Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Okay! Can anyone point to a particular reliable source as to the antisemitism in the Labour Party?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

The Israeli Government?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

The Labour Party?

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/upl...tisemitism.pdf

The Equality and Human Rights Commission?

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/...n-labour-party

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I don't know (or care) about the people involved, but my opinion is that there are people who spend much of their time trawling through legal documents, written papers, social media etc with the intention of finding something to complain about.

Political Correctness . . get a life you weirdos :D

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

For one Andrew l don't think there is a power vacuum unless the media invent one and two should this not be in another thread.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

How about some ACTUAL incidents? All that is just regulations and witch huntery.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

So the part I quoted previously from the Labour Party is just a witch-hunt?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Depends who wrote it, whether they were actively searching for items like that, and how they interpreted it to suit an agenda . . is my guess :p:

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

really?! a blind man could find examples. I'm assuming the 25 people in this story had displayed no anti-Semitic behaviour.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/l...e-day-1.496742

I take it you're a member of the "it's all just a conspiracy against cuddly Corbyn" crowd?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

An actual link to a specific situation would help.

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------

Thank you.Got anymore?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

https://news.sky.com/story/12-shocki...ssier-11879053 Also

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/l...ings-cg8rv00mq

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Also Corbyn defending that mural which was blatantly anti-semitic to anyone who studied GCSE History and dealt with Nazi propaganda.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I agree with you on this, Pierre. I'm astonished that anyone with web access could entertain another view, the point has been proved far too many times.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

How many do you need?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Sir Keir Starmer's name has rather rude meaning in Iran - causing 'linguistic dilemma'

Sir Keir Starmer’s election as leader of the Labour party has been lost in translation – because his name reportedly means “bell-end” in Iran.


:shrug: It means the same here ;)

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/pol...-rude-21849294

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

ALL of them.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I suppose the holocost never happened either.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Don't think you can blame Corbyn for that. Strange how those desperate to find anything on him turn a blind eye to Boris comparing Muslim women to letterboxes....

Anyway thought this thread was about Sir Keir Starmer ?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Well, burkas are not exactly flattering, are they Mr K? You know the context in which he said that, let's not go over that nonsense again.

I used to look like a penguin in my suit. If someone said I looked like a penguin, would I be offended? We need to lighten up.

Yes, this is about Sir Keir Starmer. It was you who raised Boris and his letterbox speech. Sir Keir is a welcome replacement for Corbyn, and although I doubt he will win the next election, at least we won't all be scared to death about the threat of descending into some kind of Venezualan nightmare.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

When this grave national crisis is eventually over, and politics once again returns to the fore the Conservatives are going to find that the 5 years when there was no opposition at all apart from Trotsky Corbyn and his comrades and where there was no alternative to the governing party will have come to an abrupt end.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Why's that, are the Lib dems planning something?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Who? :D

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

You're probably too young to remember them ;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I'd like to see Sir Kier's credible alternatives before I comment on that! Frankly, he's got an uphill struggle. Once Boris is back on his feet and this emergency is over, people will be surprised at what can be achieved, and his popularity will be difficult for Sir Kier to overcome.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

It was very easy to reduce Jeremy Corbyn’s credibility to rubble, because Jeremy Corbyn has spent his entire career doing that himself, attaching himself to every self-loathing cause he could find.

It’s true that Starmer does not have that same deep level of unelectability, however what is that observation actually worth? His policy platform hasn’t significantly changed from Corbyn’s, and thanks to Corbyn he has a massive electoral deficit to claw back in parliamentary constituencies that should have been safe. The sort of reverse he needs to pull off at the next election is unheard of in modern history.

And “Well at least I’m not Jeremy” isn’t very inspiring is it?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Being a titled millionaire doesn't sit well with the workers either.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Boris Johnson is a millionaire who went to Eton and Oxford. Workers went for him. I don't think voters care too much about someone's background in that sense.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Yes, the working class don’t like anyone who has worked their way up from nothing to being successful, they much prefer people who had an entitled upbringing...:rolleyes:

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Difference being Boris inherited his wealth, Sir Keir earnt his, coming from a humble background (mother a nurse, father a toolmaker). He might well appeal to a few Tories ;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

If there's a group who can spin it the Great British media will find a way to nail Starmer this way ignoring the reality.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Well they'll try as they do with all Labour leaders, but Sir Keir won't be as easy a target. Plus British newspapers are dying with less readers all the time. 5 years of massive debt, inevitable increased taxes compounded by the Brexit fallout will be bigger factors.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

So we have the left supporters defending a self made millionaire, who has no doubt avoided paying his fair share of taxes. Had he been a Tory those same members would be queuing up to condemn him as a bourgeois capitalist.

Hypocrisy :rolleyes:

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

More nonsense as a little Googling will tell you he's in favour of the rich paying more tax.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/ke...amazon-1382706

---------- Post added at 18:28 ---------- Previous post was at 18:26 ----------

Hardest thing for any opposition leader is offering an alternative to the current Government's policies.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I'll support anyone who backs a socialist platform and has paid their taxes. A billionaire supporting a socialist agenda isn't a bad person because they've done well with the cards they've been dealt. If they support reform I'd support them.

Curiously, can you back up your allegation here?

I'd be at the front of the queue to condemn him if so.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-keir-starmer

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

”left supporters"?

Ah, you know me so well... :D

(btw, he, like Corbyn, is a "millionaire" mainly because of his London home appreciating in value since he bought it, and his pensions value - by that metric, I’m a millionaire- you couldn’t tell, though... :D ).

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Yeah, nasty media. Jezza would have walked it if it wasn’t for them.

---------- Post added at 19:36 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------

He also voted against the lowest paid paying less tax.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25...ns?policy=6690

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

You appear to have accidentally left out another part of that Bill - the bit that raised the income thresholds for being charged income tax at the higher rate.

And of course, the Higher Threshold for Low Income workers was just one small part of a huge & complex Bill - but I’m sure you knew that he wasn’t just voting on that one small part of the Bill.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...tory_Notes.pdf

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

If you are going to make the claim that billionaire owners of media are altruistic and don’t seek to influence voters, or that people aren’t influenced by the media I’d love to hear it.

There’s a $1.2trn advertising industry to challenge the second point.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1586631745

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I’m sure he weighed up all the options and decided those on lower incomes weren’t worth it.

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:04 ----------

I didn’t make any such claim, got anything else

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

No, they don't, and people that think that are denying themselves the best thinkers for their cause

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I'd quit while you're behind mate.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Why is that? It's the easiest thing in the world to criticise the people who are actually trying to run things.

Corbyn didn't succeed because nobody with any common sense could believe in him.

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------

And what kind of reform would you support, jfman? Do tell!

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------

So why are you left leaning then? Just askin'....

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

So policies of envy denied the poor a tax reduction. Yes, sounds like Labour.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Well its quite clear the largly obsequious media won't...

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:46 ----------


Whether he is or not is totally irrelevant as is this forum not about members who have differing opinions last time l looked..

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I think the first join Starmer should do. Is have a go at the fact that hospitals, and care do not have the property equipment to deal with the present crisis.

Watching a tv prog this evening, and saw care homes struggling to cope. It was sad

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I’m to the left of you - that isn’t "left-leaning"; nice try shifting the Overton Window, though... ;)

I was an Officer and Candidate in the Conservative Party for over 20 years, holding positions such as Vice-Chair of National Young Conservative sub-Committees, Vice-Chair of Area (couple of Counties) Young Conservatives, Vice Chair of Constituency Conservatives, Chair of Constituency Young Conservatives, Local Council Candidate for the Conservative Party four times, on the Conservative Candidates List (short listed twice), researcher for a Cabinet Minister’s PPS, and helped out in tens of Election and by-election campaigns.

"Left leaning"...<snigger> :D

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I’ll let it ride, I don’t see much competition.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Because criticising a Government's policies does not amount to offering a policy alternative.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Glad you accept the media can, and do, influence public opinion. It’s not often we agree but I’m more than happy to on this one.

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:17 ----------

Given the railways are presently effectively nationalised I see no reason for the state to continue to subsidise the dividends of TOCs who don’t create perfect competition, as understood in an economic sense of course.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

It is comforting to see the baseless sniping at the new Labour leader. It means the Tories are worried ..

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Baseless sniping :rofl::rofl:

Feel free to disprove any information previously posted.

And you don't need to be a Tory to point out the failings of the cretin mr starmer.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Well yes, demonstrated by the above post !

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

It means they are laughing at labour supporters, but if they knuckle down they could be back in as little as 10 years with the right leader.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

So hard to predict anything at the moment and a good oppostion leader will be an asset to the government and country. The idea of a replacement foreign secretary whilst Dominic Raab runs the country during this crisis is sensible.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Tht's not how it works - if someone posts a statement (such as "who has no doubt avoided paying his fair share of taxes"), it's up to them to provide proof it's true.

Otherwise, people could just post that Boris is sleeping with Michael Gove and Ian Duncan Smith, and when challenged, say "prove it isn't true".

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Yes a good one would be an asset but she never got the job.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

With our two party system of democracy, it is essential we have a robust opposition to hold the governing party to account.

Corbyn could never do this. Early days but so far, Starmer is demonstrably a more capable and able politician.

There will be a reckoning after all this plays out and the nation as a whole will remember those who literally put their lives on the line for their fellow citizens and those who did nothing. Specially, those with so much wealth to help those in need:

Coronavirus profiteering: Anger grows as hedge fund makes STAGGERING 4,144 percent return

Rees-Mogg firm's plan to profit from coronavirus called 'grotesque'

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

In fairness to Julian the right wing gutter press have got away with it for years.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I thought baseless sniping was not on, despite repatedly doing it before the election.

You seem to have come back from your post election sulkathon in a somewhat hypocritical mode.....;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

What's going to be interesting is what politics looks like after this crisis. The economy is going to be very badly hit, on a scale that we've never seen before in our lifetimes. How people feel generally will be interesting as well, this might do a number on a lot of people and change them.

One thing's for sure if NHS wasn't already the national religion it will be now. It'll be untouchable with big political cost for not giving the staff pay rises, not increasing the budget beyond what was already planned by the current government and those new hospitals will have to be built (one should be called Nightingale too in tribute to this crisis).

Personally I also think any NHS/Key worker who worked though this crisis and is on a visa should be granted indefinite leave to remain if they want it and citizenship if they want that too.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Aye, Jess Phillips would have shaken things up!!

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

PMQs would have been far more entertaining, that's for sure.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

So to actually quote the first one, the (single) hedge fund made its profit betting on a stock market collapse.

Lucky for them, the bet worked out, Still, I'm sure everyone would have been equally 'angered' if they had lost the bet :rolleyes:


... and wait, another firm plans to make a profit ? Wow !
Newsflash for you - all firms plan to make a profit, and plenty are.

Oh, and of course ;
Did you miss that bit ? or did it just not suit your rant.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Also worth pointing out that investment funds are obliged by law to act in their stakeholders interests, just as PLCs are obliged to act in their shareholders interests. They don’t have the luxury of deciding not to move with the market, just because the market has moved due to a crisis.

You’re entitled to think that this is a fundamental problem with our system of financial regulation, but you’re not entitled to criticise companies and funds for acting in accordance with the law. Not if you want to be taken seriously anyway.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I’m not one to defend Rees-Mogg ordinarily but when I commented on this the other day, potentially in the other thread, I noted that it wasn’t particularly insightful thought anyway.

If they’re insider trading (illegal) or exploiting the situation by short selling (not illegal) then you’re into something else. But the observation that a huge economic collapse could yield significant long term returns isn’t really notable. If you picked up almost any stock in 2008 and the company still exists you’d have been well up before the latest downturn.

The underlying business models will still be there in 2024/5 and beyond for many companies. People willing to play the long term game are presented by opportunity by short teem investors essentially exiting the market.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

From a political point of view, Boris Johnson and his advisers had already identified the NHS as a key area but their preference was for bricks and mortar over pay rises and leave to remain.
If I was Sir Keir or Boris, I would try and focus on the NHS and care staff at the next election.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

You reduce this to banal cliches: "all firms plan to make a profit". You think that when so many firms are facing collapse, so many people are losing their jobs that it is morally acceptable for the wealthy to actively exploit this for their personal gains.

"I was only following orders" is not a defense. This is about a moral position, especially relevant at Easter when the the Archbishop of Canterbury warns of dangers of inequality after coronavirus.

If some think that criticising profiteering during a national crisis is 'ranting' then you need to grow up ..

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

:tu:

Notice Rees Mogg has done his disappearing act again, too busy cashing in.... To reappear when he's had his private vaccine no doubt.

Sir Keir will wipe the floor with these leaches.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Whilst the nation focused on Boris Johnson's plight, how is Dominic Cummings getting on? He self-isolated at the end of last month so I assume he's not been as stricken with the virus as Boris Johnson was.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Nobody cares Andrew, not even Boris.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

True. This may be food for thought.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-scandal.html

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

If it's the DM it's more like something to use instead of loo roll.

They are really getting desperate.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

The changes that were introduced by the Conservative Government of the day, when the Justice Department was lead by Chris Grayling?

Wonder why they don’t want an apology from him, or from Dame Alison Saunders, who was the DPP when the investigation into Paul Gambaccini was undertaken?

Or perhaps Bernard Hogan-Howe, who was the Met Police Commissioner at the time - it was his officers who interviewed Mr Gambaccini.

A small point, but a very important one - the CPS (whoever is in charge) does not decide who gets investigated; the Police do that.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Sadly like the vast majority of British newspapers be them politically left or right they have become political propagandist's mouthpiece's.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Forget who ran the story. Are you saying it's not true and if so, where's the link for this?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Links please.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Hugh's point yesterday was that if you make an allegation, you need evidence to support it. Not the other way round. ;);)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

hth... :)

The revised guidance came in in 2011, and Paul Gambaccini was initially arrested and investigated by the Met under Op Yewtree from October 31st 2013.

Chris Grayling https://www.gov.uk/government/people/chris-grayling Dame Alison Saunders https://www.gov.uk/government/people/alison-saunders Bernard Hogan-Howe ttps://members.parliament.uk/member/4693/experience Met Police https://www.itv.com/news/update/2013...e-allegations/ CPS https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps-page/investigation

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Big post containing nothing relative to the point.

Where in the above waffle does it refute the claim that

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Erm, that's not what I posted - I posted You asked for links, and I supplied them.

The changes were also agreed by Chris Grayling, who was the Justice Secretary at the time - so if an apology is requred from Starmer, shouldn't it also be required from Grayling?

The recommendations were a lot more complex than https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24555303 The Met Police launched Operation Midland, not the CPS.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

This is all about Starmer's fitness for office, not Chris Grayling.

I'm not excusing Grayling, but he's a separate disaster area and a separate story.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Loving the baseless attempts to trash the new Labour leader. Of course, the current administration has a fine selection of upstanding ministers: Patel, Raab, to name a couple of beacons of virtue and integrity.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

They are not baseless, as I have already pointed out. However, whether they are important is a matter of personal opinion.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

So even though you quoted OB's post you weren't responding to it. Keep on wriggling.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Thanks for the kind offer...

OB posted a link I was responding to the part in the article where Mr Gambaccini asserted I pointed out that Starmer did not implement these changes on his own, and that others were involved in the investigations, so should these others also apologise?

I can (repeatedly) explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you...

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

But Hugh, this is about the new Leader of the Opposition.,

I haven't claimed that anyone should apologise, but everyone involved in that sorry business deserves censure. One of them is Sir Keith Starmer.

By the way, your link doesn't work.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

No idea what’s going on in this thread now, have Hugh and OB sorted themselves out yet?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I don’t know. Who’s Keith?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2020/04/3.jpg

From Guatemala

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

He means Kev ;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

All this energy trying to validate historical "mistakes" made by the new Leader of the Opposition when the current Government's mistakes are literally killing people.

Tribal politics at its best ..

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I await your objective critique of the Government's failures in handling this pandemic with baited breath.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

A bit like all that historic rubbish that some threw up to discredit Boris. All a bit pointless really, but what's good fpr the goose....

---------- Post added at 20:35 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

Stop it, mate. The time for a review is when this has ended, and we will learn from this.

Right now, the government is concentrating on minimising impacts and chasing supplies. It really doesn't need a bunch of smart alecs criticising from the comfort of their armchairs.

Most people are reassured by what the government is doing, so I think we can take from that the government cannot be that far off track.