Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35918989)

Hence my question to MM, Den.

Look, at the moment, I could put on ITV on Saturday and get a choice of The Family Chase, The X Factor, Jonathan Ross, News, American Pie.

If I set my preferences to news, dramas and chat shows, my selection might become Liar, Victoria, Jonathan Ross, News, Lethal Weapon. It's still ITV, and all the programmes are extracted from the same week, but the shows are now to my liking.

Conversely, a person who likes talent contests, reality documentaries and soaps might have the choice of The Family Chase, The X-Factor, Coronation Street, Tipping Point, Call the Cleaners, Britain's Claim Culture: Tonight and An Hour to Catch a Killer with Trevor McDonald.

Call it a gimmick if you like, but this actually makes linear viewing far more acceptable and tailored to the needs of the individual or family.

What's not to like?

Originally Posted by theone2k10 (Post 35918995)

I quite like this idea tbh.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35919001)

Yes, this could save linear tv, in my view.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35919002)

Still peddling the old propaganda l see..;)

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35919001)

Yes, this could save linear tv, in my view.

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 35919017)

It could save streaming in my view. At last people don't have to make a choice what to watch.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35919028)

I'm positive that streaming is taking over, SP. I know that some people tend to be passive in front of the tv, but a growing number are learning and expecting to take control.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35921665)

In your world perhaps but top sport on linear TV will always be king..

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35921680)

Good to see OB giving this thread it's weekly bump.:D

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35921680)

Good to see OB giving this thread it's weekly bump.:D

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35921716)

Am I missing something?

Is there any live sport being streamed at present?

If there is how do I find out where and how to get it?

Also, very importantly (for me - as I work and have a life outside tv) can I record these streamed events to view later?

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35921665)

In your world perhaps but top sport on linear TV will always be king..

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35921767)

...And yet concerns about Amazon entering the fray continue to rise. Mark my words, Den, Amazon will make their presence known either this time around or next.

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...line-coverage/

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35921767)

...And yet concerns about Amazon entering the fray continue to rise. Mark my words, Den, Amazon will make their presence known either this time around or next.

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...line-coverage/

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35921767)

...And yet concerns about Amazon entering the fray continue to rise. Mark my words, Den, Amazon will make their presence known either this time around or next.

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...line-coverage/

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35922216)

An interesting perspective on the potential for Amazon to bid for the Premiership rights here.

https://www.ibc.org/delivery/analysi...-/2434.article

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35922217)

As the saying goes you can't teach an old dog new tricks.;)

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35922236)

It's interesting that Old Boy regards Sky as a monopoly but actively promotes the likes of Amazon :D

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35922236)

It's interesting that Old Boy regards Sky as a monopoly but actively promotes the likes of Amazon :D

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35922224)

Damn! That must be why you are refusing to accept that change is inevitable! :D

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35922279)

Amazon isn't a monopoly, actually, and it is extremely good at what it does, which explains why they have been so successful.

Incidentally, I have not been promoting Amazon, I've been drawing attention to their interest in bidding for the Premier League.

Originally Posted by theone2k10 (Post 35922331)

Shame Amazon treat their staff like crap.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35922332)

Well, that may be so, but customers are getting a good deal from Amazon.

Hopefully, they will be listening to criticism of its employment policies.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35922332)

Well, that may be so, but customers are getting a good deal from Amazon.


Hopefully, they will be listening to criticism of its employment policies.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35922347)

Well that depends on ones thinking as some think they offer good value and others think they are a rip off.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35922362)

Why a rip off, Den? They often have the cheapest prices around.

If Amazon is a rip off, I cannot think what you'd say about John Lewis and M&S!

Originally Posted by theone2k10 (Post 35922369)

They certainly are not the cheapest around example 1 cities skylines on ps4 Amazon price (with prime add £1.99 for none prime) £34.99, Argos price £24.99 quite a big difference.
Example number 2 rise of the tomb raider ps4 Amazon price £37.99, HMV price £29.99 Argos price £19.99 the list goes on.
Also worth noting the Argos and HMV prices were not special offers either.
Amazons live tv is a rip off too if you wanted everything you'd be better of sticking with VM or Sky and this is coming from a cord cutter.
Quite often i find what i want much cheaper elsewhere than Amazoin and no i'm not pirating the items OB lol.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35922332)

Well, that may be so, but customers are getting a good deal from Amazon.

Hopefully, they will be listening to criticism of its employment policies.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35922332)

Hopefully, they will be listening to criticism of its employment policies.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35918989)

Hence my question to MM, Den.

Look, at the moment, I could put on ITV on Saturday and get a choice of The Family Chase, The X Factor, Jonathan Ross, News, American Pie.

If I set my preferences to news, dramas and chat shows, my selection might become Liar, Victoria, Jonathan Ross, News, Lethal Weapon. It's still ITV, and all the programmes are extracted from the same week, but the shows are now to my liking.

Conversely, a person who likes talent contests, reality documentaries and soaps might have the choice of The Family Chase, The X-Factor, Coronation Street, Tipping Point, Call the Cleaners, Britain's Claim Culture: Tonight and An Hour to Catch a Killer with Trevor McDonald.

Call it a gimmick if you like, but this actually makes linear viewing far more acceptable and tailored to the needs of the individual or family.

What's not to like?

Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35922654)

Linear channels cannot track your personal information even if the owners wanted to.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35922648)

Oh dear so saving a few pence means more to you than hard working people being in a job what pays them a liveable wage.:doh:

Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35922654)

They may well listen, but I suspect they won't change a thing until either their profits are affected or the government intervenes.

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------



I can see two ways this will work. If they don't ask you to register, they will simply track what their viewers are watching en mass and use this to schedule the shows. This is not new, and is actually what Channel 4 do in this country with More 4.

If they do require you to register, then yes, they open up the possibility of an individually scheduled channel, but they could (and probably will) harvest all sorts of other information about you, which they could then sell on. That info, at the very least, will be used to advertise stuff to you and could be used for other stuff. Stuff that doesn't benefit you. Imagine a situation where you (for whatever reason) buy a lot of junk food at your local supermarket. You have a loyalty card, and are using it to save up points. By using that loyalty card, you are giving the supermarket permission to track what you are buying. You may also be giving them the right to sell that information. Perhaps to an insurance company you are looking to buy life insurance from. All of a sudden, your premiums go up because you buy a lot of junk food (even though it may not actually be for you). Now, add in data from streaming services (which, even if they don't already sell the info, you can bet the terms of conditions of service give them the freedom to sell it). Now, I doubt that you watching dodgy 80s action movies on Netflix is going to massively impact your life, but the technology exists, should some company decide to, to merge all this info into a nice, handy, profile which companies trying to sell you services (such as life insurance or loans/mortgages) can use to determine your lifestyle. Even if the use of such info is illegal, companies will actively lobby governments to get the law changed.

Linear channels cannot track your personal information even if the owners wanted to.

Originally Posted by buckeye (Post 35922671)

VM, BT and Talk Talk all have an upstream from their TV boxes and can track what every customer is watching.
I suspect that as a broadband connection is required for Sky's on demand service they do the same.

I have anecdotal evidence that VM do track their customers usage,
when I recently renegotiated my contract the agent tried to upsell me a V6 box and higher TV package, I explained I hardly ever use my Tivo and don't need a different box or package, within a few seconds he replied "oh no you don't do you".

Its not beyond a stretch of the imagination to think that carriage agreements with linear suppliers would include the sharing of what is being watched on their channels, but I don't think the law would allow the sharing of who is watching those channels.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35923046)

You don't seem to like the BBC do you OB?.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35923051)

To be honest, I do like a proportion of their output, but I don't like the way it is managed, nor do I like their sense of entitlement.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35923069)

Who says that the BBC feel a sense of entitlement OB?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35923015)

Oh here we go - Netflix is a threat to the BBC!

Next, Hall will be calling for restrictions to be imposed against the company, or some sort of broadcasting tax!

Why can't these monopoly organisations actually try to compete instead of trying to kill off their competitors?


http://advanced-television.com/2017/...en-british-tv/

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35923015)

Oh here we go - Netflix is a threat to the BBC!

Next, Hall will be calling for restrictions to be imposed against the company, or some sort of broadcasting tax!

Why can't these monopoly organisations actually try to compete instead of trying to kill off their competitors?


http://advanced-television.com/2017/...en-british-tv/

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35923676)

Sky's response
https://www.skygroup.sky/corporate/m...etting-started

Originally Posted by theone2k10 (Post 35923700)

...also Capita are medical proffesionals too apparantly.

Originally Posted by jj20x (Post 35923742)

Some might say professionals, others would, maybe, prefer to say cowboys. It's all a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35925748)

According to Phenix, there is a growing reluctance by viewers to sign up to streaming services for live sporting events due to latency issues.

Given that streaming is being seen as the way for the future, this will have to be resolved without delay.

Does anyone get this with the Virgin Media V6? I used to get awful problems with the BBC i-Player on my old Tivo, with freezing, stuttering, etc, but no problems at all with the V6s.

I'd like to think that with decent equipment, sufficient Mbs, and decent signal distribution within the home, we would not suffer from these problems.

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...ive-streaming/

And yet the way to watch the Olympics this year if you want full coverage, will be through the Eurosport Player.


https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2017...osport-player/

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35925748)

According to Phenix, there is a growing reluctance by viewers to sign up to streaming services for live sporting events due to latency issues.

Given that streaming is being seen as the way for the future, this will have to be resolved without delay.

Does anyone get this with the Virgin Media V6? I used to get awful problems with the BBC i-Player on my old Tivo, with freezing, stuttering, etc, but no problems at all with the V6s.

I'd like to think that with decent equipment, sufficient Mbs, and decent signal distribution within the home, we would not suffer from these problems.

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...ive-streaming/

And yet the way to watch the Olympics this year if you want full coverage, will be through the Eurosport Player.


https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2017...osport-player/

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35925748)

According to Phenix, there is a growing reluctance by viewers to sign up to streaming services for live sporting events due to latency issues.

Given that streaming is being seen as the way for the future, this will have to be resolved without delay.

Does anyone get this with the Virgin Media V6? I used to get awful problems with the BBC i-Player on my old Tivo, with freezing, stuttering, etc, but no problems at all with the V6s.

I'd like to think that with decent equipment, sufficient Mbs, and decent signal distribution within the home, we would not suffer from these problems.

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...ive-streaming/

And yet the way to watch the Olympics this year if you want full coverage, will be through the Eurosport Player.


https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2017...osport-player/

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35925772)

So streaming is the way forward, judging by the quoted report - sports fans expect to get buffering and other problems while watching live streaming!

I don't know about anyone else, but I am not prepared to pay a subscription and get a sub-standard service.

Give me a standard channel broadcast any day.

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35925772)

So streaming is the way forward, judging by the quoted report - sports fans expect to get buffering and other problems while watching live streaming!

I don't know about anyone else, but I am not prepared to pay a subscription and get a sub-standard service.

Give me a standard channel broadcast any day.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35925790)

Just another reason and there are many as to why streaming sports will always be the little brother to the big brother which is Linear TV sport.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35925796)

You would certainly be right if improvements were not made, Den. As I mentioned before, VM viewers with the right kit should not experience such problems (fingers crossed!) provided that the stream itself was robust.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35925796)

You would certainly be right if improvements were not made, Den. As I mentioned before, VM viewers with the right kit should not experience such problems (fingers crossed!) provided that the stream itself was robust.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35925810)

However a reasonable number of Sky customers (and prospective customers) might not have enough bandwidth - Sky quoted me at around 7Mb/s.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35925810)

However a reasonable number of Sky customers (and prospective customers) might not have enough bandwidth - Sky quoted me at around 7Mb/s.

Originally Posted by Joedm45 (Post 35925816)

I had the same thoughts, there are too many people that get poor speeds. Unless this is addressed, it will be difficult for streaming to get enough take up to justify the expense of these sports rights.

As most on here are on VM then it won't be an issue but there are plenty out there not so lucky with speeds

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35925814)

Christ! Is that even enough for UHD?

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35925810)

However a reasonable number of Sky customers (and prospective customers) might not have enough bandwidth - Sky quoted me at around 7Mb/s.

Originally Posted by Joedm45 (Post 35925816)

I had the same thoughts, there are too many people that get poor speeds. Unless this is addressed, it will be difficult for streaming to get enough take up to justify the expense of these sports rights.

As most on here are on VM then it won't be an issue but there are plenty out there not so lucky with speeds

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35925829)

Netflix UHD requires around 15-16 mb however they recommend your connection is around 25 mb for a smooth experience.

As Sport is fast moving it requires considerably more , I believe BT require you have at least a 40mb connection for its BT Sport UHD service.

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:34 ----------


I'm presuming your area has no access to FTTC ?

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35925956)

For me the slight delay would be no problem.

My issues would be

1) additional cost
2) smooth service as offered by std to channels
3) huge amount of my broadband usage
4) inability to record to watch at a later date (rarely in when matches are on)

Originally Posted by theone2k10 (Post 35925964)

1) additional cost - actually works out cheaper than a vm or sky sub (including the fact most vm/sky customers now have BB)
2) smooth service as offered by std to channels - judder and buffering are things of the past i run 1080p streams perfectly on a 38mbs connection so even vms lowest 50mbs should handle it with ease
3) huge amount of my broadband usage - not a issue as most are unlimited
4) inability to record to watch at a later date (rarely in when matches are on) - you can record streams on pcs you will need software to do this thouigh, i believe some boxes may offer this too.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35925971)

I would add that there is nothing to stop providers from permitting their subscribers to access past matches through video on demand.

The BBC i-Player currently does both, but all too many programmes disappear after 4 weeks.

Originally Posted by theone2k10 (Post 35925964)

1) additional cost - actually works out cheaper than a vm or sky sub (including the fact most vm/sky customers now have BB)
2) smooth service as offered by std to channels - judder and buffering are things of the past i run 1080p streams perfectly on a 38mbs connection so even vms lowest 50mbs should handle it with ease
3) huge amount of my broadband usage - not a issue as most are unlimited
4) inability to record to watch at a later date (rarely in when matches are on) - you can record streams on pcs you will need software to do this thouigh, i believe some boxes may offer this too.

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35926096)

Only works out cheaper if you bin one or both of sky and BT - otherwise must be an additional cost (unless it is free)

As for recording streams on a PC, if I wanted to watch on a PC sized screen I wouldn't have bought my 48" flat screen

Another question - are these streams in a minimum of HD quality?

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35926096)

Only works out cheaper if you bin one or both of sky and BT - otherwise must be an additional cost (unless it is free)

As for recording streams on a PC, if I wanted to watch on a PC sized screen I wouldn't have bought my 48" flat screen

Another question - are these streams in a minimum of HD quality?

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35926096)

Only works out cheaper if you bin one or both of sky and BT - otherwise must be an additional cost (unless it is free)

As for recording streams on a PC, if I wanted to watch on a PC sized screen I wouldn't have bought my 48" flat screen

Another question - are these streams in a minimum of HD quality?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35926131)

Yes, but you could ditch Sky or BT if Amazon or one of the other streaming services took over the contract.

If you wanted to retain Sky Sports in the event they lost the contract (ie because there were also other sports you wanted to see as well), Sky would be charging a lot less given the absence of the premiership games.

Originally Posted by buckeye (Post 35926205)

The additional cost is a broadband connection. I have binned all traditional pay TV yet still get Sky Sports and BT Sports (as well as others) for a lot less than you would pay for a traditional pay TV service.

You are a tad out of touch, most PC's can be connected to any TV which has a HDMI port and for streaming and video playback duties can be bought pretty cheaply.

I have yet to find any paid for streaming service that doesn't offer a minimum of 720P HD, when it comes to free services apart from BBC Iplayer the other PSB's are severely lacking in the image quality stakes on their online catchup services.

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35926256)

Will they? I seriously doubt it. They have lost a lot of rights over the past few years - their subscription cost has never gone down.

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------



Not out of touch at all, yes my PC could connect to the TV - however as they are nowhere near each other that is a non-starter.

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35926256)

Will they? I seriously doubt it. They have lost a lot of rights over the past few years - their subscription cost has never gone down.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35926338)

True, but the Premiership rights are the reason Sky charge so much. That is the biggie.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35926343)

And it will remain their biggie...

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35926358)

Same old, same old...! ;)

Originally Posted by theone2k10 (Post 35926272)

Yet i told you how to still stream to your tv without needing to connect your pc if you could be bothered to read my response to your query.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35926360)

Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon and the truth.;)

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35926370)

Actually you didn't.

You said most PCs could connect to TVs with hdmi port- but not how, in the absence of any detail I assumed you meant by hdmi cable

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 35926391)

Den, are you in denial? Is your best friend Dave?............:D

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35926405)

l only speak thy truth as you know from the heart MM.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35926405)

l only speak thy truth as you know from the heart MM.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35926455)

The truth as you perceive it, Den, with your 'au contraire' filters on!

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35926457)

Better to have the truth and nothing but the truth rather then a distorted truth which some take at face value on a regular basis OB.;)

Originally Posted by theone2k10 (Post 35926470)

At least he provides links.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35926474)

Yes, or alternatively, the reason behind my views. I sometimes think that Den has forgotten why he holds some of these views!

Originally Posted by theone2k10 (Post 35926107)

Streaming has come a long way over the last 2 or 3 years and will continue to improve greatly, even 8k streaming is now being tested in Japan although we tend to be quite behind Japan tech wise.

Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35926567)

I dunno, the BBC were testing 8K back in 2012.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/researcha...hi-visio.shtml

I am partly joking, I realise that the technology was likely to be Japanese.

Streaming has come a long way though. HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding), or x265 is a major leap over x264 in terms of efficiency.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35926573)

There is still a large number of households unable to get the kind of speeds necessary for UHD. Alas, this may be why the content providers have not been very quick off the mark.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35926474)

Yes, or alternatively, the reason behind my views. I sometimes think that Den has forgotten why he holds some of these views!

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35926591)

You can believe what you want OB as you generally do but don't think that others think the same without clear substantive evidence.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35926596)

We never get to hear what your evidence is, though, Den, and that's the problem.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35926598)

l posted a clear link not that long ago but alas as usual you chose to ignore its clear evidence about the future UK football rights market..