Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Going from a council house to building such an empire is an example of the much vaunted social mobility. Although the grammar school system almost certainly played a part.


Ultimately those businesses have to be owned by somebody, whether an individual or another business. That ownership can be based anywhere in the world.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

The problem you highlight is a good one. The current light touch approach favoured by free market Governments is to observe and not challenge until/unless the change starts to impinge on legal constructs. All the while if the consumer, how you ever define this entity, is content with lower prices, more product choice, more product features, etc. then the Laissez-faire remains.

The issue that is ignored is that this policy has future consequences. These invariably turn out to be negative. Online shopping: convenient and cheaper than visiting the High Street. We all do it and are now reaping the "rewards". Town centres turning into bizarre versions of their former community-centric selves. Do we all miss the corner shop, the sub post office, the local baker, etc. Of course but did we do anything to change their destiny, absolutely not.

The free market must have constraints: these need to be for societal as much as economic reasons. Without boundaries, change will happen .. unchecked. Automation will be a runaway train that future Governments will be playing catch up to. We need impact assessments before these changes get momentum.

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

You fail to grasp the construct here: social mobility does not equate to immoral wealth. There need to be mechanisms in place to encourage market-driven innovations that benefit society as a whole and penalise the acquisition of disproportionate personal or corporate wealth.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Competition, more product choice, and more product features, do not work with the High Street. Just try getting the huge choice of products that are available, anywhere on the high street. Even within a big city like London, you would have to search for the more specialist shops. EG HDMI cables. Just look at the range available, hundreds of different kinds available from Amazon, and compare that with what's available on the high street. It's not just physically possible for a high street shop to have such a wide range and at low prices.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

More automation leads to fewer workers
Fewer workers leads to more unemployment
More unemployment leads to less wealth
Less wealth leads to decreased spending
Decreased spending leads to fewer goods bought
Fewer goods bought leads to lower production
Lower production leads to less profit
less profit leads to more automation

Very simplistic I know, but if people cannot afford the items/services you provide . . then the market is open for cheap lower quality (probably from abroad)

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

More automation leads to cheaper goods, which leads to more demand.


Where would we be if Caxton hadn't invented the printing press, or the spinning jenny invented to make clothes cheaper, Henry Ford making cars cheaper, etc.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Farage spouting cack about being able to use Article 24 again....

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Could you give us the benefit of your wisdom and explain what is wrong with this strategy.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

2016 Leave voter Westminster voting intention:

CON: 58%
BREX: 24%
LAB: 10%

via
@YouGov
, 17 - 28 Oct

2016 Remain voter Westminster voting intention:

LDEM: 34%
LAB: 33%
CON: 16%
GRN: 9%

via
@YouGov
, 17 - 28 Oct

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

It's already been done to death but to recap,

Gatt 24 applies if you have an agreement, or an agreement near to completion. It doesn't apply if you decide not to have an agreement, or iif you cannot reach an agreement.

---------- Post added at 12:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 ----------

Is that dated right? Or, should it be 2019. Or is it there for further/future comparison.


Genuine Q ! :)

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Doesn't GATT 24 also rule out the backstop?
NI and GB classed as two separate customs territories.


Then there is:-

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Responding to Mr Farage's speech, a Conservative source says: "A vote for Farage risks letting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street via the back door - and the country spending 2020 having two referendums on Brexit and Scottish independence.

"It will not get Brexit done - and it will create another gridlocked Parliament that doesn’t work”.

The Conservatives have repeatedly ruled out any kind of pact with the Brexit Party, with government minister Robert Jenrick saying earlier: "We are not interested in doing any pacts with the Brexit Party or indeed with anybody else."

taken from the bbc

Are they worried ? Or, dismissive...

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Can't remember the last time I saw a sign in a shop window saying " Due to advances in our factories, we can make our products twice as fast at 2/3 the price, therefore everything is reduced by 25%"

:D

. . closing down sales have signs offering goods at reduced prices though ;)

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Mr Farage also says.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ries-live-news

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Are you really saying that books didn't become cheaper and more readily available because of the printing press? Are you really saying that cars didn't become cheaper when Henry Ford introduced the production line?

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

1) Does he have the money ?
2) Does he have the people ?

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

stop being silly, you'll be telling me next that Primark can sell clothes cheaper than BHS because it's top quality gear made on expensive machinery in Taiwan :p:

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

They certainly don't have the party finances that the Conservatives and Labour have but they do have some financiers and former Conservative donors supporting them.

---------- Post added at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

Personally l don't think they will target every seat but l do see them targeting between 100 to 150 seats.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

If that were to be the case then they’ll be targeting strong labour heartlands where historically the tories have no chance. So north east UK. Parts of Sunderland, Hartlepool, Middlesbrough etc.

That’s the leave vote split if that were to be the case. Hung parliament again !!

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Didn’t say that - I said the companies (and it was mainly institutions that held the vast majority of shares) would be able to write off those losses against tax.

But you knew that, and decided to mischaracterise my comments.

(FYI, I worked in the Telecomms industry at that time, for Cable Companies and BT Cellnet (as was)).

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

That is the vexed question though as to what will transpire at the forthcoming General Election as l have just read some quotes from Rob Ford, the politics professor and co-author of a seminal book on the Ukip vote.

Here are several of his quotes from today from his Twitter account.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

They still make losses from it. The tax adjustments mitigate against losses, they don't eliminate them.
Simple example: £100m profit with 20% tax = £20m to pay leaving £80m gain. Instead suffer £50m losses leads to £50m profit = £10m tax paid leaving £40m gain, rather than the £30m gain if the losses weren't allowed against tax.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

It is a conundrum isn't it Den?

Farage is clever enough to work it all out i'm sure ;) Like Bozza he's only in it for himself, and his personal wealth.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

You made the statement, i’m Just enquiring how you would administer it.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Here is the latest polling out today, from Panelbase.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Nothing to see here - Exactly what all those polls were saying prior to the 2016 EU Referendum.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Except the ones that didn't of course.

https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Anyone had any MP's at their doors yet?

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Not yet but the last one that knocked on our front door in the last election was answered at the door by my bigger brother nearly jumped out of his skin in shock at the size of my big brother.:D:D

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Yes. :)

It's tell us what the % is of those who voted in 2016, would now vote in the General Election, 2019.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

If you're not in a marginal constituency they won't bother ! Crazy electoral system we have.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

But . . but . . if they don't come and speak to us, we won't know what we're voting for

. . and then people will say we're thick ;)

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

What will people say if you vote for them after they have spoken to you:nutter:

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

I live in a Tory/SNP swing seat, so I might expect a visit except for the fact that I live way out in the sticks. The only time I've ever had canvassers at the door was during the independence referendum. Both sides showed up for that.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

What exactly is he offering, to tear up the last ten years of tory rule and blame others for his and his parties short comings, we've screwed it up for a decade so give us another go at it isn't reason to vote for him imo. Plus if his own brother doesn't trust him, why should we.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

There is an answer, stand yourself. If nobody is representing you and your views or you don't trust them. There might be others that have the same views.
Not voting or standing really does give you no right to complain about politicians not doing what you want, or the state of things.

I'd be for compulsory voting, but 'none of the above' certainly would have to be an option on the ballot paper.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Yeah, 'cos that worked really well for the BNP and similar didn't it.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

H'mm. You seem to be facing the same sort of dilemma as our Parliamentarians. You don't like the choices available, but you don't know what you do want!

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

The Tories are revolting ! ;)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-vote-lib-dem
He's always seemed to me like a sensible chap.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

The last 10 years has not been representative of 'Tory rule' because we have been in austerity during that time. An austerity caused by a banking crisis that could have been avoided had Gordon Brown and his cronies not spent all our money on socialist policies.

Now that we are coming out the other side of the tunnel, Boris is able to present us with an exciting agenda for the next five years, which will contain many of the things that the public have been crying out for without bankrupting the economy.

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

Another MP determined to frustrate the will of the people. These are the politicians we want out of the Conservative Party, so good riddance, I say.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

He's not an MP OB, do try reading.....

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Seems like a hardened pro-EU person to me, obviously Boris got the measure of him quite early.
Probably a nice enough chap, but one wonders why he took so long to jump. Can't see him getting very far, but fair play for his principles.

In other news, Government puts a ban on Fracking. That will please many, and pee off those with money who saw a nice profit from it. I'm in the anti-fracking camp myself.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

He was a sensible chap but when a party that he has supported all his life becomes a sect rather then a broad church then he and millions with him will go elsewhere.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Undecided at the moment between voting for my current Tory pro Brexit MP or abstaining. Will make my mind up nearer the time if I vote or not.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

How is it possible to support Leave and Remain at the same time?:confused:
The issue is that the Remain side insist on imposing their will, regardless of a democratic vote. If they more accepting of the result, it would be less of an issue.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Jeremy Corbyn seems to manage alright.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

A 'sect'? This is the only party (apart from Brexit) that is determined to deliver on the result of the referendum.

That word is more appropriate to describe Corbyn's Labour Party.

---------- Post added at 14:24 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

Thank you for correcting, but it wasn't clear in that article that he was an ex-MP, just that he was an ex-Tory MP.

Incidentally, your assumption that some of those who voted Conservative last time were oldies and have died off only to be replaced by younger socialist-minded people has received a bit of a knock.

According to newspaper reports, the age at which a voter was more likely to have voted Tory than Labour, is now 40, down from 47 at the 2017 election.

This is the finding of a MORI poll. As well as that, a YouGov poll has revealed that Labour has lost many young voters since the last election, most notably to the Green Party.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Labour will deliver a Brexit if the people approve of the deal. What’s unreasonable about that?

---------- Post added at 15:10 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

Rolling back the function of the state is classic Tory policy. Austerity is just a mechanism to justify it.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

What's unreasonable is:

1. The public has already voted but as it doesn't give the answer some wanted they want a pointless re-run of it.

2. Corbyn is promising a choice between a new deal which keeps us in the Customs Union or remain. Both are remain options. You can't be both in the customs union and be able to forge new trade deals, and that completely takes away the advantage of leaving the EU.

As for your final comment, austerity was necessary to avoid the country going bankrupt. There is nowt wrong with rolling back the state so that it doesn't take over the whole economy. It's our hard earned money that pays for the state sector, remember.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

It’s hardly a pointless re-run if it’s a detailed outcome vs the status quo. Not my thoughts, that was Jacob Rees-Mogg!

It’s our public services too that are suffering. The country was never in danger of “going bankrupt”, indeed other countries have in the past used public sector investment projects to drive growth in the economy.

The “our hard earned money” line is the oldest line in the neo-liberal capitalist handbook. It ignores that money moves round the economy driving demand and promoting growth. Doctors, nurses and teachers spend money in the economy.

Money sitting in offshore accounts doesn’t do any of this. It just sits waiting to be inherited, with no tax paid on it when that happens.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Labour was borrowing way back in 2002, when the economy was supposedly doing well. They also deferred borrowing by using PFI on an epic scale. If the same levels of spending had been retained we would be borrowing more and more. Unsustainable.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

And Thatcher borrowed throughout her tenure despite the windfalls of privatisation.

I agree it's not sustainable to structure the economy this way. However the choice of finding public services through taxation or scaling back the state is ideological.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

The voting intention by educational level is also interesting...

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...%202019-01.png

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Surprised so many "highly" educated people can't see through the Lib Dems.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Two opinion polls released in the last hour.

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 42% (+2)
LAB: 26% (+2)
LDEM: 16% (+1)
BREX: 9% (-1)
GRN: 2% (-1)

via
@OpiniumResearch
, 30 Oct - 01 Nov


Westminster voting intention:

CON: 36% (+10)
LAB: 28% (-1)
LDEM: 14% (+6)
BREX: 12% (-2)

via
@ORB_Int
, 30 - 31 Oct
Chgs. w/ Apr

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Give over, Labour will deliver Hobson’s choice.

A deal which is remaining in the EU or choice B, Remain in the EU.

whoo Ff’no Hoo.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

And another one:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 40% (+3)
LAB: 28% (+4)
LDEM: 14% (-5)
BREX: 11% (-)

via DeltaPoll UK, 31 Oct - 02 Nov

Very early days but these polls are people’s first impressions based not on the election campaign but on the recent conduct of the parties in Parliament. They suggest that Farage isn’t going to benefit from Boris not having delivered Brexit on Thursday. They also suggest the Limp Dumbs aren’t hoovering up the remainer vote. Perhaps vowing to summarily overturn a democratic vote is too much for all but the most hardened EUphiles.

So far, so Boris. Good.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

More likely the vote is reverting back to the two parties under FPTP. The Lib Dems announced their revoke policy back in early September.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9182371.html

Old Vince has finally worked it out.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Brexit supporters - is Nigel right or is BJ right?

(on BJ’s deal - NF says don’t back the deal, it’s not Brexit).

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

It gets us out of the EU and into transitional terms with an end date that cannot be extended without our agreement. It is Brexit. We can argue until the cows come home over whether there could have been better transitional terms than these but nobody should be in any doubt that they represent our exit from the EU. Nigel Farage seems to have let his EU election win, his friendship with Trump and his shock jock talk show go to his head.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

But not when the economy was supposedly doing well. Gordon Brown deliberately threw money around on things like tax credits. An example of unnecessary expenditure was free TV Licences for the over 75s. If may sound nice, but there was no legitimate basis for it. They don't suddenly suffer a drop in income when they hit 75.



It's not sustainable to have to borrow when the economy is doing well. Think of the everyday household budgeting situation. If you use bonuses and overtime to fund more borrowing in order to have a "better" lifestyle, it is inevitable that in time, those bonuses and overtime will disappear. Leaving you with debts and a lifestyle you can no longer afford.


Link

May sound nice, but apart from where are all those skilled workers going to magically come from, what happens when the job is completed? Those 450,000 will be out of work.

---------- Post added at 01:49 ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 ----------

The backstop and the political declaration are definitely not Brexit. The backstop seems to be illegal in terms of Article 50. Everything else in the WA currently has a defined endpoint. The problem is that as Remainers have shown, they are going to insist on it being extended, long enough for them to impose Remain in full.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

So the Government shouldn’t fund anything unless it guarantees a “job for life” for those involved in a project? :confused:

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Artificially makes things look better until a Conservative government comes along and has to pick up the pieces, again.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

What utter bovine excrement, we are coming out of austerity because it failed, they told us we had to do it to live within our means and reduce the national debt, neither of which the Tories managed, they missed the targets they themselves set on deficit reduction and added half a trillion to the national debt, for what, to punish the poor and hurt the vulnerable, the tories and their acolytes would have us believe that Labour were over spending but the percentage against gdp is the same now as it was pre banking crisis, what does that say about their stewardship, tells me they're either incompetent or deliberately targeting the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable in our society, so in the latter's case austerity might not have failed, they're not called the nasty party for nothing.

Jacob rees-smug who also says the people can't have a referendum on the final deal because "we might lose it", doubt he's ever been more honest in his life.

These companies want to use the infrastructure and public services this country provides but are less keen on contributing towards them

Problem is general elections should never be about a single issue, important single issue stuff should be handled by a referendum, I myself am in a bit of a bind over this, I feel obligated to vote conservative because the mp helped my mother years ago but I don't like what the austerity they've championed for years has done to the country, seemed more ideological than anything and that's without even thinking about brexit.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

It’s hardly artificial if it’s working on an important piece of work the private sector would never be able to fulfil. Improving the housing stock has a collective common good in energy efficiency and additionally social and health benefits.

Of course nobody wants to pay for it, which is fine, but at least admit that’s grounded in pure ideology. Not whether it’s a good investment by the state or not.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

At this stage before the 2017 General Election, these were the Conservative leads in main polls

ICM: 19%
Panelbase: 17%
YouGov: 19%
Opinium: 16%
Kantar: 24%
ORB: 16%

Actual in general election: 2.5%

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

The Conservatives brought austerity to an end because they managed to achieve the position where they could start to bring down the nation's debt. The half a trillion added to that debt was what was funding the deficit created by Labour. The deficit could not be left as it was - I assume you understand that.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Have they brought down the national debt? No. Are we still running a defect? Yes.

The national debt has never been higher than it’s current position, and the Brexit mess isn’t helping.

So the Tories have not achieved either objective. Austerity is “coming to an end” because in 2017 the Tories got slaughtered on the doorsteps finding people were more concerned about public services and living standards falling.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

That really underlines how dreadful a campaign Teresa May ran in 2017. The chances of the campaign being that bad again are small. It is of course possible that a Tory Prime Minister with a withdrawal agreement in the bag and refraining from threats to steal from the pension pots of his core vote will actually increase his poll lead. ;)

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

They brought in austerity for some (poor people) and not others (rich people) and I suspect there were better ways of cutting the deficit than stripping services to the bone and giving tax cuts to the richest especially when there were record low interest rates at the time that continued throughout this ideological crusade.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Will the Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist, anti-Semite who hates big business message resonate though? They threw the kitchen sink at this in 2017 and the numbers just went up and up.

As bad as May was the Labour Party had an anti-austerity message that was getting through on the doorsteps.

Although you are right Boris does have the “I have a deal” message, but will the deal hold up with Farage saying it’s not Brexit?

Interesting times ahead I think.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Who do you think would do the work, The Government Ltd.

This kind of work has/and is already done by lots of construction companies for council owned properties and housing association properties.

Grants for this type thing have been available in one form or another. I agree it’s a good thing and a good investment if managed properly, and available for all based on the property and not the means of the people living in them.

---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:04 ----------

They didn’t really, also nobody called him a “terrorist”......”terrorist sympathiser” ...yes. The anti-Semitic problem has really evolved since then, refused to go away and he’s done little to stop it too. I don’t think he’s done anything in the last two years and with Brexit especially to improve his standing since 2017, and he lost then.

it wasn’t just anti-austerity, Corbyn managed to move the agenda away from Brexit and con the students with a promise he couldn’t deliver.


Only for the hardest hardliners, people want it over and to move on - with a deal. This may not be the perfect deal, but it’s a deal. I think most Brexiteers could live with it.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Of course they have not brought down the national debt - they have been paying off the deficit.

Austerity has been prolonged because the Lib Dems wouldn't agree all the measures that the Conservatives wanted to introduce from 2010.

The Conservatives now find themselves in the position of being able to spend money again because the deficit has been reduced to levels that make this possible.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Urrm no, they are making promises to spend on everything and cut taxes because there's an election coming. It doesn't add up and people rightly don't believe it. Not so much a magic money tree, than a magic money forest... Same reason fracking has been 'suspended', Bozza was one of its keenest supporters. Lies, lies and more lies, combined with an habitual liar... It's election time alright ! ;)

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

You literally don’t pay off a deficit. As we’ve always suspected you are just banding about terms you don’t fully understand.

You pay off debt.

Deficit is the difference between income and expenditure.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

And there was plenty of wriggle room between the two as well, the true art of conservative politics shows it's head again, convincing poor people to keep the rich in power while all the time making policies against those people's best interests

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

What a surprise, here's another porky pie from Bozza....
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...johnson-column

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

It's an aspiration...

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Yes, I aspire to open the batting for England , but time's running out... ;)

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Are you suggesting that spending should have been turned off so completely, that overnight there was no deficit?:shocked:
Labour added around £200bn of debt before the crash, and over £270bn in the 2 years afterwards. That's without PFI and without the banking system.
Welfare spending alone rose by more than 33%(£20bn) between 2002 and 2006.

That is the central problem, you cannot turn off that sort of spending overnight. The impact carries on for years.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

It’s been nearly ten years. By that rationale everything that happened in the period you describe is a hangover for the Major years. Which, as you know, is an utterly ridiculous notion.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Don’t give up on yourself.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

The policies of the Major years resulted in Labour starting off by continuing to reduce the deficit and paying off the national debt. Until they ripped those spending plans apart and went on a big spending splurge, eg extra £20bn/year on Welfare by 2006. Before 2002 and the ripping up of spending plans, welfare spending was either going down or remaining fairly stable. It can't have been unemployment related because at that time the economy was supposedly doing well.


Just look at the graphs.
Spending on tax credits alone shot up after 2002. The local Housing Allowance rules of 2008, were too generous, and allowed landlords to up their rents and know Housing Benefit would still cover it. The HB spending shot up after 2008.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

So which is it, is there a ten year delay or isn’t there? Or is it just blame Labour at all costs?

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Yes of course it is. Because Labour, in their present form, are dangerous for this country.

I hope they are beaten convincingly, and hopefully an opposition may evolve that offers a credible choice for the nation.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Dangerous for the country??? That’s quite laughable really. There’s not a single policy that can credibly be described as a danger to the UK. I’m not even convinced you’d support a “credible” opposition anyway. Tories or Blairite Tories. It’s all the same.

The propaganda machine is in full force so the 1% must be starting to worry.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

.

A Labour Government is laughable.

It’s not the policies as such ( although the public ownership issue we have discussed on here previously, that you failed to defend/Justify is one) but the people behind them.

It like having Jimmy Saville promise he’ll look after your kids, and you say....” well he seems nice”

intend to steer away from Marxists, communists ....you know..as a matter of principle

I’m not part of the 1%, I know you didn’t ask but i’ll Give a quick history of Pierre.

I’m 49. I grew up in Liverpool in the 80’s under Mrs Thatch. My Father was probably employed 50% of the time. A welder at Cammell Laird’s originally.

We were on benefits, we used to cheat the gas and electric, at times it was very tough.

Any aged 16 I was told that I had better start bringing some money in as my family allowance had now ended. So I did. I got a job, and went to college and studied and worked at the same time. Then went to Uni and worked. I’ve never been unemployed, never as an adult claimed any benefit. Now have a very good lifestyle.p, and am in the higher tax bracket.

But according to Labour, i’m The enemy. In the politics of envy i’m Doing too well. How dare I send my kids to a private school or a tutor ( although Corbyn is privately educated, and Abbot sent her kids to private school). I came from a Labour heartland, and have voted Labour, but not for these.

I believe in a safety net, I believe in welfare. But as an stop gap not a lifestyle.

I’m working class and always will be. Corbyn does not represent the true working class.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

The annual overspending by Labour couldn't be stopped completely overnight. Do you massively reduce tax credits overnight? That massive pre-crash spending cannot be denied. Some of the adjustments didn't start until 2013, and then it wasn't an overnight change for everybody. It took time for people to be subject to any new rules. With HB, the damage had been done, All that could be done is to limit further big increases in rents, that Labour's LHA rules had allowed. Then PFI repayments also started to kick in, adding to costs.


The deficit has gone down consistently since 2010, whereas it consistently went up from 2001 until 2010.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Your assertion is factually incorrect.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

OK it went down in 3 of those years but spiked significantly in 2008/9 and then has consistently reduced.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Except for 2012-13...

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Good to know you can still google for graphs that contradict your first one.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

I know what a deficit is, jfman. The point I'm making is that the difference between income and expenditure was in seriously negative figures and that money had to be made up.

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

You appear to be confusing clarification with contradiction - the second graph showed more detail (numbers as well as chart), whilst the first one only showed a chart with two years that looked similar.

Just like you confused "consistently" with "mostly"... ;)

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Lost or did not gain?

---------- Post added at 08:49 ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 ----------

Let me ask you this question: you say that size of the majority was irrelevant, if the majority was a single person which was possible & allowable under the rules in place, is this then the "will of the people"?

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Yes indeed. Corbyn is already starting to gain in the polling. The message that you cannot trust the Tories is a real one esp. being led by the most untrustworthy PM is modern times.

---------- Post added at 09:02 ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 ----------

A vacant reply .. appropriate I suppose ..

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 

Democracy is the worst system, apart from all the others. Etc etc etc.

Yes, in a vote that is held with a binary question requiring a simple majority outcome, a win by 1 vote is the “will of the people” because that was the means by which the people agreed their will should be determined.

It really is quite a straightforward concept.

To keep this relevant to the election debate (ie not the Brexit referendum), we even had a referendum on alternative votes in parliamentary constituencies. It failed.