Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Utterly disgusting, to get mobility payments on PIP is already very difficult as the criteria is significantly different to DLA, but these extra proposed changes simply to fund tax cuts for those who dont need it is disgusting.

But as I said months ago, the disabled are the easiest political target due to their small numbers, we have seen attacks on other parts of society failing due to the overwhelming negative press response. They simply refuse to see anything other than cutting expenditure as the way forward.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

As well as paying for equipment and aids, Disabled Living Allowance and Personal Independence Payments are there to provide a minimal income for those that cannot work due to their disabilities.

Iain Duncan Smith and his cronies seem determined to reduce the income of all non-working adults to the same low level, i.e. that of Jobseekers Allowance.

It has been reported that they are determined to move all disabled people on Employment Support Allowance (Work-related activity group) to just Jobseekers Allowance, ignoring the extra costs they endure in being actively seeking employment.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

The above post shows the type of leftie bollocks that ruined this country.Who the hell do you think you are telling people on £31,786 PA that they don't need a tax break ,they are the very people paying most of their income out to support disabled and unemployed people and yet are giving up nearly half of their income .

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Cuts that effect the genuine disabled are wrong, but part of the reason no one is all that bothered is due to fraudsters. We all have a neighbor or know of someone who is onbenefits, gets a free car, never goes to work but is blatantly abusing the system.

I know a fella who apparently can barely walk unaided but a few weeks ago walked 3 miles from a pub having left his "walking aid" behind. I've also seen him get out a taxi and have to run behind it waving it down having left his walking aid in it an walked up his drive unaided.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

The above post shows what a different planet a certain section of society are living on. The average wage in the UK is £26k. Only the income above £31,786 is taxed at the higher rate - a long way from 'half their income'. That anyone on these rates of income feels they need more at the expense of the basic needs of the disabled, is a sad enditement of our increasingly selfish and divided society.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

The real problem here is accurately distinguishing between those who's disabled acts are truly Oscar winning and those who try to manfully to cope with their disabilities and thus appear less disabled than they actually are.

Even with the economy growing at around it's historical "normal" rate there are insufficient tax revenues to finance day-to-day expenditure. Stopping giving away £billions to the EU and nations that don't need it would be a good start in plugging the hole.

For those who say there must be no cuts where are the major sums to come from? Borrowing to finance day-to-day expenditure is how we got into the mess we are in. The only tax base large enough that could provide these are the middle income group. £20K to £50K. I.E. YOU!

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

There are in sufficient tax revenues, as wages haven't grown as wonder boy George promised and he insists on cutting taxes for those that least need it. This is nothing to do with false benefit claims, more about being vindictive on those most vulnerable to pay for a tax give away for his chums. This is a cut too far and it isn't needed.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I think workers are paying enough tax in, it's just that too much is being paid out!

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

DLA and PIP are NOT there to provide additional income, that is the "job" of ESA.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

£31,786 or even £40,000 PA is not a vast amount of money and when housing/transport/family costs are taken into consideration then then giving 40% of earnings from a wage of £40,000 can leave those people worse off than quite a few disabled people because they don't get any state help at all

---------- Post added at 16:24 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------

When wages do grow socialists like you just want to take it in the from them and give it to those who don't contribute

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

You don't pay the 40% rate on the £40'000 you pay it on anything over the 40% tax threshold. Anything you earn below the 40% threshold is taxed at the normal rate.

Very simple example,

You earn £20'000 the 40% tax rate is on earnings over £15'000 so you pay the lower rate on the first £15'000 then the final £5000 is taxed at 40%.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I know how the tax system works, my point is that those middle income workers are the ones who suffer most ,paying more tax and receiving no state aid at all can leave them worse off than lower paid workers who pay no tax and receive tax credits .Just because part of someones earnings are taxed at 40% does not mean they are rich and can afford to pay more tax.In theory and practice they are the people contributing most to society so why should they be punished ?

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I agree with you, a system where someone can have their rent paid (£500a month) there council taxi paid (£150 a month) then receive £200-£300 a week in extra benefits plus a free £20'000 cars plus tax insurance and serving is unsustainable long term.

People need a reasonable level of help to achieve a reasonable level of lifestyle. Not to live in luxury with SkyTV, latest mobile phones, 100mb internet connections etc. When it takes the tax receipts of 4 working families to fund the lifestyle of 1 benefits claiming family the system needs changing.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Wrong way round, and DLA/PIP is not "additional income" but the only income in most cases. ESA (Work-related activity group) is to help with additional costs finding and keeping employment. ESA (income related) is also means tested, so stops if you (plus your partner) have more than £16K at any age. It is also reduced on a sliding scale if you have in excess of £6k.

---------- Post added at 17:12 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------

Not free, the entire Mobility component of DLA/PIP is used to pay for it. And that's usually just a basic car. If you want something more expensive, or modified for your use you have to pay the difference

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

An how many people ensure they don't earn a penny over £16k, our friend has jobs offering full time hours but applicants only want 24 hours so they don't loose benefits.

Benefits are a safety net, if you can work full time and fund your lifestyle you should. Benefits shouldn't be part of the decision making process. If at full time you still need help that's fine, but working as little as possible to keep benefits is an abuse.

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------

If I want a car I have to pay for it, if I want a nicer car I have to use a larger chunk of my wages to pay for it. Using money you're given for free to get a car still means the car is entirely free.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

oh dear, make yourself feel better time is it just to pretend only fraudsters are affected?

For a start I can put your claim to shame by confirming I dont know anyone abusing the system.

I think the truth is more like part of the reason people are not bothered is (a) they themselves are not personally affected (yes we live in a self first society these days) and (b) they have been led to believe by propaganda that there is a huge amount of people fiddling the system.

On the other hand I know personally probably half a dozen business owners who hide profits down the back of the sofa etc. to avoid paying taxes.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

You're not really being 'punished' though are you? You're paying what's reasonable given your above average ( yes £31k is way above) income, as I presume you're a civilsed
person who wants the vulnerable protected. Its the disabled being punished. This money is for things like basic toilet and dressing needs. George is raiding this so so called 'middle/daily mail' earners can have a few extra Euros holiday money.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Mr K, I think he is one of those who want a communist tax system to fit a capitalism wage system. He will never be convinced otherwise.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

He earns his wages he is entitled to keep them, Work hard to earn more. Not work hard to give away more.

It seems some want a unfair benefits system that should take as much as it wants from anyone trying to provide for themselves. But no one should take anything from the benefits system. My wages are MY WAGES, ITS MY MONEY I EARNED. You seem to struggle to grasp this fact.

You seem to think if I earn more it should be taken from me, an you seem to think this is fair. You're deluded.

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------

George is letting "earners" keep what THEY EARNED, you do grasp this fact don't you? George is saying "go to work and graft for 40/50/60 hours a week and you can enjoy the money you gave up so much to earn.

All those hours away from your family can never be given back, but you can enjoy your children with a few extra euros to buy your loved ones things you worked so hard to provide.

Once again we see the whole people on benefits should be able to afford everything but workers shouldn't be able to enjoy the benefits of hard work.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

And that in a nutshell is the problem. :tu:

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Tweedle its the law of the land that if you in a privileged position to earn more then you contribute more in taxes.

Work hard earn more, yes, although that can only really apply to hours worked rather than the pay per hour. The hardest job I have ever done was also ironically my lowest paid job.

Unpaid taxes is just as bad as the benefit fraud you make noises about. You think you just keeping hold of your money but you not, you withholding money from the state.

Not to mention there is people on disability benefits with conditions that were caused by "working hard", there is such as thing as working too hard.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

You think working hard spending most of the week away from loved ones is privileged? Seriously? Seeing your family for the final 4 or 5 hours of the day is now privileged? Coming in from work tired, grabbing a shower and something to eat then going to bed is NOW F$%^KING PRIVILEGED?!

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I think a balance needs to be struck.. While I don't want to punish those who genuinely need benefits, I've seen too many people that are on benefits walking around in labels (I know one who won't wear any clothes that are not from a label), £150 trainers and driving new BMWs. I'm not saying everyone does that. They don't, but I know people on benefits who have a higher disposable income than I do, and I am one of the people in the 30 to 40k bracket.

TBH, I do get angry why I see people who only bother to work when sanctioned by the DWP, and spend most of their days on the PS4, yet can still afford to buy £200 trainers, designer label clothes and state of the art home entertainment when I work and can only afford to go to Primark and can't afford a new TV (although my 2011 Samsung is still fine) because I have to pay all my own bills.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Also the time you spend away from loved ones has a value,

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I think to even have a job is privileged given there isnt enough (paid) work to go round the whole population, to be on a well above average wage is most definitely privileged, I also happen to think this myth that I earn more than you must mean I work harder is a load of crap, and whats with your tone, you need to see a shrink if you need to make lies about claimants and think your own welfare is all that matters.

Having been in both sides of the fence I can say without a doubt when I was doing 72 hours a week 12 hour shifts, it was a much easier life than when I was on incapacity benefit, no question about it. Have you been on both sides of the fence? Not to mention that wasnt a well paid job and I still consider it a much better part of my life.

Oh and about loved ones, some people are so disabled they will have almost no chance of having their own children.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

My own welfare and that of my family are first and foremost to me, but your above comment now leaves me with no option than as to ignore everything else you say.

Personal attacks are typical left wing tactics. I'm not racist, I do my bit, An I go out my way to help. I'm very happy. Oh, and I don't need a shrink, but thanks for showing your true colours.

Your out of date nonsense arguments have no value, but you're free to keep whinging.

Oh an go look into how many unfilled job vacancies there is currently in the UK, You'll find there are plenty.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

The problem there is that the kinds of people who are mega rich, or the companies (such as Apple, Amazon, Starbucks and Facebook) can afford expensive lawyers. As such, the Government, before they can take action, need to ensure that any laws they are going to rely on are watertight (which takes time).

That's not to excuse the "deals" they have made though, as while these look impressive, we still lose out.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Probably shoplifted or brought on credit that they will default on, because lets be realistic, 70 quid a week dole money isnt going to buy you labeled clothes. Might even be fake labels.

I also would love to know how people know someone walking down the street is on benefits or not, I can say when I was on unemployment benefits I certainly didnt advertise it. This is what makes it so hard to believe, not to mention a wealthy person who supposedly has benefit claimants as a neighbour in the same area.

Lets put things into perspective, even tho I work again (from home), I am still without luxuries in life that others take for granted, such as going for walks, bike riding, social events, date's etc.

The fraud I do know that goes on is some people on the dole will carry on claiming it even if they have a job, that is something I did myself once when I had a extremely low paid job, there was a period of time in Leicester where dole claimants didnt need to sign on, so I "forgot" to inform the DWP I had a job.

After about 3 months tho I felt guilty so walked up to the desk and confessed, the lady looked away pretending she didnt hear me, so I walked out again and closed the claim by post.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Holy crap, so benefits claimants are now shop lifters? You really are a piece of work!

I know you wil struggle to understand this, but "nasty" "selfish" "uncaring" they have been used to much and have lost any meaning.

Tell me I'm nasty and I will simply say...............I'm not. But you defrauded the benefit system , you're the lowest of the low. You took money from the genuinely needy, an you did this for 3 months, knowing full well the genuinely needy would have to go without.

Your low paid job would of been topped up with tax credits but I guess this wasn't enough for you so you defrauded the benefit system. But I must ask, what year did you do this what hourly rate were you on and how many hours did you work?

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------


I ask again, what year did you do this, what hourly rate were you on, how many hours did you work? How nasty must you be to defraud the needy of much needed funds.

EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm struggling with this, you've branded benefits claimers "probably shop lifters" and you've taken money from the poorest and most needy in society. I just cannot understand such a nasty selfish way of living.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Tweedle I am merely making the point that its more likely those clothes were not paid for in cash than they were.

So yes could have been shoplifted, on credit, gift from friends/family.

We are talking about fraud when the reason for these cuts has already been given, and of course no surprise its not to do with fraud, they admitted PIP been introduced was to cut costs, that was its intended purpose, those cuts would be achieved by making it harder to qualify on mobility grounds, its worth pointing out here that it is extremely hard to qualify for PIP for mobility, the criteria is extremely strict. Its very possible that someone can have very limited mobility but not qualify for PIP on mobility grounds, especually with how mobility aids are treated. The way they intend to achieve these cuts is basically by moving goalposts, so the qualifying criteria, this is because the DWP have been losing too many tribunal cases, which in short means PIP hasnt achieved the cuts it was targeted to make, thats it really, nothing to do with fraud.

Of course fraud was brought into this conversation because it makes the cuts seem more morally sound if we all think legit disabled people are not affected by it.

Tweedle, you are one for dishing it out, its as if you wasnt expected it to come back at you.

This is just the tip of the iceberg as well, there is cuts nationwide for council run services that are aimed to help vulnerable people due to how much this government is squeezing council budgets and tying their hands in tax rises. Obviously I am going to be upset whilst we have a government that is claiming to be broke, yet is dishing out tax cuts to the middle class and spending billions on foreign aid.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I'm sorry but you are one of the people responsable for the cuts, you knowingly and willingly stole from a system already under strain.

I ask again, what year did you defraud the benefits system, what was your hourly wage, how many hours did you work? Claiming to be broke whilst you actually had a wage coming in is upsetting to the genuine claimants.

You genuinely don't seem to understand the money you stole may of saved a life, helped a genuine needy person, funded a project to help the poorest in society.

How much of a low life are you? I pay as much as £250 in a single week in tax, an my wife more some weeks. An you tell us we should pay more whilst you steal money from the needy? You really help the case for the lefties.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Lefties are not all Tea leafs.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Indeed Richard and likewise not all righties are idiots or nasty Tories but the trouble is some try to stereotype certain groups but someone with a bit of intelligence and who is of rational thought would not think like that generally...

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Only a fool would think all lefties are "Tea Leafs" just like only a fool would think all righties are "nasty an selfish" I am sure you will agree.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I see your point but we really should avoid quoting numbers regarding our respective tax bills.

----

FWIW I have no issues with the taxes I pay but would prefer our welfare system to be far more contributory, and for our taxation system to be dramatically simplified and have the anomalies and various 'humps' in the progressive rates removed. Contribution based would get shot of at least some of the issues of generations of families living off welfare.

I'm very unhappy with the level of cuts being handed down by the government. It is doing some hideous things to my local area.

I dislike how much taxation in the UK is skewed to income rather than wealth, we should be taxing unproductive activities, not productive and gainful employment, more.

Tempted as I am to go through the past couple of pages and pick holes in contradictions and frankly extreme statements made I'll pass.

If all this makes me some 'socialist' who wants to steal other people's income and redistribute it so be it. I don't want a pay as you go state, I want a fair and reasonable one at both ends of the income scale. Increased equality can actually have a dramatic effect on the vast majority of incomes and outcomes.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

No, not all 'righties' are nasty and selfish, I'm sure there are exceptions, somewhere ;)
Anyway, I think we're getting away from George's incompetence. 6 years in the job, still cutting, little sign of growth or wage rises and we're on the brink of another downturn. Everyone, including his own party is sick of him. Continually targetting the disabled is reaching a new low. To repeat, this isn't to save money to square his dodgy books, its for a money give away to those that don't need it and who it will make little difference to. This isn't the time to be cutting taxes, he's putting his own PM ambitions before the good of the country.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

So basically people on the higher rate of disability get money to live on and then get enough extra money to afford a car ,a new car that is renewed every 3 yrs .I don't suppose you can see anything wrong with that system ?

---------- Post added at 08:26 ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 ----------

Of course i want the vulnerable protected but not to the detriment of another class of society .For years Labour used the working man as a cash cow until in the end it simply was not worth some people going to work at all .We ended up with a ridiculous system (tax credits) that rewarded people for working less hours ,this has to stop .

---------- Post added at 08:30 ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 ----------

No i want a fairer system that rewards those that make it possible for vulnerable people to have some kind of quality of life .Creating hardship or unfairness for those who pay the most in taxes will only split society more than Labour did

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

From you, this wins the Nobel Prize in Hypocrisy

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

This is the problem in a nutshell .You seem to have the idea that working for a living is a privilege ,we live in a society that ,thanks to Labours ineptitude,thinks that having a job and being able to support ourselves is a privilege.

---------- Post added at 08:57 ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 ----------

Of course it was ,i pretty sure saving money is part of the reasoning behind all the cuts ,that has never been a secret .The problem is that some members of society such as yourself see nothing wrong with spending increasing billions on largely unproductive members of that society .
It's probably a good time to mention that Dame Anne Begg ,former Labour MP and chairwoman of the work and pensions committee thinks the plan is "sensible"

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I also agree with this approach to taxation. The problem we have is that too many of the voting population would not agree with you.

Since the early 80's, people have been conditioned to think all taxation is "bad" and any wealth you may accrue, by whatever means, is yours and only yours. The concept of "earning" wealth is so devalued: if you can make money, by whatever means, then this is considered earnings when, in the wider scheme of things, these monies may just be generated through luck, position or privilege.

If you asked most people: "would you be willing to pay more tax to provide more social services, better long term infrastructure, etc.", the answer would be a significant majority "No".

If you asked: "Is the current wealth disparity a good thing for society in the long term", you would also probably get a "Yes".

Contrast the same questions in the Scandinavian countries where the opposite would be true. I believe we now live a basically selfish society here in the UK, me above us and what is mine stays mine .. at all costs.

Cameron's cuts are closing children centres .. no one commented or cared. I know most of you voted for Cameron so answer me this: when the current cuts and the new ones pending from the new Budget start to roll out, what will it take before you realise this has gone too far? When you are directly affected, when your relatives are affected? Where is the red line here?

Of course, saying things like this will not lead to meaningful debate, just "lefty" remarks but it still needs to be said ..

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Problem is that most of those "childrens centers" where opened under a Labour government using money we did not have ,a policy that Labour has now said was wrong ,indeed John McDonnell(shadow chancellor) said only yesterday that Labour needs to regain the public trust on it's spending policies ,he says that safeguards must be put in place to stop any future Labour government overspending .

Simple answer to that is because in 1979 the standard income tax rate under the then Labour government was 33% and the higher rate was 80% ,we had at the time some of the most punitive tax rates in the world

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Ok, you are happy for children centres to go because they were created by Labour. What about services that Labour did not instigate?

---------- Post added at 10:36 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

This is not an answer for the problems today. This was 38 years ago, almost two generations ..

---------- Post added at 10:52 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------

from: https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...lgg-conference

Quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim Loughton, at the time Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Children and Families ..

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Nicola Sturgeon on Sunday politics saying Scotland will deal with their deficit the same way the rest of the U.K. has dealt with theirs. So basically admitting cuts will be needed.

When the point was put forward to balance the books Scotland would have to either raise taxes by 16% or make cuts of 14% of spending. She had nothing to say.......

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

We;; after yesterdays announcements by her about increased NHS funds and giving families on low income and youg children more money, I would love to know where this is all going to come from!

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

It's going to be coming from your wage packet, and silly amounts of borrowing.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

DLA is paid is 2 parts: Care and Mobility. Only those with the highest Mobility payment qualify for Motability access, and getting that level is hard to get and is getting much harder. They can use the money to pay for other transport costs (often taxis) or the option of a new lease car or a used car (both of which may require modification at own cost). The restrictions on the lease car are getting tighter and tighter (limited mileage, and fines for the condition of the car falling below 100%... every little dink and scratch must be repaired). The old 3 wheel mobility scooters disappeared as they were considered too dangerous. Many rely on adapted vehicles to get to places of work or education, as public transport is either impossible to use or doesn't exist. And of that number, more and more are being denied the Higher Mobility component therefore having a severe barrier against them integrating with society.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Taf you're wasting your time pal, sadly IDS & conservatism is general has done a really good job of demonising all aspects of JSA/ESA/DSA so now everyone just considers people in those categories pond ****, add that all this nonsense about all of these people having 50 inch TV's £150 trainers, brand new BMW's etc and there's a nice handy societal scapegoat for everyone to focus on whilst darker stuff goes by unnoticed.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I'm afraid you're 100% wrong, no one likes the cuts but if the gravey boat is empty then cuts are going to happen. How would you deal with the current situation.

Instead of cuts what is your answer? I give plenty to the needy via my taxes but there is no room left for me to give more from my pay packet I'm afraid. All the people you declare as uncaring are the ones paying to help the needy an they pay every week, week in week out without complaint. But we have given all we can I'm sorry to say.

An by the way telling workers they are selfish uncaring nasty right wing haters has lost its effect. You've used it a little too often. We care we help, we try our best, but there is nothing left to give.

But feel free to march on London , **** up banks and throw paint at government buildings. You won't change anything.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

This was over 10 years ago and I learnt the error of my ways, at least I am honest.

If you paying £250 a week in tax then it also means you taking home a fair chunk of change. Which raises the question why you have no room for higher taxes, suggesting you living above your means or not telling the whole truth, taxes as far as income goes are at a very low level compared to historical averages.

Are you trying to tell me you think someone on 10k a year paying no income tax is better off than someone on 50k a year paying higher levels of tax?

Also well done to ignition, someone who is on a decent salary been happy to pay more tax so the system doesnt collapse around us.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Of course that is exactly what i said :rolleyes:
I would have been happy for Labour to have given some thought as to how all the giveaways and freebies they introduced to ensure 13yrs of power where going to be paid for ,sadly that wasn't the case so now it all has to be paid for all you labour luvvies are crying because any future government including a Labour one will have to take most it away

It is a reason why most people do not trust Labour with the economy .After the '70's disaster they where given another chance and made exactly the same mess again the only difference now is that some Labour MP's realize they cannot be trusted with the economy.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Why would I march on anything, I'm not a lefty, I'm simply pointing out that persecuting and demonising a certain segment of society multiple times isn't the mark of a good government, I don't think you really read my post, try again.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Who is demonising them? Your hyperbole is getting boring.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Well said. Don't forget the right wing media to that list .. :)

.. but, hey, maybe people want the "darker" stuff, they did vote for it after all.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

What darker stuff?

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Ask techguyone ...

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I asked you.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Have you never wondered why Osborne was nowhere to be seen the day Kennedy was killed? Interesting isn't it?

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

your not fooling anyone pretending you have no knowledge of "darker stuff":)

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I am not sure Osbourne was created ^H^H^H born then :)

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

So there is no "darker stuff"? Just made up nonsense as usual?

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

your doing a great job denying it we must avoid all forms of dark chatter, trust no one ;)

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Need to know .. if you don't know then you don't need to .. as Papa says trust no one. I wasn't here, right?

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

It's actually well known fact now that George Osborne was the Babushka Lady.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I can see the resemblence now:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2016/03/11.jpg

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

If only we had a man on the inside , damn and wallop!

I'm assuming since most of the "anti cuts" arguments have been killed with common sense and fact you're now simply going to revert to total nonsense?

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

The point is not whether cuts are still needed or not. They may well be because of George's failure with the economy. It's why he continually targets the disabled to pay for tax cuts for the well off (not to pay down the defecit!). I know the answer - its a nasty political move to reward supporters, and punish those that don't support him and are vulnerable. Even conservative voters I know are ashamed of this move and don't defend it. Politically George is a dead duck.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

No one says say "dead duck" anymore, the current phrase is a "Jeremy Corbyn".

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

This (and I don't normally agree with K)

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

The PIP review was indicated way back in 2012. The INDEPENDENT report that resulted was published in December 2014, more than a year ago.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

You always agree with Mr K lol, feel free to find anywhere on here you have disagreed with him.

There was a time I thought ,You, Mr K, Kursk, and ianch99 were the same person. As you all seemed to take it in turns to attack anyone who disagreed with you. You've all now stopped that as you've realised it was not helping you look fair and unbiased he he he.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

It's a fair cop, I am all those people ... aren't I? No wait, maybe I'm not .. then again .. ah, I give up ... who am I?

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

I am not sure how the fact that they have been planning it for a long time makes it any better?

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Whilst PIP was announced a few years ago, it's procedures and criteria have evolved rapidly from a simple name change to a very Draconian process of test, test and test again. Even for those disabled people who are obviously not going to improve.

Cameron always uses the soundbite "for those in most need" whilst the goalposts move further and further towards the extreme end of the disability spectrum. This is leaving a lot of very vulnerable people exposed.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi

I wonder what he would say about a nation that abandons its disabled members?

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

and this.

If George is the renowned expired duck then who would replace him that is not from the same policy direction? I have not heard Boris object to the austerity programme or has he?

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Where is this nation that abandons its disabled? It must be an awful place. Thank god in the UK the disabled will have homes to live in, warm food, free health care,


This nation you speak of sounds terrible.

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------


You have a freakish obsession with George Osbourne.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Meh, I actually started looking for posts where me & Mr K had clashed heads, then I thought sod this for a game of Soldiers, life's too short. It's probably fair to say it's quite unlikely I'll agree with much of the bs tweedle peddles though.

I'm only me, I'm not K or ianch, or Kursk though. Or Osem for that matter.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I'm always suspicious of independent panels, any idea who sat on it? Wonder if any of them were Gideon's chums :shocked:

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

No need to be so nasty, we're having a debate an we will disagree. But nastiness and bullying are not needed.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Well not everyone can be so gifted... :) ;)

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

If the Government could only be as obsessive about collecting tax as they are about cutting benefits for the disadvantaged section of society. Last time I looked, the best part of £34billion/year could go a long way towards negating the 'need' for the proposed benefit cuts while still giving George a few £'s for tax cuts and possibly even a bit left over to pay off some of the overdraft.

Sadly, until party funding is reformed it won't happen.

Cheers

Grim

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Vote for Corbyn - he'll sort out austerity.

:rofl:

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Nice try :) but this thread is about him ..

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:23 ----------

Now look what you have done ... :doh:

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

It is getting a bit depressing politicians rewarding their supporters at the expense of others. It was done by the coalition, it was done by the previous Labour administration, it's being done to maybe an even greater extent by the current government.

There are a bunch of things that should be fixed with regards to income tax, alongside a bunch of things that should be fixed with regards to wealth taxes, however the current administration's client group pretty much precludes shifting the burden from earned to unearned income.

The Chancellor is an excellent politician however the politics are far too evident in his handling of the economy and here comes the fallout. He's constantly taking his own flexibility away to score political points with things like the triple lock on pensions, the commitment to running a surplus in 'normal' times, etc. The down side being whenever things don't go his way, which is pretty often as he seems to have little clue what he's doing, it's panic stations.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Just waiting for the poo to hit the fan. £4 billion more cuts by 2020! We are living beyond are means (apparently).

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Well some are living beyond their means. Georges policies mean the gap between rich and poor is widening all the time. He'll inflict the cuts on the poor anyway, any surplus he'll give to the rich.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10097038.html

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Well you should be hoping that at some point this country gets a credible opposition party. Not one that has a leader that had already set his policies and beliefs long before getting to the top of his party. An who once objected to both sides of an argument lol.

An now seems to stubborn or stupid to change. Until your beloved Labour get a credible leader I'm afraid you're going to have to sit back an watch the Torys do as they please.

An worse still the Corbyn faithful genuinely believe he can when elections so won't replace him. No one benefits from a weak clueless opposition party.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Linky

Funny sort of giving to the rich seeing as their contribution to income tax has relentlessly risen over the last two decades. :confused:

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

You make too many assumptions twaddle, I've never voted Labour (although, that's mainly due to the constituency I'm in, and our farcical voting system). A system that also means George could be PM without any say so from the public.

Yes I'm afraid the Tories have carte blanche for the next 4 years and the public only have themselves to blame.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I suspect it will at least another 2 elections before Labour can get any kind of credibility back. An nasty name calling and mean spirited replies are not needed.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

I'm sure you know it's a tad more complicated than that.

Include things like indirect taxation into the equation, something that governments have been abusing more and more as the years have gone on, and compensate for any increases in income and wealth equality, then see how we are.

It's actually an abysmal failure of the system if the top 1% are contributing so much of the taxation. Shows there's far too much income concentrated at the top. The tax base should be broader.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

yep these figures that show how much tax is paid by the richest, only really highlights how imbalanced income levels are.

Personally I dont have an issue with people getting as much salary as they can get from their job, my issue is really when the rich start complaining they not well off and need tax cuts, thats what I dont like. Then of course these tax cuts have to be funded, the target is usually the silent part of the population.

I used to claim DLA, but I havent bothered with PIP, even tho the amount of distance I can walk without a problem is very crippling, I am pretty sure the current redefined criteria I would be found not immobile enough to be considered in need of mobility payments (yes I spend a ton of cash on taxis). e.g. if someone can walk say 30 metres, they are apparently not severely affected, yet someone who is deemed able to walk lets say 20 meters is. In reality the difference between 20 and 30m is a few steps and both people are as disabled as each other, but there is this line that treats them very differently, as time has moved forward the line moves closer and closer to 0m. Its all really cost cutting and nothing more, instead of having a target for the affect on the individual it is a financial target, and the line is adjusted as required to hit that target.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

Now Osborne (Mr Bean) has or will allocate millions for infrastructure projects... were the hell has or will this money come from!

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

George has ways and means e.g. Borrowing, the nhs budget, the disabled etc.

It certainly won't be coming out of his pay or his tax - in fact he'll be giving himself a tax cut, which is nice...

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2016/03/10.jpg

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

According to R4 this morning El Gov will borrow some at very low interest rates in order to lever money from pension funds. At the moment these funds are finding good returns on their normal investments hard to find and are increasingly turning to infrastructure projects where returns are better than the stock markets or bonds.

Let's hope this isn't another PFI scheme that will cost us dear in the next decade or two.

This borrowing does not add to the structural deficit that has to be reduced by cuts or more taxes.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

PFI is where the companies that do the construction etc do the borrowing and pass on the "costs". This is direct borrowing by government.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

My bad. I was wondering where the "catch" was in this method of financing and used PFI as an example. Should have made that clear.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

As I understand , PFI is fine (in theory). Note, I said "in theory"...

The problem is (according the past Private Eye print editions) that the Government often uses lax controls on the scheme, and the Treasury agreed to pay incredibly high interest rates on a lot of the schemes.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

George has never been very good at spending money to stimulate growth. Think it goes against the grain (bet he make the Mrs. shop at Aldi's too). However cutting to kill any recovery off he's expert at.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

This wont affect Osborne but a successor in the future. As per: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...rt_2014-15.pdf

While of course a simplification, it means that the average bond sold to investors will mature in 8.9 years. So, given the fact these bonds will likely be sold again, the trick is to hope we have an improved economy that can pay higher interest rates, or that the rates we pay stay at these low levels.

As the yield on 10yr bonds is currently around 1.5% (see here: http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rat...nment-bonds/uk ), it pays for the govenment to borrow at this time as they actually pay less than the current rate economic growth less inflation in the country at present. Again, a gross oversimplication and I can already hear economists wanting to kill me, but basically if you sell a bond at 2%, and grow an economy (And thus, tax returns etc) by 3%, you win.

So while the UK still has a pretty large (5% wasn't it at the last count?) defecit, it isn't as bad as it could be, although not ideal. Frankly cutting spending isn't the only weapon in the arsenal though, some taxes need to be raised. It wont happen, because that'll go down faster than a lead balloon on Venus but we have actually see massive tax giveaways due to the consistent raising of tax thresholds and the impact of the living wage cannot come soon enough for the treasury.

Until then? I wonder if Osborne is brave enough to chuck a bit on fuel duty. Petrol prices while not exactly cheap, are lower adjusted for inflation for over 5 years so maybe, just maybe he could get a billion or two by a hike. If I was him, I'd put a "brake" on it though, that would cancel the rise if prices (And thus VAT receipts) go high enough to recoup the currently lost revenues.

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6934531.html

Well there's a surprise, George takes from the disabled to give to the rich. It is true that those on >£43k, have had a tough time of it lately, so fair enough to cut their tax I guess. The reason there isn't more of an uproar because nobody expects any different from him/the Tories any longer. This country is going the way of the USA, incredibly divided, which is to no ones benefit in the long run.

Future possible world leaders Trump and Osborne :shocked: - there i've scared everyone now...

Re: More cuts from failing Osborne
 

America is not divided, but feel free to provide evidence it is, beyond normal political differences . Britain is not divided, but please do provide evidence it is, beyond normal British political differences.

I'm looking forward to you ignoring me an not providing any evidence as you know you're wrong.