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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
It showed up as available in my postcode, until I clicked "order", then it loaded M350 saying the product I ordered wasnt available !
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I don't think Virgin pushes the top tier services that hard, especially when a new technology is involved. The people who want it probably already know about it.
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I'm content with my 1000/50. It's around the 900/52 mark most of the time. The upstream is a vast improvement of what it was last year (200/12 meg) and noticeably better that when upstream rose to 20 meg. My large content emails go very quickly.
Incidentally the merger between O2 & VM potentially presents consumers with a problem. 5G is seen as a rival to broadband; now one of them will either vie for dominance or they will collaborate to manage the market. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
That was said about 4G and 3G before that, and it makes as little sense now as it ever has. Line-of-sight speed tests to an empty cell are one thing, real-world network performance when people actually starting loading down the network is quite another.
Generational network upgrades allow fixed and mobile networks to keep usable pace with one another, but are not direct competitors nor replacements except in a few edge cases. BT are perhaps best placed for a view of both markets at the moment, and they're hardly slowing on either fixed or mobile. If Virgin/O2 were to slacken off on either fixed or mobile, they would be pushed out of the market by their substantial rivals - three sizeable competitors are pushing 5G rollouts and the national FTTP rollout is gaining momentum. As it stands, Virgin's network is very well placed to compete in this market and it's not in their interest to give up their customer base to competitors who would happily take it from them. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I have taken delivery of my Hub 4 and have set up in modem-only mode. All seems to be running OK, but speed tests are maxing at just under 700Mb. All my Ethernet, cards, routers and switches are of gigabyte standard.
I will wait for 24 hours for things to settle down before investigating. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
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If you let me know which router you have got I'll look it up for you and let you know what the wan to lan throughput is. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
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In router mode I got 965/55. In modem mode, the best I've got is 912/53 connected to an ASUS AC68U. Ridiculous thing is that the sales guy on the phone said I could expect 1.2 Gbps! As if the Hub 4 had extra legs. ---------- Post added at 10:46 ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 ---------- Quote:
Smallnetbuilder says the AC68U has a WAN throughput of 750 Mbps. Clearly my router has bust that reaching 912 Mbps download on Ookla and under present conditions is usually over 800 Mbps. Btw, I like the 50 meg upload. |
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I have an ASUS RT-AC88U - capable of more than 1GB. |
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In answer to an earlier question:- No I didn't test the Hub 4 in router mode first; such was my confidence in the AC88U. I might try that later when the household has gone to sleep. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I am curious to see what you can get dude. Up and till now I have never known anyone to achieve more than what the charts say so let us know if you can get more. I really want to see what I can do as well but I have checked the VM site and the max tier I can get is M500.
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2020/05/2.jpg If anyone is interested this is the VM 1gbit page and there is a postcode checker for availability. Atm it looks like it is very limited and the lockdown has no doubt put a dampener on things. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Even with 1Gbps Ethernet throughput it won't generally be reported as such in speed tests. Factoring in TCP/IP overheads and without jumbo frames you're probably going to see something more like 930-940Mbps reported in tests (depending on what exactly they're measuring).
The DOCSIS profile is in excess of 1Gbps but you're not going to see that in modem mode when limited to a single gigabit port. I do wonder how some routers will behave e.g. in terms of latency and QoS when they're maxed out in terms of forwarding throughput. |
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In router mode, I go through all the menus to see what's what and copy/paste them into Visio for reference. Then I do the speed tests. Then move to modem mode and the speed tests. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
If anyone looks for a new router which can get closer to 1gbit be very careful as to where you chose to source your information. I have just done a quick google to see if there have been any reviews and tests done specifically for routers that can do 1gbit wan to lan and this website came up as one of the top search results.
https://www.highspeedinternet.com/re...ternet-routers At a cursory glance it looks professional and legit but the information is obviously a load of twaddle. I have checked on smallnetbuilder and the Asus AC5300 comes out at 937mbits which would be good enough for me. If I was looking at one seriously I would check to see if newer models have been released since and what the stats are. |
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What I may do, just for a while, is demote my AC88U to AP mode, with SH4 in router mode and using all its Ethernet ports to feed my network. The ASUS will still function as a media server for me. Meanwhile, I will research decent routers with a much higher WAN to LAN throughput. |
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But the Hub 4 won't deliver more than 1 Gig. |
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Yeah, the gigabit only ports on the HUB4 are a massive disappointment for me. May as well stick around the lesser tiers until the HUB5 comes along.
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Yeah, it's a pre-hobbled device.
Though if they could handle link aggregation and whack it in a firmware update then that might be a solution, plenty of higher spec routers can do it. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
You'd be hard pressed to find a DOCSIS 3.1 modem with >Gb ports at the moment. Some of them will do port bonding but I'm not aware of any with 2.5G or higher ports.
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I think I've seen a modem with a 2.5G port, but no hubs from what I remember. Hopefully they'll start to be more popular.
Even routers with 2.5G ports are few and far between. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I have switched to router mode on the Hub 4. I now get 950Mb on the Ookla Speedtest App.
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
that is really really annoying and they need to look into that asap. The conspiracy theorist in me says they have done that on purpose to try and force people into using router mode hoping they get used to it and they can ditch modem mode going forward. Well it ain't gonna happen. I would happily lose speed if it means I can use a proper router. Also, that is the second router which is now reporting differently than smallnetbuilder :confused:
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I don't think anyone can blame Virgin on this one. Their supplier doesn't have anything better, really. https://www.commscope.com/product-ty...1#ProductsList
They don't offer a hub with 2.5G ports. They have some 3.1 modems with a 2.5G port, but those aren't gateways (Hubs). The majority of Virgin's customers use the hub without an external router. |
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Modem mode is for the enthusiasts for sure, but most people don't use a separate router. Most people aren't technical enough.
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I think it's irrelevant how many use modem mode. People want to pay a budget price for their Broadband and providers such as VM cannot provide expensive Hubs just so that modem mode users can slap on a fancy router (they go up to 2.5 Gig as consumer models - more than £400).
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It would be nice if Virgin offered it as a paid extra or something, though, but it's so niche. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
The above said, Kush, 1 Gig can't be the ceiling for too long, can it?
And that'll be true across the world. |
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https://www.commscope.com/product-ty...modems/tg9452/ Quote:
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It's a weird time when your internet connection speed is surpassing your home LAN speed. |
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Even connected direct to my very capable PC, with the Hub 4 in router mode, and using the CAT6 patch cable provided, I could only get a max speed of 948Mb. I tried this at peak and off-peak times. It made no difference. My hardware was holding back the top speed the connection is configured at. Clearly, a PC that only has a gigabit network card isn't going to get over 1000Mb anyway. As soon as I distributed around my CAT5e network I got exactly the same result, bang on 948Mb max. Switching to modem mode and shoving it all through my newly purchased GT-AX11000, I still maxed at 948Mbps, even using the 2.5Gb port. https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhlpLoG7kfyGp7p5...sN4rw?e=NYoSWf Who out there is likely to already have devices, cards, switches, cables etc capable of getting 1.1Gbps? Who has Wifi devices capable of this? Zero domestic customers? Just imagine the calls CS are going to get because virtually nobody can get the declared average down speed. Virgin Media would have been better off selling their package as 900Mb just like Vodaphone/City Fibre are doing, but with their symmetrical FTTP service. As you suggested Kush, Virgin Media will say that their 1.1Gb is a reality, even if you can't measure it, because it is being shared, when in router mode, through the hub's four ports, and through wifi, to a number of devices. This won't stop calls and complaints though. They will pay for their willy waving. https://www.virginmedia.com/shop/broadband/gig1speeds |
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This Sam Knows client data is also what is used by Virgin Media as part of any Speed complaint under the OFCOM rules for Hub 3 and well as the Hub 4. Just that currently the Hub 3 SamKnows client doesn't work with the Real Speed site. |
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They never claim that you get that to a single device, they claim you get that to the hub. After that, you need multiple devices to pull it all. It's no different to Virgin claiming you get 500Mbit, but you complaining that you can't hit that on wireless. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I think the point he is trying to make is that the hub physically can't support that speed. It doesn't matter whether it is 1.1gbits or 10gbits. If the wan to lan throughput of the hub is less than that and/or it only has gigabit ports then regardless of what VM sends to the shub, the hub is the bottleneck and no number of devices are cumulatively going to be able to achieve the advertised speed.
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I don't agree. Virgin have never said you will get 1.2gbits to one device. They say its a 1.2gb connection, which it is.
1.2gbits in my opinion is designed for mutipule users not one computer running speedtests |
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Am i missing something or is the wan port 1gbit?
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The coax WAN port is not constrained to 1Gbps. I'm happy with that. The internal LAN bus handling limit will obviously be higher than 1 Gbps to cover what peops would be doing on the LAN. The bridge LAN port is by definition 1 Gbps. The WiFi is AC not AX so nothing to win there. If the Hub 4 is configured by VM for 2 x CPE, then each CPE would be able to use 1 Gbps through a LAN port. All clear to me, thanks. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
yeah I get it, I was visualising the back of my router when I was thinking about the scenario which is why I said wan port, obviously the shub hasn't got one.
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Pretty much. I'm as annoyed as anyone, I just don't think Virgin is going to suffer from saying it's greater than 1gbit. Hell, most of us here lamenting the lack of a 2.5G+ port don't even have the networking equipment to handle it anyway.
I've got a 10Gbit port on my motherboard, but no way to use it even internally on my own LAN. The cost of entry is just too high :( |
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I understand how the >1.2Gb WAN to LAN throughput of Hub 4 can be utilised, in full, by two devices calling for > 550Mb , for example. Yet, I run just one of the Hub 4 1Gb ethernet ports through a GT-AX11000, but still only max at 948Mb. I guess the difference is due to overheads / built-in latency? I know it seems picky, but it's nice to have explanations. |
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If you are in router mode, then two LAN ports can each download to a maximum of 1 Gig. So, if you have, say, two PC connected to the Hub 4, each downloading at 550 Meg, then the speed through the Hub 4 coax (the WAN port) will be > 1 Gbps. If you are in router mode and the AX1100 is connected to one of the Hub 4's LAN ports, it is still constrained to 1 Gig. |
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What seems to be perplexing you is why can't you go all the way to 1 Gbps. With a bit of thought, you could lash up two computers on the same LAN and perform a huge file transfer and then time it (there must be some software to do this somewhere). Addressing the latency question, it's quite complicated. The LAN ports are buffered - which is a mitigation against latency. So latency could then depend on what else is happening in target equipment - like sending ACKs back to the data source. That said, speeds tests don't require ACKs. But through the AX1100 LAN port, other stuff in the background might be doing things like looking for emails or whatever. That will steal bandwidth. Do you have an AX capabvle mobile and if so, what speed test speed do you get when every other app is dormant? |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Am looking to upgrade to a 1Gbps service in the very near future we have two choices
Virgin 1000/50 - Not available just yet BT FTTP 900/100 - Available now We have the £99 bundle at the moment but have no interest of taking that again Just don’t know if BT are any good never been with them |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
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My phone is a Samsung Galaxy S10 Plus. I've been getting something like 850Mb on the 5G-2 channel, but without putting other apps to sleep. I just now got 929Mb after a reboot. Experimentation required. I might try what you suggest regarding hitching up two PCs to a single Erthernet port, (The 2.5Gb one.), just as a challenge. However, when one gets 948Mb consistently, I don't suppose missing the extra 52Mb matters much. A free boost to 100Mb upstream would be handy though. :rolleyes: I know, that is probably a long way off, given VM's network architecture. |
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The 100 upload is attractive. |
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BT did until recently have an issue with their super hub 2 not being able to deliver more than 50Mb. They appear to have resolved it though.
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In an overly simplified way and ignoring multiple layers, lets say a packet can hold 95 bits of data with a 5 bit header. All 100 bits still need to be transferred over the Ethernet link but only 95 bits of actual data (payload) are being transmitted per packet. Translating that into speed, instead of 100 bits per second say, you now only have 95 bits per second. It is still literally 100 bits being sent mind, that's not in question, but like you say some is overhead because of how networks work. If you have two computers on a LAN, set up file sharing and share a file between them, you'll see a similar limitation which tends to be around 930-950Mb/s throughput depending on things like packet size, protocol used, etc. This is also true with DSL - if you're close enough to the cabinet for VDSL you will sync at 80Mb/s on the highest Openreach package, but do a speed test and this shows more like 76ish Mb/s for exactly the same reason. This is also why it's now advertised as such because that's the number that shows up in speed tests. The reason this is different with Virgin is because what they sell as 200Mb is not 200Mb - go check your modem stats. Virgin have changed these profiles from time to time but at the time of making this post my profile speed is 230,000,061 bps. So pretty much 230Mb/s. Hope that explains it well enough! |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
https://www.speedtest.net/insights/b...bps-speedtest/
says "a 1 Gbps payload usually loses 6-9% to overhead", so roughbeast is actually doing well to only lose 5.2%. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I suspect different speed tests measure different things, perhaps some measure IP payload, others measure the whole packet including headers. I've not really looked into it but it would explain why some read higher than would seem possible.
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Upload is faster in the opening moments as the buffers take data at bus speeds.
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You can theoretically do line bonding or teaming, which is taking two Ethernet ports and running them in parallel. A single connection (Say a file download) still won't go above 1Gpbs, but multiplexed connections would be able to. The hub doesn't support it so it's a moot point and it wouldn't be worth doing just to get that extra bit in those occasions where you can. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
It depends on the type of link aggregation - many types will limit a single stream to a single interface (and therefore 1Gb), but others can bond multiple ports together under the same logical link.
It does require support at both ends of the link but some implementations can work more like a single, wider link. It's sort of the same principle as how multiple DOCSIS channels are bonded to give a final, faster connection visible to higher layers. I've not seen this explicitly stated but I wonder if this is what the DOCSIS 3.1 modems supporting link bonding are doing: https://motorolamentor.zendesk.com/h...an-one-device- I've no idea if the Hub 4 supports that or if it could be added with firmware updates. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I thought I read that the Hub 4 only has 1GB ports anyway.
So it would seem pointless trying to bond channels for higher speeds anyway ? |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
The point would be bonding ports of the modem to increase throughput beyond what a single link can support. Some DOCSIS 3.1 modems do support this like the one mentioned in the link I provided in last post, but I'm not aware of any routers supporting it.
Of course, for it to be useful for a single device it would mean having >1Gb LAN ports available on whatever router was used. |
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Interesting, I've just searched and read a bit about them. E.g. https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1039053/
Even if the 'single-pipe' bonding isn't an option for now, the more standard type could still be useful for a single device - many applications and especially game clients will open multiple connections anyway so could do in excess of 1Gbps in aggregate. And hopefully >1Gbps Ethernet starts becoming more common as gigabit broadband rolls out! It's not like the need is limited to NAS users any more. |
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
I linked a page earlier detailing a modem that does exactly that - both ports are treated kind of like one interface.
Some more details here: https://motorolamentor.zendesk.com/h...e-other-ports- It's no guarantee that the Hub would support that though (through a firmware update I mean, it obviously doesn't support it currently). |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
It's totally possible to do, just requires the hardware and OS to support it. The 2 hardware ports become 1 connection so there isnt an issue with NAT or anything.
Intel NICs have supported it forever as it's a fairly standard server feature to have 2 NICs and Intel just use the same drivers for all of their network stuff, even when it's in a cheapo consumer PC. |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Confirm for me please. Since I converted my Hub 4 to modem-only mode I have been unable to access its GUI on 192.168.100.1. Does Hub 4 have a different IP than other hubs? To complicate the question, my new GT-AX11000 allocates LAN IPs as 192.168.50. ** . For example, the router has an IP of 192.168.50.1
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This update has screwed the GUI if you hit the stats link on the 100.1 front screen in modem mode (I haven't tried router mode). To get the stats, you currently need to log in to the modem (0.1 or 100.1 works) and go to the ADVANCED/INFO/NETWORK STATUS menu. |
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I do get the splash screen that offers login or stats. Both in Chrome and Edge & Safari on the iPhone. It's just that when I hit the stats link, it just goes sort of hourglass. If I log in with the password, I can get the stats as I described. So I don't know what's happening in your case. |
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Hey Seph, Openreach have just signed a contract with Nokia for ONT's capable of 10Gb symmetrical.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.ph...it-for-uk.html |
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I presume you've done the usual of rebooting the Hub 4? |
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Other than that, it's good news for the future. I like the thought of VM being put under pressure. As regards pole-strung fibre (well present in the USA): https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.ph...-fast-kit.html |
Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
That's interesting about the stats Seph, what sort of thing does it show for 3.1 now?
@roughbeast does 192.168.0.1 work? 192.168.100.1 doesn't work even on the Hub 3 for me. If you're in modem mode and the router is in the same subnet it could be an issue. |
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Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
Yep, pole strung in my street. BT doing their 1gig "full fibre" from it.
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