Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

An interesting development about a Christian charity trying to stop the Bedroom Tax and the PIP rollout:

http://www.premierchristianradio.com...er-bedroom-tax

One of the comments states that some streets are now deserted and it has broken up communities.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Obviously the councils are still offering 2/3 bedroom properties to people. and obviously if you take them you're subject to pay tax on the surplus bedrooms.
so obviously they can't afford to. so obviously don't accept them. so obviously they remain empty.

so obviously they're not getting any income on the empty properties.

Who didn't see that coming?

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

You'd have thought that if only 3 bedroom houses were available, that it would be deemed as 'using what's available' rather than 'choosing to live in a bigger place' and paying the tax and an exemption would apply.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

They were hoping that people would just pay the tax.
but all that's happened is they're increasing the homeless rate. reducing the income by having properties sitting there empty. and making David Cameron look more of a prat than he actually is.

it's madness.
if people can't afford to pay the tax then the properties will have to stay empty.

and some wally will say well they can't be that desperate for a home if they turn it down then.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I completely agree. If someone on benefits is living in a home that is too large for their needs, especially if the taxpayer is paying for it; then it's perfectly reasonable to ask them to move to an available smaller property.

The problem is that there just isn't the housing stock to accomodate them and the Government were perfectly aware of this.

There are many reasons that councils put people in overlarge properties, some examples are:

- The majority of their stock was built for more than one person, this is as the number of people living alone increases.

- For many years many councils and Housing Associations would put eg a newly married couple into a property with extra space. The reasoning behind this was that they would probably have children and would 'grow into the house' without having to uproot the family, change schools etc.

- It is better for someone to take an overlarge property that is hard to let than let it stay empty. Not only do councils lose the rental income, but they have to pay Council Tax on empty properties.

- This Government has made cuts to other benefits that have impacted on the most vulnerable too. For example, Community Care Grants have been abolished. These, amongst other things, were introduced to help families who have to move eg moving costs, plumbing in appliances etc. Without them, disabled people, families under pressure etc simply don't have the resources to move. Even the Thatcher Government who scrapped the Single Payments scheme recognised that some sections of society deserved extra help and so Community Care Grants were born.

They have been put in a position where they can't afford to move or stay.

Taken together, this Government has created homelessness, death through malnutrition and even driven people to suicide.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

And David is very proud to be the Prime Minister that did that.

in years to come he will be bragging about it as one of his schievements in government for 5 years.

he will more than likely sit there and say "Yes. I hated poor people!"

it all stems from the day he was humiliated not long after he was in office.
he held that grudge to the very end.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Daddy, if you had gone to Cardboard City, which is by Waterloo Bridge. You would see a lot worse.

This is what 'Tory Lovers' don't see, or don't give a damn about. I have worked in Central London for many years, and it is appalling. But homelessness has been in London for years, some like it.

But, it has got worse over the years, and yes, due to cuts. It will gradually grow. I used to help with the Sally Army many years ago is giving out food and clothes.

Then sadly l gave up. Now l deal with the homeless outer London and that is even worse.

Sadly the Tories are making it worse by the severe cuts they are placing on society. And before Tory voters come and attack via words.

Lets make things clear, no matter what Government is in power. Sleeping rough in London has got worse.

Long before l did what l do now. I worked in Central London and have a security guard follow me out of a building because of what went on during the small hours:(

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Thats why Boris has bought a water canon.. expecting trouble in the future!!!

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Yes we have to now pay for a parking permit which we never had to do before.:(

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

He who giveth away with one hand taketh back with the other.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

To he that hath shall be given. To he that hath not, even that that he hath, shall be taken away from him. :D

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

This is interesting reading, Just not sure what the answer is. There are so many people with health problems that holds them back and then there is the Dodgers who seem to get away with everything, There are people who are now pension age and have never done a days work in their life , they even pretend to split up and they get a front door cottage and then move back in together, Then they throw it in your face and tell you. " You have got to know the system". This is all wrong.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Problem is as far as I can see is it's never those people that are punished, its the genuine needy that don't know the system that get hammered every time.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

When l was unemployed five years ago, l had the embarrassment of signing on. When l got there, there were various people from various cultures, telling there own people what to ask for etc etc.

The JC staff knew what they were doing, and let them get away with it - today, l go shopping in Hounslow, and you see people outside doing exactly the thing. And security staff are allowing this to happen. Just ripping off the entire system.

This coalition have to bring out a system that will benefit the poor, and hit the rip off merchants. But they wont do that now as it is time up for Cameron

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

by rip off off merchants i assume you mean labours core voters

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Not alway Labour. There are layabouts all over the planet

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

:rofl:

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

More suicide stories:

http://www.channel4.com/news/benefit...fe-julia-kelly

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

And many many more to come.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

So, are we to bankrupt the country by giving a never ending supply of money to people who are so emotionally unstable as to commit suicide when they get a over large electric bill ,or ,as in the case of the woman you linked to was refused benefits because she had enough savings.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

It is morally wrong to insist on still living in a tax payer funded council house when all SIX children have moved out. If a house is big enough to have had SIX children in there, that house is NEEDED FOR SOMEBODY ELSE.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I know of people who have suffered from depression and/or suicidal thoughts. These are people you wouldn't assume could ever suffer from such things- but they did.

Never be so flippant as to assume that it can't happen to you or someone close to you, because if it does, you'd understand. I hope it doesn't take this to change your attitude towards the mentally ill.

This was the way that the Government tried to sell the idea of the Bedroom Tax (BT) to the electorate and is an oversimplification of the issue.

Numerous examples have been given as to why it's not a good idea.

In your example, what happens if there are no suitable one person properties available for the tenant?

I would agree with the BT if people had suitable alternative accommodation available and refused to move into it.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

So :shrug:


erm I asked a question ,which you haven't answered by the way ,there has to be a line where the system says "you do not qualify for that benefit" it's nobodies fault when some people top themselves when the system says no,those same people would most likely top themselves for different reasons

There is no such thing as the bedroom tax :rolleyes: as has been pointed out many, many times in various threads it is a reduction in housing benefit based on the number of rooms you need ,exactly the same as rents in the private sector have been for decades which nobody whinged about

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Sadly, it looks like you will probably have to experience depression and/or suicide either personally or to somebody that you love to alter your crass attitude. Your attitude towards those with mental health problems/disabilities at best can only be described as 'unhelpful' and are probably upsetting to read for the many members on this forum who have or are suffering from a mental health condition- think before you speak is a good rule of thumb in this situation.

It could happen to anybody, including you. Who would have thought that Andrew Flintoff had depression?

Nobody is suggesting that there isn't or shouldn't be claims for benefit that aren't successful- that would be ludicrous.

The coalition has changed, abused and brought in new illogical regulations in relation to the welfare state. This and the hideous way that these decisions are communicated (or in some cases claimants aren't even being informed as is their legal right) is unnecessarily contributing to the unprecedented suicide rate of some of our most vulnerable in society.

The reasons why the 'Spare Room Subsidy' is referred to and colloquially known as 'The Bedroom Tax' has been fully explained already.

You are correct in saying that private tenants have been subject to the 'Accommodation Exceeds Size Criteria' regulations since 15 January 1989.

However, the difference was that nobody currently living in their home at that point was affected, which is not the case with the Bedroom Tax. Tenants who have not moved can to this day have a Fair Rent set and the case won't be referred to the Rent Officer as it is known as a 'pre 1989 tenancy determination'.

Obviously, the majority of private tenants will have moved since the Tories introduced this regulation. The problem here is that they may not have known if the Accomodation Exceeds Size Criteria regulations affected them, so the rules were changed to allow tenants to obtain a Rent Officer determination BEFORE taking on a tenancy or moving in.

To summarise, affected council tenants had this imposed on them, whilst affected private tenants had the choice as to whether to go ahead or not once they knew if the size of the property would affect their benefit claim.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I really have no idea why you keep on going on about how I will have experience depression or suicide to appreciate it ,I have neither agreed nor disagreed with you about it .What I have said is that those with depression or suicidal tendencies will commit suicide or try to for any number of reasons ,the woman you linked to had savings that prevented her claiming so the obvious conclusion is that she would have commited suicide anyway ,regardless of the DWP's decision

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I fully agree.

A couple more reasons to add to what Mr Angry provided you with.

- Just because you have a good relationship with your parents, don't assume that everybody has. Some people are estranged from their parents. As an example, I once had an employee who was thrown out and disowned by his parents because he was gay.

- Some of these young people won't have any parents as they will have been brought up in care. Partly as a result of the possibility of this policy going ahead, it is being considered that it may be necessary to let such children stay in care until they are 21. How much extra will this cost the taxpayer?

- Some of these young people will have been the victims of child abuse, be this of a sexual, physical or emotional nature. As a young man, would you want to continue to live with an adult who had, for example, sexually abused you as a child?

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

the proposal by the government is only aimed at single adults on JS not disabled or vulnerable children

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Someone coming out of care, someone thrown out of their home because of their sexuality and someone who was sexually abused as a child would not qualify under this proposed scheme.

Unless these situations resulted in physical or mental incapacity to the point of not being able to work, the people in the examples given would be in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance if they were unable to secure employment.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Where does it specifically say that?

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

It doesn't. By definition, such people would not be classed as disabled, so would be claiming JSA. As such, they wouldn't be entitled to Housing Benefit under this reform of the regulations, despite it not being appropriate for them to be able or expected to remain with their former caregivers.

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:14 ----------

I am trying to impress on you that your flippant and crass casual remarks about suicide and deoression are wrong and to get you to think a little more about such matters. When people make casual uneducated remarks about others, it's often useful to get them to think about how they would feel if it happened to them or someone close to them.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I think you may be doing martyh a disservice Richard. Clearly, you feel passionately about the topic but perhaps in making your point you've selected a random target.

Depression and suicide are serious issues; I can't imagine that anyone really takes them lightly.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

It looked to me like he was after his dismissive and indifferent comments about the subject, but I hope i'm wrong.

Incidentally, it has been leaked that the DWP are believed to have done their own investigations and found that approx 500 people have died/committed suicide as a result of their policies and ways of working.

They now want to keep their findings secret, but campaigners are going to try to force them to make the findings of this report public by using the law.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

where has this been leaked, please?

No worries, found it - it wasn't "leaked", it was gained under a FOI request.

http://www.mind.org.uk/news-campaign.../#.VQhmZLL46rU

You appear to be twisting the words There's a big difference between "associated with a DWP activity" and "died/committed suicide as a result of their policies/ways of working".

And 60, whilst a terrible number, is not approx. 500...

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Which is the whole point ,if an adult is not disabled and does not have children they would not qualify for HB,that is where the line is drawn because there is not a never ending supply of money to pay everybody



What flippant and crass remarks ,be so kind as to point them out

---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 18:31 ----------

People coming out of care would be adults ,people abused as children grow up and become adults ,non disabled adults are expected to look after themselves

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

The information that I provided is not in the public domain- campaigners hope to change this. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that EVERYTHING is on the internet- it isn't.

Your attitude towards suicide is appalling. In fact, you are so ignorant of the subject that you are actually asking for assistance to point out where you said anything wrong.

This lady and her children can better explain why your 'they would have done it anyway even if their benefits hadn't been stopped, so it doesn't really matter' attitude is so offensive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05n2922

The idea of this proposed scheme is to prevent those in this client group from being able to claim Housing Benefit. The notion is that if they haven't got a job, then they should stay at home until they find one.

What if somebody reaches adulthood after being systematically sexually abused by a parent and is unable to secure reasonably well paid employment? Do you think that it is appropriate for them to be expected stay at home for some years?

Even the Thatcher administration had built in safeguards for those estranged from their parent/s when they legislated to prevent 16 and 17 year olds from claiming benefits by reason of unemployment.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Exactly my earlier point. Where does it say that any current safeguards are being removed?

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

and yet you still fail to point out where I have been crass and flippant so one must assume your just making stuff up again like this statement for example
"The information that I provided is not in the public domain- campaigners hope to change this. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that EVERYTHING is on the internet- it isn't"
It's seems handy to be able spout rubbish like this
" Incidentally, it has been leaked that the DWP are believed to have done their own investigations and found that approx 500 people have died/committed suicide as a result of their policies and ways of working."

and not have to back it up because it is privileged information that only you have access to :rolleyes:

As has been explained before and you agreed the point ,there must be a line drawn ,where would you draw it ? who would you stop helping given a limited budget ?

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

It doesn't. The safeguards for vulnerable people that I referred to related to Supplementary Benefit/Income Support/JSA.

No safeguards for said client groups have been mooted at all for this proposal to bar young people from claiming Housing Benefit- that's my concern.

If you don't yet understand how offensive your remarks/attitude about depressed and suicidal people are; there is little hope.

Let's take Hugh's post as an example. Hugh actually disagreed about the numbers of people that have lost their lives due to the changes to the welfare state; however he started his post with a recognition that however many people had died, it was a terrible state of affairs.

Therein lies the difference, you clearly have no empathy or decency towards those affected by this issue. Do a quick search of your own posts if you require affirmation of this.

I do think that in some ways that the benefits system needs reform and that it is costing too much. I don't think that this is the way forward though, alternatives were presented to the Government during the period of consultation by myself and others.

I am not able or willing to disclose further details about the legal action that various organisations may take against the DWP as this could prejudice the outcome. If in your mind this equates to "making stuff up", then so be it.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

your full of crap ,I said nothing offensive at all ,proven by your inability to highlight the offensive remarks

---------- Post added at 17:42 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------

what a load of rubbish :rolleyes: I think your some sort of Walter Mitty type character

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I refer you to my second paragraph of post 122. What a shame it will probably have to take personal experience of suicide to alter your attitude.

The things that you come out with and the juvenile way that you express yourself tells me so much. I had rather hoped to have an adult debate about the proposed changes to the welfare state.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Instead of babbling like an idiot quote the lines that you find so offensive and give me a chance to defend my remarks ,this is the last time I'm going to ask ,if you don't then I will know that you are just being a prat

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

An update to the current position with regards to the benefit cuts to come from the present Government.

Pensioners, who take up the vast majority of the benefits bill, are to be fully protected, so it looks like working age claimants will have to bear the cuts of 12 billion pounds that they intend to make from the welfare budget.

The Tories are refusing to say where they will make the cuts until after the election, so, from what we know so far of their plans it is likely that:

- 300 million could be saved from restricting Child Benefit to the first three children.

- 50 million by ceasing Housing Benefit for the under 25's.

- 2 billion by freezing the uprating of most working age benefits (including ESA for the sick and disabled).

That leaves a shortfall of nearly 10 billion pounds to be made from the 5 million working age claimants.

Ideas being floated are;

- Abolishing the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG) of ESA.

- Making the disability benefits DLA and PIP taxable.

- Abolishing the lower rate care and mobility components of DLA.

- A reduction in the benefits cap.

- Reducing the % of rent that Housing Benefit covers.

- Make the benefit that is gradually replacing DLA (PIP) much harder to get.

Ideas that have been mooted in the past:

- Introduce a liable relative rule. This means that before being allowed to claim benefits, the most appropriate relative must show that they are not able to help the person requiring assistance.

- Clawing back help with housing costs for those with mortgages from any proceeds from the sale of the house or death (whichever happens first).

- If the WRAG is retained as part of ESA, reduce the amount to JSA plus 50p.

And finally, they could further reduce Tax Credits. The problem with this is that Tax Credits aren't part of the welfare budget- so the Chancellor leaves himself open to charges of misleading the public if he goes down this route.

Re: The growing number of suicides by those on benefits.

The influential house of commons work and pensions committee has called for "a body modelled on the Independent Police Complaints Commission" to look into the rising number of deaths to working age claimants.

They also noted concern about whether benefit sanctions were being applied "appropriately, fairly and proportionally".

http://www.parliament.uk/business/co...ctions-report/

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

There have long been slightly different rules for pensioners, so nothing new.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

If the unfortunate happens and the pensioner has to go into a care home than they will have to use their pension or sell their house to pay for their care.

Surprising that £16bn is never claimed in this country and yet the poor are still crapped on.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

If they go into a care home then the house is a 2nd Home. Why shouldn't be treated as an asset.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Not to say they have probably payed NI and Tax all their lives. They have probably worked friging hard to own their home and it is something to leave to their children.

Please note £16bn is never claimed.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

It is correct that pensioners have been protected from the cuts thus far. However, It is necessary to reiterate this to put into context as to why much of the new cuts will fall on working age people.

These additional cuts are due from 2016/17 after the agreed spending round ends.

The current cuts are still filtering through with 1/3 of disabled people losing their mobility car.

Meanwhile, Tory ministers think it appropriate to 'joke' about what they are doing. Tory minister Hugo Swire was secretly taped by Channel 4 at the £1,500 per place 'Black and White Ball' that was held to raise money for the Conservatives.

He was taped saying that "those on benefits could afford to bid £55,000" for lots including a bust of Thatcher, a weekends pheasant shooting and a shoe shopping trip with Theresa May.

In a reference to Bentleys, Rolls Royces and Ferraris he also went on to say that "in the good old days of MP's expenses we could have them too. But we don't any more".

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

How many people NEED the mobility car. Times have moved on. Transport by taxis or buses is now easier. That's what the rest of us have to do.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I think you spelt his name wrong, I thought it was Hugo Swine...

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

They were assessed as needing the car under the DLA rules. In what is simply a money saving exercise, they changed the goalposts to make it harder under the new PIP rules.

Many disabled people have now lost their independence and contact with the outside world. Some (coupled with the Access To Work cuts and closure of Remploy) have had to give up their jobs and independence- meaning they have to claim out of work disability benefits!?!?

Not all disabled people are able to use public transport or taxis as you assume. Even those that can still face tremendous difficulties both in the practical aspects of things and taxi drivers trying to charge them more because of the extra costs and work involved because of their disability- even though this is unlawful.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

There are lots of people still need their mobility car. Some people cannot walk to a bus stop even though it may be quite near. You may not see their pain but it is there just the same. How can they do shopping and carry bags of messages on and off a bus. You cannot pay taxi fares if you are on a basic pension. I know there are people who abuse the system but some disabled people would be housebound without their car.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Exactly. People often make assumptions about things that they know little about and as we all know assumptions are rarely true and never helpful.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Then again, not ALL disabled are being denied motability cars.

Are all the changes made to buses and taxis not required?

Even with a car, people would have to move around quite a bit outside of it. Eg Try getting around pedestrianised areas in Towns/Cities. If somebody is able to get around a college, then they can manage buses.

Many Remploy places were closed under Labour and are done so on the suggestion of Disabled organisations. Why should somebody be given extra money simply because there is a Remploy company near them and that they can get into?

BTW I have disabilities which mean that I get higher rate mobility DLA, but I can't drive. In periods where I am totally or very(only get out once a week) housebound, even a car wouldn't be much use. Those periods are usually just a few days but can last a week, but the most recent one lasted more than 2 months. The adjustments made such as wheelchair ramps and tactile paving for blind people are a nightmare for me and probably lots of other people.

Only 3 people who use a wheelchair have had their car removed.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I never said that all disabled people were being denied Motability cars, I said that 1/3 of those transferring from DLA to PIP had lost their cars. In addition, I don't see what relevance the number of these having their car taken away that are wheelchair users is, nor do I understand your comment about someone living in close proximity to one of the remaining Remploy factories.

As I said before, i'm not interested in the party political side of things ie who was in Government when various Remploy factories were closed. For the record, the coalition closed the last batch of 33 factories in 2012 and the future of the remaining 20 remains uncertain.

Whether a disabled person could use a bus or not depends on many factors, some of which may vary day by day or even hour by hour. The regulations, however, do state that payment of the mobility component should only be awarded if there is 'enhanced facility for locomotion'.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Do you have a link to back up your statement that 1/3rd of claimants are being denied Motability under PIP, please?

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

If you can't find one, I doubt Richard can. ;)

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

You said "Not all disabled people are able to use public transport or taxis as you assume.". I was pointing out that implies that many are able to. More are able to than would have been 20 years or more ago. Changes have been made. Buses can "kneel" to ease getting on/off, areas set aside for wheelchairs with ramps to get on/off, passes for free travel including free door to door services(like free taxis).

The Remploy factories were closed at the suggestion of Disability organisations.
Link
That's helping 5 times as many people who were "employed" at Remploy just in the space of 4 years. Seems the better system.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

I have found one. The problem is that the estimates are based on PIP reassessments done so far. The reassessments that have been done are likely to be for decisions that were for a fixed term (eg 2 years). That will give a false impression of the numbers for the future .I don't think the reassessments of long term indefinite awards have started yet. IIRC Due to start later this year.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Here we are Hugh.

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-03-13/d...-need-it-most/

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Thank you, den.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

There was a family who lived near me with a disability vehicle a VW Sharan, this was for their daughter poor thing who has cerebral palsy (aged 8) she can walk short distances, they have two other older children (13 and 17) children. The parents are fit and able, the mother does part time and the father is I suppose the carer! he stays at home all day while the younger daughter goes to a special school, she is picked up from home by Taxi Bus and is away from 8 am to 4 pm, 5 days a week.

Question being why does the father not go to work, he is fit and able enough and is in his mid to late thirties.

There are people who deserve mobility cars and there are those who do not. I get peeded off paying in my tax's to people who do not.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Caring for a child with CP generates a lot of extra housework. If she is getting DLA then that is there to allow a carer - presumably, in this case, her dad - to spend the extra time at home, rather than going out to earn a crust. He will have a genuine need to be home, and we're he to have to go out to earn money instead of being funded by the State, family life would be a lot tougher than it already is.

Believe me, I know a family with a daughter of similar age who has CP, and another family with a daughter in her teens whose disability is profound and whose needs are complex.

In both cases, the daytime when the child is out of the house is most definitely *not* time on the sofa in front of Jeremy Kyle.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I think this bloke does lay about unfortunately

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

If his daughter is on the middle or high rate care component of DLA or PIP at either of the only two rates now available with the new benefit and he cares for his daughter for 35 hours a week or more, he is entitled to claim Carers Allowance of £61.35 per week.

Do bear in mind though:

- If he were to refuse to look after his daughter, it would cost the state much, much more.

- Someone who is out of work gets £72.40 a week on Jobseekers Allowance as opposed to £61.35 for being a carer.

- Carers Allowance is taxable and taken into account in full for the purposes of calculating means tested benefits, which erodes even this modest amount.

- Even if he were to do the bare minimum number of hours required to receive Carers Allowance (35) he is still receiving only £1.75 an hour. The more time he spends on caring activities, the more this hourly rate is further eroded. When you take into account that the National Minimum wage is £6.50, we don't seem to be getting a bad deal as taxpayers do we?

You have no way of of knowing what he does in the privacy of his own home, so should not really be making assumptions.

Carers help this country a tremendous amount by working for a pittance or even for free; the only safe assumption that we can make is that as a country we take advantage of them.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

How does all this motability lark work then?

I (and I suspect we all probably) know a bloke who has bought a new 'motability' car that cost just under £16k. There are much cheaper cars on the market that will serve his motability. He has a new car that exceeds his real need every couple of years which is a luxury many working people couldn't hope to afford.

There's an obvious saving to be made without affecting motability isn't there?

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

AFAIK, you effectively hand over your mobility allowance for 3 years for the most basic model, but pay a lump sum upfront if you want, or need, a better or more suitable model (plus pay for some types of modifications).

Insurance and servicing is included, but there are many restrictions such as maximum free mileage (60,000 over 3 year years, then 5p per mile), and the condition of the vehicle when you return it. In the event of an accident, you are required to pay an excess. Ditto for any marks, scratches or dents.

Don't forget that it is a LEASE not a purchase, the car is never yours.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Anyone who doesn't understand the physical, mental and emotional demands of caring for disabled children ought to try it for a day or two and see how they fare.

Caring for a child with CP or other serious conditions is a full time job. They often require constant supervision and intervention throughout the night in which case any free time available to the carer when the child is at school, for example, could well be needed for little luxuries like sleep, maybe even just a little relaxation away from the constant stress involved in dealing with that child and the demands of ordinary life including any siblings.

In the normal course of events as kids grow they require less assistance and supervision. As children with special needs grow so do the problems and the demands placed upon their parents. Just their physical size, weight and strength can be a major issue and couple that with hormonal changes and it ought to be clear just how much harder life often gets as the child being cared for grows. At the same time, the general sympathy and understanding of the public reduces and therefore the options available to the parents for taking their children out lessen and they become more isolated.

IMHO, helping families care for and cope with their disabled children when they're younger is an investment in the long term wellbeing of the child and one less place required in care which is incredibly expensive, especially for children with serious medical issues who need specialist provision, nurses etc. The longer parents are able to care for their children at home, the less the demand on the state in other ways whether that be fostering, assisted living, respite care, long term residential care all of which are far more expensive than options DLA and CA.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

It can get so bad that even respite is refused as "there is no-one qualified to care for your child". And that is just one excuse we have been given during our 23 years of requesting any form of respite for our twins.

And life hasn't got any easier as they have grown into young adults. :(

I had a phonecall a couple of days ago for the "urgent" return of my daughter's ESA reassessment forms. Forms I only received a week before. Another hoop to jump through yet again. :(

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

A sad fact that some children are carers for their parents and they keep the family together, when they should be out playing.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Thanks Taf. If a person who has a taxpayer-funded motability vehicle can afford to upgrade, shouldn't they just be buying a car from their own funds in the first place so that those who are in real need can be provided with a basic means of personal transport?

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Many disabled who qualify for a motability vehicle would probably not be able to get insurance if they leased or bought a vehicle elsewhere.

As for the vehicle being taxpayer-funded, it is of course, but the same benefit could also be used to pay for taxis if they were unable to use buses or trains, or were indeed unable to drive or have someone to drive them.

The upgrades cost can be quite small, in the hundreds, but for certain disabilities the cost can be quite high to match the vehicle to their needs.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

There is the other side to the coin in Cardiff though Taf, there are families with severely disabled children doing quite well out of the system. These families are costing the local authority where one parent is receiving full carers allowance, the child spends 2 or 3 over night stops with a foster carer, the children are taken out for the day on a weekends and in some cases each time social services visit the the family the local authority has to pay for an interpreter.

The most annoying part in most of these instances is that the disability could have been avoided.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

Agree 100%. I still don't know hope you cope without respite Taff but I know you're doing a great job so every credit to you. :tu:

You're quite right about all the hoops - as the kids grow older, the desire to 'protect' their 'rights', in many cases adds greatly to the burden of looking after them. It's bizarre really because, as we've seen all too often in places like Rotherham, putting kids in 'care' isn't a guarantee of real care at all (far from it) yet parents are being increasingly pushed down this route by the onerous responsibilities being placed upon them by well intentioned (I'd like to think) people who haven't got a clue just how hard it is to care for a disabled child/young adult/adult.

We were told that respite care locally for for kids with complex needs costs c. £350 per night. Compare that to the pittance the carers get and you see how much of a false economy deterring carers from caring is.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

The bloke I know paid just under £16k for a saloon car when a similar vehicle for half that price would have sufficed in terms of his mobility. It doesn't seem like it was a 'small' upgrade.

And I know I can't see his pain but I can see that he mows the lawn, paints his front door and goes off for walks with a knapsack on his back.

I can think of a few people, able and disabled, who'd swap for his suffering over theirs.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

I personally know 2 families where the decision was openly made to have more children well after the mothers' 40th birthdays in the hope that one or more would be disabled.

And sadly one of the children was born severely handicapped.

The families' backgrounds would not really surprise most people.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

The cases I'm aware of are due to first cousins having children together. Due to their cultural background the stigma of a defective child means they want to push the problem onto the authorities instead of caring for them. They have further attempts to see if they can produce a healthy child. It's not uncommon for these families to have more than one severely handicapped children with the tax payer footing the bills. Instead of making the practice illegal, the government and local authorities keep paying the money and bury their head in the sand for fear of being branded racists.

Re: Torys to cut housing benefit of young
 

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2...its-from-8-May

The proposed Housing Benefit cuts by the Tories are not only for young people to worry about.

There are fears that the new benefit cap will lead to homelessness for many families as landlords will be reluctant (or it will not make commercial sense) to grant them a tenancy.