Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Some of the people who cycle around London are from other (more forward-thinking) Countries in which cycling is given greater precedence in road strategies and practices. This, together with the fact that Britons tend to be inexplicably aggressive when they get behind the wheel, contributes to the potential for disaster.

It is not only 'stupid' cyclists that get killed by stupid motorists. Many motorists fail the rocket science test daily; it's just that for cyclists, and I accept that there are varying rider skill levels as there is driving ability, the result can be catastrophic.

No, it would be poor judgement. But then, town planners are guilty of poor judgement for not properly accommodating all road users within their designs. The result is bolt-on arrangements for cyclists that are just not good enough.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Have to agree with much of what you say.

When my father started teaching me to drive, well over 40 years ago, he said:

"Just remember that everyone on the road is an idiot, including you, and you won't go far wrong!"

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I think your sig sums it up rather well dave :)

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Of course not - it'd be ridiculous to assume that idiots only come on 2 wheels which I why I don't. The point is that, whoever's right or wrong, cyclists are far more vulnerable than any other road users so if their instinct for self preservation is serving them well you'd expect them to be far more careful on the roads than many of them actually are. The idiocy isn't limited to novice cyclists either - some of of the lycra clad 'tour de asphalt' brigade are the worst offenders and you'd really think they'd know better. Frankly I'd swap life for self righteousness any time and I just don't understand why you see so many cyclists make the most alarming decisions on busy roads. A car/bus/van/lorry driver may be just as stupid and/or inconsiderate but is far less likely to be injured in any contact with a cyclist and that might be why some of them act the way they do.

Town planning is of course a long term business and if they've got it so badly wrong in respect of motor vehicles, it's no great surprise that they haven't got to grips with the needs of a small group of road users which has only relatively recently started to grow. It'll take decades to sort out reasonable provision for cyclists so in the meantime they're going to need to do their utmost to protect their own interests by at least applying some common sense. It may not be fair but it it would be the prudent thing to do whilst awaiting more/better cycle routes.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I know that many motorists find assertive riding irritating. I know too that many motorists just do not want cyclists on the roads at all. Accidents will happen.

In the meantime cyclists should do their utmost to protect their own interests by applying the common sense rule of cycling on the pavement. Accidents will happen.

Cycling is a growing industry. Interest in it as a means of transport, improving health and well-being, interest in it as a sport, interest in returning to the less complicated days of yore are all on the up. We can't wait for Cities to be gradually redesigned; a radical approach is needed to pedestrianise/cyclise City Centres and designate specific arterial cycle only road routes asap.

I know you'll love it when it happens. And it will :)

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Large chunks of main roads here have been turned into bus lanes.

And now they have allowed cyclists to ride in the bus lanes. Result: traffic chaos as buses pull out of bus lanes occupied by cyclists; buses not keeping to schedule; cyclists happy with their extra wide "cycle lanes".

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I don't know whether you think I have a problem with cyclists but I can assure you I don't and it doesn't wind me up when another one gets crushed any more than when anyone else dies on our roads. This thread is about cyclists which is why I'm commenting on them and the idiocy some of them still insist on displaying, especially when they're fully aware that there are plenty of idiotic drivers out there who could kill them at any moment. I just find that very curious. How soon the required cycle routes in all our major towns and cities appear in sufficient numbers to affect the death toll will remain to be seen but since I never drive in C. London it won't affect me one jot.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I think you're overstating the chaos thing. Buses don't keep to schedule because there's too much motorised traffic not because they are hampered by cyclists.

I must be misinterpreting your comments which seem one-sided: "cyclists are idiots and that is why they die" is a point of view that misses the more complex state of affairs that is leading to an increasing number of cyclist deaths. I think something needs to be done other than saying "another idiot has died".

Did you see the open heart surgery undertaken by a doctor on a cyclist at the roadside on "an hour to save your life"? She was a young German girl who'd had her pelvis crushed by a lorry and she had internal bleeding that took her life. She was no idiot; she was a young and vibrant woman who died in a London gutter.

It can't go on.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

reading these cycling threads it seems to me quite clear that cycling past a lorry/bus/car on the left is a stupid move with a high chance of death or serious injury yet the message seems not to penetrate the cyclists attitude to road safety ,your right it cant go on why should motorists be subjected to this stupidity every day .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

The trouble is that a lot of cyclists (and motorists as well) seem to lack the ability to observe and any common sense.

Personally I fail to see how allowing cyclists to ignore red lights makes things any safer for them or other road users. They can still hit pedestrians or motorists who do have a green light.

The problem is road users (and I count all road users in this, including pedestrians) are often not aware of what other road users are doing. That's what causes a lot of accidents, whether you are on foot, on a bike or in some sort of motorised vehicle.

I will be happy to be proved wrong, but I don't see how allowing cyclists to ignore red lights is going to do anything but make that worse.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I agree. Starting immediately we should identify entire road routes reserved only for cyclists. This will separate the stupid from the stupid.

IMHO there are many circumstances in which a red light can be safely passed by a cautious cyclist. The French Government agree.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Not at all. The council, the bus company, bus drivers and the bus users group have all stated that allowing cyclists to use bus lanes has caused the flow of buses on bus lanes to be totally disrupted.

Calls to force buses to stay in buslanes have been ignored.

Calls to ban cyclists from buslanes have been ignored.

So if there are complaints coming from all directions, who is ignoring the calls for changes to the rules?

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

What works well in France does not necessarily work well over here. But there may be other factors in play. A lot of the cyclists I've dealt with in the past have been (I would argue) spectacularly unobservant. Not all, or, I'd argue, even most. But a significant number. I think ALL road users need to remember they aren't the only person on the road, so they need to be observant, alert (even to the point of following the highway code's advice about taking regular breaks on long journeys) and even courteous to other road users. It'll never happen, but I feel the roads would be so much safer if people were just polite to each other while using them.


The Telegraph makes the point (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ffic-laws.html) that the new law prevents cyclists bunching up at traffic lights then all going en masse when the light goes green. I can see how this would make things more dangerous for both cyclists and motorists, but outside of the major cities, how often do you see cyclists bunched up at the lights?

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Why do you feel buses ought to have priority of road usage? Is my cycle journey less important that someone who gets the bus? Nope.

The authorities need to get together and work out an alternative strategy that accommodates all road users, including cyclists.

We're all obliged to use the roads with the safety of others in mind. There are stupid cyclists, stupid motorists and stupid pedestrians; if we don't focus on the sensible majority nothing will ever get done.

A little more vision is needed. Cyclists are not going to disappear. They will always use the road network. If there needs to be changes to space sharing then nit picking small details won't be enough.

With cycling on the increase, radical reform of road use is necessary.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Yes you must be because you're missing out where I have qualified my views and pointed at that not all cyclists are idiots any more than all drivers are.

From my post:

Yes I did see that show, very moving it was too and I refer you to my previous comments one more time. I have no idea whether what she did on that day was idiotic and neither do you. Of course one, idiotic decision, doesn't make someone a complete idiot does it - you and I both know that. What you seem to be trying to do, however, is imply that I believe all cyclists are to blame when in fact I have never said, written or implied that so please desist.

Yes something does need to be done about this and at the top of the list is that cyclists need to take more responsibility for their own actions. That won't take years and £millions. It's not even radical. It could be done overnight if those involved wanted to do it. The results would be immediate and many of the fatalities and serious injuries which result from cyclists being invisible and vulnerable due to lack of lighting, proper clothing and headgear would be avoided. Now that really isn't stating that all cyclists are idiots and that nobody else is at fault. Neither is it implying that nothing else could/should be done to make our roads safer for all road users and pedestrians. It's merely pointing out that self preservation ought to be higher on the list of priorities for many cyclists than it is and that would be good for everyone.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I am simply addressing the anti-cycling theme of the thread; this often leads to collateral damage in my scatter gun defence. Please don't take it personally :).

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Absolutely - my driving instructor (many many moons ago) said "Look ahead and watch out for the idiots - remember other drivers will have had the same tip about you...".

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

It's hard not to take it personally when you were referring to what I'd written. ;)

Responsibility needs to be exercised on al sides but whilst anyone can just get on a bike and ride anywhere, with no training or knowledge of our roads and the highway code I'm surprised more cyclists aren't killed to be honest.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

In a previous post you accused me of writing 'puerile drivel' but, well, I took it on the chin. Man up: it's the cut and thrust of forum life. ;)

Luckily, motorists are trained to care for these innocents.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I do not, but someone, or some group, within the council, is trying very hard to make this city very anti-car and very pro-bus. And by now bowing to the demands of cyclists they have removed the main benefit of the bus lanes, namley mass public transport on dedicated lanes to allow them to run on time.

To do this they have, as I said before, taken up huge chunks of road-space for bus lanes.

And now they have closed the bus station, which is outside the main rail station, and taken up more road space for off-site bus "halts".

Not at all an integrated transport arrangement, but a disintegrated transport system.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

You wouldn't think so, if you drove down the A660 into Leeds each day - there is a cycle lane most of the way, but the very high number of motorists I see most days cutting into it, without looking to see if there is a cyclist close by, as they undertake because another car is turning right.

When I passed my driving test in West Berlin in the 70's, we were always taught to look over our right shoulder when turning, in case a cyclist was in your blind spot - neither of my kids were taught this in the UK.

Whilst some cyclists can be a PITA weaving in and out, we car-drivers have to bear in mind we can do a lot more damage to them than they can to us in the event of a collision.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Ok, but these are regional issues and it sounds as if there is a state of current flux that is inconveniencing all road user groups. All the more reason for it to be thought through and developed before any new system is established. Hopefully, cycling will feature as part of those discussions and not, as has been the case, thought about after the event.

Quite. It would be much better if we could get away from this 'them and us' stuff and try to come up with solutions rather than arguments.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

and they are idiots

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

In lots of states in the USA (and Canada), you can turn right on a stop-light (but you have to check for cyclists and pedestrians).

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

You're the one in the red tights mon ami :D

So we are way behind. No change there then.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

and what of the damage done to one's car by these irresponsible uninsured prats .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I have said this before. CYCLISTS are dangerous. Tonight for example, l was coming home from Northolt, l travel across the A40.

A cyclist cycled through a RED light onto a busy junction, people were tooting him, his reply was a four letter word, a police car went by did NOTHING.

They are a danger on the road, and the best laugh was last week in the West End, one of those three wheelers taxi things NO LIGHTS, going through traffic at 1030. I asked him where his lights were, as l couldn't see him - his reply was 'p=== off' you cannot win until the local authority start hitting them with tickets

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

It can be repaired - often the dead or very seriously injured can't be.

It's not equivalence - it's like bringing a Mac-10 to a fistfight; one side is going to lose badly.....

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Darwinism.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

No likey no lighty? :erm:

If your car is damaged, your car insurance will cover it. If you damage their bike, your car insurance will cover it. Who's uninsured? :D

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

the moral of this story is if you have a collision with a cyclist make sure you get your moneys worth ;)

---------- Post added at 07:27 ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 ----------

i wonder what the predicted extinction date is ?;)

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Well, I value a human life more than I value my car....

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

With me it's. You touch my car, You die.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Your Skoda is worth less than most modern bikes :D And injuries to a cyclist are going to cost you the value of your house. Good luck.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I was talking in general. not just bikes.
and besides dead men can't talk. and there won't be any witnesses :)

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Bit harsh on a 10 year old out on his first bike you brute ;).

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

well if you drive a banger ...

---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:18 ----------

i think you have to evaluate the situation ie car expensive and useful- cyclist no use to man nor beast net worth nil ;)

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I would hate to be in the position of having hurt, or worse, a cyclist through the cyclist's own fault.

Ditto a pedestrian.

A lot like a train driver who hits someone on the tracks.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

the thing is though they are like kamikaze pilots intent on committing pesticide er [suicide] they just launch themselves into the path of any oncoming vehicle .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I remember my father saying if it's a choice between a head-on and a cyclist. The cyclist gets it every time.:erm:

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Why don't cyclists use those cycle/pedestrian paths.

But instead ride nearly in the middle of the road:rolleyes:

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Because it is not compulsory to do so. Because the surface is frequently poorly maintained. Because drains and loose gravel are dangerous for cyclists. Because cyclists can cycle on any part of the road.

And because it is easier to get in the way of cars when ambling down the middle of the highway :D.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Because they're all a bunch of hippies that hate cars (but don't mind sitting in somebody elses to get places) so they hog the lanes to annoy car drivers (that the roads were made for) (I won't mention road tax)
and some of them have got cameras on their heads, on the front,rear, sides and underneath so they can film the chaos they cause and upload it to Youtube so their mates can have a giggle :D

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

because they are a bunch of morons with no regard for their own or any one else' s safety but have every excuse under the sun for for their acts of stupidity .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

That's not not true. You can can be very unfair at times. Just today I accidentally hit hit a wing wing mirror. My bad bad.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

And did you give your details to the owner of the vehicle so that he can make an insurance claim against you for the damage?

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Lycra lout ;)
but in your defense you left your contact details on a little note under the windscreen wiper because your a responsible cyclist .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I stuck to the game plan and threw myself to the floor. This panics motorists who think they're in for a physical injury claim. He couldn't get away quick enough and I was happy to let him go :D.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Because they are Mr Macho Man in their lycra tights..All they need is a cape and they resemble a super hero.

Anyway I resent the money spent in providing off the road cycle ways around here for the inconsiderate to completely ignore them.No need to worry about traffic,drains,kerbs and all the crap to be found in the gutter... just a special length of path all for cyclists alone built courtesy of the local tax payer. But that's not dangerous enough for them..they want to be Bradley Wiggins..
:rolleyes:

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I don't think I've seen many superheroes on pushbikes. Not even the invisible woman.

Roads are funded from general taxation (there's no such thing as road tax) so cyclists, who are also taxpayers, are entitled to expect some facilities for their contributions.

You're right that the cycle ways are not dangerous; it's the roads that are dangerous. Try to think it through :sleep:.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

we also have facilities for dead cyclists -mortuary's its just that some of us are trying to keep cyclists out of them... [isn't that selfish of us] .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

There may be no specific road tax but there is Vehicle Excise Duty which *is* commonly referred to as Road Tax. You are right, however, in that the money generated goes into general tax, rather than a road budget specifically.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

The irony is the cycle path was smooth as a babys bum, and empty.

The road was full of cars pump crap he could breathe in, and pot holes that could put him under the bloody big dumper trucks.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Yes, I know there is VED and it is commonly and inaccurately referred to as 'road tax'. VED is effectively a tax on the harmful emissions produced by motor vehicles and guess what, bikes produce no emissions therefore there is no tax to pay.

I think that puts to bed the notion that cyclists should pay 'road tax'; we already contribute to the upkeep of roads through general taxation.

Personal choice I suppose. That said, cycle paths aren't always the most convenient option; some can be a couple of metres long; some actually don't lead anywhere etc. Road networks need to be planned with cycle lanes included not added later.

Fair enough. No female superheroes then :)

Drive with respect and care in that case. Thank you for helping.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

hey no problem i will stop at green lights so morons can cross on the red light ,i won,t turn left any more so morons can undertake ,i wont use one way streets so morons can cycle up them the wrong way ,if there's any thing else i can do to assist these idiots let me know [but please be mindful that assisted suicide is frowned on in this country].

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Not ALL cyclists are idiots though!!

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I know you like scatterguns and have a problem with detail but so I'll just point out that the difference is that what you wrote was puerile drivel whereas you chose to misrepresent what I wrote despite me being quite clear. Suck that up! It's just the cut and thrust of forum life you know... ;)

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

You seem to exhibit few traits of a "trained" and "qualified" road user :monkey:.

Ouch, cut me to the bone. Let's make a deal, you write something that isn't mind-numbingly repetitive and I'll read the detail :sleep:.

Not ALL car drivers are idiots either!!

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Read what you like (or not as the case may be), just don't deliberately misrepresent it eh.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Dog with a bone :sleep:.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

quite true but the ones that aren't don,t seem to be posting in this thread .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Attrition may terminate conversations but it doesn't change minds.

Do enjoy the sight of my rear end out on the roads papa :p:.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

i watched a tv program last night on pick tv the title road rage i found the program very satisfying as the police in London are now equipped with bicycles with blues and two's and chase down red light jumping cyclists and issue a £30 fine, these cyclists became very irate when they found out they cannot disregard the highway code without punishment , these people where referred to by the police as "Lycra louts and anarchistic" with the intent of causing as much chaos as possible, but its not being tolerated anymore :clap: .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I watched that. the cyclists were intent on holding up the traffic saying "The roads are for everyone"
sad people :)

logically. today a lot of cyclist will fall off their bikes after that being aired last night.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Quite right too. There should also be litter police and misuse of mobiles when driving police and have you got your seatbelt on police and dogs pooing everywhere police and urinating up a lane police and oi you, don't spit your chewing gum on the pavement police and you can't get your tits out to breast feed in a public place police and...

Or should these little misdemeanours be overlooked in favour of actually catching real criminals? It's a thin blue line; I know what I'd rather they were doing :sleep:

ps The roads ARE for everyone.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

im with you on the chewing gum on the pavement but it should carry the death penalty .the rest is just drivel intended to take our eyes off the real problem arrogant cycling anarchists hell bent on ruining the road network .
ps the roads are for those who can obey the highway code .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Really? Get a sense of perspective ..

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Papa's bating me ianch99; it's all good clean fun but he's struggling a bit. C'mon Papa, you need to try harder or others will think you're a bit mental :D Don't expect me to save your bacon again.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

This seems to be an excellent idea which ought to be extended:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34115046

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

i watched this on the news this morning the police officer was about ten feet to the side of the lorry and still could not be seen .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Whereas lorry drivers may well have experience of cycling, how many cyclists know what it's like behind the wheel of a lorry in London. Initiatives like this can only be a good thing.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

the question is will cyclists be willing to engage in these types of initiative ,or will they just keep babbling the same drivel about who has what rights on the road .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

As always, there'll be some who do and some who can't be bothered because they know it all already. Maybe stuff like this ought to be on option for anyone caught riding irresponsibly.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I believe that there are several ways o improve cycling on the road - and banning Lorries isn't one of them in certain times.

Companies will suffer, and prices will go up for shopkeepers.

Lorries have vital work in London, and yes, there are time limits on work being done.

When l was a delivery driver in Oxford. I was told deliveries had to made before a certain time. Otherwise you would have 'poles' coming through the ground to stop you getting out of that area until after a certain time.

BUT, Oxford isn't London. This cannot work, in London there are major companies and they need to work.

What need to happen is to EDUCATE the cyclist on the usage of the road. On most Lorries and large vehicles, they have large signs on the rear of the Lorries 'DONT PASS ON THIS SIDE' I have seen loads of cyclists ignoring this

You have cyclist on the pavement - this is an offence, and people say, they do that as it is dangerous on the road - what about pedestrians.

In Hounslow High Street, there is a sign NO CYCLING IN THIS AREA, today when l was there. There were cyclist everywhere.

IF, cyclists want MORE protection on the roads - then they should wear Hi Vis, have lights and PAY INSURANCE like car drivers have to
Cyclist need education

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Goodness me it's like a Dick and Dom double act:).

You want cyclists to get into a lorry cab to prove that a lorry driver can't see cyclists? If they can't see cyclists, they shouldn't be on the roads. All lorries should get CCTV fitted.

Anyone caught driving irresponsibly should be made to ride a bike then (as well as being disqualified)?

Have YOU trained your PARROT to type Arthur? It's just that he's repeating the SAME thing over and over and he's a bit shouty :erm:.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

and there we have it a prime example of what is wrong on our roads ,these people[lycra louts] can't be reasoned with and will not be helped .it's always the other guys fault ,they still reserve the right to commit suicide by reckless riding .

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Let's be honest, only some of them are idiots - the ones who want to be responsible will be and will benefit from initiatives like this. The younger they're exposed to it the better. Those who insist on being irresponsible will sooner or later find that they're called to account. Right now they're able to blame everyone else but their day of reckoning will come either through tougher law enforcement, civil actions and even perhaps under the wheels of a truck, bus or car. I'd rather they were sensible and did what they reasonably can to stay out of trouble but if they prefer to be stupid and take their chances so be it. They're no different in mindset from idiot car drivers, just a whole lot more vulnerable and that fact only adds to their stupidity.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Now, now no need to get uppity because you can't impose your couch potato views on other people.

You prolific keyboard warriors will say anything to "show your concern for the well being of others before their day of reckoning comes" (embarrassingly biblical :blush:). If you really care, lobby for proper protection and facilities for cyclists instead of "come-into-my-cab-and-you-can-see-I-can't-see-you-therefore-when-you die-because-I'm-unsighted-it's-your-fault" schemes.

Neither of you offered an opinion on CCTV for lorries so that they are fully road aware as they should be.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Let me prove a point regarding cycling. I ride my cycle 8 HOURS PER DAY in my job, to look after the vulnerable.
I abide by the 'rule's
1) I wear a Helmet
2) I wear High Vis
3) at night l use lights
4) l don't go through RED LIGHTS
5) I don't under any circumstances ride on the pavement OR go between Lorries or Vans
and l read what's on the backs of Lorries.

Cycling is healthy for you, BUT, there are other traffic on the road. Instead of stupid Boris and his Cycling Commissioner wasting OUR money on supplying lanes in MOST cyclist wont even use them

Cyclist just need exams like when new drivers are on the road. At the end of the day, IF you cant be seen, either by Vans, Lorries, Cars or Buses. Then you are risking your life.

Some Lorry companies are spending thousands on gadgets for the vehicles - but we still have cyclist maimed or killed - when will it stop

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

May I ask you a question Arthur, I know you will answer honestly. Have you ever had formal cycle training and have you ever sat a proficiency test?

I suspect the answer is no to both aspects of that question and yet, here you are, alive! So am I and I've never had cycle training or a cycle test either. I don't have, and have never needed, cycle insurance, I go through red lights when I judge it safe to do so, I wear hi-vis and use lights, I ride on the pavement if it is safer than the road and with deference to pedestrians, I don't generally go between lorries or vans.

And here I am, alive.

It beggars belief eh? Either I have the luck of the Irish or cycling is not about rules, it's about riding defensively on dangerous roads.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Kursk, I will answer honestly. Yes to both questions. In my job, l had to take several tests and pass an exam to even get on a bike.

I used to build bikes as a kid, and l got frustrated when my boss told me to go on a course within my job, and then pass it.

I don't like having a go at cyclists, as they ride them either for Recreation, out with the family or maybe part of there job.
I have seen some really stupid cycling in my life, and yes, some stupid drivers. BUT. There comes a point where you have to say that cyclist need education.

Many years ago l was knocked off my cycle on the A4 at Hammersmith, l ripped my finger open and the driver didn't stop

But, l have driven down some roads where l live and seen cyclists on th roads going in between cars and Lorries, one day ; actually saw a cyclist go between TWO buses and was holding onto the bus to avoid putting his feet on the floor

This is why l say they need educating on the roads

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

When I was 10 years old I did a cycle proficiency test, yes it was in the playground and teachers pretended to be cars but they taught us how to ride.

I should add this was 36 years ago, long before helmets and HiVis. But where were taught not to ride like idiots.

---

I nearly ran over some muppet, it was after midnight and our town turns of street lights, this muppet had no light, helmet, or HiVis, oh year he was wearing black. Had I not had full beam he would have been wearing my car. but luckily I wasn't driving fast and I saw him and manage to drop the anchor.

---

This business about fining lorry drivers who don't adhere to the new rules £1,000 is a joke.

How about fining cyclist £1,000 if they have no lights, helmet, HiVis and jump red lights etc, but oh no we cant do that can we they might throw a hissy fit.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Fair enough Arthur, I believe you. Incidentally do you really spend 8 hours a day in the saddle? No, really?

How about providing proper facilities for cyclists to stop us throwing these hissy fits?

I don't claim to be a cycling expert but riding around whilst the teachers pretend to be cars (teehee) may not be good preparation for cycling these 36 years later :rolleyes:. You must have been traumatised and confused when you rode on the real roads and noticed there weren't any teachers to avoid.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

The number of fines and other punishments handed out to cyclists will increase and for those who believe that having no insurance is a good idea, a few very costly court cases and compensation claims successfully brought will focus a few minds amongst a good number who do actually have something to lose.

Only so much can be expected of other road users before the focus is directed squarely at that proportion of cyclists who behave totally irresponsibly on our roads and increasingly on our pavements, pubic spaces etc.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Conjecture; and a timely indicator that we've probably done this to death.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Kursk, yes, l do spend that time in the saddle, and most of the time its cycling up roads that have steep hills.

In my job, its the vulnerable who depend on me getting to them and making sure that they are safe.

And yes, l do have sore legs and buttocks the following day

This is why l have strong feelings in what is happening to them in the budget cuts - and the withdrawing of all there dues.

This is what Cameron and co don't give a damn about - sorry about going off the subject as well

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

8 Hours a day on a bike?? Ok so how long is your actual working day if that amount of time is spent riding? Also yet another job?

ITs not about educating people its common sense really and many people of this world are severely lacking in that department.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I think you should have a new strap line beneath your forum name Arthur: Big heart, sore bum :)

I know; the thought makes my eyes water too :).

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

This should be interesting... :D

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

London is quite a big paper round ;)

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

No wonder we don't get any papers these days... :)

With all those jobs under his belt, I reckon he's spent more time being told to get on his bike than actually riding it. :D

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I found myself driving behind an elderly cyclist yesterday, barely at walking pace.

Too much oncoming traffic in a narrow road, so I just held back a bit and crept along.

Drivers behind us started to sound their horns after about 50 yards.

What did the old gent do? Gesture at them? Shout obscenities at them?

No, he stopped, got off his bike and pulled it onto the pavement and waved us forwards.

100 yards later I was stopped at traffic lights, and guess who appeared next to me?

Care, courtesy and consideration. A motto often unheard of by many modern drivers and riders.

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

I also met a cyclist this morning in Cardiff, he was very eager to get out of the way.

Taf you may know the area, I was proceeding along Elm Street Roath towards Newport Road at 5:50am. From the left as I was approaching the 4 Elms pub a cyclist with no lights shot out from the lane that connects it to Partridge Road. He was of East European appearance and as per usual he was on the wrong side of the road. i.e. It appears he had come down the lane hugging the right hand side, so he had a very bad view of any traffic on the road he was joining.

I wasn't anywhere near close to him because I was travelling down the middle of the road due to parked cars and the speed bumps. When he caught sight of me he swerved left into the pavement and fell off his bike. (I was at least 20 feet away from him and he wasn't in my direct path)

As I sat at the traffic lights laughing he made about 3 attempts to get back on the bike. He gave up because I estimate his legs were about a foot too short to reach the floor. He started pushing it rapidly in the opposite direction, at this point the lights changed and I turned into Newport Road.

As I carried on my way I started thinking he had most likely just stolen it!

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

Do you meet this cyclist very often then?

Re: Yet again - Cyclist Killed in London
 

They all appear to do it, there are a large number of East Europeans in the area. For some reason they cycle in the gutter on the wrong side of the road, and at junctions they approach from the side road cycling on the wrong side and end up on the wrong side on the main road.

They also do this at cross roads, at the junction of Broadway and Clifton Street they are always doing this. They often shoot out of Clifton Street which a one-way street after cycling down it in the wrong direction. I have even met one coming the wrong way around the one way system where Newport Road joins Broadway, this is a triangular shape 2 lane one-way system with buildings in the middle so there is little chance of avoiding someone doing this.