Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

This is terrible and could happen to any of our cities, So frightening

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

If acts of terrorism carried the death penalty, so should aiding and abetting, training and supporting terrorism. That might see a drop in the number of "supporters".

Including my niece in Paris who has been wailing on-and-on about "not all muslims are terrorists" until I replied "but most terrorists worldwide are muslims". She also seemed to defend the murder of the injured muslim policeman as not being "muslim against muslim" but "a terrorist against a policeman".

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I see Tessa Jowell is leading the apologist charge and the UAF's response to the shootings was an immediate call for a rally.... against Islamophobia.

I think people really need to stop confusing 'liberal' Islam with 'Islam'. A strong case can be made that these guys were doing exactly what their religion required of them.

Most religions have things in them that are rather crazy in the context of modern times - this is why most mainstream don't take everything in their religion's holy books literally but see them as largely parable. Islam explicitly rejects this point of view.

I honestly don't understand what politicians' problem is, beyond that they are scared of losing the Islamic vote. Do they honestly believe the apologetic excrement they are spouting?

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

They probably "honestly believe the apologetic excrement they are spouting" will win them liberal muslim votes... and quite a few from the bleeding heart liberals too.

---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:41 ----------

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

French Police women shot dead now!

Question to ask is how many more deaths will there be in the future and how can all western governments protect its people.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Isn't that 5-6 years out of date, Hugh?

things have moved on since then.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Unfortunately, they can't.

There's no way any society can stop mad-dog killers.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I do think it's going to escalate.
neither side is going to 'back down' now.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

---------- Post added at 15:58 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------

The UK already has, and immediately returned to the same rhetoric.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I meant the French. the UK are fairies. they don't count.
they're irrelevant. a waste of space. they can go back to eating their cakes and drinking their tea.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Of course they don't. They know full well that we have a problematic population of muslims in our midst but if they say that then they risk vigilantism and other civil disorder which must be avoided at all costs for obvious reasons.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

If adhering to the Koran, the book that children of Islamic parents tend to have rammed down their throat from the age of 5 if not earlier, this point of view is perfectly reasonable.

How can you reconcile the rights of a parent to bring their child up as they see fit with society under these circumstances?

I have to think that, in anything like a 'pure' form, Islam is incompatible with our way of life.

However, it could be said that the same was true for Christianity, however for want of a better phrase Christianity grew up and found its place in modern society.

Bleh, this all sucks, and our cowardly, sycophantic politicians are getting on my nerves. Going to have a beer and eat bacon.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

From my time living around Muslim families it was put to me that the reason Islam tends to be more bloodthirsty is because for a long time it was prevalent in countries with more barbaric methods of punishment and where guns are about as common as pigeons in Trafalgar Square.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

sounds like a hell hole of a place to live where was it exactly

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Wales.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Leicester.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

How did they explain the reason why Islam is an oppressively male religion. Were woman are controlled, treated as 3rd class citizens etc, etcetera?

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

They didn't, I never asked them that.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

If you did. then I reckon the answer would be what I've always thought that they daren't have the women being smarter than them.

or it's probably just the obvious bully, matcho stuff.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

My major issue with the UK's response in a nutshell.

Though of course the USA did it too and Bill Maher is more blunt.

I'm largely with Cenk on this one. It's really telling when followers think they have to avenge their omnipotent deity and his chosen prophet.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

That's exactly what it's all about.
they're supposed to be offended that much that we effectively are too scared to criticize and let them get away with it all.

they kill us if we question this so called religion of "peace".
we get killed if we question the bit about peace. and what's so peaceful about it.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Looks like the end game is playing out, Breaking news on news channels at this time.

http://news.sky.com/story/1404787/fr...n-in-car-chase

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30740115

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I know its the Wail but... this guy has nailed it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-massacre.html

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Indeed. To think at least one of these terrorists has spent time in jail for terrorist relationships only to be released to do it again. :rolleyes:

As for this present situation i think it will only end one way and that's with the terrorists being popped. The problem will be they will take out the hostages as well :(

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Let's hope this is indeed the end and that the only fatalities are those of the terrorist ****.

I think we need to face reality and understand that there is a real threat to our freedoms and a war is being waged on that by people who would, ironically, use our freedoms and tolerance against us. These people do not hide their agenda, ambitions or willingness to commit the most heinous crimes against anyone who refuses to 'believe' and be subjugated. As distasteful as it is, I think we are sooner or later going to have to accept that if we want to maintain any semblance of freedom we are going to have to be single minded in taking on and removing from our society those who preach hatred. It will not be easy but by carrying on trying to appease people (and their supporters) who would slaughter cartoonists and anyone else who dares to disagree with them, we're only exacerbating the problem and doing their work for them.

In WWII the lives of ordinary people were strictly controlled and in the common good. It wasn't always right, it wasn't nice and many innocent people did suffer but it was necessary. The danger we face is, I feel, so severe that we must give the security services the power and resources they need to root these people out and remove them before they're allowed to further spread their poison. The sentencing they receive then needs to fully reflect the seriousness of the agenda they're pursuing and ensure they can no longer threaten us. In the shorter term this may of course increase tensions amongst some groups but that's unavoidable whatever we do - these are people who seem to be grossly offended by so much about the society they have chosen to live within. It often makes me wonder why they choose to live in the west at all if they're so offended by so much but as yet I've never heard the likes of Anjem Choudary explain that.

For those Muslims who would be offended by cartoons of the prophet, they need to understand that they have a right to feel offended but in this society that right does not extend to taking the lives of those doing the 'offending' even where it is illegal. I believe the large majority of Muslims in the UK understand this and do not support or condone terrorism or murder.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

They should go to a country where they won't be offended. where they all believe in the same things. where they will be happy.

it must be stressful for them that they chose a country to live. that they're not happy in.

are they too scared to go to another country that is suited to them and their ideal life?

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

The answer is they don't get the benefits there that they get here handed to them on a plate.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

We do need to take care. How do you define "preaching hatred"? In the UK it tends to be very "victim" based so we end up with people being prosecuted for stating beliefs or upholding beliefs that do not actually state hatred. Examples would include the hoteliers who refused to allow unwed couples to share a room being prosecuted because that meant they would not allow homosexual couples to share. They would have said the same to a heterosexual couple in the same situation.

We do not want a society where you can't express your faith or opinions. There is a difference between saying you believe something is right/wrong and persecuting those you disagree with.

I do think we must not view terrorists other than as criminals. They are not animals and regardless how they behave we don't have to join them. We don't ignore them or allow them to get away with it. Neither do we bring in draconian powers, we don't know how they will be used or abused. How do you know that with a parliament change you won't get on "the list"?

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Yes we do need to be careful but what was allowed to happen, openly, at the Finsbury Park Mosque and has been allowed to happen elsewhere shouldn't have been. The security services and those decent law abiding Muslims need to work together to deal with what's going on behind the scenes. Calling for troops to be beheaded, for example, is preaching hatred. Demanding that anyone who mocks Islam must be killed is preaching hatred. As distasteful as it is, refusing to serve a gay couple isn't preaching anything. Systematically indoctrinating people that gay people are evil, getting out on the streets and calling for gays to be stoned, beaten, executed is preaching hatred and cannot be tolerated.

As for lists, well people like us are already on one - if the terrorists have their way we'll be shown a lot less mercy than would be the case the other way around. Like I said, it is sad and not without risk or downside but IMHO the least worst option is stepping up the campaign against the extremists. If it's a toss up between an MI5 list and a Islamic (or other) extremist list, I know which I'd prefer to be on.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I wish the media weren't sitting on this 24 /7 as I feel it's giving publicity to their cause.By all means report it but not at this length and depth..:erm:

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

There's another shooting in Paris at a kosher supermarket apparently. It's too early to be sure what's going on but I'm looking at live video from Paris and there are a whole load of armed police aiming guns at a building in E. Paris. It's suspected to be the maniac who murdered the female police officer. Apparently there are 5 hostages being held including women and children.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

It's insane. I wonder if the person in Paris at the moment is directly related, a copycat or just completely unrelated to the guys who murdered the cartoonists?

It's worth remembering there was a few people driving cars/vans into crowds in France just before Christmas as well.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

This is the 24 hour news cycle. People can and should be shown exactly what's going on where possible. It may give these people publicity but it also shines a light on the consequences of their actions.

---------- Post added at 13:05 ---------- Previous post was at 13:03 ----------

Links with the policewoman who was shot on Thursday have been mooted. The terrorist allegedly told police 'You know who I am.'.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I reckon it's probably a 'sleeper' who seized on the first attack to carry out his very own. Makes sense for these people to act independently but to the same ends.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Just think this type of attack WILL happen here at some point. :mad:

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Well that's cheerful. :Sprint:

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

It's not a nice thought but I tend to agree - I'd be very surprised if it doesn't happen here sooner or later.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Only the naive would think it won't.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I fully expect them to attack a shopping center or football ground. Looking at the way they work and the way they think, they will want mass casualties and massive news coverage. What better than a tightly packed shopping center or football ground on a Saturday afternoon.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

They've had ample opportunity over the years.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

That's not what they did in Paris.....

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Your right, the big difference now is the training and access to weapons that they could very well have used in a combat situation in Syria. also the terrorist know if they are going to be dealing with well trained security forces they need to be trained to deal with that treat.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

There's any number of soft targets which anyone armed with little more than a knife (if indeed even that) might choose to hit. It doesn't take much imagine to work out the sort of things which could be done, relatively easily, with minimal preparation yet could cause multiple fatalities.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

The impression i get with this attack is they subscribe to the "to fight your enemy you must know your enemy". If you watch the way they handled there weapons and the fact they have body armour you can tell these guys had training and know how to use that training to best effect.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Thanks to 15 years of cack-handed Western policy in the middle east, there are plenty of people with that expertise and the freedom to both use and share it.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Agreed, i was never in favour of bombing people for there oil.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

It goes way back more than 15 years.... to the Crusades me thinks.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I think Islamic Extremism goes back to the 1950s and this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb. Although Chris isn't saying it started because of the last 15 years but that has led to more people being trained/recruited.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Not forgetting the role the internet and social media have played in more recent times. It's never been easier to disseminate terrorist information and propaganda to so many people so powerfully.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Breaking news

The end game has just started at the first site, lots of gun fire.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Let's hope there are two more entrants to 'paradise' shortly.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

If the respective story books are true then it should be hell.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Supermarket coming to a conclusion

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Will all come to an end shortly.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

What puzzles me is why the 2 budding 'martyrs' didn't decide to meet their prophet sooner rather than later. Instead they scuttled off on the run to avoid the real firepower and then started to talk about their martyrdom. :confused:

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

LBC reporting that the 2 brothers have been killed.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Yep sounds like the terrorists were killed and the hostage is free at the first site.

Also the hostages have been saved at the second site according to early reports

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Seems the other terrorist has also been killed.

Pity on all counts - would have far preferred they had been taken alive.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Because they are cowards probably.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

What so they can be freed from jail in the future. Remember they had been in jail once before for terrorist related reasons and were released. They then go and kill people. Personally i am happy there is NO WAY they can do anything again to anyone.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

BBC reporting French were "shooting to kill"

Quite right!!

Saves a pointless trial

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

:LOL:

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

That's the way all professionals are trained - it's only in the movies where they 'wing' people....

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

7.62mm or 9mm does not cost a lot in the grande scheme of things. If they had taken them alive the cost to do that would be the same as popping them. Keeping them in jail for years to come at tax payers expense would have cost them even more.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I tend to agree. Banged up in some jail somewhere for years they'll not only be acting as reminders to those like them but quite possibly able to spread their hatred further, directly or indirectly, at some point. You can bet there'd have been appeals and more appeals along the way, all generating further publicity for their cause. This way they'll be long forgotten, just another few sad people whose lives were ended because they chose to be grievously offended by satire. Pathetic really.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

I've got a bad feeling things are about to take a dark turn after all these past 2 days. Decent society will stand in unison to show we're not scared and won't back down, the nutters will see this as a challenge to ramp up their evil acts.....this won't end well for anyone.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Far better for them to rot in a cell for life than be rewarded

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

And 'cell' should be in the loosest sense - Guantanamo Bay for life would take the sting out of any enthusiasm they'd have for 'death by cop'.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Just like the SAS action in Iranian Embassy in London. Pity the SAS wasn't about when Lee Rigby was murdered.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

With the power of modern weapons if your hit by a high velocity round you tend to die from it.

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

But lets face it, this was happening in Europe so there was no chance they would go to gitmo, instead they would have got the best lawyers at tax payers expense to fight there case for years and years through the European courts. When i said murderers should be in solitary with no contact ever with other inmates i was told that is classed as inhuman and would not be allowed.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Yep.
the world. well some of it. is making a mockery of these people and their religion. the nutters will be even more offended.

looks like 2015 is where it all kicks off.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

These are more than murders - terrorists like these are infinitely worse. If not Guantanamo Bay then somewhere equivalent. I can't see the French caring about defying EU rules for their own national interests.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

There are lots of religious nutters out there on all sides.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

If these people are going to be motivated to attack us because their mates have been sent to their great maker, they're just as likely to do the same if we'd banged them up in a dungeon, thrown away the keys and deprived them of martyrdom.

Not that it would happen like that in the UK - too many human rights lawyers would be queuing up to mount taxpayer funded appeal after appeal just as they did with the Abu pair.

Nope, on balance it's better they're dead, people like them are dying every day they'll soon be forgotten even if the hate which drives people like them won't be.

---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------

To be fair, there's more than a few non-religious nutters around too... ;)

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

We know.
maybe one day there will be a cure.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

The Woolwich terrorists had their appeals thrown out quite quickly: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30306145

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Society might but the politicians at least in the UK have no intention of doing so. The appeasement rhetoric started immediately and it's noteworthy that while in other nations the offending material was published widely here it was not... because the newspapers are scared and the politicians only care about votes.

I have a wonderful Labour MP but after the reaction of one Yvette Cooper I am struggling to bring myself to vote for him even based on local issues as I was intending to.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

And how much has that cost so far in lawyers ?, Bet you its in the millions already.

---------- Post added at 17:24 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------

The appeasement will grow over the next day or two. As you say there is an election soon and all the parties will not want to upset potential voters before they vote.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Didn't sound like the brothers end was cowardly from what's been reported, call them all manner of appropriate names like murdering brainwashed **** bags

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------

I don't think they would've, martyrs act as reminders to these sort of people, not someone banged up and forgotten about

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

It's about £213,000 according to here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30306145

Maybe around £300,000 when you add the last part of the appeal? It just chucked out quite quickly so wouldn't have gone to millions.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

So glad the hostages are ok, The other three can rot in hell

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

It looks like some of the hostages were killed at the super market. :(

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

reports are that 4 hostages killed at the supermarket

http://news.sky.com/story/1405106/ho...ermarket-siege

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

On the BBC news site

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30752239

Maybe that's why they stormed the super market

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-websites.html



---------- Post added at 18:11 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...comedy-courage

Quote:

Our hearts are with the staff of Charlie Hebdo and their families tonight. I know very few people go into comedy, you know, as an act of courage. Mainly because it shouldn’t have to be that. It shouldn’t be an act of courage. It should be taken as established law. But those guys at Hebdo had it, and they were killed for their … cartoons. A stark reminder that for the most part, the legislators and journalists and institutions that we jab and ridicule are not, in any way, the enemy. For however frustrating and outraged the back and forth can become, it’s still back and forth – a conversation amongst those on, let’s call it … team civilisation. And this type of violence only clarifies that reality.

Says it all really.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Apparently there's more gun toting maniacs holding 2 people hostage in Montpellier now.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150109/1016725294.html

Seems like it may have been a botched robbery.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

The Crusades were in RESPONSE to the Islamic invasions.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Some followers of Islam don't seem to have progressed very much over the centuries do they... :shrug:

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Spectacular.

Are the religious "nutters" not the problem here?

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Yes, you've just reposted what I said using fewer words.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Yes, I did. Who are the "We're" that you refer to?

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

You know, you, me, people who aren't blowing things up and killing innocents in the name of a deity etc

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Yes, I get that. But religious "nutters" are not restricted to people of a religious disposition who blow up things and kill innocents in the name of a deity.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

(Sigh)

Let's not pretend you're not fully aware of the point I was making.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

No, let's assume I'm not Russ. What is the difference if their faith is such that they feel compelled or righteous to act in the way that they do? Assuming that one, anyone, considers faith to be a viable argument for belief then who is to discern their faith driven actions as right or wrong?

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Not biting. Take your particular brand of petty and unwarranted pedantry elsewhere. You know exactly what point I was making, why you feel the need to drift off and look for things that just aren't there are known to you alone.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

It was you that said "we're" Russ, not me.

It's there whether you like it or not.

Re: Mass shooting in Paris
 

Thunderf00t's just put up a video about the shootings. Watch it quick because it might get taken down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEir8ORIks0