Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

"We’d love to hear your thoughts on the experience of having your ScottishPower smart meter installed, and the benefits this brings".

"As a token of our gratitude, upon completion of the interview process, you will receive a £100 e-voucher for the 2-hour in-person interview as a thank you for your participation and contribution".

I hope ya dont have any issues Taf!!!

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

We have had one for nearly 5 years, never had one problem with them.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Me three…

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Mine went live last week. Waiting for it to give us the first meter reading. Will update everyone as to how it goes.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

A week and you dont have a reading yet ?

I thought the point of them was they could do readings every 1/2 hour or so.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

they do

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

They do readings every half an hour for lecy, once a day for gas. Then they transmit the data to the energy company once day, some times it may take 2-3 days due to local problems.

In my case, I live at the bottom of a hill. An electromagnetic cloud parked at the bottom of the hill (over several houses) for few days, cutting off all transmissions (no satellite TV or Freeview via aerial, mobile signal too). After few days Octopus got all of the data.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I found this guide for Octopus users by Guy Lipman very informative. It includes a section regarding the smart meters they use, and their weaknesses, under the Consumption Data section.
https://www.guylipman.com/octopus/octopus_guide.html

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Likewise.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Last week I had a daily call trying to get me to swap for a smart meter.

The first was an Indian chap with an accent so thick that I could only understand the occasional word. "No thanks".

Then a guy asking me to arrange a date and time. "No thanks".

The third told me they would be coming the following week. "No thanks".

Number 4 told me that the meter was out of calibration. "No thanks".

Then on Friday I was told that they had a legal obligation to change the meter as it was "15 years old". In fact it was replaced 8 years ago, with another analogue one, as I had insisted.

The big guns came out of Saturday morning:

"Under the Acts and Article 6 ECHR, access is reasonably required to replace the meter. Our technician will attend to replace the meter, and will show the warrant and leave a copy for your own records. Your home will be without power for approximately 3 hours. If you have sensitive items in refrigerators or freezers, do not open them during the disconnection. If you have a need for an electricity supply for medical equipment, a portable generator will be made available. Please note that Gas Central Heating will not operate without an electrical supply".

I requested another analogue meter only to be told "We don't have any".

It seems I'm stuffed then.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Only if you let them in...

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

The tech will come with a warrant giving them right to access.

"B(1) Smart Meter Rollout Obligations
4. Currently, energy suppliers are subject to licence conditions imposing an obligation to take all reasonable steps (ARS) to install smart meters at each domestic premises or designated premises in respect of which it is the supplier by 31 December 2020 (“the ARS Obligation”): see Electricity Standard Licence Condition 39; Gas Standard Licence
Condition 33.1.

5. On 18 June 2020, BEIS (Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy) announced its decision as to the regulatory obligations which will apply from 1 January 2021, when the ARS Obligation is due to expire (“the BEIS Decision”):

5.1. Given delays to installation and uncertainty caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, BEIS has decided to extend the ARS Obligation for a further six months to 30 June 2021.

5.2. Thereafter, from 1 July 2021 to the end of the rollout programme on 30 June 2025, suppliers will be subject to percentage rollout targets which must be met, subject to a
specific tolerance level, towards a final target of 100% rollout."

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/defau...nsultation.pdf

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

If you refuse, are they going to stand and argue with you, or just move onto the next job ? ..

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I'm waiting on a return call from CAB. They have all the details and will advise me.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Why do people not like Smart Meters? I mean real, concrete reasons, not fears of what may or may happen in some perceived future.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

There's nothing more the British love than when a first world problem intersects with a good old conspiracy theory. Smart meters hit this sweet spot! ;)

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I still am in the dark, what is this "first world problem" you mention?

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Either be out when the installer is due to call or just don't answer the door?

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Well I dont suppose this helps ;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9zqn77ezno

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Meanwhile there is the following

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ics_Report.pdf

Nearly four million that are faulty is a lot however. :shocked:

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Ours has been faulty since the day it was installed. I still have to navigate the undocumented (Why?) menus on the main unit to get the readings to send in for an accurate bill as the consumer display has also never worked properly.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Neighbours still have faulty meters that have to replaced yet again. The signals are not detected, so they are dumb meters, and have been for a very long time.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I think the total control given to suppliers in the future is a legitimate reason.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/bi...re-busy-times/

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Not all faults need the meter to be replaced. Often it just needs an update to be sent to the meter.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Not really. For those without a smart meter, if they do this and it is not certain yet, they will impose a "modelled" profile for dumb meters to approximate the demand curve. Have no fear, you will pay either way.

As for our smart meters, in the last year they have saved us approx. £1000 relative to us staying on the SVR for Gas & Electricity. No brainer really ...

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Sent through the non-working connection? :erm:

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

It is a government policy that smart meters must be 100% fitted by a set date, or suppliers will be penalised.

Ditto water meters, where the idea behind them is to move away from the charges being set by "rateable value" of a home, to actual usage. And we all know that once an item has a unit price, they will use it to reduce our consumption by either taxation or rate increases.

When I lived in Cyprus, power would be cut off at certain times of day to protect supplies to industry, hospitals, etc. That just meant that peak hours moved either side of the powercuts. If you wanted power during the cuts, you had to pay a substantial amount to maintain your supply.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I like doing things that are positive for the environment. Throwing out two meters that work perfectly well seems an unnecessary waste.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Same could be same for mobile phones. Do you still use a phone that only handle voice calls with no data capability? I suspect you don't but it still functions as a phone.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

My current phone isn't a comparable product with my first phone. I suspect you knew that before you put forward the comparison.

It is however six years old having replaced the battery once.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Just a few of them (4 million!) don't work.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...-great-britain

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

The latest SMETS 2 meters are also not comparable to the dumb ones. Also, you might want a 6 year old phone with dubious security updates but the vast majority of people do not.

Your point of keeping the old meters on "environmental grounds" just does not hold water. With smart meters you can encourage people to switch consumption from peak times and so reduce the need to burn fossil fuels to satisfy the peak demands. You can allow EV's to charge in periods when electricity is under utilized. The list goes on.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

It’s an iPhone that only recently got dropped from the most recent version of iOS. Apple still provide critical security updates beyond this.

None of the above benefits me personally as an end user. I don’t own an EV.

Encouraging people to move consumption away from “peak” times is a slippery slope. Next it’ll be pricing grandma out of using the heating in winter because America is fighting another proxy war and gas has gone up.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

You do know that the world does not revolve around you? :)

Saw this point made on this subject on Reddit and it sums up the position why Smart Meters are a good thing:

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

You (they) seem to have a lot of faith in the private sector to not utilise the opportunity to price gouge for demand that cannot be moved around - being cold in winter - under the guise of dynamic pricing.

“Sorry folks the it wasn’t us it was the algorithm”.

Whether society at large could benefit from this is irrelevant to me anyway, I consume less than the average for electricity and gas. My usage is almost entirely inconsequential. If there’s efficiencies to be had - and presumably money to be saved - that needs to reach the pockets of end users and not shareholders.

In the absence of anything concrete they can keep threatening to pap me onto the variable tariff - which on 1st April is cheaper than my fix (until July) anyway.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

No, I am with you on this. The "private" energy sector will absolutely try and roger the consumer. OFGEM is useless, in fact you might think they are actually employees of the Energy companies. The only hope is for a new Government to bring the energy sector back into public ownership and restructure it for the long term benefit of the consumers and the country. Let's see ...

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

So if my only hope is that a British government develop a spine against the practices of cartels in the “competitive” privatised industries I’ll hang onto my dumb meter for now.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Yet you can save a lot of money while you wait :)

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

It’s a bad investment to save small change now to lose more later when fully dynamic pricing is implemented.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Just been reading that, if Labour win the General Election, they aren't going to relationalise the energy companies, but will create a people's energy company that puts customers first.

People would be free to choose which they want to go with.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I personally do not consider £1000+ small change, YMMV

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Would be interested to know what subset of the population would be in a position to save that amount considering the average is £1600 per year.

Edge cases may do so. However fundamentally these poorly regulated companies have responsibilities to their shareholders.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

£4k in my case. Large house, with very large rooms, several out buildings. I run two 33KW boilers and 4 gas fires.

Leccy was free or almost free, at the weekend or negative (except 4-7pm)

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Not really an edge case: 3-bed semi with Combi Gas boiler. Our savings over the last year are approx 40% so we think this is worth having.

Don't forget that Octopus do make a profit on the smart tariffs we are on.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

And how much profit would octopus make if everyone switched?

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Considering the ridiculous profits the energy companies make I'm sire they'll still make plenty.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

No idea but given that the sector should be in public ownership anyway, I don't really care. I think they (successfully) rely on most people being too scared/lazy/unaware to switch to the smart tariffs to make the point moot.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

In the case of leccy is 100% profit

The formula is public

I will try to find the gas formula.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

The only thing they have said they will renationalise is the railways, doing so gradually by bringing railways back in-house as each contract expires.

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 ----------

I think at some point we will all be forced to go 'smart' but hopefully this will be a long way off as clearly they don't work well enough to force this on every household and business across the country.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I wonder if they pay a different wholesale cost for the SVR tariffs?

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

While they're not in public ownership you're rolling the dice just like everyone else who doesn't use a smart meter.

If everyone switched they'd make the prices reflect this to maintain or increase their current profit margins just like any other rational capitalists in an uncompetitive market.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I was paying 12.35 kWh all of Saturday with Octopus it has jumped a bit since then its now 18.87 kWh. They have just published tomorrow rate which is 18.01 kWh. Since i have moved on to the tracker i have saved a ton of money. If i was still on the variable rate i would be paying 29.57 kWh. I am considering moving to there agile tariff so i can charge my car in the small hours and take advantage of the really cheap or free rate :).

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I've just finally managed to book an Octopus smart meter install for April 5th luckily when I'm off work as someone needs to be home the whole time.

I never wanted one but with all this Tracker and Agile tarrif talk I decided to give it ago and hope things don't go tits up.

Ya but the *******s could leave ya w/o power........ Thats not good either :(

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

If your bills are paid to date then they couldn't. This is Blighty not America. Only a safety issue or perceived safety issue could allow them to do so if your bills are paid to date.

Well thats good to know!!!!!! (That they couldnt just cut power for refusing)

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Next door had their smart meter swapped for another new one this morning. Still no communication possible.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Do smart meters use a special network for communication?

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

AFAIK the original ones used the 2G phone data and since that is being decommissioned some stop working. I think the later ones are 4G.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Found this info, quite interesting:

Electricity & Gas SMETS2 Smart Meters

SMETS 2 Meters

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2024/04/1.png

So I guess if you have no O2 mobile signal, you might have a challenge?

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

The houses on our side of the road, and on several other locations around the country, were all built to the same design and with the same materials. Brick facing and clinker block interior walls, held together with steel ties. Several showed signs of the ties failing, and it was found that they were not of the specified steel required and were rusting to nothing.

So in the late 80s, the walls were removed, leaving the buildings as shells, with the first floor ceiling and roof held up by props. The walls were then replaced with hardened brick exteriors with lightweight insulation blocks inside. Because of the fragility of the insulation blocks, standard ties could not be used, so a stanless steel framework "caged-in" the blocks, and that cage was then tied to the exterior brickwork.

I suspect that this metal framework has effectively made them into Faraday cages. Radio reception in the houses is hopeless, except near to windows. The meter boxes are all sunk into the exterior walls, so are probably shielded against RF signals.

The techs, stood outside, can get good 2-way comms, but I've yet to see one of them try the transceiver inside the meter boxes.

I know a few of these houses that have interior water meters, so I wonder how they communicate to the repeaters out on the pavements.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Sadly the obvious ultimate conclusion of “if we can only make people use energy when it suits big companies and not when they need it”.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

You're making me nervous, my install is tomorrow and my current bill for both Gas and Electricity is only £75 a month with me being £300 in credit.

Very sad.........Poor lady :(

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Here goes, meters being installed right now, I hope I don't regret this!

Edit

Installation complete, no idea what happens next, but I think it takes a while.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

OVO sent me an email the other day with all sorts of doom and gloom messaging in it (which isnt correct in my case). Binned for now.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Can you get an external aerial, I was reading this site after getting my Kaifa m120 Electricity Meter installed and there is talk about aerial?

https://www.smartme.co.uk/smets-2.html

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I think any aerials would be internal, but the newest technology could have moved in any direction. "Mesh" appears to be a sort of LAN to help local comms.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Going through the menus on mine the signal strength shows -127db so basically none.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

SWMBO moved us over to octopus , three days after being connected get an email ‘your meters are end of life’ please arrange to have a smart meter installed, no weekend appts available so that’s not happening !

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I was lucky I was checking daily and then 1 popped up for my last day off work(today), so all done and dusted, now the wait begins.

Sounds like they are being more agressive... Please continue to try and resist!!

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

So I had my Smart Meters installed 6 days ago and everything seems to be setup and working as expected.

I've just registered to move onto the Octopus Tracker Tariff, I was expecting to wait weeks or months to be moved over.... Well with in 2mins I've been switched over and even have today's rates listed on my account and compared to my old flexible tariff I'm already happy.

Electricity Tracker Tariff(for today)
Unit Rate: 17.03p/kWh

Gas Tracker Tariff(for today)
Unit Rate: 3.93p/kWh

Compared this to the Flexible Tariff I was on.
Old Electricity Flexible Tariff
Unit Rate: 25.26p/kWh

Old Gas Flexible Tariff
Unit Rate: 5.97p/kWh

Standing Charges are the same for both Tariffs.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Today and tomorrow for me. I have set my car to charge in the early hours to get the new rate :)

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Agile Octopus electricity is negative for few days now. They bought EU electricity and most Europe is negative. (16-19pm full price)

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Is octotracker an app?

---------- Post added at 17:37 ---------- Previous post was at 17:36 ----------

I still don't know if I would benefit from igile Tariff being a small household.

---------- Post added at 17:56 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

Just installed Octotracker and liking it alot.

---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

I can't believe I wasted so much money by not installing Smart Meters and going on the Tracker Tariff!

Just comparing it to my last month's bill based on today's prices I would have saved £14 a month for Electricity used and £26 a month on Gas used, that's definitely a win for me.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Yeah, this isnt the borg. ;)

I will have to change at some point, since my meter is way too old.

However, I'm waiting until the summer at least, when I use very little gas and less electric, so the disruption will be less.

I may consider moving to Octopus at that point as OVO dont seem to do any kind of tracking tarriff.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

There is an app look on your apps Store,

For Iphone it is https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/octotracker/id6463722470

For Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...hl=en_US&pli=1

At the latest price i am paying I am saving a serious amount over before i had tracker.

At present costs it means i am only paying the following for my trip to Manchester and back each day.

Today's tracker stats for my area.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Found it earlier thanks, it's very handy. :tu:

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

If resisting means i pay nearly twice as much then no chance. Why should i be a fool and live in the past. ?

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Sorry not clicking on a random youtube link with no explanation or context.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

It all about the smart meter trap. Considering I have had no issues and it has saved me a lot of money I have no problem having a smart meter. There will always be those who don’t like them and those that do. It’s part of life the universe and everything 😂

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Eon phoned again (phoning every month), I said that Im don't want one as I've heard and read bad things about them, she didn't comment other than to say about being removed from the call back list, which I did so hopefully no call back in the future.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

If you have good mobile phone signal you will likely have no issues.

My Electricity will be 51% cheaper tomorrow than what I would be paying on a standard Flexible Tariff, 12.23p/kWh instead of 25.25p/kWh, my wallet is very happy.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Do you find that the quoted daily rates from the Octotracker app does not match the tariffs on your account as my actual rates are slightly more?

Electricity is 14.58p on account and 14.03p on the app.
Gas is 4.12p on account and 4.07p on app.

Edit

It looks like the apps using the December Tariff instead of the April one, not sure how to change that, atleast their website is changeable.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Yep i did notice a difference. I sent them a mail and i am waiting on a reply. Electric dropping to 12.39kWh tomorrow for electric that about half the price of the standard tariff. That makes me a happy old hector.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Their site seems far superior with more info, you can set the correct Tracker too.

https://www.octopriceuk.app/tracker

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Top tip change your phone no with them to 0777777777. Never heard from them again. Works for other companies too.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

:rofl:

Its a youtube link,it wont hurt your computer buddy :)

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I'm not clicking to a video I don't know what the content is.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

On Youtube ? Why not ?

The worst that will happen is its something you dont really like, or get bored of, and just close it.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

How are people billed when on a smart meter AND Tracker Tariff, do you get a bill once a month with all daily unit prices listed?

On a none smart meter I used to be billed after submitting a meter reading, something I don't need to do now being on a smart meter.

Edit

I have answered my own question, it's once a month around the due date.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

Has anyone with Octopus Smart Meters had any issues with data readings not showing up on their account and what this means for billing as my Gas Meter hasn't sent any readings for the last 3 days and I have a few 1/2hr instances missing from 7th and 10th April?

Edit

After a quick email to them they have fixed it all ready, I'm very impressed as their fix and reply only took a few mins.

The octopriceuk.app/tracker site is fantastic for seeing your data, you do need to put in your account info and API number though.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I've been on the Octopus Tracker since the 11th April, I'm finding it addictive checking the rates daily using the Octopus Compare app and Octoprice site. It's nice to be given tomorrows rates the day before so you can plan in when best to put the washing machine on etc and the Compare app also shows you your daily realtime Electricity £ savings after telling it your API and meter info which is nice as you can compare to other tariffs of your choice.

Saying that the Agile Tariff if too volatile and restrictive for me to use that.

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I am staying on tracker for now, In other news Octopus are investigating shell energy who i moved from for submitting my handover reading to Octopus twice with the second reading over £1500. Octopus are well aware the reading is massively wrong :). They checked using the reading from the last year i was with shell and compared them with the reading they are seeing now and knew there was funny business a foot. I am so glad they had my readings from my meter to compare day to day :).

Re: Smart Meter, Yae or Nae?
 

I've been using the Octopus Compare app which automatically tracks my electricity usage and compares it to another tariff of my choice. It's 22 days since my smart meters got installed and I've been on the Tracker Tariff since 11th and although the app is assuming I've been on the Tracker since the 5th it's reporting a saving of currently £8 compared to the Flexible Tariff so I'm very happy and over a year it'll be quite a saving, if I had been on the Agile Tariff I would have saved a further £2.