Re: Energy companies collapse
 

You just feel colder, becasue its so hot when you are outside.

Eventually, all that electricity will be for coolers, not heaters ;)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I'm with Orbit. I suggested them to friends around the UK, but the "postcode lottery effect" gave them much higher quotes, but still better than they had.

Once the prices settle down, I'll be comparing for a better deal. But I suspect many companies will go to the limit to enable them to recoup the losses they are making with Fixed Deals.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

This something that OFGEM has never clarified AFAIK.

If you use less than the price cap level, can they charge you right up to the cap level?

If you use more than the price cap level, does all your usage get charged at a higher rate?

It is totally murky trying to get answers.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Why would those least able to pay be forced to remain on prepayment meters, unless they've had arrears at some point in the past? The bill still has to be paid.
I only had a PAYG meter because that is how it was when I moved in. It had to be freshly installed(fire damage from previously tenant) before they knew who was going to move in. I couldn't switch away from PAYG until a smart meter was installed, which I did 3 years ago.
One thing with prepayment meters is that they have to pay the retailers for having people top-up in person. Same as using credit cards. That is an extra cost.
My PAYG rate was cheaper than the credit meter rate by 0.56p/Kwh. Based upon my current smart meter device readings and the letters about the new rates, if I was still on PAYG I would be paying 1.44p/KWh less.
Difficult to be totally sure, because SSE have made such a mess over the tariffs they've informed me about. So many conflicting pieces of info from them.

---------- Post added at 19:19 ---------- Previous post was at 19:17 ----------

If you were charged more because of going above the price cap level, then surely your supplier would have to give you at least 2 different rates depending on usage. Does that happen for anyone?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I vaguely remember paying 2 different rates at one point a few years ago. But that was because there was no Standing Charge I think. :dunce:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

But they would have to inform you of those 2 rates, which is what I said. It couldn't be a hidden thing as Taf is suggesting.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

No in both cases.

The price cap is simply the max you must pay for 'average' use, so the unit prices must be set accordingly.

If you use more, you pay more, if you use less, you pay less.
The issue I was having was finding what the actual 'average' usage figures were.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

It's the same here. And I've trawled the Internet for the actual figures.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Might be time for people to start ringing companies and asking the question . . somebody has to know ;)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

2900 kwh electric 12000 kwh gas

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Did you just make them up ? or do you have something to back them up ?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I did have a link for them at the time of posting I will find it again by googling the numbers

---------- Post added at 22:33 ---------- Previous post was at 22:32 ----------

Here you go https://www.ukpower.co.uk/home_energ...ctricity-usage

---------- Post added at 22:34 ---------- Previous post was at 22:33 ----------

here is an ofgem document on them https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/defau...n_letter_0.pdf

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Bulb have raised their prices up to 80%

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Presumably you’re just talking about their gas prices? My higher electricity prices with them are now in effect, but they’ve gone up from from 18.876p to 20.824p per kWh with a standing charge increase from 26.881p to 27.384p per day.

When I joined them about 3 years ago they were 14.543p per kWh with the standing charge at 20.444p. I haven’t actually checked for a while to see if they’re still the cheapest for me but I suspect these rates are still pretty good. I can’t get dual fuel because we have no mains gas here.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Shell's standard tariff for Electricity (DD only) is 27.410p standing charge per day, and a unit rate of 18.981p per kWH (according to this site).

They also have Economy 7

Day rate 21.730p
Night rate 12.415p
Standing charge 27.490p

https://www.switch-plan.co.uk/suppli...nergy/tariffs/

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

18.9p is actually cheap in this day and age. I still do not know what Octopus is going to charge me yet

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I should go give them a look … only thing to be aware of is that a component of the electricity charge is paid to the local distribution network operator. In our case that’s the Scottish highlands half of SSE, whose charges are particularly high. The prices you will get quoted for service at your postcode are likely to be cheaper than for mine.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I was paying 14p ish with Avro up till they crashed my new charges are gonna be a shock

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Not a surprise, Bulb customers will probably be happy at least in the short term.
https://www.ft.com/content/6114abb9-...0-d874d4c33112

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Our annual electricity hovers just above 4000kwh (just below their 4,300 HIGH level), whilst our gas is just above 7,000kwh (1,000 below their 8,000 LOW level).

So does the cap apply in our case? I fear not. :(

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

We use 7,500kWh electricity a year but no gas. Mind you our biomass bill more than makes up for that…

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

yes but the per unit rate (which I can not find) will

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Lots of blurb here : https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publication...al-if-possible

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

yeah that does not give unit rates it just breaks down the overall charge.

I see it does on the page

From 1 October the equivalent per unit level of the price cap to the nearest pence for a typical customer paying by direct debit will be 21p per kWh for electricity customers and 4p per kWh for gas customers.

Which tbh is what all those on the price switch are coming in at so I should have guessed haha

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Where are you getting that from ?

They announced rises in August, that took effect on Oct 1st, and they were not 80%.

https://bulb.co.uk/blog/energy-price...-prices-aug-21

My current tarrif with them shows as ;

Electricity Day Unit Rate: 22.2904p per kWh
Electricity Night Unit Rate: 14.5898p per kWh
Standing charge: 23.8434p per day (£87.03 per year)

Gas Unit rate: 3.9868p per kWh
Standing charge : 26.1124p per day (£95.31 per year)

Probably not the best, but not the worst either.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I think there were reports of Bulb increasing DDs by 80% for some, even though they are in credit. They are obviously desperate for cash flow.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

The Guardian .. Sat 2 Oct 2021 17.38 BST https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...es-of-up-to-80

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

They tried to increase mine by about 10% even though I am almost £300 in credit. You can manually change it back downwards on the website but the webpage has a minimum price it won’t go below. Otherwise you have to phone them. I’ve changed it twice in the last week - the second time the minimum amount was lower so I’m wondering if it’s a percentage drop rather than a hard minimum.

Anyway, after their grubby attempt to get me to pay even more over the odds (as I clearly was already), the end result is that my DD is now slightly lower than it was a week ago. Which serves them right.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

No 80% rise here I am still paying £73 a month although they suggest I change that to £93 but as I'm over £100 in credit I'm not rushing to do that.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

You could use it as a savings pot and demand the cash at Christmas, I did it a few times years ago and wouldn't be fobbed off with we'll take it of your next bill, no you won't you'll pay the cash now. On a pre pay meter now, pay between £20-25 per month I'd say, they keep saying I can save a fiver a month on DD but sod 'em tbh

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

We pay by DD, standard tariffs with the main suppliers in our area.
The thing that's always annoyed me is the 'change' they try to make to payments every 6 months or so, and I got to the stage where I couldn't be bothered with a phone call to argue anymore . . .

. . which led to a £27 a month gas DD, latest letter showed me as about £13 in debt I think, and a nice warning about price rises (and the winter months are coming).

I'm sure they'll soon send me a letter demanding asking nicely for about £70 a month, which I'll then go ballistic over and offer £50 . . like it or lump it :D

We're not dual energy, no matter how many times it's been suggested by both Gas & Electricity suppliers, although it is a nice point to throw at whichever one is being awkward at the time . . as in, I can always change to dual . . . but not with you ;)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Entertainingly my provider is trying to make me pay less. While I’m slightly up their estimates have gone to pot because a supplier took over my service without permission and it took months to resolve. I did get £60 for the hassle.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Wow SnoopZ do you live in some sort of eco house, I think we were paying that amount about 15 years ago :Yikes:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I just decided to heck with it and contacted Bulb on web chat to try to get my DD reduced further. They weren’t having it, so I demanded a refund of my credit balance instead. They’re sending me £175, which is about two thirds of it, and at the rate I’m paying them will leave more than enough for me to still be in credit 6 months from now. Absolute fools would still have it in the bank if they hadn’t tried to gouge me via direct debit last week.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

when you are a standard tariff which most of us will be for a while I imagine you gain nothing from a DD anyway. Octopus just say it is up to us what we pay and when we pay it and if we do not pay by DD they will just send a bill like the olden days hahaha

If I was in your shoes I would say either do as I ask or I am cancelling my DD and paying what I want through the top up option on the site

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I can’t be bothered staying on top of it though, which I guess is why the credit balance got so high in the first place. They think my estimated monthly usage is £135 which makes it hard to argue for a DD of £90 which is what I was asking. The problem really is that we have only stopped doing B&B since the pandemic, and as we cook electric and have electric showers in 2 guest ensuites as well as the family bathroom our electricity usage has historically been higher in the summer than the winter. So I know that our monthly usage over the next 6 months isn’t going to be that high, especially in comparison to summer, but I don’t have the fresh figures to prove it. So I’ve just clawed back about two thirds of my credit balance, left my DD at £111 a month, and I’ll look at it again in January.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

fair enough :)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Interesting article by the Money savings expert.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...L7w11QcQf30nEA

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I just want it sorted so I can apply for the WHD before all the slots are filled. If I lose the £140 on top of the higher bills it will be a nightmare to pull myself out of

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

No just a 2 bed with gas central heating, I moved from eon a few years ago who wanted to up the bill to over £100, I should have switched years ago.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

According to their own comparison site, the cheapest deals atm are the variable rate tarrifs.
I set Bulb in as the current, and they could find nothing cheaper, but several the same, all the fixed deals were more expensive.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Suspect the fixed rate offers don’t really have a choice. Either they anticipate prices to keep rising in which case they have to pre-empt that or need some customers to offset the loss-making usage ongoing at the minute.

Either way they can’t commit to fixing at the same rate as a current variable leaving them unable to respond to volatile market conditions.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Confirmation of what we're seeing.
https://www.ft.com/content/e17a3f66-...5-20a3ac1e9c16

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

It's disgraceful behaviour. They are playing on people panicking, and thinking that a fixed deal must be a good deal.
Seeing a similar thing with petrol and hiking prices to make a massive profit.
The private sector at work....

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

just got a quote for OVO for £131 fixed for 2 years. Admittedly with my low gas consumption. Even with 4200 leccy and 10000 gas it is £161 so not far off the 2K I guess.

Harsh fact is these prices are going to kill the poorest in society

Maybe that is why all this is happening. A cull to fight over population ( I do not really think this btw)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Indeed, so let's choose this time to cut Universal Credit and increase taxes to make sure they do go under.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I am hoping the court case goes ahead and rule that those on ESA were discriminated against when they did not get the £20 a week with the only reason being the system could not do it. That would be worth well over a grand in my sky rocket

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

After nearly a decade of not being uprated, this is to be increased to £150, but people on means tested benefits will still be much worse off.

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------

Indeed, lawyers are working behind the scenes to try & make this happen.

I never bought the original excuse and it's interesting that the Government are now saying that only Universal Credit (UC) and Working Tax Credit (WTC) were uplifted because they wanted to help working people only.

They haven't done themselves any favours by saying this as many people on UC cannot work due to disability, caring responsibilities etc, whilst those on UC/WTC and in work are usually better off than those that cannot work anyway.

Those not included in the uplift have received a total of £1,500 less as a result.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I know it is off topic but I would actually be better off once they switch me to UC but of course I lose the protection I get by waiting to be switched by them instead of me asking to switch.

These things all relate to the energy prices because I will suffer from the prices but thankfully I am quite hardy to the cold and intend to use as little heating as possible this year in favour of wrapping up and sitting with a quilt

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I’m loathed to say it but to be honest you can’t blame the companies. They’ve been sold a pup that they’re the private sector causing efficiencies where previously a state monopoly existing was allegedly grossly inefficient.

In fabricating the existence of a market where none exists they got themselves into a stable industry, guaranteed customer base. As there’s no genuine competition to drive down prices, or real motivation for efficiencies (there’s only playing around the edges with special offers here and there). Decades of profits to be had.

The the rug gets pulled from under them. They’re not going to take the flack - they’re only the middleman between between the bank chasing them for loans they used to buy energy last year and you paying them today. Once they’ve extracted all the money in the middle between their debtors and creditors to shareholders there is only collapsing left to do. There’s nobody to carry the can it’s all gone.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

And now the Garlic eaters are threatening to cut off our power again...

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Not like them to be starting a war . . it's probably the German influence ;)

anyway, screw em, I'm up for some 'tit for tat' childishness :D

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

They've got wine, cheese, good cuisine, culture.
We've got some sheep .....

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

. . and fish . . and lots of their dinghies ;)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

6th October

"The price of UK (wholesale natural gas) has hit its highest level ever, rising by 37% in the past 24 hours."

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

it is the freaking Russians Gazprom throttling Europe wanting its own way over a pipeline that is not meeting certain standards

US did the right thing when it come to fuel. I do not know what we can do. Can we quickly build our own storage and pipe it in from the North sea. Do we still have Gas rigs in the North Sea? offloading storage to France is one of the worse things that our countries leaders ever did

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Yes there still are gas rigs in the North Sea, not as many though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

Shale gas is always an option.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

What storage did we offload to France?

Texas failed to invest in storage and suffered blackouts as a result, so US is not necessarily a good example to follow.

As FT commentator Brooke Masters notes, the market has not delivered storage capacity and this is strongly needed by the UK due to its reliance on renewables. Market failure. I don't know if this was flagged by the regulator but this is a key reason why we're in a worse situation than a lot of our peers.
https://www.ft.com/content/b583559e-...1-32f5734ca1c6

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Typical middle class thing to do is post links to a news site behind a paywall. You have seen me mention in this thread how the new prices are going to make me struggle. I am insulted you think I can afford to waste money on the Financial Times

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Simply copy the title of the article and paste it into the search box. Voila!

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I wonder how long before the question of a tidal barrage on the Severn Estuary reappears? £millions on consultants, then back on the shelf for a few years.

Electricity would be generated as the lagoon filled and emptied, plus a nice route for a motorway between South Wales and The West Country that wouldn't be shut every time the wind got up.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

[Duplicate post]

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

It's not right that a poor energy policy is likely to make people in the UK, a wealthy country struggle. That's why I'm keen to raise the issue.

I've posted the necessary extract to make the point without breaching copyright by posting the entire article. To read the full article, you can Google the headline "Memo to countries going green: don’t be like the UK". I'm sorry that I didn't mention this bit in my post.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Excellent quote from that piece:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

"Certain standards"? It's all about anti-Russian sanctions. Germany is happy with the 2nd pipeline, following the route of the 1st Nord Stream.
Link

Link to pdf

The gas that passes through the Ukrainian pipeline comes from ..... Russia.
Doesn't help that German demand for gas has soared because they are closing the nuclear power stations.

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:02 ----------

With banks it's about access to people's money, that the people already own.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Agree 100%.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

UK price cap going up by 12%, German prices going up by 13%. Which is better?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Obviously depends on the numerical amount of the price cap and not the percentage rise.

Do you have the two figures to hand or are you just trying to give Johnson or Merkel a helping hand?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Average salary in Germany is higher than the U.K., and the overall cost of living is lower - which is better?

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...untry2=Germany

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Do you have the figures or are you just making things up? At least I do the research.
The 12% was on TV news.
Link
I did post the details of price comparisons between countries, but that post seems to have disappeared(probably due to tidying up of threads).
You can't compare raw gas prices, you have to include all the other costs that the consumer faces(green taxes).

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

What's that to do with claiming that German gas price increases are less?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Plenty if you're paying the bill!

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

But nothing to do with what is being claimed. Firstly Germany currently DOESN'T have large stores of gas.
Link

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Because context is all - if you have a higher salary & lower overall cost of living, one data point increasing is more affordable.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

The claim was about increases and that Germany's was lower because they have a large amount stored. The claim was false on both counts.


According to this, the UKs raw gas price is only 2% more than Germany's.
UK 70,46 Euros per MW/h, Germany 69.1 Euros per MW/h.
Link

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I just posed a question.

Here's some research
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/23/b...sis/index.html

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Irrelevant.

The similarity lies in the requirement that national infrastructure and services upon which people rely should continue to function. Whether the commodity they are storing is already owned or not is neither here nor there. If supply cannot meet demand then a serious risk to the public wellbeing arises.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

December 2020 Electricity prices
Germany $0.37/KWh, UK $0.26/KWh.
Link

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Again (and I know from your previous posts context & nuance are not close acquaintances of yours), it all depends on the overall economic picture re affordability.

Anyway, Vladimir Vladimirovich has decided to play nice…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58815665

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Pesky Russians eh . . anyway, the French won't let us have any unless we let them fish in Torquay harbour . . or something ;)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I can't disagree with Lord Ridley here.

This is worth a listen.

Link

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Bloody crusties!

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

:D:D:D

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Well I decided to be curious, and get a quote from ESB (who I left not long ago).

It was over £100 more than Bulb.

I had to smile at their BS though, their service wasnt that good when I had to use it (twice).
and as for "Long Term Value" ? LOL, How exactly is £1200+ extra of any value at all (long or short).

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

No Minister! For those who like their popcorn moments, there's been some interesting contradictory information. A Treasury source then took the unusual step denying a comment made by the Business Secretary that possible support for businesses was even being discussed and said it was not the first time he had made stuff up!

https://news.sky.com/story/minister-...risis-12431190

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

So would everybody in the Treasury be aware of everything that went on there? Of course not. He didn't mention "talks" with the Treasury, but with "government colleagues".

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

So why did the treasury issue such a stinging rebuke to Kwarteng then?

Either Kwarteng is lying or the treasury is...

Take your pick and answers on a postcard please.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

During the Blitz we didn’t have this kind of pedantic analysis of politicians following their rounds on the Sunday morning television spots.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

They didn't, a "source" did.
"Government colleagues" would imply Ministers, who in turn would be talking within their departments, eg Treasury.
As I said, ONE PERSON cannot know everything that is going on.
Seems unlikely that the Treasury wouldn't be looking into potential options all by themselves, just in case they were asked.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

That source was representing the Treasury and would need to be reputable and sufficiently high up before Sam Coates reported it. Not just a random in the IT department.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/sta...-politics-live

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------

:D:D:D
We were all too busy attending to our gardens which were converted to food production to bother watching Sunday morning telly.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

re the blitz comment Well social media did not exist and people were fed propaganda from the one source (yeah the BBC) so totally different

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

There was also the Ministry of Information

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

who fed the BBC

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

And all the newspapers & magazines

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

ok so I got the one source wrong but it was still the one source hence why you cannot compare then and now on a forum of which also did not exist

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I think the OP was being ironic…

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I mean the 1940s are broadly irrelevant anyway for most 21st century comparisons but it doesn’t stop nostalgia for the good old days permeating British political discourse from a generation who weren’t there.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Yes, it's normally a sign of a weak argument being propped up.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Also, it’s very selective memories…

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ins...ome-front.html

Re: Energy companies collapse