Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

good someone might end up in prison for leaking sensitive information

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

The NYT has it in for Trump so I imagine they'll put anything which causes problems for him to the top of their agenda and the hell with anything else.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Yeah. I think that whilst people might be fussy on the details they know ISIS and others want complete destruction. They hate and destroy everything, little girls going to concerns anger them, satire angers them even works of Islamic architecture and art seems to anger them. They destroy historic moments in Syria. It's a complete black hole.

Very few people are actually thinking 'well, well are they bombing things!' but rather asking why do they want such destruction? As Osem says we have theories there too.

The answers though are harder.

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Again to be fair the NYT are lower on the list of whose leaked the most on this issue. NBC have leaked details of the investigation, links to Libya and how they identified the bomber. CBS leaked the name. The U.S Government is leaking like crazy.

---------- Post added at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

Yeah but it's one guy and I'm not totally sure he isn't talking more in depth. I.E What motivates him to follow such a destructive cause? He does later in the speech cite the other attacks in Europe for example so it's clear he knows what 'cause' that he drew from but is wondering why someone would follow it.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

They are not lower on the list at all. They were the only ones, yesterday to first post pictures of the bomb fragments. The day before that, they had pictures of dead people on the floor of the Manchester Arena, they had made no attempt to blur any images of the victims.

While other news outlets are guilty of leaking stuff, I would say leaking pictures of bomb fragments, leaking more intelligence when UK asked for it to stop, is a serious issue and NYT has sank to serious low levels of journalism and like a commentator was saying on Sky News earlier and I agree with them, they are using the Manchester Bombing, in their crossfire attacks on Trump, only it is now backfiring on them and it serves them right. Utterly reprehensible publication ethics.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

There's clearly a campaign being raged against trump by a wide range of organisations and clearly no bar can be set low enough for them not to limbo under with ease. As for the answer to islamic extremism it's simple but not palatable to a large number the answer is find them and kill them they live by violence and they spend all their time commiting or planning violence there is no middle ground for them and there shouldn't be for us either in eradicating them.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

It was Trump who apparently released the Israeli intelligence on Isis to Russia, not some shady conspirators.
We don't know the motivations of those who leaked the Manchester information to CBS, NBC etc. There do seem to be multiple people involved and whilst it's not great for the reputation of the US, I don't think people are blaming Trump for it.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Sadly, you can no longer rely, in general, on the mainstream UK churches to understand what is really going on. They have succumbed to the spirit of political correctness, and seem not to understand Ephesians 6:12.

---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:00 ----------


Yes we do. They will do anything to cause trouble for Trump. It aint rocker science! All the media outlets you mention are anti Trump and are pushing a liberal agenda. What better attack strategy than to cause a rift between America's two main allies; The UK and Israel. Especially as Trump and the UK are standing up for national sovereignty and border control, the opposite of 'liberal' thinking.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

We simply don't know if that's the motivation of the leakers. There's a whole host of other potential reasons. Unhappy staff, for one, who may not be anti-Trump but have other grievances.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

U.S Media commentators are saying Obama 'leftovers', who still have a job, that don't necessarily get changed when a new President is sworn in.

I would say they have a axe still to grind, but their low life actions in jeopardizing a Active Terrorist investigation of one of their allies, is unforgivable and more importantly, is a Felony. Lock them up I say and take a few New York Times/ABC/or other media **** that published our Intel, with them.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Again then, these same people that have been illegally leaking documents for the anti-Trump agenda for way too long. It's great to see that America has become so lopsided that if it isn't Trump, it isn't a problem. :rolleyes:

They should've actually been arrested and charged months ago, I wouldn't hold your breath for anything to change now.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

I imagine it's someone who wants to make some extra cash..

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Generally the American and UK broadsheet press wouldn't pay a source or for a leak.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

In recent years we've seen the rise of leaks (some very serious indeed) and I think we're heading down a very slippery slope in which people may act for what they believe are the right reasons without appreciating the unintended consequences of their actions. Whatever the reason for leaking information, it's so much easier for it to be disseminated nowadays and therefore for the genie to get out of the bottle. What might have started out as a means by which to embarrass a president, for example, could just set off who whole chain of very unfortunate events which costs us all dear.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Again; not rocket science; they have liberal views, annoyed that Hillary lost and are anti Trump.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

The motivation could be different and the leakers in each case may not be the same people. After all there is a clear difference between the motivation of leaking the Trump/Russia stuff and leaking the intelligence of an ally. The latter is going to reduce the likelihood and support for the former....

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Staggering, since their brethren in many muslim parts of the world could set them straight (those that are still alive that is).

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

The motivation doesn't affect the unintended consequences and even well intentioned leaks can backfire badly. Just because someone's in the position to leak sensitive information doesn't mean they've thought it all through or can control how it's used and acted upon.

---------- Post added at 16:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:24 ----------

What on Earth brings you to that conclusion? :confused:

;)

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Exactly. It's human nature to find a simplistic binary answer and one that meets a reader's inherent bias and prejudices. Reality is far more complex.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Or to ignore an answer staring them in the face, because of 'a reader's inherent bias and prejudices'.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Everyone thinks they have common sense, but everyone else is biased, or can't see what's in front of them.

There are very rarely simple answers to complex questions...

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Yours is a possible theory as are others. Things are really as straightforward as you and I would like them to be.
It's unBritish to shoot first and then ask questions afterwards, so let's see how this develops. Hopefully - with the perpetrators found and punished and we'll discover their motives then.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

7/7 Met police chief calls for extremists to be locked up in INTERNMENT camps as he says MI5 and police cannot keep track of 3,000 terror suspects

Thousands of radical extremists must be locked up in new internment camps to protect Britain from the unprecedented terror threat it faces, a Muslim former police chief declares today.
Writing exclusively for The Mail on Sunday, Tarique Ghaffur warns there are too many extremists on the streets for police and MI5 officers to monitor.
Mr Ghaffur, an Assistant Commissioner at Scotland Yard when the 7/7 bombings took place, proposes that special centres be set up to detain as many as 3,000 extremists, where they can be kept from launching attacks.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4iMVmmX9e
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

We should try and learn from history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14458270

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

destroy your enemy down to the last one or they will return and destroy you .

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

We we have to be luck 100% of the time, they <1%.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

I think you meant 'rarely' ?


In most cases, I would agree with you, but not this one.


There is a move, by the elites to move this world to global governance and mass immigration. Obama was on board and so was Hillary. Trump stood for the opposite sovereign state view. This was a blockage to that agenda that clearly angered the elites. This is why they are trying every which way to discredit Trump and try to remove him from power.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

How do you suggest we do that?

---------- Post added at 15:43 ---------- Previous post was at 15:43 ----------

I'm sorry, but the only reply to that can be "wibble".

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Nah, they're all just going to sit back as the world tumbles into chaos, waiting for their day of reckoning to come, whereupon they'll be delighted to hand over all that wealth and excess property to the masses. It's not like the rich and powerful have a track record of subjugating the masses for their own ends and when their wealth and/or power is under threat is it. Just look back in history, it never happens does it and the last thing they'd want to do is stick together in order to exert their influence towards the common goal of protecting what they've got... :rolleyes:

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

You sound like a socialist! :D Redistribution now!

But seriously I think you underestimate how these people all compete against each other. Look at Trump himself. The 'establishment' hates him but he's part of what would be considered the 'elite' with the property empire and wealth. They're not getting on even as Trump is giving them tax cuts. :shrug:

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

follow orders

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Socialist?! Wash your mouth out. :)

I'm not recommending it, just predicting it.

I don't think I underestimate the problems they'll face. They'll certainly still compete against eachother but if/when the chips are really down they'll stick together because they have a common interest in so doing. The alternative will be far worse just like it was when the west and Russians fought the Nazis. It'll be the only way they can protect what they've got and doing so won't be simple but that won't stop them trying and forming whatever political and other alliances are required to try to influence policy.

Unless we suffer a calamity, the population of the world isn't going to stop growing fast and competition for resources is only going to get worse as is the drive of billions of poor people to find a better way of life elsewhere. Yes of course we may well be talking many decades but the end game is inevitable IMHO.

Anyway, this is digressing rather from the topic. I'd like to be able to blame it on Corbyn but even I can't do that. :D

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Now that President Trump is back in the U.S, he has tweeted about the U.S leaks of British Intelligence to U.S Media outlets..

I do not think he will let this lie and throw the book at the leakers, I just hope he orders the DoJ, to prosecute all those news agencies that published those pictures of Manchester Arena Crime scene. I know they believe in freedom of the press, but publishing another Countries intelligence information, in the middle of a investigation was totally unacceptable.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Prosecute them for what? They didn't leak it so they didn't break any law with regards to violating secrecy laws and they're then otherwise protected by the 1st amendment. They don't just believe in freedom of the press, it's part of their laws. I am not even sure the President can dictate to the DOJ who should be prosecuted.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Prosecute them for publishing leaked information, that they obtained through illegal means. The leaker probably broke the law, so the information they have obtained is via illegal means....

If they published content that was deemed classified, do you think the first amendment still applies ?

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

It's not a crime to publish leaked information unless you're the one who leaked it. The leaker is the one who broke the law but not the people who published it. That's why Chelsea Manning went to jail, Edward Snowden is stuck in Russia but the newspapers themselves publish their leaks from New York without trouble. In fact The Guardian moved their reporting of the Snowden story from London to America precisely because of the increased protection they would have in doing so.

And yes the 1st amendment does apply here because no one at the newspaper has broken a law. They never signed the American equivalent of the Official Secrets Act.

These papers clearly think they're in the clear otherwise they wouldn't have published it and other newspapers and TV channels wouldn't have picked it up. Multiple outlets have reported the NY Times story or broken their own story. That's multiple teams of lawyers who've cleared it for publication.

Trump can try to prosecute the NY Times, CBS, NBC, The Washington Post and ABC but it seems unlikely

---------- Post added at 22:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

The source is the Independent who've really gone downhill in pursuit of clickbait but it's claimed the FBI warned MI5 about the bomber a few months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingd...man_abedi_was/

Apparently this is in addition to his mosque reporting him and friends/fellow students reporting him. Looks like he slipped though the net. I think though that MI5 must get so many of these it's understandable.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Oh dear, Hugh; we've been here before. You really must stop using those 33rd degree level Scottish rite masonic code words! ;):D

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

You're right he really should, here's a recent picture of Hugh confirming this

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

BBC: MI5 is to hold an inquiry into the way it dealt with warnings from the public that the Manchester suicide bomber, Salman Abedi, was a potential threat.
The security service, which was alerted to Abedi's extremist views three times prior to last Monday's attack, will examine how it dealt with the warnings.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40080646

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Nope. PB hit the nail on the head there.

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Unlikely I would be in the Masons, considering I'm a "left-footer".... ;)

What orders?

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

that's the ticket plausible deniability .

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

Had a little chuckle to myself at lunchtime when Channel 5 reported that the leader of UKIP had called for the reintroduction of the death penalty for Suicide Bombers :D

Re: Manchester Arena Terror Attack: 22 Dead : 50+ Injured
 

hmm there seems to be a slight flaw in that plan ;)