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-   -   3 girls going to Syria (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33700220)

Damien 20-02-2019 22:41
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35983966)
And who is one Judge or Immigration Tribunal Judge(usually just a solicitor) to decide? The Judges of the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights have ruled on the matter.
They've ruled it's possible I guess, doesn't mean I have to agree that the Government can just say 'you're not British anymore'. Also I am pretty sure you can't make someone stateless so this decision will be reversed and the government knows it.

nomadking 20-02-2019 23:18
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35983967)
They've ruled it's possible I guess, doesn't mean I have to agree that the Government can just say 'you're not British anymore'. Also I am pretty sure you can't make someone stateless so this decision will be reversed and the government knows it.
Quote:
Ms Begum's mother is believed to be a Bangladeshi national, and lawyers have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law this means Ms Begum is automatically a citizen of the country as well.
...
Ms Begum's case is different. Her Bangladeshi citizenship, if established, would remain intact until she reaches 21, even if she has never visited the country or made active efforts to retain her citizenship.
Your route would still mean just one person deciding the matter, where it could be decided by someone like her lawyer.
Quote:
Shamima Begum's lawyer has previously shared posts suggesting that 9/11 was an inside job and that Amber Rudd should go to a 'concentration camp.'
Tasnime Akunjee, who is backing Ms Begum's efforts to return to Britain with her newborn son Jerah, shared the comments on his Facebook page.
In November Mr Akunjee posted the link to a story about former Home Secretary Amber Rudd after she made a speech about the state of poverty in Britain in her first Commons appearance as work and pensions secretary.
Quote:
He has previously defended one of Lee Rigby's killers, who acted to avenge the killing of Muslims by British armed forces.

TheDaddy 20-02-2019 23:37
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35983976)
Your route would still mean just one person deciding the matter, where it could be decided by someone like her lawyer.
Even the name she picked for the child is a pee take, why if she has mended her ways would she name him after a well known murderer of Jews

Sephiroth 22-02-2019 12:19
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
All of the above revelations about her make a case for bringing here back here to face justice. I doubt that her lawyer, if as extreme as described above, would cut much ice with a jury.

Her child is British and must be a serious consideration. She is stateless and must be given the benefit of the doubt on that.

I've no objection to the family's sincerity being test by getting them to pay for her return because she is safely ensconced right now in a refugee camp with nowhere else to go.

Javid is playing to the public vote and I find that disgraceful.



EDIT: Btw, if she comes back, she can provide valuable intelligence as to who radicalised her, for example.

nomadking 22-02-2019 12:38
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
She is not stateless. She has automatic Bangladeshi citizenship.


What crimes of any consequence has she committed in this country? She would just be set free, and that is exactly why certain people want, eg Corbyn.

mrmistoffelees 22-02-2019 12:45
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35984113)
She is not stateless. She has automatic Bangladeshi citizenship.


What crimes of any consequence has she committed in this country? She would just be set free, and that is exactly why certain people want, eg Corbyn.
She does not, according to the Bangladeshi ministry of foreign affairs

nomadking 22-02-2019 13:06
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35984114)
She does not, according to the Bangladeshi ministry of foreign affairs
Quote:
Expert lawyers with experience in Bangladeshi citizenship cases have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum, if born to a Bangladeshi parent, is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen. That means that such a person would have dual nationality.
If the person remains in the UK, their Bangladeshi citizenship remains in existence but dormant.
Citizenship and passports are different things. Eg I am a British citizen but would be completely unable to obtain a British passport.


Still leaves the unanswered question of what would she be charged with?

Sephiroth 22-02-2019 13:19
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
It'll need expert lawyers. Here is the "concentric" piece of Bangladeshi law that deals with Citizenship by Descent: http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/sections...ctions_id=7472

--------------------------------------
5. Subject to the provisions of section 3 a person born after the commencement of this Act, shall be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if his 1[ father or mother] is a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of his birth:

Provided that if the 2[ father or mother] of such person is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of Bangladesh by virtue of this section unless-

(a) that person's birth having occurred in a country outside Bangladesh the birth is registered at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country, or where there is no Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country at the prescribed Consulate or Mission or at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in the country nearest to that country; or

(b) that person's 3[ father or mother] is, at the time of the birth, in the service of any Government in Bangladesh.
--------------------------------------

nomadking 22-02-2019 13:29
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35984118)
It'll need expert lawyers. Here is the "concentric" piece of Bangladeshi law that deals with Citizenship by Descent: http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/sections...ctions_id=7472

--------------------------------------
5. Subject to the provisions of section 3 a person born after the commencement of this Act, shall be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if his 1[ father or mother] is a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of his birth:

Provided that if the 2[ father or mother] of such person is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of Bangladesh by virtue of this section unless-

(a) that person's birth having occurred in a country outside Bangladesh the birth is registered at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country, or where there is no Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country at the prescribed Consulate or Mission or at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in the country nearest to that country; or

(b) that person's 3[ father or mother] is, at the time of the birth, in the service of any Government in Bangladesh.
--------------------------------------
So are both her parents only Bangladeshi by "descent only"? No sign of that being used as an argument, which suggests it isn't so.

Sephiroth 22-02-2019 13:34
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35984119)
So are both her parents only Bangladeshi by "descent only"? No sign of that being used as an argument, which suggests it isn't so.
Dunno. Probably not. I just put that out there so that there should be authoritative assessment.

I still think that she is our problem and she should not be dumped on a third country that is less equipped to deal with her than the UK.

nomadking 22-02-2019 13:49
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35984120)
Dunno. Probably not. I just put that out there so that there should be authoritative assessment.

I still think that she is our problem and she should not be dumped on a third country that is less equipped to deal with her than the UK.
And how are we equipped? We would let her go. The UK is the "third country" being dumped all over.

Sephiroth 22-02-2019 13:53
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35984122)
And how are we equipped? We would let her go. The UK is the "third country" being dumped all over.
Your last sentence isn't right for this case. She's a British subject and Javid is trying to dump her. She's our problem.

We are equipped with police, courts and solid laws. You have no idea as to whether or not she would go free. She's certainly be debriefed to gain information and our laws will catch her for going to ISIL.

nomadking 22-02-2019 14:12
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35984123)
Your last sentence isn't right for this case. She's a British subject and Javid is trying to dump her. She's our problem.

We are equipped with police, courts and solid laws. You have no idea as to whether or not she would go free. She's certainly be debriefed to gain information and our laws will catch her for going to ISIL.
Quote:
It has proven difficult to prosecute hundreds of people who have already returned to the UK from Isis territories, and it remains unclear whether any charges could be proven against Ms Begum.
More idea than you.

Hugh 22-02-2019 15:09
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35984126)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Your last sentence isn't right for this case. She's a British subject and Javid is trying to dump her. She's our problem.

We are equipped with police, courts and solid laws. You have no idea as to whether or not she would go free. She's certainly be debriefed to gain information and our laws will catch her for going to ISIL.
Quote:
Quote:It has proven difficult to prosecute hundreds of people who have already returned to the UK from Isis territories, and it remains unclear whether any charges could be proven against Ms Begum.
More idea than you.
You missed off the headline of that article you quoted
Quote:
Shamima Begum: British Isis member who fled to Syria 'has right to return to UK', security minister says

A British woman who joined Isis in Syria “has the right” to return to the UK despite admitting her involvement with the group, the security minister has said...

...”As a British citizen she has a right to come home here,” Ben Wallace told Sky News. “We are obliged to make sure our citizens have rights, no matter who they are.”

The security minister said Ms Begum would be investigated by counterterror police and prosecuted if there was proof of any criminal offences.
Do you think the U.K. Security Minister might have more of an idea than you?

nashville 22-02-2019 15:13
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
I cannot believe that some people think they should be brought back here , Maybe get punished and then put them back in society, They choose to go out and mix with terrorists who blow us up and cause havock. This was brought up in Question Time last night, . I could not believe some people who said she should be brought back because she is a British citizen , The government knows more about the situation and I agree with them to strip her of her citizenship . Let her and all the rest rot out there, We have had enough,

nomadking 22-02-2019 17:26
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35984135)
You missed off the headline of that article you quoted

Do you think the U.K. Security Minister might have more of an idea than you?
At that point(14th Feb), her UK citizenship hadn't been revoked. Once that happened the situation changed.

Chris 22-02-2019 17:50
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville (Post 35984136)
I cannot believe that some people think they should be brought back here , Maybe get punished and then put them back in society, They choose to go out and mix with terrorists who blow us up and cause havock. This was brought up in Question Time last night, . I could not believe some people who said she should be brought back because she is a British citizen , The government knows more about the situation and I agree with them to strip her of her citizenship . Let her and all the rest rot out there, We have had enough,
But why should she become Syria’s problem? Or Bangladesh’s? She is not presently a citizen of either, even if she has the right to request it.

She’s a security risk, but she’s our security risk. We don’t transport our criminals to the other side of the world any more. We owe it to ourselves and the world to clear this mess up, because it’s our mess whether we like it or not.

FWIW given the attention she’s now had, the chances of her presenting a security risk in future are slim, and there’s more to be gained by subjecting her to a no-holds-barred deradicalisation programme and then using her as an anti-Jihadi poster girl rather than have her acting like some sort of mirror universe Malala Yousefzai in exile.

Sephiroth 22-02-2019 17:59
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35984143)
But why should she become Syria’s problem? Or Bangladesh’s? She is not presently a citizen of either, even if she has the right to request it.

She’s a security risk, but she’s our security risk. We don’t transport our criminals to the other side of the world any more. We owe it to ourselves and the world to clear this mess up, because it’s our mess whether we like it or not.

FWIW given the attention she’s now had, the chances of her presenting a security risk in future are slim, and there’s more to be gained by subjecting her to a no-holds-barred deradicalisation programme and then using her as an anti-Jihadi poster girl rather than have her acting like some sort of mirror universe Malala Yousefzai in exile.
:clap::clap:

denphone 22-02-2019 21:54
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
“Jihadi Jack” wants to return to the UK as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...yria?CMP=fb_gu

Quote:
A second Briton who left to go to Syria has said he wanted to return to the UK. Jack Letts, who is suspected of joining Islamic State, said he missed Britain, but doubted he would ever be allowed to return.

RichardCoulter 23-02-2019 19:25
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Oh no, not another one :mad:

thenry 22-09-2025 16:06
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
Quote:
'Shamima Begum stormed out of my on-camera interview and it made me realise 1 thing'

Express reporter Richard Ashmore travelled to Syria to speak with Shamima Begum - but it did not go to plan

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...stormed-out-my
Interesting piece..

Quote:
She dismissively gave me ‘no comment’ answers when I asked about her chances of getting home, which could be higher now under Donald Trump than ever before.
Quote:
Has Shamima lost her mind? I don’t think so. But what can’t be denied anymore is that she and other Brits and foreigners held in Syria can’t stay there forever.

Like President Donald Trump’s administration has said, it may be time for Western nations to accept responsibility for our former citizens because quite frankly no one else wants them, and in my view, whatever your opinion about Shamima, the reality is she was born and raised in Britain.
Lost her mind? Her fellows were cutting people's heads off and putting them up in a Syrian roundabout. :shocked:

Chris 22-09-2025 17:30
Re: 3 girls going to Syria
 
How do you solve a problem like Shamima? As the song (almost) goes. She’s a problem, but she’s our problem. Here she was made, and only here can she be un-made. She needs brought home, given a long jail sentence and given long term intensive therapy.

Of course, should she ever come back to the UK, yooman-rites lawyers will try to prevent her getting her liberty curtailed at all. And if they fail and she does get locked up, the system would sooner forget about her than de-program her. And once she’s eventually roaming our streets, MI5 will decide she’s low enough priority not to bother keeping tabs on her. What happens after that is anyone’s guess.


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