Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Oddly enough, Ive found foil harder to come by in recent weeks :erm:

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Rail freight doesn't need to change trains like us passengers, it has dedicated point-to-point trains.

Agreed.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Yep

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

They won't after the electricity prices go up, which they will do.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

BREAKING: Latest from FT: an estimated 50-85% of UK petrol stations (outside of the motorway network) have run out of fuel after Britons engaged in panic buying over the weekend

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

When it costs the same to charge my EV as it does to put 110lts of vpower diesel in the 4x4 I’ll start worrying

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

IF the deliveries get through then the next few days should hopefully see things stabilise a bit.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Will be interesting to see what the polls say on this. Does the electorate think the government's done a good job or not?

What I'm a bit confused about is the numbers. If there's about 100,000 driver vacancies then are 5,000 temporary overseas drivers really going to make much of a difference? Unless there's 95,000 British HGV drivers about to take their tests or something else I'm missing?

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Given Kier Starmers performance on Andrew Marr this morning, I don’t think it matters.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Or his rude and pathetic Deputy. What a disgraceful party they are and have been for a very long time.

LATEST: Govt has suspended competition laws to allow fuel companies to tackle shortages. brought on buy panic buying weekend.

https://news.sky.com/story/supply-cr...tages-12419291

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I think I saw an observer poll earlier on this evening iirc the figures were.

67% believe the government has handled the issue badly
68% believe the B word is at least partially responsible

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

Her comments were utterly ridiculous and lack both professionalism and sound judgement.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Interesting, thanks. Obviously, people are going to be angry right now and human instinct is to point the finger somewhere so the long-term impact will be interesting.

Johnson has a new useful idiot.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I happened to catch the silly tart on Sky news around tea time, my thoughts after the 'interview' were that the conservatives have nothing to worry about for the next 10 years, and Labour really really need to stop focusing entirely on LGBT, Diversity, Equality and Racism.

Shoot me, see if I care :p:

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Poll conducted by The Observer aka the guardian. :rolleyes:

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

What they need to do is stop the media spreading panic.
There ws absolutely no issue until they started telling everyone a shortage existed, when it didnt.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

It was the same with the toilet roll shortage fiasco (and others), media get fed a line and immediately broadcast it as Armageddon :D

Makes me laugh how the media, who thrive on click bait articles, can so easily get caught by one themselves :D

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

They're not fooled, they're driving the story to get the clicks and eagerly awaiting the next opportunity

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

This sucks. All the petrol stations around me have a £30 limit and many are checking fuel gauges before allowing people on the forecourt.

I have drive to Leeds and back on Saturday (which will cost me around £100 in fuel) and as I’m on around half a tank at the moment I can’t seem to find anywhere to let me fill up. I’m really hoping this is sorted by the weekend or it could get messy.

Does anyone know if petrol stations on motorway services are having the same problem?

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Probably easier to fly into Leeds Bradford airport Russ . . planes seem to have fuel ;)

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

And all the people who panic buy…

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

John Redwood - the gift that keeps on giving…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1632734735

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I sometimes have difficulty in distinguishing the JR parody account from the real account. This is one of those occasions. :D

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Petrol stations should go the other way - minimum order per vessel. Say you set it at, I dunno £40, that would deter the 'topper uppers'. Used less than £40 of petrol, tough, £40 please. Make it a 'per vessel' charge too - filling a jerry can on top of filling your car? Another £40 please

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

And all the tanks that don't hold £40, just tough is it?

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Way ahead of you there. Average petrol cost per litre is £1.35 so £40 will give you 29.63 litres. According to the chart here, the smallest fuel tanks are 35l which is £54 worth.

Might need different rules for motorbikes I guess :D

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

going to be a very brave person who tries to charge irate drivers £40 for £20 worth of fuel.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I'm fine.I have 3/4 of a tank left. However I used a fair bit trying to get past the queue for the nearest petrol station whilst trying to get to do my weekly shop at Tesco. Muppets!

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

In South Africa price of petrol is set daily, nationally so people don't need to search around for best prices. I guess that when the next petrol could be 100's of km away you don't want to risk running out because it may be cheaper than the small station just ahead of you, even more true in places like Australia. Works though. (Don't know if this is still the case, last trip a few years back.)

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

According to the Next Door app, most of the pumps in my town are dry or getting there, with some fuel coming overnight.

I dropped my car off for its service this morning, traffic was a joke, at 7:30am it was worse than pre covid.

Luckily the courtesy car has enough fuel to do the jobs I need to do, the nearby Tesco has queues to the fuel that is blocking access to the store, down from their Queuing to the BP was so bad 2 lorries crossed the traffic island and drove on my side, luckily the bus stop was empty, my local Sainsbury's fuel was shut

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Seriously?

Most vans delivery delivers use can be driven with a standard drivers licence - HGVs, not so much; and a reasonable number of them just use cars for deliveries.

If you can’t tell that a parcel delivery driver isn’t the same as an HGV driver, then I don’t know what more to say - the difference in manoeuvring/reversing a 44 foot 44 ton articulated lorry and a sprinter van is considerable; that will be why it take 8-10 weeks to get an HGV licence, and the course can cost up to £5,000.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

So that would be a kind of nationalisation? Services provided for the public benefit, not profit.
It's taken time bit the Tories have slowly coming round to it e.g. the railways ate starting to go that way.

Coupled with the new winter of discontent, rising taxes,
massive debt it's like having a Labour govt without it being called Labour !

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

All of that. Plus the fact that van drivers for online firms are usually home-based whilst HGV drivers usually have to spend some of their week away from home which is an understandable barrier to recruitment.

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

Even Abba have returned to try and convince us that this is the 1970s! :D

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

And since we're on the panic at the pumps thread, even if they could drive an HGV there's then an entirely separate qualification required before you can drive a fuel tanker/trailer.

EDIT: (PDP) ADR qualification

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I wish my hair and slim waistline would :(

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Yeah, cos 'must have own car/van/HGV unit' will work well won't it :D

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

All those people working in hospitality probably took to van driving when they lost their jobs, not quite so simple for them to take up hgv driving as it was van driving

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Recruiting van drivers vs recruiting HGV drivers is like comparing apples & oranges. It's a totally different process

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

They were successful because it was a simple process needing very little extra training (one of our friend’s daughter became a home delivery driver for Tesco whilst her Opera singing career was on hold due to COVID, and it was a couple of days induction/training) - that isn’t the case for HGV drivers.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

An interesting article from an HGV driver/owner which includes a take on post-16 education:

https://centralbylines.co.uk/hgv-dri...t-got-us-here/

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Our local Tesco petrol station closed for maintenance, opened for 2 days, but was shut again today as a gaggle of bods do pump calibration work.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Might want to relax the rules on cabotage which allows trucks coming from the EU to carry one load in the UK after delivering their goods before picking up another load to travel back abroad. Limiting cabotage makes trucking in the UK pretty unattractive - empty trucks make no money.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Just been up to my local Sainsbury's (to shop) and they've wound the queue for petrol right round the car park but it's still backing up onto the A27. Must be at least 1/2 a mile long.

Glad I've got plenty in the motor.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

"Inter-range services must be specifically structured in order not to infringe national cabotage laws (such as the Jones Act in the United States) preventing a foreign maritime company to carry freight between domestic ports. For instance, for an inter-range service D-A-B-C-D, a maritime shipping company registered in country 2 has the right to unload or load freight at ports A, B or C in country 1 as long as this freight is coming from or bound to a foreign port (port D in this case). Moving freight from port A to port B or C would not be permitted since it would be considered as cabotage. That same maritime shipping company would, however, be able to carry freight between ports D, E, and F (cabotage) since it is registered in country 2."

Aslo https://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes...ge/cabotage_en

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Free movement of labour has gone, our choice.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I would be more polite and call it a misjudgment - as the article I posted shows, and the JR tweet that Hugh posted, I simply don't think the government really understands blue collar jobs.

I agree that the length of stay is too short to be attractive to many and also the numbers involved are insignificant - 5,000 is better than nothing but it's not going to make a real impact especially as Christmas is the busiest time of the year for many retailers.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

This was posted on Facebook, so to be taken with a pinch of scepticism. However, I have checked and the ADR licence is a thing.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Good point.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

That quote is essentially saying blame the media.

We could have had supply problems before but not known about them. I've certainly been to petrol stations before that have run out of everything except diesel.

But do we really want to put what MediaBoy would call a DNP on fuel shortage reporting?

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Unless, of course, those drivers moved to better-paying jobs with other Logistics/Supermarket companies that have offered £5k signing on bonuses and salaries of £50k+?

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Sorry - it was more that whilst people blame the media, it doesn't get us anywhere as no one wants to go down the route of censorship, so we need to tackle another part of the immediate problem. Be that limiting fuel spend per visit or reserving some petrol stations for NHS staff, etc.

https://news.sky.com/story/governmen...risis-12420012

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I think the Government played a blinder ;)

Businesses complaining about this that and the other, virtually demanding we let cheap foreign labour back into the UK, and releasing carefully worded statements to the media knowing full well the media will hype it up it, playing on the resulting public outcry against the Government for ruining Christmas.

In the end, the Government conceded by announcing foreign HGV drivers and 'poultry' workers would be given 3 month visas to get us through the alleged 'crisis' . . . also knowing full well there won't be much of an uptake on the offer :D

VAR says no foul
Bumbling Boris 1 - Greedy Businesses 0

Second half underway

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

They just need to ban filling anything which isn't a fuel tank in a vehicle.


Car, yes you can fill it up. Plastic bottle, no.


People's panic buying will then ultimately be limited by the capacity they have in their fuel tanks.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I'd say that's more likely than media scaremongering, no way they can compete with the supermarkets

Isn't illegal to store over a certain amount of petrol at home?

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I think insurance companies may frown on it :D

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I'm sure even Johnson would smile at the title of the FT View piece on the crises facing the PM.
Memo to Boris Johnson: prenez un grip :D

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Correct, and correctly.
This is an completely media created issue.

We could have been invaded by aliens, but probably havent.
Garages sometimes running out is not even remotely new, it happens.
It happened again, to a very small number of BP Garages (not Shell, or others).
The media got wind of it and instantly went nuts with "fuel shortage" headlines.
The public instantly went into panic mode, and created a shortage at every garage, something that simply wasnt the case until then.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

:tu:

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

That would be for intra-EU transport. Unfortunately, our agreement with the EU allows for one trip in, one in state transport and one trip out. That's for EU trucks coming and and UK trucks going out (not sure what the situation is for Northern Ireland)

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Thankfully we have spent millions on cycle lanes in London so there's no problem getting to work :tu:

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

It's actually a £2bn nationwide Johnson initiative.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/p...ing-revolution

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Money well spent eh,glad he didn't waste it on hgv and tanker drivers.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

The media can’t take all of the blame when politicians stand up and say “don’t panic” then everyone thinks “panic”.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

did you say toilet rolls

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

The truest statement here is the increase in students at university and the situation now where even some menial jobs need a degree. (OK a bit of hyperbole).


If we can get back to uni's, poly's and colleges all offering different things aimed at different vocations and people AND increase the value of non-degree trained people and jobs. It's not always just pay (though that helps) but being valued.


We also need to allow streams so people who are good at something aren't forced into management roles to progress and we can identify those who are good at management and get them into those roles even if they are rubbish at other stuff.


And stop snipping at each other pointing out mistakes, especially not having viable alternatives. We need to work together through this situation, yes different "parties" will have different solutions, lets work out the best that also fits in with the best other solutions for other problems.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

The way out of this is another lockdown;)

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

There is yes, in fact it's not recommended to do at all by some people, I think it has to be stored away from a house or car as well so most people probably don't have the space to do it properly anyway.


Only a matter of time before one of these ends up in a fire, i'd say.


I'd definitely ban filling up anything which isn't a vehicle (potentially without some sort of permit which shows you have something to fill up if you can't take it to the garage) and the only exception should be like for example if you've ran out and need a can to get you to a station where you could say provide an emergency code to permit it which is issued by the AA or whatever.



If they turn up and try and fill up something else, they don't turn the pump on.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I'm afraid Dad's Army comes to mind when I hear that phrase being used! :D

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

You appear to accidentally inserted an extra "oilet " in your post…

;)

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Never thought of anything that far but I do think that the civil service often interpret and work on rules made by parliament in such a way that they don't work or don't work as intended.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Can you give any examples, please?

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I don't think a trade union was at the talks.

---------- Post added at 10:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 ----------

I think they do exactly the opposite - try and get the most ridiculous policies to work.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

So you think I should lug my lawnmower down to Tescos to fill up with a pint of unleaded?

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

get a ride on they do 100 mpg:)

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

The Act defines "premises" thus on p128:



---------- Post added at 10:53 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------

A minor and useless observation:

We say "Tescos" and "Sainsburys" but we don't say "Asdas" or "Waitroses", for example.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Did anyone notice how Channel 5 changed it's programming to have an hour long show about the Petrol Crisis last night. Ridiculous!

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Or The Asda, as it's known in Merseyside :)

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Responding to customer demand, unlike the petrol companies ironically.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

People cause their own problems,

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

"Sainsbury's" is right though as that's what they call themselves ;)

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

It was called J Saisnbury for a long time but everyone called it Sainsbury's so they fell in line! https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.u...-years-4504010

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I think both names were used, even in the 19th Century…

https://sainsburyarchive.org.uk/timeline/150

From 1884

https://d1nvj7b44vmgv4.cloudfront.ne...103cropped.jpg

1890

https://d1nvj7b44vmgv4.cloudfront.net/w800/5.jpg

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Not sure how this distribution issue is going to resolve itself. I'm sure fuel will be prioritised and resolved but what about everything else?
https://news.sky.com/story/fuel-supp...pumps-12419438

---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

Interesting, thanks.
As a nation, we're never quite sure whether to add an S. Hence BT Sport and Sky Sports taking different approaches.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Two of my friends, Jerry Cann and Sue Perun Leaded filled up no problem at my local Tesco's.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Depends how big it is, if it fits in a boot of a car then yes.


If not, then it could long-term come under some form of permit scheme where using a can as temporary storage is allowed. But I would probably say at the moment filling up a petrol lawn mower for most people is way down on the list of priorities for people needing fuel.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

no queue at my local garage no fuel either.
i drove past and thought ah the panic is over then i saw the no fuel sign.

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...nson-r38tckx3l

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/09/8.jpg

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Ah, the old "governments must only think of one thing at a time" argument ... :D

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

The truth has slipped out....
https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/28/petro...isis-15329129/

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Grant who ?

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------

Yes they can, by the time politicians got involved, it was too late (the panic was already happening).

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

No, the old "dead cat" stratagem… ;)

Also, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about (as a teenager, I was an Apollo mission fanatic).

He said The F1 was a rocket engine, not a booster (which usually refers to a stage), and there were five of them in the Saturn V first stage, and it was eighteen and a half feet in length.