daily papers they get on a day by day or week by week basis.

I can only think of one possible reason why such public protests regarding this issue, containing anti west statements is, and that is to promote as much anti west as possible among the Islamic population and promote as much as possible anti Islam among the west.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Well we can see that you are not in the mature and adult majority.

And why you quoted me and gave this response has confused the hell out of me.It has nothing to do with what I said.You are equal to those hotheads in the Muslim community who are pushing this issue from the oposite side.Thankfully they are a minority as are you.Out to make trouble no matter what.

Which in light of your err removal request at being busted elsewhere just underlines that you were out to make trouble.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

what we have to remember here is that muslims can say what they want.


If I walked the streets with a placard saying death to muslims I would be done for inciting racial hatred.

Further proof that the race laws in this country a nothing but a ****ing joke.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The end result will be bloodshed, as long as the government applies different rules to different cultures things will continue to boil until the inevitable happens.

I am "not" a supporter of the BNP even if I do agree with "some" of their views. I do however disagree with the way the government/police look the other way in these incidents, but would not do the same for a group of BNP supporters doing the same. I think the actions of these protesters cannot be tolerated, the end result without any doubt will be more people supporting the BNP.

These protesters are using a few cartoons of very little significance as an excuse to "incite racial voilence" their actions will take our society back to the racist attitudes of the 60s,70's and 80's. Much has improved towards equality, acceptance and tolerance of other cultures and religions, to let these protestors carry on will only demolish all that has been achieved over the years in this country.

I have always held the view that trouble would brew in years to come as governments have bowed down and been to lenient to other cultures living here whilst not giving the same treatment to the long term citizens, I think however the actions of these protestors and the like will bring trouble much sooner.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

There is another downside for the police witnessing and not taking action regards such protests as these where hatred does appear to be incited, they could well be used in defence for appeals on convitions allready made under these or similar laws or for the grounds for dismissal of current and future cases.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

"I have always held the view that trouble would brew in years to come as governments have bowed down and been to lenient to other cultures living here whilst not giving the same treatment to the long term citizens, I think however the actions of these protestors and the like will bring trouble much sooner."

This illustrates a point I made in my earlier post. For the purposes of my analogy let's assume that you are white, were born in and still live in London and consider yourself to be a "long term citizen".

What distinction is there between you and a muslim of coloured skin exactly the same age as you born, say for example, in Birmingham that makes you a "long term citizen" and him not?

Before any MODs kneejerk and delete this I'd like to state that this is not an attack on the poster who made the original comment, nor am I trying to "start trouble" or "offend" anyone. I just want to know what the definition of a "long term citizen" is and I feel that this is a crucial element of this discussion.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I wasnt going to post, but that is so true :tu:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

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Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

That Enoch bloke was bang on then.......

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

:rofl:

Nice one.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I take no offence at you commenting on my post.

I suppose I am really trying to say a long term citizen as one who follows the traditions and laws of this country. I feel that the small minority of muslims who are causing these problems are second and third generation muslims who were born in this country. I would certainly hope they are not people who have chosen to come here on their own free will, that may sound like a "send them back" attitude, but I honestly believe that you must live and abide by the rules of the country if you are visiting or living there. There are countries I would never visit because I disagree with their rules, if however I visited and caused a protest I would probably be locked up for not following the rules. This country is a fairly easy going one, and we allow almost anyone to come here and we seem to bend the rules to suit them.

All I expect in this country is equal treatment for all, protestors should be treated the same if they are black, white, christian, muslim, etc etc.
We must stop pussy footing around and apply the same rules to all.

These protestors can not surely be that annoyed about some cartoons in this day and age, this is just an excuse by a minority to cause trouble.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Escapee, I agree.

Regarding the cartoons, I can't help thinking that if the Muslims had not made such a fuss, then the cartoons would have faded into obscurity.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

yep, surely the bottom line is that in this and some other western countries we have a sense of humour that pokes fun at one another. Who in the west would make a fuss if they published cartoons poking fun etc at us!

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Even the Jewish ppl laugh at themselves all the time (I know I do ;) ). It's high time that Muslims learnt to have a sense of humor!

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Many thanks for that.

Your "I honestly believe that you must live and abide by the rules of the country if you are visiting or living there" statement is absolutely spot on.

On the issue of the cartoons. Unfortunately (and I'm saying this as a non-muslim) I don't feel qualified to state whether they are offensive or not because I do not subscribe to or practise their faith.

In reality I don't think it's up to or appropriate for non muslims to determine what does and doesn't offend muslims - we / they are ill placed to do so. Humour, satire and political humour are very western traits. This does not, however, legitimize the actions of some of the protesters.

Tolerance and understanding are key to this core issue of mutual respect. I recently posted a satirical post on another thread, prior to the start of this thread, which was removed because the MODs thought it "might cause offence and trouble". The fact that it contained the name of the son of God in the title deemed it, according to one poster, to be "insulting to Jesus".

This goes to show that even a written, obviously satirical, message drafted by a "westerner" can be interpreted as insensitive to other westerners whereas practitioners of an alternative religion might find no harm in the statement - if you know where I'm coming from.

Anyway, thanks for your reasoned, mature and logical reply - it is very much appreciated.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Ahem...they may be 'British born' but they are definitely 'British bred'. The only thing that makes these objectionable, rabble rousing, proto suicide bombers British is their passports. They don't want to be British, they (seem to) hate the white/anglo saxon/non-muslim British (and all that they stand for) and won't rest till they are either converted or dead. It is an oft stated aim of theirs that they won't rest till Europe (and the world) is Muslim.....well f*ck them....I don't even like Christianity, let alone Islam! :upyours:
The British have let a cancer grow in their society, complacency and woolly liberal thinking has nurtured it.
ffs......the police didn't even make any arrests at yesterdays demonstrations even though there were many clear cases of incitement to violence.
If I went to the same spot tomorrow and held up a banner proclaiming that muslims who insulted Jesus should be massacred I would be arrested!:dozey:

/rant over/

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I notice the only person that the tv station's showed the police speaking to was a white man shouting at the mob, he got moved on with the threat of arrest for breach of the peace!

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Its great that other countries & press are uniting against Islam and re-printing the article. Muslims will realise they can't boycott everyone. Hopefully they'll learn to behave like reasonable people.

Islam is by and away the most extreme religion. It has the most restrictions and condititions and breeds the most devotion in its followers. It is blasphemy & illegal to make an image of God but in loads of TV programs we see an image of God - we don't see violent retribution from Christians. A Danish food company is being forced out of business because of what a Danish newspaper has done. Fair? And now embassies are being stormed and set on fire. They aren't doing themselves any favours here.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

"The only thing that makes these objectionable, rabble rousing, proto suicide bombers British is their passports."

You're quite the liberal, aren't you?

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Come on, he has got a point that hook handed preacher said that living in this country was like living in a toilet, well if he hates us so much he can go back to his Afgan cave and take the rest of the hate brigade back with him, we could even have a whip round to help send them on their way.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I suspect excuse may well be close to the mark as these cartoons were published some months ago and nothing, I really suspect its more like a show for some other reason, one will have to guess at what, and these cartoons were about, so an easy scapegoat for the real reason behind these demonstrations. Whatever the real reason, the people who began it probably felt it wasnt a wise cause to shout about, and found something pretty measly and pathetic to get the masses wound up over instead.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

if we allow these morons to hold placards saying 'wipe out all non muslims' or whatever crap then this message is promoting more tube attacks and the like. all those **** bags should have been arrested, DNA samples taken and then locked up.

---------- Post added at 10:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

farce

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/stor...ws/news3.shtml

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Just been reading this article..Maybe it will give an insight to those like me who came late into this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/4677976.stm

I also thought this was interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4680948.stm

And how mealy mouthed some leaders can be in their comments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4674570.stm

:shrug:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Detained under the prevention of terrorism act.

It has irked me more that the police are only contemplating arresting the people who openly defied our laws and standards.
I dont care what religion colour or sex you are, you abide by our laws.

Had that been a BNP rally the riot police would have waded in batons drawn and hell bent on causing massive disturbances.
Look at how the respected British police attacked the travellers at stone henge, they werent even protesting, but a group of minorities does somehting like this and they are terrified of being branded racist for upholding our laws.

Its no wonder theres simmering racial tension on some of the streets in the UK, there are those that currently are fairly placid, but if the muslim fanatics want to stir up a race war, it wont be long before ALL our streets are a battle ground.

Freedom of speach allows the muslims to do their protest but that same freedom allows newspapers to print their views on isuues surrounding the islamic faith, and if these people dont like mohammed being labelled a terrorist, perhaps its time for them to stop terror tacticis and being murderous hypocrites.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Yup, I remember grannies being arrested and dragged away at Brightlingsea for protesting about veal exports, I remember poll tax protesters being hit with batons in Trafalguar Square.......so how come we can have muslim race hate banners paraded with impunity, muslims dressed as suicide bombers, calling for more bombings.....and the only arrest made there was of a European man who was distributing cartoons......I am disgusted at our politicians and our police.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

There seems to be only one political party that can re-dress the rights of the sensible thinking Brits. Unfortunately the mainstream parties have made it look like it's an offense to even express opinions. As Rolf said "can y' giss what it is yit"

I must add (before i get shot and banned) i have never voted for the BNP.

But if things carry on the way they are doing then i'll sign up.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I have been taken to task about this posting because apparently I didn't provide an opinion.Wish they had PM'd me about it though.:rolleyes:

As I've already posted my opinions in this thread and they haven't changed I saw no reason not to.Plus I provided the above as a means of perhaps allowing people to maybe re-evaluate what they think they know.I know it helped me.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

The thing about the UK protests is that all the Muslims are coming out, saying: "Its good the police didn't get involved because it would have escalated the situation/turned it violent". That isn't good in my mind... its blackmail. Had the police enforced the rule of law, the protesters would have turned violent, so the police were forced to let it go. I don't accept blackmail, if it was me i'd have sent in the army. The rule of law must be enforced at all costs regardless of who is threatening/blackmailing it.

This situation has been threatening to kick off for years, it just needed someone to draw the battle lines. It originally started off (that the BBC article never mentioned) because an author was unabled to find someone to draw a picture a picture of Mohammed for a children's book he wrote. Everyone was too afraid of confronting Muslims. Nevermind that Christians and Jews have tolerated this for years. The Danish newspaper commission the drawings to make a point that sooner or later Muslims will have to come in line with the rest of the civilised world. Its never been about breaking the law with religious tolerance, its never even got that far. Noone wants to back down. If the newspaper backs down, they know that noone would be able to comment on Islam without fear of backlash. If Muslims back down, they know Islam will not hold its currently untouchable position of reverence, and be classed equal to other religions like Christianity.

Some of the cartoons can be called offensive, but they would have been just as offensive had they been regular portraits of Mohammed. Muslims know this which is why many are confronting free speech (i.e. "Free speech: go to hell"), with lots of irony laid on top.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Thats not true......to be fair, a few muslim groups here have condemned the protests.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Well this is a fine pickle !! :dozey:

This Government must hardly know which butt cheek to offer up next. :rolleyes:

What with the race hate legislation and now the religious hate legislation, they must really think we hate those suckers !! ;)

Anyway ... I have the solution .... we all convert to Islam, send the women off to "Burka at M&S" and then we can all concentrate on the "Let's hate the Jews" 'fest. :disturbd:

Lets face it those guys really know how to win friends and influence people ! :rolleyes:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Yeah, but it got me thinking.

I was reviewing this thread to see what had been added over the w/e. (For some reason best known to myself I usually start at the end and work backwards. lol)

So, by the time I got to it, I'd have read any comment on it - yours seems to have been the first and only one.

I was even more surprised to see the cartoon still in the thread - did the MODs miss this one? (BTW - That's NOT a complaint, and NO, I do NOT want to see it removed!)

Because, tell me, what is the difference between the cartoon in this thread and the ones we've been discussing?

This cartoon shows a picture of a human-like figure, and it even has a helpful tag to point out who the figure is supposed to be. So we have a caricature of Mr. M, and the suggestion that the child who drew it should be slain for having done so. So we've satirised the Islamic opinion AND also caricatured Mr. M.
Yet, not a single complaint, from anyone.

Anyway, that's fine by me.

---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 ----------

One of the papers even mentioned imams going out to try and quell the violence.

Seems they don't get listened to when they're promoting peace, then.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Drawing pictures/cartoons of someone who has never had a photograph taken of themselves throughtout their livelyhood will stir up emotions from people, especially their followers. To make matters even worse he was made to look like a terrorist. Yes Islam does say not to fight start wars etc but then again you will always get the sour apples in every religion.

How would people of reacted if that same picture had been made by a muslim/asian person showing Jesus, Guru Nanak, Rama-Sita etc instaed??


PHILIPPE DOUSTE-BLAZY, French Foreign Minister

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2006/02/10.gif The principle of freedom should be exercised in a spirit of tolerance, respect of beliefs, respect of religions, which is the very basis of secularism of our country. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2006/02/11.gif


How can the French say that when they banned all religeous symbols from schools!! Now thats double standards in itself.

I also do not condone the violence regarding this matter and hate to kill signs should be removed asap from anyone and the person removed from the protest.

Just my 2 pence worth.... from a british muslim

regards
wakar

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Possible anger, outrage, disappointment, but highly unlikely to be waving signs saying "Behead all those who mock Jesus".

I doubt you'd find a nun wearing a mocked-up suicide vest.

Unfortunately we live in a society were people find it acceptable (and sometimes even funny) to make fun of people's beliefs. The best advice I can give any muslims offended by the cartoon is to catch up with Christians, Jews etc who are a little more thick-skinned or so it would appear.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Well in the case of the two Jordanian editors who did print the cartoons in Muslim papers in Jordan who were arrested I think we might have the reason why some moderate Muslim voices are not being heard across the world.

However I note that

Quote:

Lebanon's interior minister has quit after protesters sacked Beirut's Danish embassy in more ructions over cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4684250.stm

So some moderates are being counted..

I also thought that this article might make the confusion about WHY there is such confusion as to how the cartoons are offensive, a little clearer
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4678220.stm

At least in this country the numbers involved in protesting have been low and non violent(apart from the placard carriers and flag burners).I think the moderates on both sides are holding firm and not getting involved too much beyond condemning the violence and not insisting that we MUST see these cartoons.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Everyone condemned the protests, but most have said its good the police didn't get involved and enflame the situation. That Bungawunga bloke from the MCB said that on Al-Jazeera UK (Channel 4 news) last night.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

as far as I'm concerned the 'protestors' and the printing of the cartoons are seperate issues and should not be connected.

there was a muslim 'spokesman' on the radio news this morning condeming the protestors but saying that printing the cartoons had given extremists an 'opportunity' and that the situation should be defused by the media appolgising for offending the religion. I say get stuffed, if you'd been holding signs saying 'your 9/11 will come' 'behead traitors' and all that crap they you need to be locked up. pitty they didnt 'protest' in late july of last year - then they would have had their backsides kicked.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

That's an over-generalisation that apparently ONLY applies to Islam. Furthermore, I don't think photography had been invented in Mr M's time, so that point is moot too.

Personally, I think that the dogmatic leap to go from considering any image of God/Prophet as not matching their glory, to making is a capital offence is rather a big one.

I don't accept the notion that the faith of Islam is in any way damaged by these images, unlike the ones in the media over recent days, which have damaged Islam greatly, possibly irrevocably.
This is where Muslims are failing to understand the meaning of satire. The terrorism being referred to IS clearly inspired by the terrorists' idea of what Islam is about. The terrorism is perpetrated with direct reference to the religion of Islam, by the terrorists - it is THEY who made the connection in the first place, so why is it so terrible when other do?
As there are in many religions, yet the 'few' extremists that people say are doing all the protesting seem to number quite highly in some places.

And I also think there is a big difference between a few 'sour apples', and large crowds of madmen baying for death and attacking and burning buildings.
Nothing like anything we've seen recently, if any response had been made at all. You'd have to cross the boundaries of decency a LONG way before we'd get anything like as worked up about it.
Nonsense. The ban on religious symbols extends to all faiths, and isn't an attack on any faith. Again, it's mostly the Muslims that had to go make a big issue out of it, including more of the 'sour apples' being rather extreme.

The picture I get is that if Muslims/Islam chooses to be offended by anything, then the standard response is to burn the offending object, if possible, or else burn an effigy of the offending person (I'm sure they'd burn the actual person, given a chance), and usually accompanied by violence from people who more often than not hide their faces, since they KNOW that what they are doing is nothing but wanton violence and criminal in almost every country they do it.

Now we're seeing attacks on persons and property in no way directly responsible for the alledged offence caused. That is religious/racial hatred - something the Muslims complain about plenty. I believe this demonstrates that Islam is fundamentally NOT tolerant of other faiths - at least not the Islam than men have stolen from God. If there is anything left of Islam as God would have it, then please tell me where it exists.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Thanx for your post Wakar. Its good to hear the thoughts of a British Muslim on this. :tu:

But people are entitled to their opinions of symbolism. For example if the see are Christian and see God as an old bloke with a white beard, or if they are feminist and see God as a woman. That's incitement or hatred.

Muslims complain (as your are) that they are being stereotyped as terrorists (which is wrong), but Muslims should look at themselves and see why is this image so strong in non-Muslim minds? Why is the association between Islam and violence so clear? And then we see on the news embassies burned down, people threatened, and even the ferry company's offices have been burnt down, even before any liability has been established (not that that excuses arson). Muslims brought this on themselves, and I think it is they who need to work and prove Islam, and Muslims are about peace and not violence, and not non-Muslims.

In Christianity, its exactly the same, its illegal to represent God, or heaven in any way. Yet constantly we are directed at representation of God in movies or TV shows. Never once have Christians even attempted violence in retribution for it. Any complaints from Christians regarding blasphemy are very few and far between, and usually consist of peaceful protests with dozens rather than thousands of people. Most, like myself, accept people have the right to believe, as do I, and represent who they like, how they like. If I commit blasphemy, it does not affect your position in your God's eyes so why should it affect you? I suspect I know the answer, but i'll keep it to myself for the time being.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

So that'll be a 'yes we are extremists' then......:D

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Probably the best example I can think of would be the protests about Jerry Springer: The Opera last year.

A couple of hundred protestors and no-one wanting to behead the writers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...io/4154071.stm

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

:rofl:

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Just picked a copy of the Standard Lite.
On P.6 the man who protested dressed like a suicide bomber has said:
Apparently because his clothes could be bought from a shop and not illegal, then it was OK.

Never mind the upset and offence he caused to people who have suffered at the acts of suicide bombers on 7/7. These people have complained with 'shock and outrage' (although they did not dress up as peace activists or protest carrying banners promoting love & understanding) and called in 'an insult'.

To which our protester said:
Apparently apologising for offending someone is a one-way street that only non-Muslims have to follow.

He also said (of his 'costume'):
And neither are those cartoons.

The sooner we have them published them, the better - let these terrorists know we will not bow to their violence.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

Spot on - it's funny how the ban applied equally to Christian crosses and Jewish skullcaps, not just Muslim headscarves, yet nobody else complained. Other religions accepted that it is part of French law to separate religion from the State, and that if you choose to live in a particular country, you live by the laws of the said country - you don't pick and choose only the laws that you want to have applied. If you don't like it, then go live somewhere else.

Re: Should they be published in the UK?
 

I think we might have taken on more than we can handle trying to allow this country to become multi-cultural. Many cultures cannot get on even when they are separated by borders why should we ever have expected them integrate into one society?

I definitely not a racist for sure I think that there is a wealth of knowledge we can gain from other cultures and they can get from us.

I do think that as a rule we are not mature enough to be integrated with other cultures. Same goes for them. Maybe it's time to start reversing the trend of allowing everyone in, it's clearly not working however good the intentions where.