Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It's amazing how politics can eventually led to the 'other' side being entirely dehumunished. How lacking in empathy do you have to be to mock children that survived a school shooting? You don't have to agree with their politics to empathise with them on a human level.

D'Souza is just a nasty man whose hate has taken over entirely, it's lack a cancer that just consumes someone. Yet he has probably rarely met the people he hates such as these school children.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

God...I didn't know anything about this news! RIP...it's such a problem in US school, heard about many cases before, mostly because of bullying issue.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

This cartoon is doing the rounds in the US, it's very powerfull.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I wonder if enough USA politicians children were killed (god forbid) by a gun nut would there be movement on a complete ban on guns in the USA. A Trump/administration proposal to raise the age of gun ownership to 21. Dhooooo. Knumb Skulls as if that would make a difference.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Probably wouldn't make any difference, they are all mad.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Why didn't Obama introduce restrictions? In this case and the Vegas incident, guns were bought legally BEFORE Trump came to office. Also in this instance guns were obtained ILLEGALLY. Laws won't stop that.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Aww come on nomadking, you know it's hypocrisy and a little bit of Trump Derangement Syndrome doing the rounds again. ;)

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Obama did sign an executive order to ensure those with mental illnesses were shown in background checks: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...e-and-make-our

Here is the NRA praising Trump for repealing that law: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017...ohibition-rule

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I pointed out previously that the rule that was put in place for mental health checks did not go far enough, there was two criteria which meant background checks were implemented specifically related to Social security benefits for Mental Health disabilities, it would not have stopped the Florida Shooter, had he not been receiving them or entitled to them.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Cruz PASSED the mental health checks by the FBI.
February 2017 and Trump was barely in office. How do guns laws deal with that?

Chicago

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

There has been over 100 attempts to bring gun legislation to Congress since 2011.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-man...ed-since-2011/

One example

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

In the last 24 hours, Trump has announced that he has signed a Memorandum instructing the Department of Justice to see if Bump Stocks can be outlawed, that is a start, as that stop Semi-Automatic Machine guns becoming fully automatic.

He is suppose to have announced today, age restrictions, that's another step in the right direction, a person cannot buy alcohol under the age of 21, but they can buy a gun. Plain wrong.

I said the other day, it's gone beyond the point to totally outlaw guns completely, because no gun amnesty will fully remove every gun from the streets of every State and that's nearly 1/3 of a billion guns and I don't think half of America will willingly part with them without causing a civil war.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I agree it didn't go far enough. I don't think Obama did enough. Still it was at least something and yet Trump stuck it down.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

So what has Trump's solution been ? Repeal the checks that were in place? What's he replaced them with ?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

So what?

Crimes still happen despite laws designed to stop them. This is an argument for better laws whilst at the same time understanding you can't stop every crime. You strike a balance where you can.

No thinks you can stop every shooting but we can try and stop them being such a regular occurrence.

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

Good. It's a start.

I still think they need to treat guns like they treat cars. You need a licence and each gun must be registered. The licence is revoked if you're irresponsible with it, commit a felony or the police have reason to suspect you're violent.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

But at Sandy Hook, the guns belonged to his mother. No checks would have stopped that.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Guns don't kill people... Rappers do.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Hmm, I thought I had said earlier on, it is down to congress to legislate new laws and introduce such frank and proper background checks and changes, not the President.

We cannot just keep calling out Trump on this, Congress has to act to implement proper procedures and background checks, not silly flimsy rules that do not have full and frank en-catchment.

They can act without the President.

Remember..... Three Branches of Government Mr K!

Executive: That's the President and his Administration, he signs law in to force and enforces it.

Legislation: That's Congress, they are the ones who write law, say yay or nay, if they pass it, then it send it to the President to sign it in to law if he agrees to it, he has Veto power but it just gets passed back to the House and Senate, who then have a vote to pass it in to law, 2/3 vote required to pass in both chambers.

Judicial: Supreme and lower Courts. Ensures and interprets the Constitution and has the power to limit the above two Branches of government.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It seems Trump has just suggested teachers should have weapons: https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/st...36226118176768

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Some people are highlighting videos of students involved, telling the media that they didn't know what was happening because they had been told by officials that there would be a drill taking place that day. There is more than one such video. What this means is anyone's guess, but it emits a disntinctly fishy odour. Either those videos were faked in order to spread disinformation, or they're real and the students were really told that. As usual, we'll never know what actually occurred.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Can’t fix everything, so don’t do anything?

Nobody needs .50 calibre sniper rifles at home, or auto or semi-auto weapons at home. Keep a shotgun or handgun for home defence, with a shotgun or bolt action rifle for hunting, with everything else kept in a gun club. Proper registration, training, and insurance for gun owners, just like for car drivers.

Probably too sensible - easier just for schools to keep getting shot up.

Why loosen the law to allow silencers?

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics...vegas-shooting

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I seem to remember hearing that over 50% of guns in America were owned by 3% of the population, interesting statistic

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I saw one statistic say, for every 1 person, there is 12 guns in circulation (This doesn't mean 1 person owns 12 guns, however some Americans may do as there is no limit that I am aware of..)

The Las Vegas shooter had an absolute arsenal of weapons, guns, rifles and ammunition, that could have suited a army squad and he owned and I believe he was able buy them all legally.

Earlier, the President hosted a emotional listening session in the White House of some of the victims parents from various school massacres. It was a long session, well over an hour and I watched it all, truly moving. Particular the dad whose daughter died last week in the Florida shooting.



About 20.55 minutes in is when he speaks. He said this is not a party vs party issue.

Trump asked for some suggestions. The Second Amendment is not going away. The meeting was about protecting schools, some present felt schools were soft targets, with having gun free zones at some campuses.

If people don't have the inclination to watch the entire listening debate, just watch the father speak at 20.55 minutes in.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Looked it up as that figure seemed incredibly high! One per person on average as of 2007 might be more accurate, although considering there were twice as many guns then than there were in 1968 God knows how many more have been acquired in the 10 years since 2007

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esti...ita_by_country

That girls dad could have been anyone in the country, they should bare his and his families suffering in mind, a solution is achievable

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Giving Teachers guns is treating a symptom, not a cause.

After Grenfell, we didn’t suggest putting fire extinguishers on the corner of every street; when car crash deaths rose, we made cars safer (crumple zones, non burst fuel tanks, seat belts, air bags, etc.), we didn’t suggest all civvies should receive simple paramedic training to help after the crash. After 9/11, airport security got stricter, it wasn’t suggested that they arm air stewards/stewardesses (and I’m not talking about Sky Marshals - they’ve always had those).

To be competent with a firearm, you need regular training, and that’s just target practice - trying to shoot an individual in the midst of many others makes it even more difficult; How would the First Responders know who was the bad guy, and who were the teachers? How would the firearms be kept secure when not in use? How many teachers would need to be armed? (There were 2 armed guards at the Florida school). What’s to stop a pupil knocking the teacher out and taking their gun?

Armed teachers would probably only intervene after the shooting starts - wouldn’t it be better if the shooting didn’t start.

The saying ‘it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun’ was said by someone trying to sell two guns.

I understand the US citizens strong feelings about the 2nd Amendment, but if they insist on needing guns so they can be a ‘militia’, they need to be a ‘well regulated militia’.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

People are going around making bogus claims that X, Y, and Z wouldn't have happened if such and such had been done. A fundamental problem is that guns in the US cannot be uninvented.

Probably the biggest factor in any attack is the media going on and on about previous attacks. Same as with so many other issues. It is the media that are effectively promoting them.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Making hypothetical suggestions is not making bogus claims..also if the media don't report the FULL facts that's just censorship. Don't shoot the messenger in other words.Actually try to get to grips with the real issue.The best way is to mention previous cases but not to name the perpetrators,to name the victims instead and to call out those who will not address the basic issue.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Absolutely agree with you.

How can they say arming teachers could have prevented this?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It’s understanding the American human ‘psyche’ regarding guns and the 2nd Amendment. Here, we are ingrained from early life that guns are dangerous and highly illegal and cannot be bought at the local shopping malls.

In the U.S the reverse of what we are used to is true, and there were survivors in that meeting in the White House, who still believe in the 2nd Amendment, but still demonstrate how easy it is to buy ‘weapons of war’ that was this kids words, not mine. That a kid was able to buy an AR at 20 years of age with an expired ID. The other big problem, is the the NRA. Powerful gun lobby, who last night I believe are still opposed to age restrictions in buying a gun, someone needs to tell them to shut up.

How do I feel about a teacher possessing a gun? Not good. But I saw one teacher comment elsewhere that if they have no choice to save children’s lives, they’d rather be able to be able to fire bullets back rather than be in the line of fire or running for cover and watching kids get shot to death.

Columbine massacre should have been a wake up call on guns. Sandy Hook, where kids of 6 or 7 years of age were shot to death, that deffo should have been, we really need to do something here. Las Vegas. I love Las Vegas, I have been there multiple times, it saddens me that in places I’ve stood, was the worst mass shooting incident in modern U.S history, again, nothing was done. As soon as gun restrictions get mentioned in the U.S, that American psyche kicks in and it just for some reason, draws Americans to buy more guns, in a panic mode session.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I totally agree with you, but it's not just the American psyche, it's the NRA - they've spent so long telling people the Government is coming for your guns, people believe it, when the facts don't back those statements up. The NRA needs to represent safe gun owners, not the weapons manufacturers.

The NRA always equate gun control with no one having guns - car safety regulations doesn't mean no cars, building safety regulations doesn't mean no buildings, but somehow the NRA are allowed to peddle this myth, and because they fund politicians (and fund against anyone who doesn't agree with them), they succeed.

Could you imagine the outcry if Pharma companies were allowed to supply everyday prescription and non-prescription drugs where the side-effects outweighed the benefits, and it was found that the politicians who passed the laws allowing this were receiving millions of dollars in support from the Pharma companies? They don't even allow the CDC to conduct research on gun violence - you know, so there could be unbiased evidence-based discussion...

http://theconversation.com/why-is-th...answered-92163 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-the-us-agenda

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

What saddened me, is that after watching that White House meeting, this wasn’t about politics or what our views are on Trump. That on the official twitter page of the Democrats, all they could say, was the ‘President was just paying lip service and won’t do nowt’. Well, he’s already took some action on buck stocks, he looked like he is in favour of age restrictions, he is going to have to ignore the NRA, sponsors or no sponsors of him.

In situations like this, the two major parties, need their heads banging together. Drop the party vs party bullshit and draw up bipartisan changes, that saves lives. Keep having this them vs. us attitude is wrong and will not solve anything.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Once again, totally agree.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Can someone help?

I’m trying to understand what the difference between ‘give teachers guns’ and ‘the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience‘ - doesn’t the second phrase still mean give teachers guns, even if it is a subset?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I think he's trying to point out and failing is, giving guns to Ex-Vets/Police/Trained who are now teachers who can handle a gun, as opposed to just giving guns to everyday teachers. But you're right, they are still 'teachers'.

A parent in that meeting yesterday suggested it and Trump did actually say, not everyone would agree or would find it controversial, but I have said before, guns are not going away in America, so next best thing is to eradicate the gun free zones that does exist in schools, it's sad, that there could be the risk of a gun sling out in a school but there has to be some protection for kids instead of just running for cover or teachers using their own bodies as shields and dying in the process.

Jake Sherman from Politica tweeted this a short time ago when Trump tweeted about wanting to implement age restrictions to 21... That Congress may not do it. :banghead:

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/stat...78033674448897

---------- Post added at 16:56 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

Now it's getting personal....

Piers Morgan replies with:

You go Piers!

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/stat...11280059977729

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Church in Pennsylvania asks worshippers to bring their assault rifles to blessing


Tim Elder, the church's director of world missions, said it believes the AR-15 symbolises the "rod of iron" mentioned in the Bible's apocalyptic book of Revelation.

https://news.sky.com/story/church-in...ssing-11261762

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I love America, but sometimes I find their. 'we know better' superiority complex just a tad infuriating...

"It's like @piersmorgan thinks Americans should take a Briton's view on guns seriously."

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Jesus of course being a big fan of semi-automatic rifles. It's what he used to wreak terrible vengeance/judgement on those who betrayed him.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Matthew 26:31

Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, 'I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP OF THE FLOCK SHALL BE SCATTERED.'
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/02/14.jpg

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Nothing will happen while the NRA run the government.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Those that destroy thy weapons shall become human.

Richard S 1:1

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

So we have an armed officer on the sceen who didn't intervene and Trump is talking about arming untrained teachers to do his job instead. :rolleyes:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Trump calls campus deputy who hid from school gunman a 'coward' and says: 'He certainly did a poor job'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz57x6sf4uJ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/u...n-control.html

Excellent news.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Wrong thread. :rolleyes:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The only coward is Trump for not standing up to the NRA and trying to.make a scapegoat of an individual public servant. It doesn't explain why this keeps happening again and again. Giving guns to teachers !? What planet is he on ? What if a kid steals the gun ?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Your dislike of Trump doesnt change the fact that the deputy failed to do his job.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It happened again and again under former Presidents..... what did they do to stand up to the NRA?

They are powerful and have been for a long time...because they have been allowed to get that way... I did not see past Presidents do much to curb their powerful hold...

Are they cowards too? Or are you just being your usual hypocrite self because it gives you another chance to have another pop at Trump?

And btw... That was no public servant. He apparently stood outside listening to kids get shot to death. He neglected his duty as a law enforcement official. Too right he was fired or resigned his post.

Also....Giving guns to teachers came from a suggestion from a parent of a survivor at that listening meeting on Wednesday, because guns are not going anywhere, I’ve explained why many times now. It is too late in America to ban guns, there is simply too many in circulation.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

And once again, Trump,spokesman Mick, said..........

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

FFS grow up. If you have nothing meaningful to contribute then stop reading this topic. :rolleyes:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

If they'd restricted gun sales to over 21s which apparently Trump agrees with, it would have been far harder for Nikolas Cruz to purchase his weapon. If it just prevents one murder but not all murders, restricting to over-21s is still worth trying. There's no downside unless you sell weapons to teenagers for a living.

---------- Post added at 01:02 ---------- Previous post was at 00:47 ----------

Whilst Trump gushes adoringly in support of the politicians' cash cow that is the NRA
American brands are dropping the gunmakers' favourite organisation after consumer pressure but TV platforms like Amazon and Apple offer the NRA app.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b01e9e56bb57af

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The NRA have been wanting teachers to have guns for years. NRA likes more guns. It's ridiculous to have teachers walking around schools with guns but once again the NRA wins.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

So when another school shooting happens and the armed teacher kills an innocent student in the crossfire(assuming the teacher doesn't have an assault rifle in which case more than one could be innocent victims) is that OK? One life to save others?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

There seems to be a low regard for life in the US. Let face it, they accept executing innocent people, particularly if they're poor and black.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Trump condemns gun-free zones at CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference).

CPAC applauds wildly.

CPAC is a gun-free zone...

---------- Post added at 09:15 ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 ----------

It’s not about banning guns, it’s about putting more controls in place.

According to Trump, there’s too many illegal immigrants in America, but he’s going to do something about that - why not apply the same logic to guns?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Of course it is. But we are looking at this from a UK perspective. I’ve said it’s never an ideal situation, it’s crazy but in a ‘gun’ ridden country, where guns are not going anywhere, what’s the next best solution?

Is allowing a deranged kid being able to walk in to a school in the US, unchallenged and having no resistance with a powerful gun for minutes until swat teams arrive?

Would I have my son, in a defenceless situation with folk running for cover and not having anyone on site to take the shooter down?

Absolutely not. This is a real consideration I have to weigh up, if I do decide to live in States in next few years and my son comes with me.

I’d prefer there to be no guns at all, like here.

It’s too late to ban guns in US, with 330,000,000 of them in circulation. How does one huge country manage to ensure every gun is removed from everyone?

I’ve asked this many times and no one seems able to say how it can be realistically achieved and forcing every gun owner to willingly part with their guns? How?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

That’s just repeating a NRA talking point - no one is saying people have to give up guns, just to have more controls in place.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

That’s a ridiculous assertion, for a start, 19 States don’t have the death penalty.

There were 23 Executions in US in 2017.

13 White.
8 Black.
2 Hispanic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...States_in_2017

In 2016, there was 20 Executions.

16 White
2 Black
2 Hispanic.

That’s why your assertion of more blacks being executed, is ridiculous. But facts has never really been your strong point, has it Mr K?

Trying to insert some racist agenda in the justice system, is a bit low even for you, especially when it’s not the case as the above numbers actually show.

---------- Post added at 09:47 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

No that’s my view. I don’t copy any body’s view. I don’t agree with guns at all, that’s not an NRA talking point is it?

So you mention controls...

..Such as ?

Trumps considered...

Bump stocks getting banned.
Age restrictions.
Realistic and stronger mental health background checks.

Acting on known intel. So many things were ignored about Nikolas Cruz, it was a totally preventable this attack.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It's obviously not about absolute numbers but the chances of being executed in the US are higher if you're black than white as the country is composed of 13% black people and 72% white people.
So, a proportionate number of executions in 2017 would have been more like 17 white (not 13) and 3 black (not 8). We would need to track back over several years to see a full picture.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Erm, Hello? Of course it is about absolute numbers, I’ve just posted them with a credible source. Those are the numbers.

I’ve just highlighted data which totally blows this racist assertion that more blacks are executed. It’s not the case at all.

So far this year, 3 White, 1 Black has been executed. And these are folk who have been on death row for a long time.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I think we all do, inadvertently but no one can recognise it in themselves. You won't be the last person to be accused of being Trump's official spokesman but behind every wise crack there may be an element of truth, however exaggerated. That's why it's important that we all should read/watch broadly from The Guardian to The Telegraph, from Sky News to the BBC and be sceptical of press releases and videos from Trump, the NRA, Corbyn, Nick Clegg etc.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

That's a false choice. No one believes that can happen.

What can be done is better control on the guns sold now. You can start by registering each gun to a person, have a waiting period and mental health checks, and enforce it federally so no state can have an exemption. It shouldn't be easier to buy a gun than drive a car.

It's not going to stop every attack but over time restricting the use of guns and making sure that any gun is registered to a specific person might help stop them circulating around so freely.

Guns in the classroom is an insane idea that was the content of satire not that long ago. There are all sorts of things that could go wrong when you increase the numbers of guns around children. Whose going to be to blame when those guns are fired at someone who is not a mass killer? Either because of panic, a breakdown or a confrontation that gets out of hand?

The NRA probably can't believe their luck that yet another mass school shooting is going to give them one of their prized ambitions.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

People can accuse me of what they want, they are wrong and I will challenge them on stuff that is not accurate.

I have no intention of reading a crappy far left rag, such as the guardian. Not a chance. Don’t buy The Sun or any other form of newspaper. I don’t know how many more times I have to state this. They are a waste of money. By the time they are printed and distributed, they are old news.

I don’t watch press releases of any political party or leader either.

---------- Post added at 10:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Damien, what and how many times do I have to state, I don’t agree with guns...?

I don’t agree with them. At all. Is that any more clearer?

There has to be some protections against an attack, in a gun ridden country.

You mention extra restrictions on new gun purchases. That does not solve the guns already in circulation and owned, how are people going to be forced to register on a compulsory order... there will be a riot and civil disobedience, if people are forced to either hand over their guns or have extra registry checks.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

What I'm confused about is that you don't agree with guns and then state there has to be some sort of protection against attack in a gun-ridden country. What do you mean by the second part of this sentence?

I don't think it's realistic to ask everyone to hand in their guns but no one is proposing that. Stop the sale to teenagers and mentally unwell people and you will reduce some attacks. Every life saved is worthwhile.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The crazy situation we've got is Trump proposing more guns is the solution. It's mad, we all know it is. It's difficult not to conclude the NRA has a hold over him.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

That in a gun ridden country, you cannot have soft targets, schools with gun free zones are exactly that. They have to be protected, in highly gun cultured country.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The solution would be to gate off school campuses and have airport-style security checks on entry, plus armed guards on the perimeter. Increasing the circulation of firearms within a vulnerable area is insane.

In fact they should definitely make schools behave like airports, it might finally make America realise what a sick culture it's become.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

And who has a hold over the NRA? The manufacturers? And maybe...
FBI ‘investigating whether Russian money went to NRA’s campaign to help elect Donald Trump’

---------- Post added at 11:15 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

I certainly think that's more sensible than arming teachers but would you not just relocate the problem to McDonalds, cinemas etc and not prevent it?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Why am I not surprised ? It always comes back to the Russians, their divide and conquer campaign is working brilliantly both here and in the US.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Almost like Junker and Barnier. Is there a problem? More Europe!

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Of course that’s what would happen. To be frank, if arming teachers had a deterrent effect that, too, would result in disaffected loners targeting their classmates in McDonalds or the cinema instead.

The solution is to spend the next generation progressively rolling back gun ownership in the USA. The problem with enacting such a solution is that the debate has been very effectively framed by the likes of the NRA as an issue of personal freedom and the very definition of what it means to be American. The protesters need to re-take control of the national identity before they can effectively influence the gun ownership policies that flow from it.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

You really didn't highlight anything at all

It strikes me as odd, what next, taking away firemans hoses and giving them flamethrowers

I think they have a chance of achieving something this time, looks to me like enough people have finally stood up and said enough is enough, a majority of NRA membership I understand feels the same to but are being dragged by the nose by their leadership, be interesting to see what happens there in terms of policy or who actually remains in charge of the organisation, who I'd imagine hope this just runs out if steam and goes away till the next atrocity

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The answer would be to put machine guns on the roof tops at all education facilities, in the passage ways of the said education facilities with machine guns implanted in the walls so they can be activated if an intruder shows up with a guns. Arm every American citizen from the age of 10 upwards with AR-50's, hand guns, hand grenades, daggers, flame throwers 24/7/365. Welcome to United States of America or should I say United States of the NRA.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Yes I did and you haven't even bothered to justify why I haven't, but hey ho, not that you can because what I said was correct. More Whites were executed in 2017 and 2016.... 2015... 2013.... 2012...2011...than blacks and Hispanics, only 2014 was the exception.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I didn't bother because it's so obvious, first of all you only chose to highlight 2 years which could have been aberrations, then you didn't bother to use it as percentages of population convicted of murder, nor did you bother to look at the severity of crime to see if the death penalty is given for crimes of a similar nature between the races.

Mr K's real salient point isn't in question though, if you're poor and commit the same crime as someone with money you have a far greater chance of getting the death penalty than the other guy. I've posted on here before about trials where the defence attorney fell asleep during evidence or was drunk during trials seeking a death sentence

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I did not need to use percentages because I used actual total figures, percentages is irrelevant.

More White people have been executed than blacks over the last 8 years.

That is not what is being talked about, the assertion was more blacks are being executed than whites and that somehow, there is a racist affirmation being placed in the justice system. The statistics speak for themselves on the wikipedia pages.

In 2017, 2016, 2015, 2013, 2012 and 2011. More Whites were executed as per the death penalty, I do not need percentages or fractions, the numbers speak for themselves.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Are those absolute numbers or as a percentage of population?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Absolute numbers, last year, 23 people executed.

13 White. 8 Black. 2 Hispanics.

If we really want percentages...

56% of Whites executed.

35% Blacks.

9% Hispanics. All in 2017 and they were all males who were executed.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

And according to the US Census, the USA is 73% White, 13% Black/African American.

So if you correlate total population against executions, there would be 3/4 of 23 would be White (around 16), and 1/7 would be Black/African-American (around 3 or 4).

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The distinction is important because the different racial groups aren’t of equal size in the general population. If the %age of executions of males of each racial group are broadly in line with that group’s representation in the population then fine, but if one group is over-represented, that may indicate an imbalance in the system.

According to those stats, just over a third (35%) of males executed last year were black. Yet the Afro-Caribbean population of the USA is 12.5%. That tends to suggest that black men are seriously over-represented on death row. Meanwhile the white population is around 72% but the white population of death row is 56%, which is a significant under-representation.

It might be that black men commit more serious crime. There could be sociological reasons for that, due to long term inequality and deprivation meaning a disproportionately high number of young black men are exposed to the environment that is likely to push them towards criminality. Or it might be that the criminal justice system is biased in some way. Juries may be more likely to convict, courts may be more likely to pass the death sentence. Whatever the reason, there’s clearly a problem.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Scarily enough, I made a near identical post yesterday morning.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Sigh. The statement was, "More blacks are executed than whites.'

Factually incorrect and has been over several years.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I think the actual statement was this:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

On what actual evidence is this based ?

and who are "they" ?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

They = the US public. Evidence? Well here's some:- https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-black-inmates

However even the US seems to be turning their back on the death penalty. It just doesn't work and there are mistakes, aswell as it depends how rich you are. These continuing atrocities show it's no deterrent to nutters; least they can do is make it harder for them to obtain guns.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43193222

Well that's probably the end of the matter.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The shooting is horrendous enough, but when people

- say that the shooting was a hoax.

- call the survivors "crisis actors."

- send death threats to the survivors and their famillies.

There's the real horror — the lack of feeling, the lack of empathy, the lack of humanity.

You cannot say to these people, "Shame on you," because they have already demonstrated they have no shame or decency.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

We will see. Pressure is on Congress to do something. The debate will be slow, as it always is in DC.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Congress will make minor concessions. The momentum this time hasn't died down and I think the NRA knows something needs to appear to happen.

The unlimited money for candidates is a cancer of US politics. Congressman know the NRA will fund primary challenges to anyone who votes for meaningful gun legislation.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Thats one piece of research, in one small aera, over 20 years ago - hardly conclusive evidence of the whole of the US justice system.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Some up to date info

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-de...-executed-1976

Race of defendants executed since 1976
BLACK 504 34.5%
LATINO 122 8.3%
WHITE 819 55.6%
OTHER 24 1.6

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/files/p...Summer2017.pdf

TOTAL NUMBER OF DEATH ROW INMATES KNOWN TO LDF: 2,817
Race of Defendant:
White 1,196 42.46%
Black 1,168 41.46%
Latino/Latina 373 13.24%
Native American 26 0.92%
Asian 53 0.04%
Unknown at this issue 1

Gender:
Male 2,764
Female 53

Baseline population of the USA 73% White, 13% Black/African-American

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Latest: Florida House Speaker Richard Corcoran, along with nearly 70 state Representatives, send letter to Florida Governor Scott, requesting he “suspend” Broward Co. Sheriff Scott Israel in wake of Parkland School Massacre, for negligence and incompetence.

https://twitter.com/PeterSchorschFL/...34532517888000

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Anyone expecting major change to the gun laws in the States is spitting in the wind. It's a Constitutional right to bear arms out there, and you won't change that in a hurry!

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Well, you could change the constitution, maybe its not all its cracked up to be ? But agree nothing will change, sometimes you just have to let them get on with it and shoot each other...

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

A scapegoat.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Wrong. if he did not do his job properly, he should be fired, he isn't immune to accountability. His force messed up big time according to all accounts and calls to deal with this Cruz teenager and they failed to act multiple times. That is not a scapegoat that is negligence and incompetence on a massive level.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

So more white people executed than black.

Some other interesting facts on that site ;

The race of the victims of those who were executed ;

So the majority of victims were white.

Indeed ;

There is nothing like facts to make things look bad one way or another ;)

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1519656896


Attachment 27314

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Its meaningless without knowing how many such calls they get overall.

If these were isolated incidents, then they clearly failed to follow up.
If they get multiple calls like this all the time, they simply could not follow up on them all.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

According to the Florida's House Speaker, in his letter he says 23 calls were made prior to the shooting on the concerns and behaviour of Nikolas Cruz, the threat he made of 'wanting to become a professional school shooter.' on social media. Cruz's own family requested his guns be confiscated after Nikolas's mother died in November 2017, the Police failed to act.

There was so many chances to prevent this shooting by authorities.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

You would need to adjust for population numbers when making these kinds of comparsions.