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-   -   Britain outside the EU (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709659)

Mad Max 12-01-2021 18:22
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36066377)
Oh bugger we forgot to ask if Scott's could read and write so they could do the paperwork :omg:
Oh cod that's terrible..:D

mrmistoffelees 12-01-2021 18:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36066374)
It gets pettier and pettier - not to mention vindictive.

Well, proves that people who voted for Brexit were correct. Their a nasty bunch of people taking truckers sandwiches from them. Just like the Australians... Americans....

Hugh 12-01-2021 18:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36066381)
Do you have any proof of that.
We have proof you can’t... :D

Mad Max 12-01-2021 19:08
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066395)
We have proof you can’t... :D
:D:D

papa smurf 12-01-2021 19:14
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066395)
We have proof you can’t... :D
It's all Latin to me;)

French seafood importers from the port of Boulogne-sur-Mer said deliveries were being held up because the Latin names of fish species were being entered incorrectly on papers.

Might have to get a priest to fill out the paperwork:)

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ssels-red-tape

heero_yuy 12-01-2021 19:26
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36066399)
Might have to get a priest to fill out the paperwork:)
Ah, the piece of cod that passeth all understanding.:D

Taf 12-01-2021 19:45
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Lidl and Aldi today has fresh fruit and veg from many parts of the EU, so there must be a lot of smugglers at work.

nomadking 12-01-2021 19:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36066404)
Lidl and Aldi today has fresh fruit and veg from many parts of the EU, so there must be a lot of smugglers at work.
Or perhaps the UK is a lot more sensible about things.

1andrew1 13-01-2021 00:04
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Not a situation we can transfer blame to the SNP for.
Quote:
Northern Ireland food shortages set to worsen, say UK supermarket heads

Further supply disruption expected from new border regime after Brexit grace period ends

The UK’s largest supermarkets have warned the government of “significant disruption to food supplies” to Northern Ireland because of “unworkable” post-Brexit border arrangements.

Many supermarkets in the region have already been hit by rows of empty shelves because of the new border regime.

But in a letter to Cabinet Office secretary Michael Gove, chief executives of companies including Sainsbury, Marks and Spencer and Tesco UK warned that shortages would worsen when a Brexit grace period, which has exempted retailers from some arduous red tape, ends on March 31.

The supermarkets urged the government to take “a number of steps to work with us to ensure the long-term sustainability of the Northern Irish grocery market”.

The retailers also called on the government to begin an “open discussion” with the EU to explain why implementing the Irish protocol was “unworkable” in the current timeframe, raising the prospect of difficult negotiations with Brussels just weeks after the deal was agreed.
https://www.ft.com/content/8bdb2a68-...7-d4ddf03000d8

Sephiroth 13-01-2021 00:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
An emergency airlift by the Guvmin seems in order here.

Brussels will be intent on punishing us.

1andrew1 13-01-2021 01:01
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36066448)
An emergency airlift by the Guvmin seems in order here.

Brussels will be intent on punishing us.
I suspect that they will end up changing their sourcing to the Republic but longer term may make ownership less viable. We'll see.

nomadking 13-01-2021 01:29
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36066449)
I suspect that they will end up changing their sourcing to the Republic but longer term may make ownership less viable. We'll see.
And where exactly will Ireland source things from? They are heavily dependent on goods coming from or through the UK.
Ireland is currently dodging the issues.
Link

Quote:
Ireland is set to be awarded more than €1 billion as part of a European Union fund to offset the impact of Brexit.

...
However, while the sizable majority of goods are fully checked and sent through the so-called “green route”, a source said there is now a “trend of people not engaging with their paperwork or obligations”.
Ministers were told of the need for companies to engage with the problem, with a fear that individual companies have “switched off” to the impacts of Brexit. The issue was among the reasons why customs arrangements for businesses importing goods from Britain were temporarily eased last week.
Sources cautioned, however, that while this measure was suitable as a once-off step, it could not be repeated going forward.

1andrew1 13-01-2021 01:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36066450)
And where exactly will Ireland source things from? They are heavily dependent on goods coming from or through the UK.
Ireland is currently dodging the issues.
Link
I'm sure the EU will support Ireland.

---------- Post added at 00:36 ---------- Previous post was at 00:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36066448)
An emergency airlift by the Guvmin seems in order here.

Brussels will be intent on punishing us.
BoJo signs a last-minute skinny deal and doesn't allow the Commons time to scrutinise it and guess what happens?

nomadking 13-01-2021 01:52
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36066451)
I'm sure the EU will support Ireland.

---------- Post added at 00:36 ---------- Previous post was at 00:34 ----------


BoJo signs a last-minute skinny deal and doesn't allow the Commons time to scrutinise it and guess what happens?
What else can the EU do from a practical point of view?


A lot of it seems to be a matter of getting used to the new EU imposed regime.

1andrew1 13-01-2021 02:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36066453)
What else can the EU do from a practical point of view?


A lot of it seems to be a matter of getting used to the new EU imposed regime.
You forget that it is your boy Boris who wanted this system, not the EU.

nomadking 13-01-2021 03:15
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36066454)
You forget that it is your boy Boris who wanted this system, not the EU.
It's the EU's systems, not the UK's.

It was the EU that delayed things. Not sure there was anything much in the final agreement, that the UK wasn't willing to accept a long time ago.
Anyway, it should mostly be a temporary set of hiccups, that people get accustomed to.

papa smurf 13-01-2021 10:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
British drivers to escape speeding fines in EU as Brexit loophole exposed
BREXIT may mean British drivers avoid speeding fine




:cleader::cleader::cleader:


The UK’s departure from the European Union on 31 December has ended existing deals regarding motoring offences which could see thousands of drivers escape punishment. The EU’s cross-border enforcement directive no longer applies to road users which means information cannot be shared between borders.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...harge-loophole

1andrew1 13-01-2021 11:02
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36066472)
British drivers to escape speeding fines in EU as Brexit loophole exposed
BREXIT may mean British drivers avoid speeding fine

:cleader::cleader::cleader:

The UK’s departure from the European Union on 31 December has ended existing deals regarding motoring offences which could see thousands of drivers escape punishment. The EU’s cross-border enforcement directive no longer applies to road users which means information cannot be shared between borders.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...harge-loophole
And EU drivers in the UK will escape fines too.

Hugh 13-01-2021 11:03
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
And vice-versa...
Quote:
The new loophole also means the DVLA will not be able to get the details of European drivers caught breaking the law in the UK.
Of course, if the UK driver who sped ever goes back driving through France, they'll get them (and again, vice-versa).

papa smurf 13-01-2021 11:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36066473)
And EU drivers in the UK will escape fines too.
Speeding in the UK :shocked: it's damn near impossible to reach the speed limit, especially in Lincolnshire there's a tractor every half mile;)

pip08456 13-01-2021 19:50
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
This is first (as in EU-UK) I'm glad has gone to the EU rather than UK.

Quote:
The EU's food watchdog on Wednesday paved the way for diners across Europe to tuck into insects as it gave safety approval for human consumption of dried yellow mealworm.

The move by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) is the preliminary step needed before officials can decide whether to allow the beetle larvae to be sold to consumers across the 27-nation bloc.
Link

1andrew1 13-01-2021 19:52
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36066553)
This is first (as in EU-UK) I'm glad has gone to the EU rather than UK.

Link
Unfortunately, it was over budget for the free school meals pack. :D

mrmistoffelees 14-01-2021 11:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066474)
And vice-versa...

Of course, if the UK driver who sped ever goes back driving through France, they'll get them (and again, vice-versa).
Also, a lot of European countries issue on the spot fines. So, this only really works against speed cameras....

Hugh 14-01-2021 15:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status...149824/video/1

Quote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg - "The key is we've got our fish back. They are now British fish, & they're better & happier fish for it." 😬

Mr Speaker - Obviously there's overwhelming evidence for that.
:D

1andrew1 14-01-2021 16:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
1 Attachment(s)
I tend to be a bit sceptical of his Brexit judgments.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-eu-exit-uk-us

Mick 14-01-2021 16:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36066645)
I tend to be a bit sceptical of his Brexit judgments.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-eu-exit-uk-us
Funny that because I have been more sceptical to the crap you and Mr K have spouted for the last 4 years, which has been very much proven to be baseless. :dozey:

1andrew1 14-01-2021 16:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
More Project Fear
Quote:
Northern Ireland loses new Stena ferry as Brexit deal disrupts trade

Vessel switched to Ireland-France route after demand rises from traders wanting to avoid bureaucracy

Ferry operator Stena has removed a new vessel from a service between Northern Ireland and Britain in the latest sign that post-Brexit trade rules are driving traffic away from the UK.

The company has instead deployed the Stena Embla in the Republic of Ireland to meet surging demand for direct shipments to and from mainland Europe as traders change supply chains to avoid additional paperwork in Britain. Many companies that traditionally shipped goods between Ireland and Europe via Britain, a route known as the UK land bridge, have diverted this year to direct European shipments because of concern about procedures since the end of the Brexit transition period.

But Stena’s move was unplanned, coming only days after it introduced the Embla on its service between Belfast and Birkenhead in England, where it was supposed to replace one of its two smaller vessels on the route.

The Embla arrived in Belfast from China on January 2 but was reassigned to the south-eastern Irish port of Rosslare 11 days later in what the company described as a “Brexit-busting” move. It will replace a smaller vessel — one of two on a booming route between Rosslare and Cherbourg, France.
https://www.ft.com/content/085de325-...2-071fe89153e0

Carth 14-01-2021 16:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36066648)
. . from the FT? Nah, they don't do anti-Brexit stuff do they?

Anyway, the route between Rosslare and Cherbourg must be cheaper and quicker eh ;)

Sephiroth 14-01-2021 16:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Some settling down and re-orientations will obviously take place across the board.

Chris 14-01-2021 16:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Someone explain the downside of taking a shed-load of Ireland-EU HGVs off our roads please ...

Hugh 14-01-2021 17:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36066649)
. . from the FT? Nah, they don't do anti-Brexit stuff do they?

Anyway, the route between Rosslare and Cherbourg must be cheaper and quicker eh ;)
Here's one from those well-known Remainers, the Ferry Shipping News... :D

https://ferryshippingnews.com/stena-...ast-liverpool/

Chris 14-01-2021 18:02
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066660)
Here's one from those well-known Remainers, the Ferry Shipping News... :D

https://ferryshippingnews.com/stena-...ast-liverpool/
... which helpfully clarified that the vessel Stena Horizon, which is already assigned to Rosslare-Cherbourg, is in need of maintenance; and that the assignment of the new Birkenhead-Belfast vessel Stena Embla to the Rosslare-Cherbourg route is seen as temporary.

Though I’d still be curious to know what people think is the downside of getting HGV through traffic off our roads?

Hugh 14-01-2021 19:44
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36066667)
... which helpfully clarified that the vessel Stena Horizon, which is already assigned to Rosslare-Cherbourg, is in need of maintenance; and that the assignment of the new Birkenhead-Belfast vessel Stena Embla to the Rosslare-Cherbourg route is seen as temporary.

Though I’d still be curious to know what people think is the downside of getting HGV through traffic off our roads?
Anything that gets traffic off the roads is a good thing - you have to wonder, if it such a good thing, why they didn’t do it before?

I wonder what the benefit to the product shippers was, instead of shipping it direct to Ireland?

Chris 14-01-2021 19:51
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066681)
Anything that gets traffic off the roads is a good thing - you have to wonder, if it such a good thing, why they didn’t do it before?
I’m not sure what HMG could do about it. HMG couldn’t unilaterally close the border to HGVs while we were in the EU. They couldn’t introduce additional tolls for only foreign HGVs; they would have had to introduce them for domestic traffic as well, with all the additional cost to businesses that would entail. As long as the “UK land bridge” was quicker and cheaper for hauliers transiting to and from Ireland they would continue to use it. It is our exit from the EU that has allowed this to happen, though it is the side-effect of additional form-filling rather than a deliberate government traffic management strategy that has brought it about.

Of course once the new bureaucracy beds in, traffic may return to Dublin-Holyhead. The route via the UK is still significantly quicker for most destinations at either end. But I hope in the meantime the government takes note of the altered traffic patterns and pollution levels and draws useful lessons from them.

jonbxx 14-01-2021 21:57
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36066682)
I’m not sure what HMG could do about it. HMG couldn’t unilaterally close the border to HGVs while we were in the EU. They couldn’t introduce additional tolls for only foreign HGVs; they would have had to introduce them for domestic traffic as well, with all the additional cost to businesses that would entail. As long as the “UK land bridge” was quicker and cheaper for hauliers transiting to and from Ireland they would continue to use it. It is our exit from the EU that has allowed this to happen, though it is the side-effect of additional form-filling rather than a deliberate government traffic management strategy that has brought it about.
Unfortunately, the UK-EU agreement allows full transit rights between the UK and EU so an arbitrary blocking of EU traffic in to the UK might be a no no

Chris 15-01-2021 00:16
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36066691)
Unfortunately, the UK-EU agreement allows full transit rights between the UK and EU so an arbitrary blocking of EU traffic in to the UK might be a no no
I wouldn’t advocate that anyway ... it’s hardly neighbourly. However I still am not seeing the downside if there are now other factors pushing through-traffic away from the UK.

heero_yuy 15-01-2021 08:57
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
All those illegals jumping out of the back of lorries only to be confronted by a man dressed in green with a pig tucked under his arm speaking something other than English. :D

Paddy1 15-01-2021 10:20
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36066715)
All those illegals jumping out of the back of lorries only to be confronted by a man dressed in green with a pig tucked under his arm speaking something other than English. :D
I'm not quite sure how an illegal in Callais would end up on a lorry in Cherbourg but I'm more interested in this person dressed in green, holding a pig and speaking something other than English. Who is he or she? If they're not speaking English, what are they speaking? I have to admit, they sound fascinating.

heero_yuy 15-01-2021 10:52
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Irish HGV's not going through the UK to get to and from the EU. Do try to keep up. ;)

Mr K 15-01-2021 11:34
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
No surprise to see Govt promises on workers protections post Brexit quickly broken. The Victorian era here we come again....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...orkers-rights/
Quote:
Boris Johnson is considering a post-Brexit overhaul of labour laws to free businesses from regulations originally imposed by the EU.

The 48-hour working week is one of the regulations being targeted by the Government, it was reported on Thursday night, in a move that is likely to meet with resistance from trade unions.

Hugh 15-01-2021 11:47
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36066715)
All those illegals jumping out of the back of lorries only to be confronted by a man dressed in green with a pig tucked under his arm speaking something other than English. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy1 (Post 36066718)
I'm not quite sure how an illegal in Callais would end up on a lorry in Cherbourg but I'm more interested in this person dressed in green, holding a pig and speaking something other than English. Who is he or she? If they're not speaking English, what are they speaking? I have to admit, they sound fascinating.
I think they expected to see some chaps in three piece suits and bowler hats, eating jellied eels, carrying a copy of the Times, with a bulldog beside them...

Paddy1 15-01-2021 11:50
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36066719)
Irish HGV's not going through the UK to get to and from the EU. Do try to keep up. ;)
Surely they'll get on a different HGV that is going to the UK then since that's where the want to go ;)

Chris 15-01-2021 11:53
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066724)
I think they expected to see some chaps in three piece suits and bowler hats, eating jellied eels, carrying a copy of the Times, with a bulldog beside them...
Nah, those are the last remaining deep cover KGB agents who won’t believe the cold war’s over :D

Sephiroth 15-01-2021 11:58
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36066720)
No surprise to see Govt promises on workers protections post Brexit quickly broken. The Victorian era here we come again....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...orkers-rights/
The Trade Unions continually seek to break this country's back . For example, they've thoroughly worked London Transport over given the £50K + salaries of tube train drivers hence the enormous cost of fares.

The Torygraph article needs to be more fully understood and includes this selected text:

Quote:
Mr Johnson recently said there would be “big changes” to regulation this year but that the UK would not “regress” on workers’ rights and would not “send children up chimneys”.

But ministers believe the current laws, imported from EU law as part of the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement, can be tweaked to benefit both businesses and workers.
:
:
The Telegraph understands that options drawn up by officials include the removal of the requirement of businesses to log the daily reporting of working hours, saving firms money.
:
:
On Thursday night Kwasi Kwarteng, the Business Secretary, said: “We are not going to lower the standards of workers’ rights. The UK has one of the best workers’ rights records in the world - going further than the EU in many areas.


---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066724)
I think they expected to see some chaps in three piece suits and bowler hats, eating jellied eels, carrying a copy of the Times, with a bulldog beside them...
I do hope that Brexit has not kyboshed jellied eels.

Hugh 15-01-2021 13:10
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
If they don’t record the hours worked, how can it be proven that they are following the law?

Apparently, rules around rest breaks at work could also be under scrutiny.

Chris 15-01-2021 13:22
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066733)
If they don’t record the hours worked, how can it be proven that they are following the law?

Apparently, rules around rest breaks at work could also be under scrutiny.
Innocent until proven guilty?

Do businesses have to keep compliance records for absolutely everything, or only safety critical issues like COSHH, fire systems etc? It seems to me that working hours is something that can be raised as a complaint by staff.

Hugh 15-01-2021 13:44
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Difference between "compliance" and ‘assumed guilty"...

I have to have a MOT certificate for any car over 3 years old - is the assumption that everyone would immediately be driving unsafe cars if we didn’t have them, or to ensure that certain standards are met to ensure safety?

Carth 15-01-2021 14:31
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Boris Johnson is considering a post-Brexit overhaul of labour laws to free businesses from regulations originally imposed by the EU.

The 48-hour working week is one of the regulations being targeted by the Government, it was reported on Thursday night, in a move that is likely to meet with resistance from trade unions.
Good, it royally screwed up people who willingly worked overtime for the extra money they needed on minimum wage. The 'target' was those employers who forced workers to work long hours, but (again) the 'catch all' approach hit everybody. It also led to a rise in the much despised zero contract area, with Agencies supplying short term workers where a company couldn't use their own workforce to cover some situations.

Many workers got round it by doing two jobs, 8 hours shiftwork in a factory followed by a further 6 or more hours taxi driving or fast food delivery etc. Completely legal, yet made a mockery of the 48 hour crap.

Chris 15-01-2021 14:47
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066740)
Difference between "compliance" and ‘assumed guilty"...

I have to have a MOT certificate for any car over 3 years old - is the assumption that everyone would immediately be driving unsafe cars if we didn’t have them, or to ensure that certain standards are met to ensure safety?
That’s an example of proving an individual *has* done something - something safety-critical also.

Record-keeping in order to prove you *haven’t* given someone more than an average 48 working hours per week is categorically different. Arguably if you want a valid motoring comparison it’s like you being asked to keep records that you haven’t broken the speed limit, although even that has a much more significant safety angle than working hours. Of course people can install devices that record how they drive, but it’s expensive. So they aren’t compelled to do it.

There are safety critical things businesses must do, and must keep records to prove they are doing. Again, categorically different than keeping records to prove they’re *not* doing something that isn’t safety critical.

Mr K 15-01-2021 14:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36066727)
[COLOR="Blue"]The Trade Unions continually seek to break this country's back . For example, they've thoroughly worked London Transport over given the £50K + salaries of tube train drivers hence the enormous cost of fares.
Think you're in a 1970s time warp. Unions are hardly breaking the country these days.

Quite the opposite with zero hours contracts.Its employers that are breaking the workforce. Brexit takes us further in that direction.

Thank goodness Nurses aren't more militant or they'd have walked out long ago.

Hugh 15-01-2021 15:35
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36066743)
Good, it royally screwed up people who willingly worked overtime for the extra money they needed on minimum wage. The 'target' was those employers who forced workers to work long hours, but (again) the 'catch all' approach hit everybody. It also led to a rise in the much despised zero contract area, with Agencies supplying short term workers where a company couldn't use their own workforce to cover some situations.

Many workers got round it by doing two jobs, 8 hours shiftwork in a factory followed by a further 6 or more hours taxi driving or fast food delivery etc. Completely legal, yet made a mockery of the 48 hour crap.
Employees were able to "opt out" of the Working Time Directive (I did in nearly every job I worked since it came in - not to earn more money (fixed salary positions), but I regularly worked more than that).

https://www.acas.org.uk/the-maximum-...r-weekly-limit

jonbxx 15-01-2021 15:41
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36066743)
Good, it royally screwed up people who willingly worked overtime for the extra money they needed on minimum wage. The 'target' was those employers who forced workers to work long hours, but (again) the 'catch all' approach hit everybody. It also led to a rise in the much despised zero contract area, with Agencies supplying short term workers where a company couldn't use their own workforce to cover some situations.

Many workers got round it by doing two jobs, 8 hours shiftwork in a factory followed by a further 6 or more hours taxi driving or fast food delivery etc. Completely legal, yet made a mockery of the 48 hour crap.
There was always the option to 'opt out' of the WTD restrictions (link) This does have to come from the employee, you can't be forced to opt out or be fired if you refuse.

My work contract says that my work hours are 38.5 hours per week but there may be times where it is higher. This covers travelling for example - flying to Shanghai is seriously going to eat into your work week!

Carth 15-01-2021 15:53
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
OK you guys obviously know more than someone who experienced it, many thanks for your (office worker) input :p:

jonbxx 15-01-2021 16:49
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36066752)
Employees were able to "opt out" of the Working Time Directive (I did in nearly every job I worked since it came in - not to earn more money (fixed salary positions), but I regularly worked more than that).

https://www.acas.org.uk/the-maximum-...r-weekly-limit
My Belgian colleague had a sweet contract where any time spent outside his core hours spent travelling could be compensated as time off in lieu. I would have loved some of that action!

Hugh 15-01-2021 16:57
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36066757)
OK you guys obviously know more than someone who experienced it, many thanks for your (office worker) input :p:
My link was to ACAS - here is another link to the U.K. Government’s website saying the same thing

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-wo...and-opting-out
Quote:
You can choose to work more than 48 hours a week on average if you’re over 18. This is called ‘opting out’.

Your employer can ask you to opt out, but you can’t be sacked or treated unfairly for refusing to do so.

You can opt out for a certain period or indefinitely. It must be voluntary and in writing.

Example of opt-out agreement:

I [worker’s name] agree that I may work for more than an average of 48 hours a week. If I change my mind, I will give my employer [amount of time - up to 3 months’] notice in writing to end this agreement. Signed…………………………………… Dated…………………………………….

Workers who can’t opt out
You can’t opt-out of the 48 hour week if you’re:

airline staff
a worker on ships or boats
a worker in the road transport industry, eg delivery drivers (except for drivers of vehicles under 3.5 tonnes using GB Domestic drivers’ hours rules)
other staff who travel in and operate vehicles covered by EU rules on drivers’ hours, eg bus conductors
a security guard on a vehicle carrying high-value goods
Confederation of British Industry

https://www.hrreview.co.uk/hr-news/e...directive/1250
Quote:
The Confederation of British Industry (CBI) has spoken out in favour of the UK’s opt out of the European Union (EU) working time directive.

According to Louise Morgan, senior policy adviser in the employer and employee relations team at the CBI, the move means that staff have kept the right to choose their own working hours.

In addition, it means that firms have the flexibility to respond to peaks in demand, she added.
So, the Government think you can opt out, the Bosses think you can opt out, and the independent people who work with millions of employers and employees every year to improve workplace relationships think you can opt out.

1andrew1 15-01-2021 17:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36066649)
. . from the FT? Nah, they don't do anti-Brexit stuff do they?

Anyway, the route between Rosslare and Cherbourg must be cheaper and quicker eh ;)
This almost timeless Yes Minister take on newspapers may amuse. :D Not sure you would be allowed the punchline on TV these days.
https://twitter.com/RichardGlazer/st...86129335169028

Sephiroth 15-01-2021 20:26
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36066764)
This almost timeless Yes Minister take on newspapers may amuse. :D Not sure you would be allowed the punchline on TV these days.
https://twitter.com/RichardGlazer/st...86129335169028
Priceless - alongside the British Sausage speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJnA7ft8X0w

1andrew1 16-01-2021 10:58
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36066790)
Priceless - alongside the British Sausage speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJnA7ft8X0w
The post-speech interview is brilliant! :D

---------- Post added at 09:58 ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36066757)
OK you guys obviously know more than someone who experienced it, many thanks for your (office worker) input :p:
No offence mate but could it be possible that your employer was misinformed, misunderstood or misrepresented the directive?

Angua 16-01-2021 17:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36066743)
Good, it royally screwed up people who willingly worked overtime for the extra money they needed on minimum wage. The 'target' was those employers who forced workers to work long hours, but (again) the 'catch all' approach hit everybody. It also led to a rise in the much despised zero contract area, with Agencies supplying short term workers where a company couldn't use their own workforce to cover some situations.

Many workers got round it by doing two jobs, 8 hours shiftwork in a factory followed by a further 6 or more hours taxi driving or fast food delivery etc. Completely legal, yet made a mockery of the 48 hour crap.
Also avoided a load of NI payments if they worked for under the income level for several different employers.

RichardCoulter 16-01-2021 19:35
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
The idea to build our own satellite nagivation system has been scrapped:

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-s...place-galileo/

Wouldn't it be cheaper to pay to be part of the EU Galileo system?

Sephiroth 16-01-2021 20:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I have worked on Galileo and it was a bitter disappoint to me that the EU cut us off immediately upon the Referendum result. Immediately. It was an impressive technological venture. The only "but" was Blair's ambition to use it for pay-as-you-go road pricing and similar sly purposes. https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../1210/1210.pdf

OLD BOY 17-01-2021 20:55
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
The opt out gives employees the right not to work more than 48 hours per week, but it does not enable anyone to opt out of the remaining constraints of the regulations, which can prove extremely problematic for employers.

Hugh 18-01-2021 09:08
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36067003)
The opt out gives employees the right not to work more than 48 hours per week, but it does not enable anyone to opt out of the remaining constraints of the regulations, which can prove extremely problematic for employers.
Could you provide some examples, please?

1andrew1 18-01-2021 14:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Car manufacturers, the music sector, Northern Ireland supermarkets...Brexit's not working out well for them. You'd think it would be working for fishermen who were cited many times by Vote Leave. It would appear not. The Scottish Fishermen's Federation sems to be having lots of Bregrets.
Quote:
Police slap Scottish seafood truckers with Covd fines for 'unnecessary journeys' as they descend on No10 - after fishermen vowed to dump tons of rotten fish on PM's doorstep over Brexit border chaos
  1. More than 20 shellfish trucks are parked on roads near 10 Downing Street and Houses of Parliament today
  2. They are protesting against post-Brexit bureaucracy that has stopped them exporting to European Union
  3. Trucks have slogans such as 'Brexit carnage' and 'incompetent government destroying shellfish industry'
  4. Fishermen have found European buyers rejecting stocks this month after introduction of more paperwork
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-Street.html

Quote:
Scottish fishermen have resorted to sailing to Denmark to land their catch as Brexit red tape continues to delay exports, an industry body has said.

The Scottish Fishermen's Federation, which campaigned to leave the EU, also said the Brexit trade deal was the worst of both worlds for the industry.

Many fishermen "now fear for their future", it said.

The UK government said the deal would "bring immediate gains to our fishermen and women across the whole UK".

Late last year, the Scottish Fishermen's Federation (SFF) said it was "deeply aggrieved" by the Brexit deal.

Fishing firms have also warned of impending bankruptcy as delays continue at ports following the introduction of post-Brexit regulations.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55669168

OLD BOY 18-01-2021 15:16
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
The fishermen need to stop protesting and just get on with the paperwork! If they don’t disclose what is required at the border, what do they expect?

The bigger companies are fairly confident that they are on top of this. If they are correct, the massive delays expected at the ports this week should not transpire, unless these small operators jam everything up.

Government help is available; they should take it and stop whingeing.

jfman 18-01-2021 15:20
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36067042)
The fishermen need to stop protesting and just get on with the paperwork! If they don’t disclose what is required at the border, what do they expect?

The bigger companies are fairly confident that they are on top of this. If they are correct, the massive delays expected at the ports this week should not transpire, unless these small operators jam everything up.

Government help is available; they should take it and stop whingeing.
:D

Comedy gold, OB.

Hugh 18-01-2021 15:46
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36067042)
The fishermen need to stop protesting and just get on with the paperwork! If they don’t disclose what is required at the border, what do they expect?

The bigger companies are fairly confident that they are on top of this. If they are correct, the massive delays expected at the ports this week should not transpire, unless these small operators jam everything up.

Government help is available; they should take it and stop whingeing.
You may find this informative/enlightening...

https://twitter.com/daniellambert29/...662987777?s=21

Quote:
Over the past 15 days I have not only been running my company as normal but I have been faced with largest threat to its future since it began in 1992. This is #Brexit & here is my thread on just how bad things are getting.

Six months ago my business started to prepare for Brexit. We obtained the following licences and accreditations JUST to maintain the status quo. EORI number, RORO badge for Chief, GBRC number, GBWK number, we already had ARWS and DAN accounts.

All of this took nearly five months a lot of form filling but on the 9th December this was all in place. So I would say whilst we knew Brexit would be a car crash we did not know it was going to be a multiple pile up in the fog with fatalities.

On January 4th I returned to work being wise enough to have stockpiled just enough so that if we had a bumpy ride in January we would have enough stock to last until February. I should add this took a considerable amount of cash flow and management to do this during a lockdown/ pandemic combined with Xmas sales. But we managed.

On my Return in January I started to use Chief for the very first time. It was not possible to use this system prior to Brexit or necessary as it was very simple to move stock in the EU with minimal fuss and delay with the EMCS system.

It’s fair to say it worked like clockwork after 40 years of tweaks to get the system just right. But in Brexit Britain we are very much on our own & so this British system (CHIEF) has now got every product the U.K. consumes in its grasp.
However the problem with CHIEF is that it was built decades ago and was never designed to handle EU imports too! Why would leave a system (EMCS) that works for one that does not?

A CHIEF declaration (C88) has up to 65 boxes to complete. Some of these are very simple like excise number and parties involved on the import. So basic stuff. Others however are very vague codes. CHIEF is there for the Government to collect tax, that is its primary purpose. It’s not there to aid businesses. It definitely hinders business. On this point no debate is required. Most of the other boxes are codes that have zero meaning.

Now unbeknown to me until January all hauliers use secondary software to over write onto CHIEF because is so hard to use. There is currently a 4 month waiting list for new installations of this software which costs £2K all in.

I have been imputing directly to CHIEF which I should add costs £157 per month to be able to access. Yes thats right folks you have to pay to tell the government how much your going to pay them. The first Brexit dividend.

Now after 14 days I finally complete my first C88 declaration but noticed I was paying the 3rd countries tariff. Odd I thought to myself I am sure just three weeks ago the U.K. signed an FTA with the EU to make all goods tariff free. So I used my contacts to find out more.

Now you would think that government would want to make using CHIEF as easy as possible as now there are millions of businesses having to use it.
So you would think that a call centre would be a good idea right? No wrong, this is the ONLY HMRC system where there is no number to call. Just an email with a 5 day turn around. Remember that when government say they are doing all they can to help.

So with the knowledge that government are not interested in making Brexit easy for businesses and in many cases businesses are just trying to survive, we have ploughed on regardless. Again you would think if there is a FTA, CHIEF would apply it to all imports from that area/ country right? Wrong you have to claim it. Unbelievable!

Claiming a tariff free status was yesterday’s game with CHIEF. To be fair deep in the CHIEF files I found the notes to apply the codes to the system required (U 110 followed by AP for example) but problem is after triple checking, CHIEF has not been updated properly.

So once again I can’t import wine via my own means until I wait for CHIEF staff( normally five working days) for them to advise how to correct the problem and complete the declaration correctly tariff free.

So what does this all mean for the consumers? Well to supply the U.K. the exporter need to get a Rex document to prove the origin of their stock to the U.K. government (again, unbelievable). Then with all the additional costs in Paperwork, time wasted, government fees to tell the government how much your paying them and delays in the supply chain it’s obvious price are upward bound.

So this is why I have been saying wine per bottle on retail will increase by at least £1 per bottle for mass market products, for niche small batch wines your looking at £1.50 or even £2.00 on the bottle prices.

papa smurf 18-01-2021 16:09
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36067047)
You may find this informative/enlightening...

https://twitter.com/daniellambert29/...662987777?s=21
What has that got to do with the price of fish?

Hugh 18-01-2021 16:45
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36067050)
What has that got to do with the price of fish?
It’s to do with small companies (as referred to by OB) getting stuff across the border.

papa smurf 18-01-2021 17:00
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36067064)
It’s to do with small companies (as referred to by OB) getting stuff across the border.
I know a man who can help with that;)

Sephiroth 18-01-2021 17:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36067047)
You may find this informative/enlightening...

https://twitter.com/daniellambert29/...662987777?s=21
That is shocking.

1andrew1 18-01-2021 17:58
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36067079)
That is shocking.
Agreed. The government needs to make the basics work. A good start would be setting up a call centre for this cumbersome database. A medium term solution would be to replace it with something far more user-friendly. These fishermen haven't come all the way down to London in their HGVs for no reason.

Sephiroth 18-01-2021 18:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36067082)
Agreed. The government needs to make the basics work. A good start would be setting up a call centre for this cumbersome database. A medium term solution would be to replace it with something far more user-friendly. These fishermen haven't come all the way down to London in their HGVs for no reason.
... and shouldn't be fined.

TheDaddy 19-01-2021 04:23
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I'm past caring, no point moaning or protesting about it now

1andrew1 19-01-2021 17:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36067024)
Could you provide some examples, please?
Whilst Old Boy assembles his immutable evidence, many in business seem to be saying the opposite.
Quote:
Boris Johnson has told 30 leading chief executives that he will seize “the opportunities of Brexit” and use Britain’s new regulatory freedoms to help rebuild Britain’s economy after the Covid-19 crisis....

The CBI employers’ federation said there was little appetite for the UK to pursue deregulation to create a “Singapore on Thames” after the prime minister asked business leaders this month for ideas on how to cut red tape.

Rain Newton-Smith, chief economist at the CBI, said: “I don’t get any sense from the business community that there is a drive to have a race to be Singapore-on-Thames. They want to ensure we have the right protection for workers, and the right system to incentivise investment.”
https://www.ft.com/content/1c4942da-...e-ea78f73c7f9b

Chris 19-01-2021 18:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
The CBI has worn its remainer sentiments on its sleeve throughout. Newton-Smith may present himself as an impartial observer of what the “business community” wants ... but he isn’t.

TheDaddy 21-01-2021 19:17
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
168% increase in lorries being refused entry into Europe from UK due to not having correct paperwork apparently

1andrew1 21-01-2021 23:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Businesses aren't complaianing about the 48-hour working week as an opt-out can be added to employment contracts. Customs delays and red tape have been the issues to date. And now this.
Quote:
Businesses miss out on Covid cash after UK sticks to EU state-aid rules

Companies angry at being locked out of £4.6bn grant scheme because they have already passed agreed cap on support

Large companies have complained to ministers that hundreds of millions of pounds of support is being blocked after a decision to stick with certain EU state-aid rules even though the UK has left the trading bloc.

Some businesses say they have been locked out of the government’s £4.6bn emergency Covid-19 grant scheme announced this month, leaving jobs hanging in the balance as they face an indefinite period of forced closure in the latest national lockdown.

Last year the UK government agreed that individual companies would not receive more than €4m each in grants to deal with the Covid-19 crisis, after signing up to the European Commission’s “state-aid temporary framework”.

The emergency measures initially allowed EU member states to give grants of up to €800,000 to struggling companies before the cap was lifted to €4m.

But some large British companies, including retailers, have already reached the limit from grants used last year — with some not even able to qualify for the higher threshold owing to other criteria — despite having to close down their stores again this month.

Executives are demanding to know why ministers appear to be obeying an EU edict when Britain has left the bloc.
https://www.ft.com/content/6faf5793-...a-1e5bb79b884f

1andrew1 22-01-2021 01:25
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Some good news. Let's hope the other car manufacturers follow suit.
Quote:
Brexit has given competitive edge on car battery tariffs, says Nissan chief

Owner of UK’s largest car factory to push ahead with new Qashqai and says UK leaving the EU has been positive for the company

Nissan has said Brexit has given the company an edge, as the Japanese carmaker said it will buy more batteries from within the UK to avoid tariffs.

The owner of the UK’s largest car factory, in Sunderland, also said it would push ahead with the production of a new version of its Qashqai SUV this year, after it delayed the new model as the coronavirus pandemic wrought havoc on car sales and production.

Ashwani Gupta, Nissan’s chief operating officer, said: “Brexit gives us the competitive advantage not only within the United Kingdom but outside the United Kingdom also.”

Speaking from Nissan’s Yokohama headquarters, Gupta said the Brexit deal had turned out to be positive for the carmaker. The advantage comes because it is not reliant on batteries imported from east Asia, unlike many of its rivals. From 2027 all British and European carmakers will have to source batteries from either the UK or EU, as agreed in the Brexit deal, or face tariffs on their exports.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-nissan-chief

nomadking 22-01-2021 02:08
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36067464)
Businesses aren't complaianing about the 48-hour working week as an opt-out can be added to employment contracts. Customs delays and red tape have been the issues to date. And now this.

https://www.ft.com/content/6faf5793-...a-1e5bb79b884f
Nonsense. Germany has consistently spent a great deal more on state aid pre-covid and since. We are nowhere near German levels, so have lots of room to spend more.
Link

Quote:
The UK public sector has spent less in business support than most other EU countries. In 2018, the UK spent 0.38% of GDP on state aid (excluding railways, and agriculture and fisheries), while France spent 0.79% and Germany 1.45%.
2018 EU report
Quote:
UK 9.2bn Euros
France 18.6bn Euros
Germany 48.6bn Euros
48.6 is just more than a tad greater than 9.2.
Covid related aid
Quote:
It is not an even game, however, as richer or less indebted states have more scope to channel funds.
While Germany makes up for about a quarter of the EU’s GDP, it accounts for some 52% of the total value of the emergency coronavirus state aid cleared so far, Commission data shows.
France and Italy share joint second place, each with 17% of the total, and the Commission plans to maintain its hands-off approach till at least the end of 2020.
Quote:
Germany granted a €3 billion government-backed loan to sports retailer Adidas, a €1.8 billion loan commitment to holiday operator TUI and is in talks with Lufthansa on a €9 billion rescue package, among others.

jfman 22-01-2021 02:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
So state aid promotes economic growth? Interesting...

Dido Harding aid gets hee haw.

1andrew1 22-01-2021 10:22
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36067479)
Nonsense. Germany has consistently spent a great deal more on state aid pre-covid and since. We are nowhere near German levels, so have lots of room to spend more.
Link

2018 EU report
48.6 is just more than a tad greater than 9.2.
Covid related aid
"Nonsense" does not take the debate forwards. The UK Government is definitely applying these rules regardless of any tangential information you may have found.

Sephiroth 22-01-2021 10:55
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36067480)
So state aid promotes economic growth? Interesting...

Dido Harding aid gets hee haw.
I detect a note of provocation here!

You know as well as I that state aid as seed money for economic output promotes growth. The trick is to select programmes wisely. Energy generation, battery research/design/production, infrastructure - come to mind.

Your (reasonable) snipe at Dido Harding doesn't belong under your question.

tweetiepooh 22-01-2021 13:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Me thinks there is some posturing on all sides complaining/supporting the change and it's the smaller businesses that will get hit as they don't have the bandwidth the large companies do or the resources to weather the storm as well.

What is also getting problematic is VAT etc. I don't know what happened before but probably something like you buy from (say) Spain, pay Spanish taxes and postage and that's it. Now you should avoid Spanish tax (maybe) but pay UK taxes which since the Spanish company doesn't want to deal with (and why should they) you pay on receipt of goods.
Maybe what's needed is to buy from UK companies who should be able to trade normally and collect any relevant taxes at point of sale.
Maybe HMRC could increase point of taxation so more smaller purchases can pass through freely. Only tax at levels it's actually worth collecting and put exemptions for couriers so they can't gouge end point customers. Or at least make it easier for them so their costs aren't hugely increased.

I really am sure that something can be worked out but it needs to be quick and needs to put in allowances for smaller businesses and especially those trading in "fresh stuff".

Damien 22-01-2021 14:09
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
It's the same rules for if you were to buy something from the United States isn't it? I don't get the stories of people being 'surprised' they have to pay fees and taxes on what they've purchased in the EU, we knew this was coming.

It's the same nothing story as these 'I've got to do more paperwork to sell to the EU!?!!' stories. Yes! Well done. Where have you been for the last 4 years.

---------- Post added at 13:09 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36067543)
Maybe HMRC could increase point of taxation so more smaller purchases can pass through freely. Only tax at levels it's actually worth collecting and put exemptions for couriers so they can't gouge end point customers. Or at least make it easier for them so their costs aren't hugely increased.
If you get that wrong then you risk undercutting British sellers and lose VAT on purchases that would otherwise have been made here. Especially on countries that don't charge a tax on online purchases. I.E Let's say they increase to £2,000 then if I wanted an iPad then it's a 20% discount for buying from America even before their already cheaper prices. Obviously some of that would be offset by higher shipping costs.

---------- Post added at 13:09 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36067543)
Maybe HMRC could increase point of taxation so more smaller purchases can pass through freely. Only tax at levels it's actually worth collecting and put exemptions for couriers so they can't gouge end point customers. Or at least make it easier for them so their costs aren't hugely increased.
If you get that wrong then you risk undercutting British sellers and lose VAT on purchases that would otherwise have been made here. Especially on countries that don't charge a tax on online purchases. I.E Let's say they increase to £2,000 then if I wanted an iPad then it's a 20% discount for buying from America even before their already cheaper prices. Obviously some of that would be offset by higher shipping costs.

nomadking 22-01-2021 14:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I thought the EU had already put in place rules that said the VAT had to be directed to the destination country? Previously something bought in France, by somebody in the UK, had to pay UK VAT. EU prices should now be VAT free, with UK VAT applied at entry to the UK. Should be no, or little price difference.
Link

Quote:
For EU-based companies, VAT is chargeable on most sales and purchases of goods within the EU. In such cases, VAT is charged and due in the EU country where the goods are consumed by the final consumer. Likewise, VAT is charged on services at the time they are carried out in each EU country.
VAT isn't charged on exports of goods to countries outside the EU. In these cases, VAT is charged and due in the country of import and you don't need to declare any VAT as an exporter. However, when exporting goods you will need to provide documentation as proof that the goods were transported outside the EU. Such proof could be provided by presenting a copy of an invoice, a transportation document or an import customs record to your tax authorities.
You will need to provide this proof to be able to fully deduct any receivable VAT that you have paid in a previous related transaction leading up to the export. Insufficient documentation may mean you won't have the right to a VAT reimbursement when exporting goods.
Are people looking at EU prices that now exclude VAT, and not being aware that the VAT is due later?

Damien 22-01-2021 14:20
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I just checked an EU based site I used to order from and the prices are the same even after I get to the last stage of the order.

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

In some cases it might be hard to tell though because I don't know if they're handling that for me?

jfman 22-01-2021 14:29
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Is it not more likely that the business in the EU will charge their usual price, not pay the VAT in their country (as it left the EU) and pocket the difference themselves?

tweetiepooh 22-01-2021 14:35
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
But the level is at around £140 so on nett price £28 VAT at 20%. How much does it cost to collect that £28? There must be a point at which the amount collected is greater than the cost of collection.

But there is all the problems as you mentioned of source countries not taxing at all (but that's their loss). The problems include where the UK tax is collected (if at all) and ensuring that cost is know to the purchaser at time of purchase.

Buying from the US (or anywhere outside EU) always required collecting the tax somewhere if not collected at point of sale. Could be it be added to the carriage charge if the seller passes all that on to the carrier and the carrier pays the relevant amount to HMRC? But then how to prevent carrier adding silly charges to cover that, but if big enough they should already have mechanisms in place to pay tax.

I just bought some new pans, French. The best buy originally was from a Dutch company that had free postage over £50. Now carriage is £11. I bought from (I think) a UK company that is cheaper but charges postage under £100. The total cost of items from the Netherlands was cheaper because pans cam to just over £50, but now cheaper the other way round. Even with VAT prices where cheaper from second company.

It's all a mess and not helped with some folk getting in the way where it really shouldn't happen. I believe it will get sorted out but something needs to happen to help those smaller traders (especially fresh stuff) keep going until it all is.

As consumers we often can "see the way" because we are making small, individual transactions. I really can't see why things are more difficult now other than obstacles being put in the way. We could have a free trade agreement and let goods move as they always have done. What are either side afraid of that couldn't have already been a problem as part of the EU as far as moving stuff around goes?

1andrew1 22-01-2021 15:23
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Some information here on the changes
Quote:
The loss of Distance Selling thresholds for UK e-commerce sellers of goods to EU consumers. Goods are now be subject to import VAT, and UK sellers will have to consider VAT registering in Europe immediately. Similarly, EU e-commerce sellers may now need to register immediately for UK VAT if they have been selling to UK consumers under the £70,000 threshold.
Any UK business with a foreign VAT registration in the EU may now face the obligation to appoint a special VAT fiscal representative. This applies in 19 of the 27 EU states. These agents hold direct liablity for any unpaid VAT, and therefore require cash deposits or bank guarantees in exchange.

The scrapping of the UK £15 low-value consignment stock relief which exempts imports of goods (including from the rest of EU after Brexit) from VAT. Instead, for goods at £135 or below, sellers or their postal service have to declare and pay to HMRC via a new, quarterly filing, VAT charged at the point-of-sale.

For UK sellers of digital services to EU consumers, the UK is no longer be a member of the EU Mini One-Stop-Shop single VAT return scheme. UK sellers of electronic, broadcast or telecoms services to consumers will therefore have register in any other EU state, as a non-Union businesses, to continue to file their VAT declarations for EU e-service sales. EU sellers into the UK have to now register with the UK’s HMRC for the same declaration. Any non-EU business which used the UK MOSS registration now has to reregister for MOSS in the EU and separately in the UK under a regular VAT return.

There are limited changes on the Brexit VAT on services for B2B transactions after the UK leaves the EU VAT regime. The reverse charge will still apply. In the future, the UK may deviate from some of the use and enjoyment rules. There are changes on certain cross-border B2C services to EU consumers (and vice-a-versa).

UK businesses incurring EU VAT on travel, hotel or other expenses are no longer be able to use the 8thDirective online VAT reclaim system operated via HMRC. Instead, they must use the 13th Directive paper-based reclaim process. This requires individual claims to each country where there is a VAT claim. Last UK claims via the 8th Directive will be for the final quarter of 2020.
https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/v...dec-20200.html

Chris 22-01-2021 15:43
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
It seems to me that there are opportunities here for UK based businesses to capitalise where the additional complexity has disincentivized EU businesses to sell into the UK.

papa smurf 22-01-2021 15:45
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36067565)
It seems to me that there are opportunities here for UK based businesses to capitalise where the additional complexity has disincentivized EU businesses to sell into the UK.
Are you trying to say buy British;)

RichardCoulter 22-01-2021 15:47
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36067550)
I just checked an EU based site I used to order from and the prices are the same even after I get to the last stage of the order.

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

In some cases it might be hard to tell though because I don't know if they're handling that for me?
I've been hearing about people that have ordered and paid for goods, but now the sellers say they won't release them until other charges are paid that arose as a result of Brexit. These charges weren't mentioned on the websites or asked for at the time the orders were placed.

If you need to use this site again to place an order it would be interesting to hear if you are then asked for more money before the goods are released.

Edit: Found this:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...rs-have-to-pay

Chris 22-01-2021 15:52
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36067566)
Are you trying to say buy British;)
Yup :D

We definitely should, for all sorts of reasons related to the health of our own economy, because it’s only our own economy that funds essential government services. It’s also environmentally questionable to have complex supply chains snaking all over Europe, with the fuel burning required to move components and finished products back and forth.

RichardCoulter 22-01-2021 15:53
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
UK accused of 'petty behaviour' over EU diplomat:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55753669

Chris 22-01-2021 15:57
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36067570)
UK accused of 'petty behaviour' over EU diplomat:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55753669
I wondered whether someone would post this. I nearly did yesterday but couldn’t be bothered in the end. :D

The EU is not a nation state. It can send its representatives wherever it wants and if other countries, for their own reasons, want to grant their mission staff full diplomatic privileges that’s their business. However, we’re not obliged to do so. I see no reason why we should be giving Eurocrats carte blanche to ignore their parking tickets. They can pay up like the rest of us.

Unless of course the EU is actually a federal state in which case it can have the diplomatic status and France, Germany and the rest can surrender it...

jfman 22-01-2021 16:09
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Bad news for anyone that works there and wants run someone over in a car and flee back to the EU.

Hugh 22-01-2021 16:35
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36067571)
I wondered whether someone would post this. I nearly did yesterday but couldn’t be bothered in the end. :D

The EU is not a nation state. It can send its representatives wherever it wants and if other countries, for their own reasons, want to grant their mission staff full diplomatic privileges that’s their business. However, we’re not obliged to do so. I see no reason why we should be giving Eurocrats carte blanche to ignore their parking tickets. They can pay up like the rest of us.

Unless of course the EU is actually a federal state in which case it can have the diplomatic status and France, Germany and the rest can surrender it...
Or...

We could just behave like 142 other countries (including the USA).

Quote:
The British decision is in marked contrast to 142 other countries around the world where the EU has delegations and where its ambassadors are all granted the same status as diplomats representing sovereign nations.
and
Quote:
EU officials privately accuse the Foreign Office of hypocrisy because when the EU's foreign service - known as the External Action Service - was set up in 2010 as a result of the Lisbon Treaty, the UK signed up to proposals that EU diplomats be granted the "privileges and immunities equivalent to those referred to in the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 18 April 1961".

papa smurf 22-01-2021 16:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36067571)
I wondered whether someone would post this. I nearly did yesterday but couldn’t be bothered in the end. :D

The EU is not a nation state. It can send its representatives wherever it wants and if other countries, for their own reasons, want to grant their mission staff full diplomatic privileges that’s their business. However, we’re not obliged to do so. I see no reason why we should be giving Eurocrats carte blanche to ignore their parking tickets. They can pay up like the rest of us.

Unless of course the EU is actually a federal state in which case it can have the diplomatic status and France, Germany and the rest can surrender it...
Hope we confiscated his sandwiches and pop;)

Chris 22-01-2021 16:47
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36067580)
Or...

We could just behave like 142 other countries (including the USA).

and
As I said, I read it yesterday ;)

I’m aware other countries choose to grant them diplomatic status but that’s their business. We are simply under no obligation to grant diplomatic immunity to representatives of an international organisation, even if other countries have chosen to do so. Barnier’s special pleading about the institution’s status doesn’t hold water. If the EU has in fact become what our own remain-minded commentators have always insisted it isn’t - a federal state of its own - then of course it can have full ambassadors here - as soon as the French, German and Italian ones go home. We have a US ambassador here; we do not have a Californian one.

EU officials having a private grumble that (quelle horreur) the British Government position today differs from the one it held a decade ago are simply betraying their continuing inability to understand that the British government has fundamentally changed its approach to the EU as a result of the democratic referendum held here in 2016.


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