re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Lenny Henry is funnier than you.


Unless you're Lenny Henry.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

He's funny.
I like when he does his mum.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Bozo, front of the queue spaffing of in Latin to boot

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I mean if Scotland had got/get independence then we would be in the eu on our own.then brussells could "bribe"/help us financially as long as we voted as they directed us to.which we undoubtedly would with the snp in government..romania and Bulgaria do not have any money to bribe anybody.they need the eu gravy train to keep them fiscally solvent so they to will do as directed by brussells.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Helle Kinnock's political career has finally reverted to type.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33171549

With her centre-left government kicked out of power, Denmark will now be ruled by a right-wing, really rather Eurosceptic coalition. Looks like Cameron is about to get his first renegotiation ally.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Paywall linky

The "NO" campaign getting into gear early as they know that Cameron won't get any serious changes to our relationship with the EU.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Let's hope so. There's clearly growing resentment throughout Europe and the refusal to address it is only going to make things worse and could lead to big trouble.

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 ----------

It's a measure of the denial within the EU's upper echelons that they continue to refuse any meaningful reform, preferring to carry on regardless. I really don't understand how they can be so blinkered and entrenched in spite of the obvious reality that the EU cannot continue in anything like its present form. I wish it wasn't the case but IMHO the EU is like a fuel laden supertanker heading towards rocks and the captain is insisting they move out of his way...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Both the Yes campaigns and No campaigns have started organizing. I don't think either were going to wait. The people running these campaigns are committed to their cause irrespective of the result of any changes.

It's really a blow to Cameron until more senior figures break from the 'awaiting the result of the renegotiation line' and back the No campaign. The Electoral commission still has to decide which campaigns qualify as the 'official' ones as well.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's going to be a blow for us all if we don't have accurate information on which to base the decision we're being asked to make. The stakes are huge and I'd hate to feel we'd been misled into staying or leaving but maybe that's inevitable. :shrug:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Same as anything else.

Who would you trust to give an unbiased view of the facts? Even if someone did attempt it then it would be labelled as biased by either side. If the facts are rock solid then they'll say they left out other facts.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Although not perfect by any mean, some organisation which isn't part of the EU would be a good start I'd have thought. I'd expect the pros and cons to be examined and explained, not just a presentation of one side or the other.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Say the BBC did it?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

TBH I'd have more faith in them than if it came from a govt. minister because at least they attempt to explain both sides. Having said that I'd like to know that the data being presented came from independent sources and then listen to debate on the pros and cons.

As I've stated a few times before, I'd prefer us to be part of a reformed EU and we'll soon see whether the EU has any intention of changing anything. I fear that significant change will be impossible, however, so then it'd come down to a judgement as to where we'd be better off on the balance of probabilities as I see it.

I really do wish we could have enjoyed the best of Europe in a less stringent and formal manner without the obsession with ever closer union, a single currency and a single state.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

NO WAY! The BBC is wedded to the EU and will be biased as hell all through the lead up to the referendum. Mark my words well.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

:tu:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

We're never going to get entirely unbiased information so the best we can hope for is something which at least presents both sides of the argument in a meaningful way - albeit with a possible bias one way or the other. It'll be up to use then to make of it what we can and decide which box to tick. Maybe the Greek tragedy will have concluded by then and the way forward (or not) for the EU will be clearer.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yep. I was chuffed about that result :tu:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Any result that removes a Kinnock from power is a good result I reckon... :D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Linky

So a secret stitch up with Merkel and then emerging Chamberlain-like waving a piece of paper and claiming he's got a good deal.:rolleyes:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Not sure that'll work. It's a big gamble...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The head of No is proposing another referendum over the terms of exit in the event of them winning the referendum: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeeh...o-referendums/

The idea being that it would prevent the No vote being a risk as you'll always be able to vote again in a few months whereas Yes would be final. Another way of looking at it is that they don't have the power not the obligation to actually hold another referendum and may take that No vote as final.

Plus it's bloody stupid and just prolongs the amount of time spent dealing with this issue. Like the Scottish Referendum we should make a decision then get on with it. We can't spend the years obsessing over Europe.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

We've been doing that ever since we found out we hadn't just signed up for EEC but had been dragged into the EU behind our backs. I'm not sure the Scottish referendum has been laid to rest either.

There's no easy or risk free way to proceed on this and the stakes are high. I wish I had some certainty as to the best way forward but I don't. It'd be a good sign if the EU had shown itself to be anything other than intransigent over reform but here we are, decades later, still waiting for reform of stuff like the CAP. As with issues like the Greece crisis, the EU's MO seems to be to equivocate and procrastinate on important matters as often and for as long as possible. They're like a giant version of TFL! Can an organisation like this be ever be reformed in an orderly manner? I have my doubts and I think that's what a lot of people who'll vote to leave will cite as their reasoning.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Uh Oh

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The problems appear to be mounting up quite quickly for him.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'd say the problems are mounting up for the EU. We're a net contributor remember.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I wish we could vote tomorrow and get it over and done with. The sooner we leave the sooner we get control of our borders back and don't have to hand over all that bloody money to the EU.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If we voted tomorrow it would be a 'Yes' to staying in by somewhere between 60-40 and 65-35.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That's the way l see it as well despite a very vocal minority wanting us to pull out of the EU.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Minority my rear end :LOL:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If Cameron comes back saying he's got everything he asked for I'll say he didn't ask for enough.

Minority? Polls have been wrong before. ;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I have been trying to work out how solid the numbers are. I think Yes will get a lot of Scotland, Wales and London so that would help. Also don't under estimate the fear factor. If people are generally happy with their prospects and current situation then they'll probably go the option of least change.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

What the yes campaign will not want is for us to have a quota forced on us by our EU overlords. If we are forced to take a large amount of these people coming from the Middle East and Africa and if it’s around the vote time then it could sway a lot of people to the No vote.

Thats where the immigration card will be used you can bet.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

David Cameron plans EU campaign focusing on 'risky' impact of UK exit.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...impact-uk-exit

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I believe Douglas Carswell told us exactly this quite some time ago.

This should be a surprise to no-one.

---------- Post added at 16:58 ---------- Previous post was at 16:56 ----------

Given the damage the CFP has done to Scotland's fishing industry I have no idea whatsoever why they are so pro-EU.

Wales I do get to an extent - they get £££ from the EU.

London it's obvious. It's a nation where half the population were not British born, and is full of the kind of big corporates that benefit from the EU's corporatist nature.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's up to Cameron to decide what he thinks it's right. It's up to us to decide whether we agree...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The pros and cons according to the Beeb:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32793642

How unbiased is this summary do you reckon? :confused:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Judging by the snippet you quoted ... Not very.

Quoting the size of the EU membership and using words like "hit" seems to be intended to emphasise difficulty.

I wonder whether the Beeb will also point out that the 27 remaining members of the EU would each also have very good reasons not to want to be "hit" with tariffs as they try to sell into the highly lucrative UK market ...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes the opening question seems to be rather loaded. Would the Beeb ever have posed it this way I wonder?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The BBC is no longer unbiased and has not been for a couple of years now.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

There, fixed it for you. :D

The news output does it quite subtly by relegating some stories, promoting others to headline status, limiting the time dedicated and the use of certain words and phrases. Current affairs though can be quite blatent.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Interested to know whether recent events in Europe have changed anyone's minds about how they'll vote when the time comes. I started out hoping that we'd be able to reform the EU sufficiently to make me want to stay in but all that's been happening in recent months has proved to me that the chances of meaningful reform are virtually zero and all we can do is get out and hope we're not dragged down with the wreckage.

The fact that the EU seems so unconcerned about the very real prospect of a major member leaving the club says a lot to me. They'd rather cut of their nose to spite their face in spite of the obvious need to address serious problems within.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I was always going to vote to get out of the EU, and with the situation going on just now, I very much believe it is a wise decision to make, We need out

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Lets face the public will vote however the govt. and their media friends tell them to, whatever opinion polls say now. The public are stupid like that. eg. the General Election, Scottish referendum and the PR referendum - voting was swayed by the media coverage. Governments don't hold referendums unless thay are assured of the outcome.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That's part of why I think we should stay, a deal like Norway got isn't an incentive to leave

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I think people have had enough and will stick to what they believe in this time,

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well if they don't vote to get out after all this chaos you'd have to wonder what might get them to do so. :erm:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I predict...

Cameron will ask for too little, not even get all of that - and still try and spin it as a success.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

'twas ever so. They go to Brussels and go native.

No matter what Cameron gets or even says he's got I'll vote to get out of the burning building.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's not wrong to want to stay in a reformed EU but I think the majority of people here now believe the EU is incapable of reform. They're just like Fifa FGS. They've lied and deluded themselves so often they maybe now they even believe their own nonsense and rhetoric. Cameron's inclination is to stay in but I can't see how he can come back from his 'negotiations' with little/nothing and present that as an unmitigated success worthy of our backing at the ballot box The fact that the EU won't negotiate on any of the key areas of reform which are required says it all about the head in the sand attitude which prevails in Brussels. As it stands that attitude is what a) will lead the UK to leave and b) result in the EU's demise. Our main concern must be how to limit the damage done to our economy when that happens.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I agree Osem,

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Same here, it would take a major change in the EU to make me vote to stay.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I can't see them changing enough to make me want to stay.
Even if we vote to get out, the EU won't let us leave. They will stop us leaving somehow. It's as simple as that.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's really very simple: You tear up the treaty of Rome on TV and then stop writing the cheques. That will bring them to the negotiating table PDQ.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It takes two years to leave the EU and costs an absolute fortune, it's designed to be sward so once your in you stay in

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Only if you play by the "rules"

As I say just stop writing the cheques.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It costs us a fortune to stay in and we'll be writing the cheques and suffering the Euro-madness in perpetuity. I know which option I prefer.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Indeed, Dave will make sure he gets the vote he wants and if by chance he does not he will hold referendum after referendum till he does.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

There is provision for it?! :shocked:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it.

Its not a simple Stay or Leave.

We need to be told in plain English what the pros & cons are, both sort & long term.

If its pain all the way then stay, but I can accept short term pain for long term gain.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:30 ----------

I did assume you were joking when you said that, doesn't strike me as a good idea if we want a deal on our terms or if we don't want the worst of what the EU scaremongerers predict to come true.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The outcome is a forgone conclusion; can't believe anybody thinks otherwise. Opinion may genuinely be 50/50 now, be it'll be a comfortable 'stay in' vote when it comes to it. The public are easily manipulated and scared of change.

Cameron, as we all know, will get nothing from the EU but pretend he has. All major parties will campaign to stay in, the media will do as their Tory bosses instruct when it comes to it. The undecided confused voters will vote for the status quo on the day as all sorts of scare stories will be circulated about the alternative - this always works as most of the British public are dim.

Total waste of time and money.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So most people are dim, except you and those who agree with you?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm not dim. and I agree with him.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Very few of us have doubts about the level of your intelligence, Gary...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

A lot of us are in no doubt about yours, Hugh :)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The problem is I think many people would want to stay in a European Union, just not this one.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

We need to get back our proper stiff British Passport and dump the limp wristed bus pass we use to travel.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Wrapped in leather, perfect for smacking johnny foreigner out of the way with when talking loudly and slowly at them didn't work

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You like Jack Dee as well :D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I could never remember where I heard that

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The reason for travelling "Imperialism"

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...-GE-chief.html

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Renegotiation is going well, then.

Hollande doesn't seem optimistic.
Indeed, integrate more or leave is his message.

Of course it'd help if Dave would stop dithering, trying to avoid the issue as we are all abundantly aware that he seems to have no intention of trying to renegotiate at any substantive level and is hoping for cosmetic changes to use to blag the voters into voting to stay in.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yeah, Jeff Immelt is not the EUs biggest fan after the EU expressed concern over GEs acquisition of Alstom, a French company which would give GE well over 50% of the global gas turbine business. GE has had to jump through many hoops to get the deal done because of pressure from Hitachi and Siemens

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Vote Leave campaign gets major funding boost:

Paywall link

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

... and the BBC is properly rattled. Their on-the-hour bulletins this morning on R2 have featured a 10-second read about the launch, followed by a somewhat longer interview clip in the form of an ode to the EU from a pro-EU businessman (the guy who founded Innocent Smoothies), who talks in general terms about how great the EU is but doesn't address the actual news story at all. Needless to say they don't quote anyone from the Vote Leave campaign.

It's the tightly edited, news-in-brief bulletins like this that really show you which side their bread is buttered.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

When they're in reciept of £millions in grants from the EU it's not surprising who's songsheet they'll be singing from.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

We what would you expect them to do with all that EU butter... ;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The total income of the BBC in 2014 was £5,066 million (licence fee and BBC Worldwide/other subsidiaries), and the funding from the EU was around £3 million (for work they do on behalf of EU in educating and helping other broadcasters in developing countries).

Do we really believe that a figure of less than 0.000588% of their budget would influence them that much?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes, they are supposed to be independent.

I hope during the EU campaign they refuse to accept that money because if they don't then how can we trust them. What they hell am i saying we cannot trust them anyway just like i don't trust Dave. :rolleyes:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I voted against staying in the common market back in '75 (we joined in '73) and will vote to come out if we ever get a referendum.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I never minded being in the common market but never envisaged it'd turn into a bloated 'superstate' * run by faceless suits and career politicians with their snouts in the euro-trough. Thank the lord we stayed out of the Euro.

* it's anything but 'super'...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The same doom sayers that said it would be a disaster to stay out of the Euro are the same doom sayers that say it would be a disaster to leave the EU.

Big industrialists who's only priority is their fat salaries and a never ending flow of cheap foreign labour to keep wages depressed.

They have no interest in the lives of normal people who's communities are being overrun by immigrants.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Dave's plan to stay in leaked

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-revealed.html

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So nothing about unrestrained immigration from within the EU. Pah! The rest of the EU will only give "concessions" if they're confident that they can still do what they want by other means.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...0&d=1444637911

Linky

:rofl:


Attachment 26370

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I can't see any realistic option except getting out of this madness before it's too late. They won't compromise and when their ship is sinking they'll still be rearranging the deckchairs deluding themselves that it'll all be OK...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well its seems one of the Prime Ministers supporters thinks very differently to some who want us out of the EU.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34502343

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...uart-Rose.html

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I don't know where Rose gets his £450 worth of benefits from the EU seeing as it's costing us £10's of billions net to be a member. He also calls leaving a "leap in the dark" and then says it will cost families £thousands. If it's in the dark then he cannot make that silly prediction. Nail hit squarely on the thumb.

No substance to the "IN" campaign just supposition and scare mongering. How long will it be before they start peddling the lie about 3 million jobs depending upon our membership of the EU when in fact those jobs only depend upon us trading with the EU and that's not going to change substantially whether we're in or out.

Far better to trade with the world that's growing than be shackeld to the dead EU corpse that's flatlined.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Shame all he appears to have to say consists of the same thinly veiled insults on 'Little Englanders' about how those who want out are inward-looking, which is ridiculous given the EU is, by design, inward-looking, and the usual scaremongery about imminent disaster in the case of Brexit.

Perhaps if they could provide a positive case for membership, one that doesn't use dubious stats from an organisation that said we'd be in huge trouble if we didn't join the Euro, or a case that doesn't operate on the absurd assumption that the other members of the EU will immediately break WTO rules alongside cutting their own throats by putting up huge tariffs and barriers to trade with the UK I could pay more attention.

As it is same old nonsense. I am increasingly feeling like the reason there has been no robust, positive case offered is simply because there is no robust, positive case for continued membership of the EU.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

"leaked"?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Does anyone think the chaos in the EU strengthens our position with respect to the current 'negotiations' or an inevitable distraction from them which could result in a stronger 'out' vote'? Although I've pretty much decided we need to get out, if we were going to stay in I'd prefer to do so with significant changes and would hate to think that we'd be left with the worst possible outcome which would be to remain in an unreformed EU carrying on regardless... :erm:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I believe the situation we have just now will help people to decide and vote NO, The EU is just a pure mess and where all these people are going to go is just madness, We need to get out .

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Given the response from the EU seems to be that the way to resolve the issues is more Europe no, not in the slightest.

The solution to every problem is always closer integration it seems.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm remembering the first referendum..and I'm pretty sure that TPTB have their fingers crossed behind their backs.We were lied to then and I suspect we will be lied to again.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

We went into a 'common market' and are now in (albeit not the Euro) a doomed superstate project. I just hope enough people can see that because, whilst leaving will create significant problems, staying in will be far worse. How many more crises does the EU have to create and mishandle before people say 'enough!'?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34664382

:scratch:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Is Dave actually in the right Iceland? and he's not just talking to the staff with his hands like he does ripping off Tony Blair who used to do it. and Dave started copying him because he thinks it makes him look sophisticated and clever?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

He'll sort of get what he's asking for because he's not asking for nearly enough. I don't care what he'll say he's achieved, it'll all be baloney. I know which way I'm voting.

Even more so because of the Europhiles scaremongering about Brexit without any cogent arguments for staying in the EU.

EU Myths and facts

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well a lot of that is also rather dubious. The amount of things they're passing off as certainties. I think this is the problem others have mentioned, it's hard to get a clear impression on what would happen or what we stand to gain or lose from leaving the EU.

The Economist had some clear arguments for the EU: http://www.economist.com/news/leader...173f4f0f060a07 although that isn't unbiased either.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The problem for me is the major downsides appear far more serious than the upsides. Please someone tell me the last time the EU covered itself with glory over anything resembling a major issue/emergency? The fact is it's too big, too complex and their are far too many conflicting interests for it to ever work and that's aside from the ridiculous single currency straightjacket.