Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Outside of any iPlayer app on a set top box that wouldn't really be up to VM?

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Only in your mind OB as l like to deal with reality and not big if's , but's and maybe's.

---------- Post added at 16:01 ---------- Previous post was at 16:00 ----------

l cannot really answer that OB.:)

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

If you like to deal with reality, you might be able to convince me if you gave reasons why you are so dismissive of many of my posts on what may come.

At least I do provide links to back up what I say. You tend to tell me it will never happen, without any supporting argument.

Why exactly do you think the 2018 World Cup will not be shown in 4k in the UK, given the information I have provided? I agree it's not certain that we will get it, but saying there's no prospect of it happening ignores the fact that the beeb have already completed trials on their player.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Dismissive is that what you call it OB as l would call it a opinion from another member who thinks differently from you on a variety of threads and discussions as l thought that is what one did when one is allowed to have a view and a opinion.

---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------

Posting links does not make something happen OB as like you , l and others its just another subjective opinion by someone else at the end of the day

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

But if an opinion is to be taken seriously, should not a reason for the opinion be given?

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Personally l cannot see UHD channels happening on the terrestrial channels.

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------

l think you overplay and use too much hyperbole on issues like streaming taking over from Linear TV and of Linear TV disappearing , UHD and how the sports rights market will play out as l have not seen anything to suggest that what you state in your future world is actually happening IMO.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

then tell us where UHD BBC and ITV channels are OB you cant they don't exist FACT

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Once again, if UHD comes to the BBC in time for the World Cup, it will be through the BBC i-Player.

Clearly, the ability to do so is there because trials have already taken place.

---------- Post added at 18:04 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

I said it would appear on the i-Player. Why do you and Dave keep referring to the broadcast channels? I have not said that such a channel will appear soon.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

why you keep saying it not a FACT when even you know it is there UHD channels don't exist

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I think you should actually read my posts before responding, Dave. You keep repeating questions I've already answered.

You aren't a robot, are you? :shrug:

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

and you should read my post OB I stated a FACT bbc and itv don't have UHD channels you kept saying it not a fact when it clearly is

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Ok, but do you agree with OB that the BBC have the ability to transmit UHD content through the i-Player?

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I never said it didn't have the ability to do that will it we have to wait and see on that

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Actually, Dave, this is the post that you originally put on here. You went on to argue that this was a fact.

It is certainly a fact that broadcast UHD channels do not currently exist. No argument about that.

But are you seriously basing your argument on there never being UHD channels in the future? That is, because there are no such channels now, there never will be?

In any case, I have explained to you a few times that the BBC i-Player has already demonstrated its capability to provide us with UHD pictures - I've seen the video myself on my Sony UHD TV, and it was excellent quality.

Given that the feed will be provided by FIFA, this makes the Beeb's job an awful lot easier. This is an excellent opportunity for the BBC to make their mark in the UHD world. It would certainly be a national embarrassment if other European countries were able to bring the World Cup to their citizens and the 'once mighty' UK could not.

I see absolutely no reason for the BBC not rising to this challenge. Why do you not see it this way?

---------- Post added at 09:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 ----------

Well, that clears that up, then. :rolleyes:

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

the first post I didn't say fact OB the post I said fact on was there no UHD channels of course in time there will be UHD channels but long way off yet

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

A very long way off Dave.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Exactly Den bbc and ITV haven't even got all regional programs in HD yet never mind UHD

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Well, the important point is we have established that the 'fact' you were referring to related to the current lack of any UHD channels.

The thing you never made clear was why you thought it extremely unlikely that the World Cup would be screened in UHD on the BBC i-Player, which was my actual point. I guess we are not going to get any further on that. Not long before we have the answer, I guess.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

And how many more years is it going to take for them to do that Dave as the BBC have had their money cut for quite a while now thus things get delayed or even shelved sadly.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

This is nothing to do with HD for the regions. This is about UHD nationally, which we have seen has been trialled already on the i-Player.

However, if you want to talk about the lack of HD in the regions, that's fine by me, but it's not really in keeping with this thread.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

UHD live streaming available to anyone with a 40mb + internet connection that should rule quite a lot out.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Shall we send our answers back to you on a postcard MM.;)

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

In fact, that is probably the reason why UHD hasn't made more of an impact thus far, and why the content providers are being slow off the mark.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

For UHD just remember 3D and you won't go far wrong..

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

UHD = 'Emperor's New Clothes'. Still think HD is overrated for anyone with a screen that doesn't take up half the living room.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Well, that's the point, really; UHD is only relevant to those with bigger screens.

It is also relevant to point out that a growing number of us do in fact have larger screens.

Therefore, UHD is becoming an issue that satellite and cable providers need to addresss. This is one of those situations where customer demands are falling short of supply.

---------- Post added at 01:28 ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 ----------

3D failed because we had to wear these ridiculous glasses.

I mean, c'mon Den, that was not exactly sexy, was it?

:drool:

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

It also failed because the amount of content available was very limited OB.

---------- Post added at 05:12 ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 ----------

Demands that will never be met as again think of 3D TV and thus there it tells a story that will very likely repeat itself in the short life of UHD.

https://www.cnet.com/news/shambling-...lls-down-dead/

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Knowing Virgins track record,by the time they launch 4K,8K will be out.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Worrying,y, you may be correct.

Have to agree 3D was doomed to fail because you had to wear the glasses.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Unless you are going to purchase a telly with a wall to wall screen, 8k is pretty pointless.

I shall be sticking with 4k!

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I don't believe that will be the case. A lot more people have large screens these days, and UHD makes for a better viewing experience. Given the demand, the change to UHD will come, but the expense of conversion means that we have to wait for the studios and broadcasters to catch up.

The best comparison with 3D is VR! Virtual reality is causing excitement in some quarters, but it won't catch on. There will be an initial flurry and then, like 3D, it will fizzle out.Anything like this requiring glasses will suffer the same fate.

8k is unlikely to take off as so few will have TV screens so big as for this to make an appreciable difference.

The next big thing? My bet is on holographic TV. There I go, putting my neck on the line again!

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Well we shall see OB as your future predictions have a habit of coming off the rails sooner rather then lately,

---------- Post added at 19:03 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------

Yo might need some more treatment for your neck if you continue to put it on the line as it must be getting rather painful of late for you.;)

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I don't know why you say that, Den. The future hasn't arrived yet. I'm beginning to think you are lost in the space/time continuum. :dmonk:

---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

No mention of the Winter Games being brought to us in UHD, which is a bit disappointing.

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20171030...#axzz4x1InQRrr

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

l do actually bump into Captain John and his crew from time to time.;)

---------- Post added at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

Disappointment seems to be following you lately as expectation and reality are very much two sides of the same coin OB.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

There's plenty of optimism going around, Den, you just like to focus in on the dark side!

Did you see that the Blue Planet II series had been filmed in UHD? It's only a matter of time, old chap!

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...d-wows-cannes/

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

The future is already here – it's just not evenly distributed...

(William Gibson)

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Very much a drop in the ocean OB and as the old saying goes one swallow does not make a summer.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Exactly - VM customers being at the bottom of the list.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Both Bounty Hunters and the latest series of Strike Back are available on Sky in UHD , Sky seem to be ordering their new originals in the UHD format.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

With Sky rolling out a non dish FULL TV service next year VM have quite a bit to be worried about IMO especially with lack of UHD on their system.

With people being able to take SKY who couldn't before (myself included cos of a great big tree in the sight view) more people may be likely to at least TRY 12 months with SKY if they want UHD in their lives.

Unlike 3D, UHD will be here to stay IMO and with VM having no channels of their own to barter with they are left to the whim of BT and SKY to A) let them carry the UHD channels and B) get them a decent price that won't leave VM customers fuming at price hikes.

ADD Amazon, Netflix to that equation and even the naughty KODI boxes which can stream UHD and VM might struggle to keep up over the next few years.

Just my little thoughts for a Wednesday morning :)

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Please can you list all the times Sky and BT have successfully "bartered" their channels?

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

You are right, spider, although this is a common misconception. BT's sport channels and their exclusive AMC channel haven't exactly helped them in their negotiations with Sky.

However, VM do need to bump up their exclusive material just to compete with Sky and BT, much as I don't like the idea of material being ring fenced to just one platform. The recent 'Virgin Exclusives' are a step in the right direction.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Read again! I didn't say once that SKY or BT had bartered!.

I pointed out that IF VM had kept their suite of channels then they would have had something to barter with SKY about regarding UHD.

VM don't have that tool at their disposal now.

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

Also a bit daft to cherry pick (albeit incorrectly on your part) one part of a post which was meant as a whole :)

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

You're double counting the sale options there. You can't then say they should have kept them for UHD content bartering, when you've skipped why they were sold in the first place.

Virgin Media used the sale of their channels to gain access to the content that everyone was asking for at the time they were sold:

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1040...s-channels-sky

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

No moaning from me as they did the right thing at the right time as l wonder what suggestions those moaning would have had at that time?..

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

those moaning VM did wrong thing would be moaning very big time now that VM didn't have the sky HD channels that's for sure Den

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Yup! Absolutely fair point and well made! Didn't remember that part!

Spot on!

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Despite scepticism in some quarters, the BBC is taking UHD seriously, as evidenced here.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2017...ndon-5g-trial/

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

It's a 5G trial , still doesn't mean the Beeb will be delivering UHD over the air anytime soon.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Yep strange that bit was missing from his post.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Hold on, I was talking about the UHD content! And where have I ever said that the BBC will bring UHD to our screens 'over the air'? In short, never.

What I've said is the UHD is most likely to be delivered via the i-Player, and in fact I have seen the first pictures already in UHD on the i-Player. I also said that given the World Cup UHD feed will most likely be delivered by that method, the Beeb will probably make that available to the British audience, but not on a UHD broadcast channel.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

MTV have made a Live UHD feed available on Sky Q of the MTV EMA 2017 tonight not sure if it's also being carried on Virgin.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Dream on

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Is it being streamed or carried as a broadcast channel?

I don't think we'regetting UHD on Virgin (except through Netflix and YouTube) until 2018, from what I can gather.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

It was broadcast , it had a prompt on the HD channel saying press select to view in UHD.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Will still be a stream though.

DVB UHD-1 was only completed as a standard earlier this year:
https://www.v-net.tv/2017/03/03/prem...ext-gen-audio/

And I've not seen anything to say that any broadcaster has launched support for it yet.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

If as I think you are referring to an internet stream then no it certainly wasn't , Sky Sports broadcasts Premier League matches nearly every week using satellite they also do the same for the F1.

This is the beauty of UHD on Sky unlike BT's product it doesn't impact your broadband speed.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Reality strikes at last l see.;)

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

While I was thinking that this year was a possibility, I think it has always been more likely to be 2018, Den.

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 ----------

Is that what's holding up the launch of UHD on Virgin Media, Ben? Or is it just the lack of material UHD material?

It's a bit frustrating for those of us with UHD TVs!

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

UHD broadcasts are already being done however both BT and Sky currently don't include HDR.

This is an interesting read

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

This will always be a problem and l think you are starting to realise that.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

There is more and more UHD content coming all the time. Netflix , Amazon , Sky , BT , Apple , Google to name but a few.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

OB was talking about UHD Linear channels l believe and we certainly won't be getting any of them MM.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

It's going to be interesting, as one "standard" is introduced another one goes into development, offering an endless upgrade path for broadcasters and consumers alike.

A nice summary of the development path can be found here: https://www.dvb.org/resources/public...ing_in_uhd.pdf

Aha! but which flavour of UHD TV? Many have been around for quite a while now.

https://www.wired.com/2015/01/everyb...-one-just-yet/

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

No, I wasn't, Den, I was talking about UHD content.

I am not fixated on linear channels, as you well know by now.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

According to thy great man of wisdom they are as dead as a doornail.;)

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Not quite yet, but I see you get the drift!

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Yes that drift when it is convenient to you OB.;)

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

With the standards for UHD broadcasting sorted, maybe this will be the starting pistol for UHD broadcasts to take off in the UK.

The delay in announcing this may explain why Sky and Virgin have not done more to increase the amount of UHD material this year, and why VM appear to be pencilling in 2018 as the year when things are set to change.

http://www.a516digital.com/2017/11/w...standards.html

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Sky have increased the amount of UHD material since launch.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

But they don't broadcast any, do they?

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Yes live Sporting events and several concerts.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

As do BT.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

BT stream UHD and don’t broadcast any, as there aren’t any terrestrial UHD broadcasts.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I think that's what spider meant.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Well I'm afraid Spider was wrong as Sky broadcast Sport nearly every week over satellite it certainly isn't streamed using a broadband connection. Sky has no permanent UHD channels but it broadcasts at set times.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

So how exactly do you access the UHD material then, muppetman? Do they assign a 'pop up' channel number on the EPG?

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Either from the Sports menu or by going to the HD channel and pressing the UHD prompt.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Usually via the Menu or Red button on the channel the footy is on.

There is a lot of 4K content available to download, like Sky movies and Discovery etc.

Within seconds of it starting to download, you can watch it.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

On Virgin, some of the on demand channels are on the EPG, so it may be that muppetman is viewing a streaming broadcast without realising it.

Does anyone know the definitive answer to that question? Is UHD on Sky either streamed or on demand, or alternatively is it broadcast the same way as Sky Sports channels?

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Please don't insult my intelligence it's broadcast over satellite. Please remember Spider works for VM not Sky.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Sky broadcast sport, (mainly footy, F1, some test cricket) in 4K, the rest is streamed or downloaded.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I've already said that however some seem to doubt what I'm saying.

How they expect those customers with standard Sky Broadband to be streaming UHD Football is frankly beyond me.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I see how you have taken that, sorry! I just meant that it is not always obvious how a programme is delivered when some platforms allow you to access on demand stuff through the EPG.

My question is, what channel no do they allocate to sport when it is broadcast in UHD? I presume it is either a part time or a pop up channel.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

l don't but alas some are not for turning despite evidence contrary to their beliefs.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Some examples:

http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.ph...g=en&mux=11758

http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.ph...g=en&mux=12285

http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.ph...g=en&mux=12441

https://www.lyngsat.com/uhd/Astra-2E-2F-2G.html

I don't think you can say "broadcast the same way" as the use HEVC, but they are certainly broadcast.

---------- Post added at 15:59 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

The following is a listing of services on Sky by channel number:

https://www.lyngsat.com/packages/Sky-UK_chno.html

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and you'll see that (just before the radio section) there are several channels operating off the EPG, usually for on-demand content.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Thank you! So when there is a Sky Sports UHD broadcast, do you access it from the EPG (given that there is no allocated number) or from the on demand section of the menu?

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I've already told you Sky Q has a menu option Sports once you enter that there is another Ultra HD which lists what's on this week you can enter that way or by using the UHD prompt on the HD channel.

Do you not believe me the first time I say things.:D

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Sorry, old chap, I missed it because DVD Cinema's post came in ahead of yours (although your post was timed a minute before) and I didn't notice that you had already responded when I replied to him.

That clarifies it, thank you.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I wonder whether the BBC will start showing some 4K content pretty soon now on iPlayer, now that the 4K broadcast standards have been finalised.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I would certainly have thought so, particularly with the World Cup being screened in UHD in 2018.

However, they are being tight lipped about this, so we can only assume at the present time. As you know, they have already trialled UHD on the BBC i-Player. I saw that, and it was excellent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/planet_earth_4k

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

I've seen somewhere that BBCs next big documentary will be in 4k, no idea what the documentary is though.
Apparantly Blue Planet was filmed 4k ready so maybe that will appear in 4k on iplayer at some point.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Just to confirm a couple of UHD issues raised above:

On Sky - most UHD content is downloaded to the box for viewing - live sport events are broadcast live over satellite and are easily accessed using the red button on the HD version of that channel. You can also access live UHD via the main SkyQ menus. They can also be recorded from the menus but the events do not appear in the EPG on a separate UHD channel.

On BT - all live UHD content is streamed to the box - which is why many BT customers do NOT have access to UHD content. BT will not support their UHD channel on broadband lines running at a little less than 60mbps. Which is an awful lot of customers.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Does this mean that Sky will have to raise their UHD content to the new standard?

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Sky has already trialled HDR broadcasts many times they just haven't delivered it to customers so far. BT also don't deliver it's UHD broadcasts with HDR.

Broadcast HDR is far far more complex to deliver as opposed to its inclusion via On Demand. It's coming but when is the million dollar question.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

There we go, as expected, Blue Planet II on the BBC i-Player from next week!

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2017...n-bbc-iplayer/

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

Virgin Media missing from the list of compatible devices Sky Q is listed though

http://www.seenit.co.uk/bbc-iplayer-...ra-hd-and-hdr/

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

But not on a UHD channel because there simply is not enough content for it.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

No, as I said before, UHD on the Beeb will be on the i-Player. I think it will be a while before they have a dedicated UHD channel - a waste of bandwidth, in my opinion.

Re: UHD on Virgin Media
 

There is a BBC Blog about it, but unfortunately where they talk about compatible TVs the link doesn't work

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2017-12...et-bbc-iplayer

However as it's the same one for the UHD Trial, then I'd expect the the Virgin TV V6 box will be compatible.