Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Here's one question that can be answered now, how much of the 10 million recently spent on the building, if any was taken by the management company as profit

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

We're all rational and level headed here though. I doubt many of them would be researching such things for themselves. They should though. It's far harder to shut down decently prepared facts than it is to shut down your average protester.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I doubt the town hall can answer that, nor could anyone else I would think without trawling through lots of accounting. Even the figure 10 million varies from story to story.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

If they want real justice and answers then they have to wait for the process to happen and the facts to be ascertained, including the evidence to support or rule out legal action. There is all sorts of nonsense being bandied around now and some of our 'politicians' would do well to stop stirring matters up before another tragedy unfolds. Surely our emergency services have quite enough on their hands right now without having to deal with more trouble on the streets.

I've already heard people demanding prosecutions, jail terms, retribution etc. when at this stage we have no idea whether anything illegal or even negligent has happened.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yeah this is a city that was in uproar when police shot a known bellend. Wouldn't expect them to remain calm when they genuinely have something to be angry about.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Its going to be a fair while before any proper answers can be given as we know.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

In an absolutely monumental shock move... A wild Lily Allen has appeared :rolleyes:

Again. I hear the questions, we see the questions, we all do. As already stated I just don't see how they expect this to be achieved of their timescale of 'now'

It can't so prepare for a witch hunt.

As earlier though I'm struggling to comprehend the idea of those few that thought the best place for anti-tory and pro Corbyn propaganda was at a protest following the events of a tragedy.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The protesting obviously won't help but you're essentially asking people to trust the system and processes that have so obviously failed them badly. They repeatedly asked for help from the authorities only to rebuffed time and time again and when what they so feared occurred and took so many lives they're now being told by the same people to wait until they've finished investigating.

It's not surprising they're not satisfied with that. Especially when emotions are running so raw. I can't imagine what it must feel like to be them right now so I wouldn't rush to judgement.

It's much easier to understand the importance of a calm and detailed investigation if you're detached from the event.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

A 22m building would still have been destroyed in this manner. 6/7/8 floors would still be affected. The restriction was not connected to any flammability or otherwise. If it was, it would've been banned for all buildings.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

A TV report has shown that the socio-political agitators have set up shop.... there will be violence soon. But against whom?

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

The biggest problem we had with fire safety in our 11th floor flat was lack of water pressure for the fire brigade to use. The water main to the building (and fire hydrants) was found to be restricted so not more than a single hose could be run through the pumps.

The dry riser was condemned due to multiple leaks, and was replaced by a single small bore hosereel on every landing. But when the hoses were replaced, they were too short to reach the doorways of the furthest rooms. And the hoses were fed from a pressurised tank on the ground floor, the electricity supply to it constantly tripped, and would be off as soon as the building fire switch was operated.

An idea to change the water tank to an unpressurised one on the roof fed from a ground floor pump was passed from office to office until the idea faded away.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

:tu:

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Perhaps the Corbynista protesters should ask themselves how many Labour run councils have installed this same cladding on their tower blocks? :scratch:

IMHO this is a systemic failure, not a political one.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes, that'd be interesting wouldn't it. I wonder how many have insisted that sprinklers be fitted too? The rules don't insist on it but if there's been so much concern and it's only the Tories who haven't been listening to that then I'm sure Labour run councils will have acted to make these death trap buildings safe. If it's truly a question of only Labour cares about social housing and the Conservatives don't there'll be the evidence to back that up and I'm sure Corbyn will be quick to tell us how his party have been doing it so much better.

Sadly, this is another example of the sort of tragedy which happens from time to time highlighting shortcomings in procedures, regulations etc. and sometimes what amounts to criminal negligence. The inquiry into this will answer those questions. To try to turn this into a rich v. poor argument is pathetic but it's typical lefty tactics that we've seen all too often before.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Spot on. There was protesters yesterday in London, not even connected with the tower fire, yet they tagged along with the rest of the tower residents, using their tragedy to further their disagreement with the election results.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yup. Those of us who weren't born yesterday and don't rely on rose tinted social media for our diet of news will know that perfectly well. It's a shame that more people don't wake up to who these people are and what they represent.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I've seen a report that suggests that a lot of the residents were asylum seekers. We keep being told that these people don't get preferential treatment over UK born people.

So how is it that London born people are being forced out of London?

I have sympathy for everyone involved, but am miffed that asylum seekers have been housed, may be put into quality hotels at our expense and have been promised another home in London.

Meanwhile, throughout all this, London born residents are sleeping rough or have been forced out of London altogether...

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

That is a debate for another thread as its certainly not suitable for this thread IMO.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I'm shocked that rent can be up to around £2000 a month in those towers, and they class that the poor area? How anyone can afford that I'll never know.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

HOUSING BENEFIT. :dunce:

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Obliviously, but the benefit cap for London is £23,000.

At least 58 are now presumed dead. :(

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Good heavens. Still, with the price of rents these days (especially in London), I imagine that even this is cheaper than the private sector.

Asylum seekers can't claim Housing Benefit and aren't subject to any cap, as their accommodation costs are met by this department:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nati...upport_Service

It's ironic that some may have escaped harm from their own countries, only to have been injured or killed in this tower block!

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

A K&C resident's perspective of his council's policies:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/06/19.jpg

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Most construction companies work on 3-5% profit of contract value. So they would have expected to make around 0.5m on the total job.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Just goes to show how awful some people in this country have become to highjack a tradegy like this to try and score political points when the only thing any decent person should be doing is grieving for the victims and doing what they can large or small for the survivors. I don't blame the residents for their behaviour at the minute they are in the rawest emotional state anyone can be but those exploiting them deserve a damn good kicking for their behaviour.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

How right you are but it will always happen.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

No it happens because we let it and because we don't stand up and expose those who do it and make it clear we want and expect better mainly because it's easier then doing something. If corbyn wants to impress me he will denounce his supporters involved in this and demand an immediate stop but he won't because he's upto his neck in this and so far has managed to con enough people he's somehow better.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...MCNEWEML6619I2

Hmmm!Is this too political?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It's a political failure. Obviously people should be helping the survivors but at the same time politicians and the media need to be asking serious questions into how this happened, if the residents complaints to the local council were ignored and so on. This is a scandal, it cannot be dismissed as just an unfortunate event that couldn't have been avoided.

This is social housing provided by the state. They provided relatively poor people housing built covered in flammable material with, it seems, inadequate fire safety systems. How is that not a political issue?

And to want to stand up to the people asking those questions?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

:tu:

And if those questions shouldn't be asked now when is it not political to ask these questions? When is the right time?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Way to misrepresent what i was saying i never once said there are no questions to be asked or investigations to be done i personally believe there is criminal culpability in this. I think the council has a lot to answer for as does the company that performed the refurbishment but that takes time and isn't something that can deliver immediate answers. The exploitation of the victims here is whats sickening the way a certain group has jumped in here to do nothing but make this political is disgusting and furthers nothing for the victims.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

:tu:

If this investigation is rushed the first people to complain about the results will be the families. Due process has to be observed here, as painful as that is.

If negligence or criminality is proved then I don't know anyone who won't be wanting the book thrown at those responsible for it.

When it comes to the local council, let's not forget they have never dealt with a disaster on this scale before and attacking the civic centre isn't going to solve anything. Conflating chaos with deliberately uncaring and callous behaviour is totally unfair.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Well I think getting the questions out in the open NOW will make sure that when it is apparently the right time(whenever that's supposed to be) those questions may actually get some sort of answers.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The problem is that questions are being randomly being spewed with an agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with the problem.

Eg
The building had just been renovated. How is that neglect?

No matter how the fire spread outside the building, it still spread too easily from inside to outside, and then back inside again. If it had remained outside then maybe more people would have survived. A potential weak link in fire resistance may be the exterior walls. It could have allowed the fire to get back inside more easily.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Well it could appear they went with the cheapest form of cladding which was flammable and also that they ignored the residents pleas for the fire risk the building posed even without that cladding.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

The council seems to have been removed from the management of the crisis but the real issue here isn't their poor response but that they were in charge of this building ultimately and they have had repeated complaints about the safety of the building.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Trouble is right now we don't know if the company that refurbished this tower actually stuck to the specs they submitted or changed them for cheaper materials once they got the contract not exactly unheard of and the answer to just that question could take weeks to answer. The council and it's record will now come under scrutiny and heads will hopefully roll given the quality of the council where i live it isn't a big stretch that they were little more then a council tax collection point with no interest in the rest of their duties and responsibilities.

There are many questions that have to be answered about all of this but they need to be asked by qualified people with the knowledge to understand what's happened here and the ability to lay blame where it truly belongs. No situation like this should be highjacked by **** political oppurtunistic sleaze and victims shouldn't be used in that way and that's what has happened here we even get a lily allen visit. These type of incidents used to bring out the best in everyone and while it has in a good number of people who have been fantastic in the help they have offered we now have whole groups who look at things like this as a means to further their agenda.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It's used up and down the country, not just in this instance. If it's that bad, why isn't it completely banned or simply not made in the first place.

The cheapest option was to have no cladding at all. It wasn't replacing anything, it was an additional feature.

The fire still got outside from inside a flat and then back into the building. Should that have happened that quickly?

Some of the complaints were from before the renovations.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Well yes, Why wasn't it? One of many questions.

Again, needlessly added whilst residents were complaining about actual issues with the building.

No it shouldn't. There seems to be an acceptance that the cladding is what caused it to spread so fast.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

SPECULATION, SPECULATION.........AND A BIT MORE SPECULATION

We don't, nobody doesn't know anything yet.

" it appears". " it might", "it looks like" , ....................


This will drag on for months, if not years, until the investigation is complete.

But until the investigations are complete it's all opinion, nothing more.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

Needlessly? In your expert opinion. It was part of refurb to improve the quality of the accommodation and the aesthetic of o very drab 60's/70's tower block.

When you decorate your house/ flat, is it needlessly?

When I spend money to improve the aesthetic of my house it is isn't money spent needlessly.

Sorry no.

The fire spread internally just as quick. There was a complete failure to compartmentalise the fire.

Each flat, stairwell, dry riser, should be a fire compartment designed to contain the fire for a period of time.

Even if the fire burned away on the outside, it should not of ingressed internally and escape should have been possible.

This fire clearly propagated internally as quick as externally.

What we don't need, but unfortunately will get, is a load of armchair experts.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Questions can be still be asked and educated guesses made. We shouldn't wait years to improve the fire safety measures until the end of the investigation, we should do what we can now.

We know the material on the outside of the building is flammable. It's banned in multiple countries. If the fire alarms didn't work we also know that is unacceptable. Both of those may be opinions but they're pretty solid ones and steps we can address before the outcome of an investigation.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7795696.html

However, this is denied:
http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-t...-says-10919319

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It is NOT banned in multiple countries. It's use is RESTRICTED. Even an 8 storey building in the US or Germany would have been destroyed in the same manner. The restrictions are based upon reach of the fire ladders, not it's flammability. Theoretically, the higher the reach of the fire ladders, the higher the floors it could be used.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

As you obviously are not speculating here, can you link the Fire Brigade report concluding this?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes they can

Bollocks. Educated guesses? Yeah.

don't disagree.

Lots of stuff is flammable, doesn't mean it's bad. Depends how it is used and deployed for the location it us designed to reside.

If, then yes.

No such thing as a solid " opinion"

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The pictures speak for themselves.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

One man's analysis is another man's speculation when seen from a different angle.
I don't think it's over-harmful to speculate but we shouldn't delude ourselves that our armchair analysis is anything more this.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Nice try, That was clearly self evident. if you own a pair of eyes.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I'm sorry but none of that justifies a mob storming the civic centre. The TMO and Council have responsibility here but it's not the ordinary staff of those organisations who are to blame for any of this.

TMO:

http://www.kctmo.org.uk/index

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I'd rather not speculate. It could be that the exterior fire spread compromised the internal compartmentation or the internal compartmentation was indeed flawed and the fire would have spread, as you say, without the external cladding ignition source.

I guess we will have to wait until we get an authoritative report ..

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

London has had a homeless population far in excess of those who've lost their homes in the Grenfell disaster for decades. Many have been homeless for years but I don't see Saint Corbyn demanding homes be requisitioned for them. Why not? We're all human beings as he likes to remind us all the time, why don't they (and anyone else who's lost their home for whatever traumatic reason) deserve the same help that he's demanding now? Answer, because this far more about political point scoring than the homeless.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

So has the government not tried the same with their £5million fund? Does this mean that if your house now burns down through no fault of your own you are going to be entitled to approx. £5,500 plus all the other expenses the government have promised? I don't begrudge the people affected anything, but the 'scheme' was only announced when it became apparent how badly HMG had handled things.


Cheers


Dave

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I think you'll find it is due to how badly K&C Council were handling it.

Responsibility for taking care of survivors transferred to new response team after criticism of Kensington and Chelsea

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Now there's an idea!

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

HMG has been forced to step in as a result of the chaos which has unfolded in Kensington and the desperate need to get something done about a disaster problem which the LA clearly couldn't cope with. Corbyn is telling everyone Labour care more about the homeless yet his party have done very little about the problems I highlighted whether the homeless in general or the conditions within these tower blocks which at least the LA concerned were trying to improve even if it all went terribly wrong. What was that block like when Labour were in Government for 13 years. If it was such an important cause why was it left for the evil Tories to undertake? If the last Labour government had passed the law and got on with the job there'd have been no need for this refurbishment and the use of flammable materials would have been outlawed.

Why on earth would a serious party leader recommend seizing property, with all the complicated legal (and other) ramifications and huge costs that would have, when it would be far easier/quicker and make more sense just to rent accommodation for the families concerned until suitable permanent housing be found? He's done it for one reason only, to stir up more us v them hatred in just the same way as they've done countless times in my lifetime. The sort of hatred in which buildings are burned and ironically people could have died. I hope his totally irresponsible stirring doesn't turn out to cost lives too.

If Corbyn's going to tell us that Labour would do it all differently he'll have to explain why they didn't do that all before not just whine on and on about what the Tories should be doing in the immediate aftermath of a disaster.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes, but why do the government now feel the need to give the residents £5,500? I'm struggling to see the link between the failure of the local (Conservative?) council and the need for central government to wade in with handfuls of cash. The response of the LHA has been disgusting and changes need to be made there but why are we giving away money? Re-house yes but you buy insurance to cover you for things like this.

And I think you know why Labour didn't do anything radical during their last administration - they were quite a different flavour to the Labour party we've got today.


---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:29 ----------

Very badly handled but that doesn't explain the need to hand out cash.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I wonder if everyone whose home burns down is now entitled to £5,500 ?

Perhaps the Insurance companies will now deduct that sum from any insurance claim.


Some interesting comments from a BBC report ;

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It's not just the last Labour administration though is it, I'm old enough to recall all the broken dreams and promises of Labour governments dating back to Harold Wilson so please don't assume Bliar's time is my sole benchmark when judging Labour. They have always talked the talk yet either failed to deliver or virtually ruined the economy with their ineptitude and pathetic us V them dogma which frankly belongs back in the last century along Arthur Scargill, Red Robbo, Derek Hatton and the rest of the red loonies.

There's nothing different about Corbyn - he's been playing the same old tune for decades for anyone old enough to remember. The same old hate filled us v. them garbage which is perennially used to cover up Labour's failings.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I understand you have the odd issue with the Labour party but I'd still be interested to know why you seem to feel only the Labour party are trying to make political hey from what we hopefully both agree is a tragedy. Do you not feel the government giving money to those affected could fall in to the same category - especially after the response during the first few days that was nothing more than a fiasco? If the Local Authority had of stepped up on day 1 do you seriously think the hand-outs would have been forthcoming? The only difference is the Conservatives have been pushed in to trying to score some points because of dithering ineptitude and someone somewhere has come up with £5million as a figure that they hope will be the smallest amount required to buy themselves out of the hole they've been digging.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It must have been seriously tempting to do absolutely nothing since anything they do there will always be someone to moan/complain about it. ;)

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Couldn't agree more, just as there will always be people who dance around the issue without answering the question ;)


Cheers


Dave

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Apparently, because of the demographics of the people living in this tower block, it has transpired that there was overcrowding and that illegal immigrants were living there.

There is to be an amnesty so that these people can come forward to claim the money that they are 'owed'!

I wonder if the owners of the Titanic paid out compensation to any stowaways?

Meanwhile, there were/are London born people living on the streets/forced out of the capital...

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Good point!

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

There should be no amnesty and no payments to illegal immigrants and even the thought of that demonstrates why this country is becoming a joke. From what I've read so far it was a tenant on the fourth floor responsible for the fire and they just left without raising the alarm great neighbour there. The decisions that led to that cladding need to be asked and answered but we also have to look at responsibility that may lie with the tenants as well, I've been to tower blocks before where doors were wedged open and smoke detectors disabled because people wanted to smoke in comfort. There is definately blame and responsibility within the council but at this stage all avenues of blame and responsibility need to be looked at.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Adele turned up at a fire station that battled the fire, she knocked on their window loaded with cakes for a chat and cuddle.

http://news.sky.com/story/adele-visi...uddle-10921070

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I'm trying to work out how a claimed 600 people would fit into a total of 225 bedrooms, in mainly 1 or 2 bedroom flats.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Not sure how accurate the 600 people figure is but there were many families in that block. Children could share a room etc.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

That still works out at around an average of 3.5 children per extra bedroom(98) and assuming 2 adults per adult bedroom(127). An average means some will be less and some will be more.

40x1 bed, 80x2 bed, 3x3 bed, 4x4 bed.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I'm not sure. There is likely be some over-occupancy in some flats but the suggestion of some immigrants being in there and illegal sublets seems to mean there isn't a definitive list of residents.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Well I heard that there where 5 members in a two bedroom flat, so 600 is easily reached.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I doubt very much the management company is settling for 3%, that's another question that could do with being asked imo, how many different individuals and companies were taking a slice of the refurbishment pie. Another question that needs addressing right now is why are victims of this disaster sleeping rough in cars and parks

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-have-10653319


I don't think you can add up people's circumstances with such simple maths, for instance it's perfectly legal and acceptable according to my local authority to turn my living room into another bedroom, potentially it was/ is a box ticking exercise to turn every 1 bedroom flat into a 2 bedroom and every 2 bedroom into a 3 etc

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

News breaking on lbc about the refurbishment work not being signed of...

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Well presumably the company still got paid..How would that have gone ahead?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a number of people living/staying there who shouldn't have been. Sub-letting is an increasingly common problem in our major cities and then of course there could well have been family friends who were being put up unofficially. That'll be why the police said quite clearly the other day that people should report 'anyone' who'd been in the block at the time and they had no interest in why they were there.

I do think the authorities need to be 'interested' in this problem, however, because overcrowding tends to lead to rule breaking (e.g. overloaded electrical outlets) which can also be the cause of fires etc. Yes they do need to be sensitive in the circumstances but IMHO they also need to know that the people in those flats were supposed to be there and that occupancy rules were being followed.

Anyone who doubts the scale of this problem ought to check out some of the rogue landlord type TV documentaries which show how common serious sub-letting is - I've seen examples in which dozens of people, almost always foreign nationals, have been crammed into very modest, usually unsafe houses with just mattresses on the floor. They're being terribly exploited and put at severe risk by landlords who have no morals at all and they don't feel able to complain because they're either illegal immigrants or have no other choice of where to live.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Isn't the whole point about sub-letting, that the landlord is not the true landlord? Also those sorts of TV progs show how difficult it is for the owners to do anything. Can take several months to get rid.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes, by 'landlord' I was referring to both the ones doing the illegal subletting (thereby acting as landlords) unknown to a genuine owner and those landlords who knowingly let out their own run down/unsafe premises to far too many people.

It's a huge problem for the genuine, unwitting landlord who finds that his property has been sublet and he/she's held responsible for it with often £1,000's in associated costs and losses. Yes another reason why rents are going up I imagine.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

But would that be part of the planning docs?

At the planning stage you have to have faith that the architects and designers know what they are doing. The specifics of using certain materials is down to them.

Looking at the sectional views of the exterior walls you can easily see how the fire went to and fro between the inside and the outside. You have either 150mm of flammable insulation or window frames covering the outside of the building and little else.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Hmmm ;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40357280

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Good for them to find a swift resolution to it. By the sounds of it these are social housing apartments built in the midst of the complex rather than luxury apartments themselves.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Indeed that is excellent news.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes, that's right. Another story on it:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rtment-complex

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Apparently the developer sold them to the government 'at cost'

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Totally agree. Whilst I have sympathy for everyone involved on a humane level, politically and financially I don't think that those who should have not been in the building should be compensated.

Boris Johnson made a sensible argument for doing this though. He believes that by doing so the body count will be more accurate and those responsible can be held to account for all the deaths.

---------- Post added at 15:52 ---------- Previous post was at 15:42 ----------

It's well known that foreign persons are willing to put up with overcrowding and 'bed in a shed' situations for various reasons, without a thought for safety, regulations etc.

Very true. Good point about overloading electrical sockets too. Also, staircases are built to regulations for safety reasons. I assume that they will have been built to accommodate the evacuation of the maximum number of people expected to be in the block at any one time.

I wonder if this is to include those that were in the block illegally?

Either way, if I was born in this country and currently homeless I'd be pretty annoyed about this.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Show me anything anywhere that indicates that could be the case.

Why?

The people in the block were previously shown as eligible for housing based on the council's rules, and now they are being rehoused.

Nowhere does it say that anyone is getting other than that which they previously had, and for some people they may end up needing less because they will have lost family.

Nor have I seen anything to say this is this any different than if any other housing association or council property was taken out of the housing stock - barring the horrific circumstances in which the change is happening. Those in the property would be rehoused where appropriate.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Are there any other ways to legally download the single as I refuse to put iTunes on my PC.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It's also on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/track/5y9VR6oWTFjtprI6Zia6aB

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Kensington residents OUTRAGED at plans to rehouse Grenfell fire survivors nearby


RESIDENTS of Kensington’s luxury properties have been bombarded for complaining that the rehousing of the Grenfell Tower survivors will cause property prices to plummet

Anna, who is in her 60’s, is not happy to see the survivors rehoused in a new development close to her flat.

She told the Independent: “North Kensington is not this Kensington. They should be in a place where they are happy, but not here. I don’t want them here.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/819...rent-residents

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I wonder how long it will be before we hear stories of those rehoused in luxury appartments trashing them and selling off the contents?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

just needs banging music blaring out 24/7 pee and puke on the stairs and in the lifts old furniture on the walkways the odd car on bricks and it's home sweet home ;)

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Oh what wonderful stereotyping.....

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It's all very well criticising the residents of the chosen development but how many of the perennial great and the good choose to surround themselves with similarly needy people. There seems to be a massive 'industry' in exaggerated sympathy amongst some really very rich celebrities who like to make a big fuss about helping the cause when that help usually amounts to launching singles, attending lavish fundraising events, donating concert proceeds but very little else. The truth is most of these people would be just as concerned if those who've lost their homes and possessions were going to be housed in their swanky streets, estates and country bolt holes. I can see there being problems if I am honest, maybe even legal challenges to what's being done and with this large number of people needing housing at the same time that's sadly going to be inevitable.

As far as I'm concerned the little lad who donated his pocket money, those who gave what little they had to spare and those who got out there on the ground doing the dirty stuff are far more deserving of recognition (not that they wanted any) than many of those who seem to appear at times like this when there's PR to be had but soon disappear thereafter. I dare say it makes them feel better when they sing songs about need, poverty and injustice when they have so much more than those they reckon they're concerned about.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

A number of tower blocks have same flammable cladding, says Theresa May and Theresa May confirms cladding forms part of criminal investigation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-po...ments-40353862

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I know people who work at the center that formed the base camp for support and some celebrities turn up in private, such as Adele, to offer help. Remember after George Michael died and it turned out he had been working at a homeless shelter for years without publicity?

Celebrities are just like normal people. There will be those who want to help, those who do it because it makes them feel better about themselves and those who do it for cynical self-promotion. All are things that apply to ordinary people too.

The main difference is they have a platform to amplify their cause in a way ordinary people do not. I see little reason to object to that when the cause is so uncontroversial as raising money for those that have lost their home. Does it matter if they are doing it to feel better about themselves? That's what a lot of people who do good do it for, doing good for others makes you feel good too.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

If only it was the cladding that had been the problem. IT WASN'T. It was the insulation. When are people going to get that? Why hasn't anybody(other than myself) checked out the plans and materials used? The materials used are rated ok, IF the installation of them is designed properly.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

For members who don't live anywhere near the Tower block fire.

I have worked in the area, and live approx. 5 miles from this area. The houses that are on there doorstep are MULTI MILLIONAIRES who don't give a damn about the 'poor' of our society such as social living.

And for rich residents who say that by the 'social residents' living in the Posh pads. I say go xxxx yourself. People like that make me puke.

There are many houses in that area, that are empty as the owners live abroad. and have the houses for tax breaks.

Yes, Simon Cowell lives not far from the Tower Block either.


The residents of the Tower Block need all the help it can get. In fact my line manager is down there today helping out on official business

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I have no problem what they do behind the scenes and I'm very well aware of many of the very good deeds done by George Michael and others. It matters to me if they are doing it primarily to obtain PR and rebuild flagging careers and of course that doesn't apply to all of them. I just find it very distasteful that people who have more money than they could ever know what to do with so often choose to give in a manner which costs ordinary people who are the ones who're buying the records and attending the charity concerts. What I detest is the pious mentality through which some of these people seek to give the world the impression they really care when their caring usually involves costs or sacrifices borne by others who have far far less than them.

The other day IIRC Andy Murray pledged his Queens Club winnings to the cause. Why did he need to tell the world that? He's done similar before IIRC, promising so much charity money for every ace he served at Wimbledon or something like that. Why not do what George Michael did and just give some money and keep quiet? As it turned out his winnings weren't very much and I'd like to think he's done what he should have in the first place if he's really interested in that charity. I'm sure he's given to other charities but just don't feel comfortable with the need to do it in this manner. To be fair, at least he didn't promise to house people with no real intention of doing so like so many other people did so disgracefully.

On the one had yes it's nice that charities benefit either way but it leaves a really bitter taste in my mouth that ultra rich celebrities boost their careers and get lauded whilst the real heroes get overlooked apart just like they all too often do. It'll be the rich celebs who get the recognition and dine out on this not the heroes like the guy in Manchester I heard this morning on BBC radio who was one of the first to respond to the bomb attack in Manchester and has been finding life since really very tough.

---------- Post added at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 ----------

This is now a political problem and no government/politician is going to want to be seen to allow the further use of these material and then be accused of not caring about social housing etc. etc. It doesn't matter what the experts claim if the political damage caused is going to be significant. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a complete overreaction to this and decisions will be made that contradict expert opinion for political reasons. Spend countless millions of pounds (possibly unnecessarily) and you can make yourself look good but try telling people in flats clad in the same stuff that it's safe, even if it has been done properly and is safe. They're going to believe what they want to believe now and I can understand why...

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The same materials are used all over this country, all around the world, and on all sorts of buildings. Are they all wrong?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

well if they are there's going to be a shortage of luxury flats on the market

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Probably not all wrong no, but as I said, I don't think the people in any affected blocks and their political/other representatives will care about any of that now. They'll probably be panicking about the prospect of fire and what to do in the event that it happens - stay put or leave? There's political capital to be made and lost here now, that's what's going to determine what happens.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

watching the opening of parliament yesterday i was quite disgusted at corbin laying blame for the fire and lack of sprinklers etc the flats were built in the 70's so every government since then has failed on fire precautions not just the present one

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I quite agree that successive governments since the late 1960's (when the original plans were drawn up) should hang their heads in shame but I think we all know it's the party in power who cop for it - just like playing a horrific game of musical chairs or pass the parcel.

Whilst scoring political points from the blame game is (rightly) frowned upon, I wouldn't be surprised if in the coming months the Government in power at the time tries to score political points for the inevitable upgrades coming to many high-rise buildings.

Cheers

Dave