Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

It showed up as available in my postcode, until I clicked "order", then it loaded M350 saying the product I ordered wasnt available !

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I don't think Virgin pushes the top tier services that hard, especially when a new technology is involved. The people who want it probably already know about it.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Why would that be? I'm hoping that your answer isn't that they don't push new technologies because they are uncertain that the network would be able to cope with many customers accessing new technology.

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:13 ----------

Try a direct call to CS.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

we should defo be able to get 500mbits. I have been able to get it for yonks and choose not to because the upstream is the same as 350.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I'm content with my 1000/50. It's around the 900/52 mark most of the time. The upstream is a vast improvement of what it was last year (200/12 meg) and noticeably better that when upstream rose to 20 meg. My large content emails go very quickly.

Incidentally the merger between O2 & VM potentially presents consumers with a problem. 5G is seen as a rival to broadband; now one of them will either vie for dominance or they will collaborate to manage the market.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

That was said about 4G and 3G before that, and it makes as little sense now as it ever has. Line-of-sight speed tests to an empty cell are one thing, real-world network performance when people actually starting loading down the network is quite another.

Generational network upgrades allow fixed and mobile networks to keep usable pace with one another, but are not direct competitors nor replacements except in a few edge cases.

BT are perhaps best placed for a view of both markets at the moment, and they're hardly slowing on either fixed or mobile.

If Virgin/O2 were to slacken off on either fixed or mobile, they would be pushed out of the market by their substantial rivals - three sizeable competitors are pushing 5G rollouts and the national FTTP rollout is gaining momentum. As it stands, Virgin's network is very well placed to compete in this market and it's not in their interest to give up their customer base to competitors who would happily take it from them.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I have taken delivery of my Hub 4 and have set up in modem-only mode. All seems to be running OK, but speed tests are maxing at just under 700Mb. All my Ethernet, cards, routers and switches are of gigabyte standard.

I will wait for 24 hours for things to settle down before investigating.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

just because your router has got gigabit ports on it doesn't mean that it is going to give you gigabits speeds; there are other factors at play. For example, my Asus router has gigabit ports on it but I know it can only do something around 780mbits max. Depending what real world speed I achieved if I upgraded to 1000mb it would make me consider whether to invest in a replacement router or not. If I got 700mbits I wouldn't be too worried about feeling like I am losing out on 300mbits because you have got to ask yourself how often you are actually going to hit 1000mbits and depending what you are downloading file size wise it might last all of a few seconds. If I got 1000mbits (isn't available yet) I would be getting it for the increased upload speed and not the download speed.

If you let me know which router you have got I'll look it up for you and let you know what the wan to lan throughput is.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

very interesting because I was just going to question that. I have got the same router as you and I looked it up on smallnetbuilder before I bought it just to see what the limitations were. I want 1000mbits now just to satisfy my curiosity and see what it can actually do.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I wasn't particularly complaining about getting less than expected speeds at this stage, but it would be good to see that the connection is behaving properly.

I have an ASUS RT-AC88U - capable of more than 1GB.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Surely the WAN port being RJ45 for Gigabits BaseT makes the AC88U capable of 1000Mbps.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

OK sorry. So, I should be getting close to 1000Mbps if the Hub 4 is capable of dishing it out.

In answer to an earlier question:- No I didn't test the Hub 4 in router mode first; such was my confidence in the AC88U. I might try that later when the household has gone to sleep.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I am curious to see what you can get dude. Up and till now I have never known anyone to achieve more than what the charts say so let us know if you can get more. I really want to see what I can do as well but I have checked the VM site and the max tier I can get is M500.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2020/05/2.jpg



If anyone is interested this is the VM 1gbit page and there is a postcode checker for availability. Atm it looks like it is very limited and the lockdown has no doubt put a dampener on things.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Even with 1Gbps Ethernet throughput it won't generally be reported as such in speed tests. Factoring in TCP/IP overheads and without jumbo frames you're probably going to see something more like 930-940Mbps reported in tests (depending on what exactly they're measuring).

The DOCSIS profile is in excess of 1Gbps but you're not going to see that in modem mode when limited to a single gigabit port.

I do wonder how some routers will behave e.g. in terms of latency and QoS when they're maxed out in terms of forwarding throughput.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

If anyone looks for a new router which can get closer to 1gbit be very careful as to where you chose to source your information. I have just done a quick google to see if there have been any reviews and tests done specifically for routers that can do 1gbit wan to lan and this website came up as one of the top search results.

https://www.highspeedinternet.com/re...ternet-routers

At a cursory glance it looks professional and legit but the information is obviously a load of twaddle. I have checked on smallnetbuilder and the Asus AC5300 comes out at 937mbits which would be good enough for me. If I was looking at one seriously I would check to see if newer models have been released since and what the stats are.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Yes, but you are Seph and I am roughy. One day, I will go about things in a sensible and methodical way.

What I may do, just for a while, is demote my AC88U to AP mode, with SH4 in router mode and using all its Ethernet ports to feed my network. The ASUS will still function as a media server for me.

Meanwhile, I will research decent routers with a much higher WAN to LAN throughput.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

That's the rub!

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Looking at both of those models and then again at the one I have already got, it is no surprise that we sometimes end up getting routers with specs that don't match what we think we need. All three models, on ordinary retail sites, show that they have 1Gb WAN capability. To the average punter there would seem to be no reason for looking at WAN to LAN throughput. To us regular punters there is no point having a 1Gb WAN port if the throughput to Ethernet LAN is less than 1Gb. Throughput is very rarely specified. Neither can I see whether the two models you highlighted feature a VPN server facility. I will have to dig deeper.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

https://www.asus.com/uk/Networking/R...re-GT-AX11000/

https://www.tomsguide.com/uk/us/asus...view-6373.html

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Yeah, the gigabit only ports on the HUB4 are a massive disappointment for me. May as well stick around the lesser tiers until the HUB5 comes along.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Yeah, it's a pre-hobbled device.

Though if they could handle link aggregation and whack it in a firmware update then that might be a solution, plenty of higher spec routers can do it.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

You'd be hard pressed to find a DOCSIS 3.1 modem with >Gb ports at the moment. Some of them will do port bonding but I'm not aware of any with 2.5G or higher ports.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I think I've seen a modem with a 2.5G port, but no hubs from what I remember. Hopefully they'll start to be more popular.

Even routers with 2.5G ports are few and far between.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I have switched to router mode on the Hub 4. I now get 950Mb on the Ookla Speedtest App.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

that is really really annoying and they need to look into that asap. The conspiracy theorist in me says they have done that on purpose to try and force people into using router mode hoping they get used to it and they can ditch modem mode going forward. Well it ain't gonna happen. I would happily lose speed if it means I can use a proper router. Also, that is the second router which is now reporting differently than smallnetbuilder :confused:

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I don't think anyone can blame Virgin on this one. Their supplier doesn't have anything better, really. https://www.commscope.com/product-ty...1#ProductsList

They don't offer a hub with 2.5G ports. They have some 3.1 modems with a 2.5G port, but those aren't gateways (Hubs). The majority of Virgin's customers use the hub without an external router.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I would love to see some updated stats on that. Enough of us must to be using modem mode to make it viable for them.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Modem mode is for the enthusiasts for sure, but most people don't use a separate router. Most people aren't technical enough.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Tens of thousands use modem mode.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Assuming that's 100k customers, out of what - 6 million or something? That represents something like 1.5% of the userbase. 2% tops.

Yup, exactly this. And I'm not sure I'd want to pay that much for my own modem, even if Virgin allowed it, given that I can't take it to another provider.

It would be nice if Virgin offered it as a paid extra or something, though, but it's so niche.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Arris / Commscope do now have a device with one 2.5G port on it. By the looks of it, they've swapped two of the Gigabit ports out to get a 2.5G port in.

https://www.commscope.com/product-ty...modems/tg9452/

That device was only approved by the FCC last month, so it will be a while before there is any scope for it to be turned into a LG or Virgin Media device, especially as it's not a EuroDOCSIS device (yet).

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I agree, a few places already offer 10Gig connections even. I think we'll be stuck around 1gig for a while simply because most people use the hub and the hub can share >1gig across all its interfaces. The ones missing out are the ones wanting to use their own router, but even then there's not a huge amount with 2.5G ports. Finding switches with 2.5G+ ports is a chore as well. They exist, but they're not cheap at all.

It's a weird time when your internet connection speed is surpassing your home LAN speed.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Virgin Media clearly state that we should be getting an average of 1.1Gb. They are unwise to do so.

Even connected direct to my very capable PC, with the Hub 4 in router mode, and using the CAT6 patch cable provided, I could only get a max speed of 948Mb. I tried this at peak and off-peak times. It made no difference. My hardware was holding back the top speed the connection is configured at.

Clearly, a PC that only has a gigabit network card isn't going to get over 1000Mb anyway. As soon as I distributed around my CAT5e network I got exactly the same result, bang on 948Mb max. Switching to modem mode and shoving it all through my newly purchased GT-AX11000, I still maxed at 948Mbps, even using the 2.5Gb port. https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhlpLoG7kfyGp7p5...sN4rw?e=NYoSWf

Who out there is likely to already have devices, cards, switches, cables etc capable of getting 1.1Gbps? Who has Wifi devices capable of this? Zero domestic customers? Just imagine the calls CS are going to get because virtually nobody can get the declared average down speed. Virgin Media would have been better off selling their package as 900Mb just like Vodaphone/City Fibre are doing, but with their symmetrical FTTP service. As you suggested Kush, Virgin Media will say that their 1.1Gb is a reality, even if you can't measure it, because it is being shared, when in router mode, through the hub's four ports, and through wifi, to a number of devices. This won't stop calls and complaints though. They will pay for their willy waving.

https://www.virginmedia.com/shop/broadband/gig1speeds

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

You can measure it in router mode. All Hub 4s have a customer available SamKnows option so you can use www.samknows.com/realspeed from any device connected to the Hub 4 to see the speed between the Hub and Virgin Media.

This Sam Knows client data is also what is used by Virgin Media as part of any Speed complaint under the OFCOM rules for Hub 3 and well as the Hub 4. Just that currently the Hub 3 SamKnows client doesn't work with the Real Speed site.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Thanks.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

They never claim that you get that to a single device, they claim you get that to the hub. After that, you need multiple devices to pull it all.

It's no different to Virgin claiming you get 500Mbit, but you complaining that you can't hit that on wireless.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I think the point he is trying to make is that the hub physically can't support that speed. It doesn't matter whether it is 1.1gbits or 10gbits. If the wan to lan throughput of the hub is less than that and/or it only has gigabit ports then regardless of what VM sends to the shub, the hub is the bottleneck and no number of devices are cumulatively going to be able to achieve the advertised speed.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I don't agree. Virgin have never said you will get 1.2gbits to one device. They say its a 1.2gb connection, which it is.

1.2gbits in my opinion is designed for mutipule users not one computer running speedtests

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

The Hub's WAN-to-LAN capability is greater than gigabit, it's the LAN (port) that's limited to 1gbit. Two devices plugged into the hub (or via wireless or whatever) are capable of more than maxing out the connection. SO Virgin aren't wrong.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Am i missing something or is the wan port 1gbit?

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

No no no, I'm saying the WAN connection internal to the HUB is capable of it, that connection that feeds into the HUB's LAN and Wireless switch.

When I spoke about the WAN capacity, I meant internal to the hub. I wouldn't call any of the external ports on the hub WAN ports. Even in modem mode from what I understand it's still a bridged LAN port.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

yeah I get it, I was visualising the back of my router when I was thinking about the scenario which is why I said wan port, obviously the shub hasn't got one.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Pretty much. I'm as annoyed as anyone, I just don't think Virgin is going to suffer from saying it's greater than 1gbit. Hell, most of us here lamenting the lack of a 2.5G+ port don't even have the networking equipment to handle it anyway.

I've got a 10Gbit port on my motherboard, but no way to use it even internally on my own LAN. The cost of entry is just too high :(

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

It took me a while too, but I still don't think I am quite there yet.

I understand how the >1.2Gb WAN to LAN throughput of Hub 4 can be utilised, in full, by two devices calling for > 550Mb , for example. Yet, I run just one of the Hub 4 1Gb ethernet ports through a GT-AX11000, but still only max at 948Mb. I guess the difference is due to overheads / built-in latency?

I know it seems picky, but it's nice to have explanations.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I get that 1Gb is going to be my ceiling, but am I right in saying that I don't reach the full 1Gb because of overheads/my Ethernet network latency?

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Am looking to upgrade to a 1Gbps service in the very near future we have two choices

Virgin 1000/50 - Not available just yet
BT FTTP 900/100 - Available now

We have the £99 bundle at the moment but have no interest of taking that again Just don’t know if BT are any good never been with them

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I'm not sure that the overclocking that VM does in its modem config, to allow for overheads, applies here, if the absolute ceiling of a 1 Gig port is 1 Gig.

My phone is a Samsung Galaxy S10 Plus. I've been getting something like 850Mb on the 5G-2 channel, but without putting other apps to sleep. I just now got 929Mb after a reboot. Experimentation required.

I might try what you suggest regarding hitching up two PCs to a single Erthernet port, (The 2.5Gb one.), just as a challenge. However, when one gets 948Mb consistently, I don't suppose missing the extra 52Mb matters much. A free boost to 100Mb upstream would be handy though. :rolleyes: I know, that is probably a long way off, given VM's network architecture.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

It won't be long before Vodafone's 900Mb/900Mb is available in my street, so when my VM contract runs out next May, I am likely to make the switch. I won't really miss the the TV.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

BT did until recently have an issue with their super hub 2 not being able to deliver more than 50Mb. They appear to have resolved it though.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

You are correct about it being overheads. When we talk about gigabit Ethernet it literally means 1,000,000,000 bits per second transferred on the wire, but not all of this is usable for actual data because of the way it is arranged into frames/packets. Each frame/packet needs a header to say where it's going e.g. a MAC header on layer two, then an IP header on layer 3, then more for TCP/UDP above that - you get the point though. More information available online if you search for those terms.

In an overly simplified way and ignoring multiple layers, lets say a packet can hold 95 bits of data with a 5 bit header. All 100 bits still need to be transferred over the Ethernet link but only 95 bits of actual data (payload) are being transmitted per packet. Translating that into speed, instead of 100 bits per second say, you now only have 95 bits per second. It is still literally 100 bits being sent mind, that's not in question, but like you say some is overhead because of how networks work.

If you have two computers on a LAN, set up file sharing and share a file between them, you'll see a similar limitation which tends to be around 930-950Mb/s throughput depending on things like packet size, protocol used, etc.

This is also true with DSL - if you're close enough to the cabinet for VDSL you will sync at 80Mb/s on the highest Openreach package, but do a speed test and this shows more like 76ish Mb/s for exactly the same reason. This is also why it's now advertised as such because that's the number that shows up in speed tests.

The reason this is different with Virgin is because what they sell as 200Mb is not 200Mb - go check your modem stats. Virgin have changed these profiles from time to time but at the time of making this post my profile speed is 230,000,061 bps. So pretty much 230Mb/s.

Hope that explains it well enough!

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

https://www.speedtest.net/insights/b...bps-speedtest/
says "a 1 Gbps payload usually loses 6-9% to overhead", so roughbeast is actually doing well to only lose 5.2%.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I suspect different speed tests measure different things, perhaps some measure IP payload, others measure the whole packet including headers. I've not really looked into it but it would explain why some read higher than would seem possible.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

That's one of the clearest explanations I have seen. So, until cards,switches, ports etc all become significantly >1000Mbps no one is going to be achieving anything in tests over 930-950Mb. However, a connection over one gig still benefits a household or business with multiple devices clamouring for more and more bandwidth.Most of us just can't measure up to that higher speed yet - hence the Samknows realspeed facility.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Exactly.

You can theoretically do line bonding or teaming, which is taking two Ethernet ports and running them in parallel. A single connection (Say a file download) still won't go above 1Gpbs, but multiplexed connections would be able to.

The hub doesn't support it so it's a moot point and it wouldn't be worth doing just to get that extra bit in those occasions where you can.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

It depends on the type of link aggregation - many types will limit a single stream to a single interface (and therefore 1Gb), but others can bond multiple ports together under the same logical link.

It does require support at both ends of the link but some implementations can work more like a single, wider link. It's sort of the same principle as how multiple DOCSIS channels are bonded to give a final, faster connection visible to higher layers.

I've not seen this explicitly stated but I wonder if this is what the DOCSIS 3.1 modems supporting link bonding are doing: https://motorolamentor.zendesk.com/h...an-one-device-

I've no idea if the Hub 4 supports that or if it could be added with firmware updates.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I thought I read that the Hub 4 only has 1GB ports anyway.
So it would seem pointless trying to bond channels for higher speeds anyway ?

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

The point would be bonding ports of the modem to increase throughput beyond what a single link can support. Some DOCSIS 3.1 modems do support this like the one mentioned in the link I provided in last post, but I'm not aware of any routers supporting it.

Of course, for it to be useful for a single device it would mean having >1Gb LAN ports available on whatever router was used.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I am pretty sure the high end Asus routers support link aggregation protocol or equivalent, I have definitely seen it in my Asus' gui. The problem is that to benefit from it you would need to use the shub in router mode in order to use multiple ports, plus the nic on the client would have to be >1gbit.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Interesting, I've just searched and read a bit about them. E.g. https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1039053/

Even if the 'single-pipe' bonding isn't an option for now, the more standard type could still be useful for a single device - many applications and especially game clients will open multiple connections anyway so could do in excess of 1Gbps in aggregate.

And hopefully >1Gbps Ethernet starts becoming more common as gigabit broadband rolls out! It's not like the need is limited to NAS users any more.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Not only that but you would then probably need to start doing double NAT if the SHUB was in router mode which is just a pain. It needs bonding in modem mode... although I'm not sure if that is even possible considering we use that single port for the MAC address and IP address.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

I linked a page earlier detailing a modem that does exactly that - both ports are treated kind of like one interface.

Some more details here: https://motorolamentor.zendesk.com/h...e-other-ports-

It's no guarantee that the Hub would support that though (through a firmware update I mean, it obviously doesn't support it currently).

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

It's totally possible to do, just requires the hardware and OS to support it. The 2 hardware ports become 1 connection so there isnt an issue with NAT or anything.

Intel NICs have supported it forever as it's a fairly standard server feature to have 2 NICs and Intel just use the same drivers for all of their network stuff, even when it's in a cheapo consumer PC.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Confirm for me please. Since I converted my Hub 4 to modem-only mode I have been unable to access its GUI on 192.168.100.1. Does Hub 4 have a different IP than other hubs? To complicate the question, my new GT-AX11000 allocates LAN IPs as 192.168.50. ** . For example, the router has an IP of 192.168.50.1

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Pity Hub 4 doesn't support LACP-IEEE 802.3ad in either mode, because my router does support aggregation.

---------- Post added at 09:00 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------

That's the problem. I can't access anything via 100.1 , i.e. no GUI.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Could it be anything to do with the GT-AX11000 allocating 192.168.50.** IP addresses? Subnet is 255.255.255.0 as usual.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Hey Seph, Openreach have just signed a contract with Nokia for ONT's capable of 10Gb symmetrical.


https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.ph...it-for-uk.html

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

no and you can change that if you want to anyway. Every now and again when there is a problem with my connection (like I had the other day) the shub goes weird and even though it is up and running I can't get to the gui. I have to reboot the shub and then I can get to .100.1 and look at the stats.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Yes.

---------- Post added at 10:07 ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 ----------

OK. I'll give i time. Reboot hasn't worked yet
.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

That's interesting about the stats Seph, what sort of thing does it show for 3.1 now?

@roughbeast does 192.168.0.1 work? 192.168.100.1 doesn't work even on the Hub 3 for me. If you're in modem mode and the router is in the same subnet it could be an issue.

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

That article was about G.Fast to the pole. AFAIK Openreach didn't go any further than one trial. Pole strung fibre is already here and being pushed out (as I'm sure you know).

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1590058854

Re: M1000 is available. How to order?
 

Yep, pole strung in my street. BT doing their 1gig "full fibre" from it.