Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

just a thought what happens if we get another government in the future that is pro petrol and diesel engined cars .

say in a few years the uk petrol head party form a government

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Typically the charger won't come out if the car is locked.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

... and chavs won't dare go running around tugging at them any more than they smash up bus shelters... ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Some guy worked it out to 20 extra power station would be needed.

TBH buy then I'll be 71, so will be on my last car.

I will NEVER own a electric car in my current home.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Jeremy Clarkson P.M. :D

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

i was just wondering if a new government could just overturn the whole thing
you know that old devil democracy .

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

The vandals will have a field day with these gizmo's.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

No more than any other car....

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

You were never a fan of the good ol' (electric) trolleybus then Taf? Or the sexy (electric) milk float? We've dabbled for donkeys years with this stuff; time to get serious. A less poisonous legacy is the least we can do.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/07/10.jpg

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

we used to have those in cleethorpes when i was a nipper they were replaced by leyland diesel buses

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

That's because back then diesel was cheaper than electricity.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I loved the old trolleybuses, but not the huge infrastructure of overhead cabling they needed. And I drove an electric milk float for a short while (pocket money job) but didn't like the daily battery battery-acid testing and top-ups before putting it on charge for 18 hours a day.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

my milkman used one of the electric floats used to get milk about 2pm then it changed to a ford transit diesel milk on doorstep by 5am

just been to fill car up took less than 5 mins got sandwich ,bag of sugar 4 cans of beer and some dishcloths will these new lampposts have a shop attached ?.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Well there you go, the tech has moved on since the neolithic period so electric will be second nature to you :)

Of course! They'll also be fitted with ultra-modern "Fellatio" Italian-designed, vertical, drop-down beds so you can have a nap en route. :D

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Try leaving your car parked on the street every night charging your battery and see how long it is before some chav interferes with it.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

what car do you drive now ??

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

It's locked in so long as the car is locked. They could screw with it but they could do the same with your tyres now.

Fiesta

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

so when do you think you will buy your first electric car

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Dunno. Like my cars to last a long time but I've just gotten this one so the next car I get should be electric IMO. 2025ish maybe? Who knows, depends on circumstances.

---------- Post added at 15:56 ---------- Previous post was at 15:54 ----------

Maybe it might even be a Tesla: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/model3 :drool:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

i think the tesla is the only one worth looking at at the moment the others have a lot of catching up to do imo .

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Pre-Menstral? explains a lot...

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Nissan Leaf looks rubbish. I think the Ford electric engines that'll go into the next generation of Fiestas/Focuses might be good though. That's probably more likely for me than a Tesla

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Tesla for me too maybe. What about the 2019 built in Britain BMW mini?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

If there was an electric mini out already I might have gotten that on lease.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Yep. It's going to be a huge money-spinner: a clean town runabout with street cred and poke.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

i used to own a mini 850 that truck they make now is no mini .

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I know what you mean. Perhaps the leccy one will bring the old zip back?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I know but that doesn't mean they don't tug around at it and damage the car. Car tyres are a tad different from cables hanging out of cars in perfect view which is why I made the point about leaving your car battery on charge in the road outside your house. Try that and see what happens very shortly.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

They are developing electric planes, and as carbon fibre is becoming common, they will be lighter.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Another crazy decision by this horrible Government. And falling into the hands of cyclists.

When cycles abide by the law, then l will applaud them.

This ban is just about making money. Nothing else. Are they going to have electric Lorry that depend on diesel.

We have Sadiq Khan bring out out a Toxity Tax for Central London.

My sons father in law bought an electric car, and soon sold it. As it was doing a 100 mile trip, and broke down as there was no charging systems near where he was going.

This again is The Government ahead of themselves. They WILL NOT be in power when this starts anyway.

And before cyclist start saying that l am whining. Within the past few weeks, l have seen so many cyclist go through red lights, No light etc etc.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

0 to 60 in under 6 seconds :shocked: that should keep the boy racers happy.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

You are whining. Resistance is futile.

Just wait until more people realise what these cars can do.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

We've been using them for 12 months or so and having used them they seem pretty fit for purpose.

http://news.leeds.gov.uk/power-surge...goes-electric/

I heard someone mention a few weeks ago that the plan is to make electric vehicles the default going forward and anything else will require a business case.

It does make me smile when people just seem so opposed to change.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Old people are like that Dave :D

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

It's going to happen either way. The car companies are moving in that direction and the flexibility it gives to government energy policy is appealing as well. People are arguing as if this isn't already the path we're on. Maybe a government can come in and mandate we scale back plans to implement electric stations and promote petrol but it would be the same as a government coming in attempting to promote the post over e-mail. This is the path technology is taking.

The problem isn't charging stations but generating the energy. Governments need to look at that. We need more nuclear power plants, we need to look at integrating more solar energy into the network.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

You will of course be like that one day and with that can come considered thought and pangs of wisdom young chap ;) of course along with a few senior moments as well.;)

---------- Post added at 05:49 ---------- Previous post was at 05:47 ----------

Our future energy plans for the future have not exactly been great these last 40 years have they?.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

but then if i wanted an electric vehicle i would already own one . i don't and have no plans to buy one , anyway a future government might scrap the idea as an unattainable pipe dream .

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Future governments may not have a choice.

If there is a general move to electric and hybrid cars across the world, then it's very unlikely that car manufactures would continue to build full petrol or diesel cars for a single market. That's irrespective of what sort of trading relationship with have with countries.

So we can either look to move in the same direction and the government can ensure that we have the appropriate infrastructure, or we can ignore it, and wonder why we have a limited car market.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

But I won't be old before my time :rolleyes:.
Spot on. We can't resist the irresistible especially when it makes perfect sense. We should be on this course now not in 20 years time.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

hybrids i could go for [petrol/diesel and electric ] but full electric i don't see it

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

A good start papa; it shows willing. But full electric will happen and I think you'll look back at the old days of ridiculous combustion pollution and think "omg". Do it for the little smurfs :).

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Q how do you get to be so old
A by not being cheeky to your elders ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I put Den at about, hmm, 104? Sadly;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

little they're bigger than me

i think in the future if i have a mobility scooter i will take the vacuum cleaner motor out of it and fit a Harley 1200 a man needs street cred .

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

thats sad

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

The E class awaits for you then.;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Not sure your motability contract will allow that :erm:

Mercedes?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

i'll do a diddle i've learned a lot on this forum ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

PIP-a-dee doo dah
PIP-a-dee yay
My oh my
Benefits coming your way
:D

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I was thinking more along the lines of educational young man.;)

---------- Post added at 11:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

All good l hope as we like to keep people on the straight and narrow.:D

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Gettaway :nutter:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

oh yea pip... pip...pip....pip.. clear the road pappys coming through

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Don't drag me into this!:D

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

It's going to be impossible to have dedicated charge points for every address where there's no off road parking so who's going to stop cars being left fully charged at charge points by people who have nowhere else to leave their cars? There's simply not enough space to allow people the luxury of being able to charge their vehicle close to their home and then move that car to free up the charge point for anyone else to use. Even if each residence is allocated a charge point what happens with families where there's more than one car? If they can't charge their vehicles on their own land they'll have to use communal or other facilities elsewhere. Hardly practical is it.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Who knows whether in 23 years time that model of charging will still be needed?

It's quite possible that electric technology will have advanced to the point where you aren't so wedded to a charging point as today. Charging times are already getting shorter and ranges longer.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

There is no way I would buy an electric car as things stand. Charging takes too long and even from fully charged you do not get much mileage before you need to do it all again.

As Ben says, technology will change things by 2040, and with luck there will be other alternatives by then, such as hydrogen cars, which expel only water vapour.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Dedicated charging zones manned 24/7 will be set up (inc at the sites of then disused petrol stations). You will pay for overstaying and, if necessary, penalised by withdrawal of access to a charging facility until you learn to comply with the rules. Your vehicle will be coded to facilitate ease of these controls. In a paradox, persistent offenders will be electrocuted :D

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

we might be running cars on lcr that's liquide cyclist remains if i'm in charge

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Surely we need to go full electric rather than hybrid which have 2 power supplies, two engines. All this adds to the weight, bulk, complexity and price. It is up to the clever people to continue to develop batteries which are more powerful, charge more quickly and are cheaper. Perhaps the oil producing countries are paying the experts NOT to invent better batteries.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I was looking on the Renault site and saw their electric car, the "Zoe".

Range, about 150 miles on a full charge - a full charge takes about 7 hours.

You have to rent the battery for about £70 a month.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

so you have to have a fuel consumption of £ 70 before you start saving money due to battery rental

the range is pants

and it takes a day to charge up [ how much does that cost ]

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Well its a 7KW charger, so I guess 49KWH.

Which is about £6.50, or about £4 if you have Economy 7 overnight.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Absolutely dreadful. More trouble than it's worth.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Problem with your plan is currently it takes about a five minutes to fill up a car, pay and go, even if we get the charging time down to an hour how many cars are these garages going to process compared to now and of course the drivers will have to stay with the cars and wait and wait and wait, it'll be a complete free for all to get to the charging station and wait and wait. Also there is a pretty horrific environmental cost to making and disposing of these batteries, it'd be interesting to compare the two and see the figures. I do like electorocuting persistent offenders though, that's a sensible policy although just to make the punishment as inhumane as possible they should be electrocuted with their own cars enormous battery.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

7kw that's about 30 amps i'll have to rewire the house to charge it

it's pretty clear the easy part of this change was saying we are banning petrol and diesel

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Perhaps the answer to refuelling problem relating to electric cars is to change the battery that's running out for a charged one at the garage.

The garage would then re-charge the depleted battery and then it's ready for the next customer.

I can't see how else it is practical to manage the situation if you drive 60 odd miles a day as I used to do in my last job.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

a battery for a tesla weighs in at 648 lbs and i think their built into the floor that's about the weight of a chevy v8 engine

Battery Specs
Type Laminated lithium-ion battery
Voltage 403.2V [1]
Nominal voltage 360V [2]
Total capacity 24 kWh [2] (16 kWh available, 67% DoD [3], 21 kWh declared [4])
Power output Over 90 kW
Energy density 140 Wh/kg [5]
Power density 2.5 kW/kg [5]
Dimensions 61.8 x 46.8 x 10.4 in. (1570.5 x 1188 x 264.9 mm) [1]
Weight 648 lbs [6]
Number of modules 48, each with four cells (total 192 cells) [7][2]
Battery pack contents:
Positive electrodes: lithium manganate
Negative electrodes: carbon
Cells
Modules
Assembly parts
Charging times:
Quick charger DC50kW (0 to 80%): approx. 30 min (Level 3 charging)
Home-use AC240V charging dock (0-100%): 8 hrs (Level 2 charging) [8]
Regular 110/120V 15-amp outlet: 22 hours (Level 1 charging) [9]
Battery layout Under seat & floor

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I am sure that battery sizes can be reduced by 2040, and if they are still too heavy, someone would have to invent a contraption for garages to use when replacing batteries.

If there are no straight forward ways to replace batteries, someone is going to have to come up with an alternative solution that is practical. The only one I have at the moment is hydrogen fuelled cars. Although expensive at present, the price will come down with mass production and competition.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

A huge percentage will be topping up their fuel at home (which they can't do at the moment); or perhaps at a hotel or whatever. There's a pretty horrific environmental cost to extracting oil, refining, transporting and, of course, using.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

a fork lift truck ? battery powered of course ;)

---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------

jerry can :rolleyes:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

The challenges aren't insurmountable and we'll be there long before 2040 imo. Another plus again imo is to tell those rather unpleasant sand dwelling types with a penchant for decapitation and suppressing women to shove it

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

There's a pretty horrific environmental cost to extracting lithium , refining, transporting and, of course, using.

Elemental lithium is flammable and very reactive. In nature, lithium occurs in compounded forms such as lithium carbonate requiring chemical processing to be made usable.
Lithium is typically found in salt flats in areas where water is scarce. The mining process of lithium uses large amounts of water. Therefore, on top of water contamination as a result of its use, depletion or transportation costs are issues to be dealt with. Depletion results in less available water for local populations, flora and fauna.
Toxic chemicals are used for leaching purposes, chemicals requiring waste treatment. There are widespread concerns of improper handling and spills, like in other mining operations around the world.
The recovery rate of lithium ion batteries, even in first world countries, is in the single digit percent range. Most batteries end up in landfill.
In a 2013 report, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) points out that nickel and cobalt, both also used in the production of lithium ion batteries, represent significant additional environmental risks.

A 2012 study titled “Science for Environment Policy” published by the European Union compares lithium ion batteries to other types of batteries available (lead-acid, nickel-cadmium, nickel-metal-hydride and sodium sulphur). It concludes that lithium ion batteries have the largest impact on metal depletion, suggesting that recycling is complicated. Lithium ion batteries are also, together with nickel-metal-hydride batteries, the most energy consuming technologies using the equivalent of 1.6kg of oil per kg of battery produced. They also ranked the worst in greenhouse gas emissions with up to 12.5kg of CO2 equivalent emitted per kg of battery. The authors do point out that “…for a full understanding of life cycle impacts, further aspects of battery use need to be considered, such as length of usage, performance at different temperatures, and ability to discharge quickly.”

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Most depots I've visited dropped battery power for gas power for all their forklifts years ago.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

That certainly makes more sense to me.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

There is no way this will change in my lifetime.

If you think, my wife has a battered old Diesel car. I have a petrol car - and no we are not rich either.

My daughter has a diesel, my son has a petrol car.

If we got rid of all the cars - and Lorries due to the crazy government going over to electric vehicles.

Can you see how many people would be unemployed. Millions.

To get electric vehicles - how is the government going to get all those taxs.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

There are zero charging stations in my town, the nearest one is (15 miles) 30 minute drive away and if you park in the service station for 1 minute over 2 hours you get a £100 fine.

So much for telling drivers if your tired take a break.

Plus it can take 25 mins to get in the dam place and over 30 mins to get out.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Until there is a breakthrough in battery technology the electric car will stay a minority thing and all this "by 2040" stuff reminds me of old tech shows that were convinced we would all be flying around in our cars by the millennium. Electric is the future but not without a breakthrough in the production of it and the practical storage of it the pace will continue to be slow. Nuclear can barely cover the gap in our current energy plans let alone adding tens of millions of car user's putting their cars on charge and as overnight would be the preference you can bet the power company's will bin the traditional low tariff's during the night.

Despite being supposed first world countries we really haven't done very well adapting to advancing technology and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

You posted without a link sadly because sadly the many years old article you cut and sadly pasted went on to say "Technology will of course improve, lithium supplies will be sufficient for the foreseeable future, and recycling rates will climb".:nono:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Pigs might fly springs to mind.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

but sadly they have not

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Technology progresses.

Today, you can do more on a smartphone than you could on a laptop 20 years ago (and it has a longer battery life), and it's a fraction of the size.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

but don't you miss the old petrol laptop

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

No, as lugging one around caused me to need shoulder (rotator cuff) surgery.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

It's interesting how the motor industry is going. Outright ownership today seems to have become unpopular with young people and the days when people pay for electric cars and bikes like mobile phones and Netflix aren't far away. Here's one take on it looking at it through the lens of self-driving vehicles be they cars or buses: https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/insights...iption-service

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Many older people do it this way as well ;) Ive leased my cars for the last 15 years.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Yep.

I've leased my wife for the the last 31 years - initial deposit (the wedding), recurring monthly payments that went up every year, and apparently she's made arrangements for a final balloon payment from me before I'm traded in for a newer model... :D

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I predict the following

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

FUELLED UP Three in four oppose Government’s ban on sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2040
As little as four per cent of Brits plan to make their next car an electric vehicle


LIVID motorists turned on “tax grabbing” Michael Gove last night – as over 75 per cent opposed his 2040 car ban plan.

Nearly eight in ten Brits disagreed with the Environment Secretary’s move to outlaw sales of new petrol and diesel motors in 23 years’ time.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/413340...ars-from-2040/

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

l don't often agree with what most of the public often say but on this l concur wholeheartedly.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

There is nothing yet to compare to petrol/diesel really? Some folk can use electric but many(most?) it would not be practical.

That said having a date for some phase out may focus minds on getting a working alternative. There is probably some little lab somewhere that has some great ideas but no-one is really interested (yet). There have been conspiracies for ages that alternatives have been "silenced" by the big oil concerns maybe bought out so that when fossil fuels are run down they can control the alternatives and keep making more profit in the newer, cleaner era of motoring.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I wonder if these would have been the sort of people that claimed the air would be sucked out of your lungs once a train went over (was it) 20 mph?? or demanded someone walk in front of a car carrying a red flag??


Cheers

Dave

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

they need a donor card if they walk in front of a car these days ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Yum :tu:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

:erm:

(about £29,000)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Let's face it, this all all subservience to EU Green ideas and plans, that only have to be ideas and plans to placate those demanding them.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Also because the future is moving that way anyway so we might as well prepare for it.

As for 'green ideas or plans' even if you don't 'believe' in global warming we all agree pollution is bad don't we?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

it's good for business just think of the money spent on various products for cleaning the air ,and then think if the air was clean where would income come from all those people in all those industries out of work losing their home the kids starving living in cardboard boxes ,but hey Elon musk will be supping up the gravy .

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

These Westminster elite twits me mad. Try buying a decent sized MPV which isn't diesel. There are very few around. Oh and try telling your autistic child that they've got to hang around for hours waiting for batteries to charge when they want to go somewhere.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

23 years is a long, long time away. Electric cars may be obsolete by then!
Four per cent seems a reasonable estimate now but in ten years' time I think it will be far, far higher as ownership barriers reduce. Certainly, operating costs are lower for electric vehicles but it's the high initial cost, lack of range and charging that probably put most people off at the moment.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Says who ?

You might want to look back a few posts at the cost examples.