Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

These memoirs should be an amazing read, hes been locked in a yurt for months compiling them after all or perhaps he's just been hiding whilst the fuss dies down

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I don't think so, Den. I have consistently described Boris as a buffoon.

The fact that I said he was the favourite for the leadership doesn't make me a fan! Esther McVey is more up my street! :romance:

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Sorry OB, Esther is a bloke in drag, just like 'Maggie'. Everyone knows.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

You just have to destroy every fantasy, don't you, Mr K?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

A major problem I could see with Ms McVey if she was to become PM would be other countries head of states would not understand her accent.:dozey:

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

That may be a good thing. :D

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Perhaps that is his fantasy? ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Sam Gyimah becomes candidate no. 13.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-tory-16241942
Seems the only sensible candidate to me, he proposes another referendum. This could end up with 11 rounds of voting for MPs ! Will they have time before their hols ?

---------- Post added at 09:28 ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 ----------

Oh heck, the secret is out ! ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Another 9 candidates and they will be able to field two football teams.;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

And it would still be more exciting than last night's game ! ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Nothing wrong with her accent. I prefer it to the usual Home Counties one most vanilla politicians have.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

If they choose a leader on looks/accent then may they are using the wrong criteria. However in today's vacuous image obsessed world, it's probably the way to go.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I was in no way suggesting such a thing, but I was opposing discounting her on her accent which would equally be as wrong. That is all.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Didn't say you were old chap, more agreeing with you.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

The Sam Gyimah is standing, she will be an a breath of fresh air I'm sure :erm:

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Maybe he feels a particular side of the argument should be put in the election, rather than hoping to win.

Atm it seems to be a contest of who can deliver the most right wing Brexit, gives wads of cash to health/education plus massively cut taxes. Get elected first, you'll never be brought to account for any lies these days anyway.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Just had a little chuckle at BBC News.

They were interviewing Esther McVey about various things, with the straplines 'Esther McVey on austerity', 'Esther McVey on Brexit' etc.

When it came to her plans for the welfare state (and just as I returned to the room), it said 'Esther McVey on benefits'!

I was taken aback and wondering which benefit she was on, until I realised what was going on :D

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Half of all Tory MPs have now declared their support for a leadership candidate and Boris is now out in front with Gove in second. If Boris finishes in the top 2 of the MPs voting process the leadership is as good as his. He is by far the most popular among the grassroots.

https://order-order.com/2019/06/03/w...-declarations/

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

More like he wants to make it as farcical as the last one, then it was not enough candidates to be taken seriously now it's far to many

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Comes down to 2 in the end though. That's why Bozza allegedly being ahead means nothing. Those currently voting for other candidates may well not back him when their first option is eliminated. Oily snake Gove will triumph, the rest will be left with knives in their backs.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

We have a dropout - James Cleverly
https://news.sky.com/story/james-cle...-race-11734600

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Expect a few more to follow.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Wonder what he's been offered, guess we'll find out when he endorses someone

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Only if he endorses the winner

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

That's the gamble, I see donny has been interfering in the process, surprised there's not been more of an outcry on here like when obama threatened us with the back of the queue, their silence so far has been deafening, hypocrites

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Let us hope it is not Jeremy Hunt.


That guy has done more damage to the NHS than anyone else.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Convenient memory loss TD you know how it works on here.;)

---------- Post added at 08:37 ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 ----------

And yet he still thinks he is doing a grand job.:(:td:

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

They will do/say/promise whatever they need to get power.

I'm afraid if we want Brexit we will be begging the US for a deal. They will have the upper hand and can demand what they want, including access to the NHS. 'Promises' from any candidate can be safely ignored, they'll have for private healthcare for themselves anyway.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

After 40-odd years of Labour continuously weaponising the NHS against the Tories I’m frankly astonished that any of you are so gullible as to still believe any of it.

Clue: the NHS has been under Tory control for most of its history. They have never privatised it or sold it off. It always has been, and remains, free at point of use.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Might not be up to us in future, might be up to the US. That's the point you seem to have missed old chap.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Err ... no ... my point is that claims like the one you’ve just made are self-evidently bat***** crazy and, frankly, beneath the level of debate I generally expect from most of the regular contributors on here (regardless of political leanings).

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Labour and Conservatives are pretty much the same in that both are very culpable as to the current state of the NHS as both treat it constantly as a political football and both have had policies that were very much detrimental to the NHS for the last 40 years.

Having been a very regular patient in the NHS for the last 25 years l have noticed many changes including technical advances , new treatments and medicines that keep people living for longer but l have also noticed how much certain areas of the NHS have sadly deteriorated in the last 10 to 20 years.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

The Problem is the NHS can't keep going like it is...more and more money needs to be put into it each year. I'm not saying sell the NHS off to the likes of Trump but I can see why some services are going private.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Majority of voters think Boris Johnson would make a bad PM.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...box=1559735169

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

A slightly pointless observation, given that governments are very rarely elected with more than 50% of the vote. A majority of voters always think any Tory would make a bad PM. A majority also always thinks any Labour politician would make a bad PM.

There is also analysis available this morning that suggests, among those who might be persuaded to vote Tory, that Boris is the most popular.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Fact is the public don't get to decide who the next PM is. Just a load of right wing OAPs do.

How is he going to be PM from behind bars anyway? ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

He's not been found guilty yet and people are all already urging him to complete the sentence! :D
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8934451.html

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

You can be pretty sure that he will be found not guilty on all counts Andrew...

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Yes but we all know he is guilty, we're all witnesses to the crime ! :D

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Wrong ... the Queen decides, on advice as to which MP is most likely to have the confidence of Parliament.

Political party members always choose their party leader. That has always been the case, so there’s really no point in all this confected outrage every time a leader changes mid-term.

As remainers never tire of reminding us these days, we live in a Parliamentary democracy. We do not, and have never, directly elected our executive. That’s equally the case when your favoured party is in government or in opposition.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Maybe true constitutionally "Chris", but in real life the next leader of our country will be chosen by 0.26% of the population.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

No, they will be nominated that way. They get, and keep, the leadership job only as long as Parliament has confidence. And we do live in a parliamentary democracy, right?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

If you say so old chap ;) God knows how TM has managed to last so long then !

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Actually Chris is right Mr K as we do live in a parliamentary democracy.;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Good news for Remainers then :)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Hypoctites? How so? Did any of Trumps comments come anywhere close to altering a national democratic referendum?

Had he been in power at the time of the referendum and did the same as Obama you can be sure there would have been the same outrage.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

See ... you love it really. Or at least when it’s convenient ... ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

How the US sees it...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...brexit-1353482

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I guess one difference is that Cameron asked for Obama to comment. I've read nothing to say that May did.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Might have escaped your notice but there's soon to be a vote by a shockingly small number of people to decide our new leader and the smaller the number the greater the impact any influence exerted will have

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Major
Brown
May

Since 1990 more of our Prime Ministers entered office having not just won a General Election than those that have so I don't see why it's still a surprise for people. It's part of our system. Although at least two of them felt they needed a mandate eventually. The new Tory Leader will have the problem of a deeply divided Parliament and not in a position to argue they have their own personality mandate so it is going to be difficult for them.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It's not a surprise. The 'system' is wrong. Hasn't ended well for any of these 'unelected' PMs.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I agree I just don't think it's an outrage.

I do think it means the PM doesn't have a mandate to radically change direction though. Whatever we tell ourselves but it being a collection of MPs the party leader is factor in how people vote and the direction the party can go.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

He can’t be found guilty.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

If it goes to a criminal trial, it’s one of the options.

A summary from a criminal law barrister.

https://www.legalcheek.com/2019/05/t...-happens-next/

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

But he didn’t lie, so how can how he be found guilty?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It won't get that far but it would presumably be the court's job to decide if he lied or not.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

He did lie, how can he found innocent?

Up to a court to decide.

He is guilty of being an idiotic buffoon, if nothing else.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

If it was as clear cut as this, I doubt the case would have got this far.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

The £350M figure was correct. Any trainee solicitor would see this off.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

if the trainee solicitor has a magic wand and could shout "expelliarmus" to all the fact-checking websites then you might be onto something. :D

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It’s dead simple. We send £350 million gross to the EU; after that, regardless of how much is then spent back in UK, that spending is beyond the democratic control of the British people or their representatives. It is perfectly acceptable for a political campaign to point out that we are losing control of a sum of money and to propose that we re-take control and make our own spending decisions.

What I think has really triggered the hard remainers of the (mostly) liberal, metropolitan left, is that the Leave campaign had the sheer nerve to invoke the sacred name of the NHS on the side of the bus. The NHS, as we know, is a sacred cow, that must not be used to try to persuade voters about anything, except of course if you’re a Labour politician trying to persuade people how nasty Tories are, in which case it’s fair game.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It's even simple. A public servant was told repeatedly by the Office of National Statistics to stop using incorrect information. He didn't.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/w...on-brexit.html

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

It was a clever ploy which I'm sure you're aware of, Chris. Create a false figure for the contributions higher than we send. Remainers complain about this and all the debate focuses on the contributions we send the EU and not the value and higher GDP we get from being a member.
The NHS was a clever ploy too - use the logo without permission and make it apper that it was being endorsed by the NHS.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Well, it’s a moribund argument now anyway. Perhaps the court process will throw up something that hasn’t already been said a thousand times...

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

£350 million a week doesn’t include the rebate

£350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate.

The rebate is applied straight away

The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week.

So . . apparently, according to the ridiculous figures above, we're getting a £100 million rebate on money that we didn't even pay?

Any idea why we didn't just pay £250 million and stuff the rebate?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Well in that case I am going to sue my employer as the annual figure that they state is my salary, is no where near what I receive in my pay packet.

They have been lying to me all my working life.

---------- Post added at 06:51 ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 ----------

It’s not hard to understand, this kind of think happens on all kinds on financial transactions all the time. It’s Because £350M is what is on the books, the fact that they give us the £100m back doesn’t remove the liability from our ledger, as at any time the rebate could be removed so we still have to account for it.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Go for it... ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Full Fact have a good breakdown here: https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

I suspect the case will hinge on the claim we 'send' £350 million rather than we are 'billed' £350 million or the EU membership fee 'costs' £350 million send we literally do not send that amount at all. I think it was a lie and it's a bit silly to argue it isn't, no one truly believes that the claim was talking about a hypothetical amount especially since the claim was that the money would be available for the NHS which is clearly would not.

But to me this is standard politics. The Government also were involved in 'creatively' using numbers when they claimed it would cost £4,300 per household to Leave: https://fullfact.org/europe/4300-que...usehold-worse/

I don't think this case will get anywhere and there are troublesome consequences if it did. If this case actually goes ahead then you would every election litigated after the fact by the losing side.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I agree, there do seem to have been some weak attempts at defending an obvious lie.
But I think that a successful prosecution here would serve politics better and in the longer term, help remove some of the distrust of politicians.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

You do have to prove a lie and and that is going to be nigh on impossible to do in this case in a court of law.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I think one aspect is that he was told on multiple occasions by the Office for National Statistics to stop using that figure but he continued to do so. As a public servant, I guess that's the equivalent of someone in your compliance department telling you to stop doing something that's wrong and you continue doing so.

With MPs' expenses, Tony Blair's WMD Iraq situation, investigations into Islamohobia and anti-Semitsim in the two main parties and the Aaron Banks-Nigel Farage financial investigations, UK politics can only benefit from a successful prosecution here.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Just because he was told not so use it, doesn’t mean the figure isn’t a matter of fact.

Again, doesn’t make the figure factually incorrect

Won’t happen, and out of that list Blair is the one that should have prosecuted the two don’ Even compare. Stating a factual figure v deaths of hundreds of thousands of people....hmmmmm

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Damien has given Factchecking links showing the slogan to be a lie.
If you feel Blair has a case to answer then why not take out a private prosecution? The Boris one may have more success as it's not about something that happened some 16 years ago!

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Red Bull gives you wings - get the lawyers onto that.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Well of course Blair has a case to answer! Why pick on Boris?

It is a ridiculous prosecution brought solely in an attempt to block Brexit.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Why would prosecuting BoJo block Brexit? Most if not all candidates for leader of the Conservative Party are running on a pro-Brexit platform. As an aside, the leaver purists in the Conservative Party blocked Brexit effectively or we would have left on 29/3!

As it's a private prosecution, it's up to the individual concerned to decide whom to prosecute. I suspect they've done more due diligence on this than you and me.

If anyone feels another politician has a better case to answer - fantastic, but they will need to put their words into actions for it to happen.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Well now that depends on what you consider pro brexit? pro brexit is when a no deal is on the table and how many are opting for that?

TM was all for no deal she said it many times and where are we now?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Boris case thrown out of court by judges.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48554853

I’d say his way is open to win the leadership now ... anyone wavering over supporting him while this was pending will now be able to come out in favour.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

She lied. Maybe she should be prosecuted. Oh wait a minute... :D

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Well someone has made a penny or two from it. Will the 'private individual' who brought the prosecution now have to repay any of the unused crowdfunding, sell his London flat, and stop paying himself his salary?

. . . or will he remain as a freeloading entrepreneur living off other people :D

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Feel free to give it a go. ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

There’s someone very like this in Scotland (actually not in Scotland at all, he lives in Bath, bizarrely, but he runs a bonkers independence website called Wings over Scotland), by the name of Stuart Campbell.

He sponges is funded by donations to his website from his readers, who are, shall we say, slightly to one side of the mainstream of Scottish independence campaigners. He recently tried to sue Kezia Dugdale, the former Scottish Labour leader, who opined in a newspaper column that he had made comments that were homophobic. He lost.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I don't understand why they're all such freaks. Why can't they act normal? They all have to have this really uncomfortable moments where they pretend to be what they perceive to be human. Matt Hancock swore and he wears jeans just like us normal people you see! Jeremy Hunt likes to run, Michael Gove likes a little bit of crack cocaine of an evening.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Of the official launches so far:-

If anyone has a chance at this and surviving, i'd say Hunt.

Boris has too many enemies, who do all they can to sink him.

Hancock: Who?

Raab:- I like him but I do not think he is up to the task of true leadership.

Gove: After the revelations this weekend - his chances have sank. I don't like him and I think he looks kinda "Geeky".

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Hunt seems to be the cat that seems to have more then nine lives.

---------- Post added at 12:01 ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 ----------

Indeed he has a host of political enemies and is likely to turn as many off him as are likely to support him.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------

Yes indeed who? as he has certainly got no great appeal to hardly anyone.

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------

He is seem as too much of a hardliner who will also find he has as many enemies as he has friends.

---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 ----------

The skeletons in the cupboard all come out in the end and were not one of the newspapers about to reveal all?.

He is obviously related to Brutus as many find his untrustworthy and he is a political figure who will not hesitate in stabbing his opponents in the back if it furthers his own political career.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Very aggressive Brexiter interrupts McVey's speech.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-48579887

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

But he's a Remainer Mick? Surely not? ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

BREAKING: Conservative MP, Sam Gyimah, the only candidate backing a second referendum, withdraws from the leadership race citing a lack of support (the nomination deadline was 5pm).

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:04 ----------

Latest: The 1922 Committee says Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock, Mark Harper, Jeremy Hunt, Sajid Javid, Andrea Leadsom, Esther McVey, Dominic Raab and Rory Stewart have received enough support to take part in the Conservative Party leadership contest.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

And here are the current odds on who the bookies think will be leader.

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics...rvative-leader

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

https://inews.co.uk/news/media/jerem...ntender-video/

https://twitter.com/i/status/1138017220888539136

:D :D A freudian slip that anyone could excuse !

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Happens all the time.

Meanwhile, the weather saw plenty of Rain in Scunthorpe today. ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Good summary from Sky News
https://news.sky.com/story/tory-lead...jibes-11739214

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Oh no not sam, thought she was going to win as well... :sleep:

Yes all to frequently, was funny ish the first half dozen times, now I just think how unorigional, uncouth and dull can you be, seems to happen a lot on the bbc to for some reason

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is against in Parliament changes of Prime Minister it seems - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...tish-ally.html

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

He's obviously changed his mind. Isn't that why remainers push for a second referendum, for those that have changed their minds?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Some remainers do, some remainers don't.