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-   -   Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33698169)

Russ 28-08-2014 11:12
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Be careful about sounding so sure in case some question whether you were part of any cover-up.

Gary L 28-08-2014 11:14
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Will do.

what?

Pierre 28-08-2014 11:16
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35724801)
No. They were worried about other people (regardless of race) accusing them of being racist.

There are no reports to date about the authorities saying they were afraid of "offending" anyone.
Either way, they were intimidated by the potential PC backlash that may have come their way.

So they put their own feelings above that of the children. Which is the most selfish thing I've heard in a good while.

Russ 28-08-2014 11:18
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35724811)
Either way, they were intimidated by the potential PC backlash that may have come their way.
That's never been in doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35724811)
So they put their own feelings above that of the children. Which is the most selfish thing I've heard in a good while.
I'd say it's a hell of a lot worse than just 'selfish'.

Stuart 28-08-2014 11:22
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35724790)
Agreed. if they were white it would have been investigated. and if there was nothing there then it would be sorry for the inconvenience.
Nothing to do with it. Jimmy Saville was white. As were/are a lot of the celebrities and MPs now implicated by the various inquiries instigated as a result of the documentary about Saville. They got away with it for years.

Gary L 28-08-2014 12:03
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Jimmy Saville is completely different to this in how it was or wasn't investigated.

or is it?

they didn't want to offend Saville. so didn't.

Ignitionnet 29-08-2014 11:38
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Ironic South Yorkshire Police managed to send 8 police officers to search Cliff Richards' house while sticking fingers in ears and ignoring all this. Priorities.

Maggy 29-08-2014 11:57
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35724813)
Nothing to do with it. Jimmy Saville was white. As were/are a lot of the celebrities and MPs now implicated by the various inquiries instigated as a result of the documentary about Saville. They got away with it for years.
:tu:

Russ 29-08-2014 20:37
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
More skeletons tumble out of the closet... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...use-files.html

Maggy 22-10-2014 11:55
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29719090

Quote:
A victim of historical child sexual abuse has launched a legal challenge to the choice of Fiona Woolf as the chair of the inquiry investigating the issue.
A judicial review application, seen by the BBC, claims she is not impartial, has no relevant expertise and may not have time to discharge her duties.
Hell knows when the inquiry will actually get under way..:rolleyes:

Osem 23-10-2014 10:28
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Hundreds of young people at risk of child sexual exploitation in Sheffield were let down by police, a whistleblower has claimed.

Ann Lucas, who ran the city's sexual exploitation service, told BBC News she had regularly passed details about alleged abusers to senior officers.

They had repeatedly failed to act, she said, adding the force's priorities had been "burglary and car crime".

South Yorkshire Police said the allegations would be investigated.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29725855

I wonder whether 'targets' have been responsible for some of this. Police tackling and 'solving' easy crimes in order to make themselves look good whilst turning a blind eye to other stuff which would be far harder to deal with without making themselves look bad.

Ravenheart 31-10-2014 17:28
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Woolf steps down from inquiry

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29855265

Quote:
Victims' groups had told Home Office officials they were "unanimous" she should quit, citing her social links with ex-Home Secretary Lord Brittan.
Hopefully someone outside of all of this will be brought in though its difficult to imagine how deep it runs.

heero_yuy 31-10-2014 17:34
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenheart (Post 35738344)
Paraphrasing: To loose one chair is unfortunate, to loose two looks like carelessness. :erm:

They have to find someone who is not connected with the UK establishment, is competent in the fields required and has the approval of the victims groups.

I still think they should look abroad to commonwealth countries, say Canada or Australia for candidates that are familiar with the English law and child protection.

Osem 31-10-2014 19:48
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I have a feeling that whoever they appoint, someone will object. This job amounts to a poisoned chalice.

Maggy 31-10-2014 20:49
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35738375)
I have a feeling that whoever they appoint, someone will object. This job amounts to a poisoned chalice.
:tu: It's going to take ages to even get going but then we are talking 40/50 years of abuse so what's a few more months?

Osem 11-11-2014 12:43
Hi level child abuse - no cover up found
 
Quote:
A review of the handling of allegations of child abuse by prominent figures has found no evidence that records were deliberately removed or destroyed.

Ministers asked the head of the NSPCC to examine how the Home Office dealt with files alleging abuse from 1979-99.

Peter Wanless's report said it was "not possible" to say whether files were removed to cover up abuse - but found "nothing to support" such a concern.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30002908

Just been listening to part of an interview with Don Hale on LBC, a journalist who was asked by Barbara Castle to look into allegations of child abuse back in the 1980's.

I must say what I heard was as credible as it is worrying. A raft of senior political (and other) figures apparently linked to the Paedophile Information Exchange and quite possibly involved in child abuse but effectively 'protected' by the authorities because to expose them would be damaging and quite possibly 'against the national interest'.

If this is the case then it's no wonder to me that every shred of anything damaging would not only be 'lost' but great effort would also be made to remove or muddy any trace of the means by which it was lost.

Apparently Mr Hale is prepared to talk to the enquiry so it'll be interesting to see if that ever happens.

Jimmy-J 11-11-2014 16:59
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Don Hale was editor on a local paper in the 1980’s when Barbara Castle, the local MP for Blackburn who he knew from his time working at the BBC, started to provide him with documents that pointed to a paedophile ring operating within Westminster.

“It was quite explosive really, in terms of what she was showing me; there was a paedophile ring operating within the powers of Westminster, and many of the members were actively supporting the PIE (Paedophile Information Exchange) network. I found it quite amazing, and she gradually came in with more and more paperwork.”
Here's that LBC interview with Don Hale.

Osem 19-11-2014 13:02
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
This is truly shocking!

Quote:
The Deputy Prime Minister has described allegations Scotland Yard helped "cover up" the death of an eight-year-old boy at the hands of a Westminster paedophile ring as "grotesque".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...grotesque.html

Arthurgray50@blu 19-11-2014 22:53
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
http://www.itv.com/news/2014-11-19/t...ster-cover-up/

This whole scenario along with the main page. Is something that will NOT go away.

You solve one problem, and another one will follow. Its the depraved way that this sick people thrive on.

I am 62 years old now, and its been going on since l can remember since a kid. In my young days, it was called something different.

The law enforcement people must close down the internet sites that this people groom the poor kids.
Then have to bring in prison sentences that fit the crime, not the silly two to three years sentences they hand out.

The most prolific person l can remember, was a guy called ' Gleaves' who always carried a letter saying it was quite normal to harm a child.

A major problem is, and always will be the fact that there are not enough people to cover this sick way of life.

It will continue until we deal with this problem.

nashville 20-11-2014 15:40
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Every other day there is another top name being talked about, I just wish this would have come out when some of them were alive.

Arthurgray50@blu 21-11-2014 14:47
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I was abused as a kid, and it went on for five years. But these depraved monsters, who prey on kids do it in a manner that the kids don't know.

In my day it was trips out on boats, cinema, plenty of sweets and sometime clothes. And bang, they are in there. What did the police and parents do in my day - NOTHING.

Nowadays, these sickos, prey on kids in a different manner - Alcohol, games, fags, drugs and clothes. Then bingo.

There are not enough personnel to deal with the problem, and sad to say with all the cutbacks, social services and local authorities cannot handle it.

Its like the Saville sickness, you get a top person nicked, then another, and now we have it in the Houses of Parliament.

I applaud the guy who has given the names to police. about abuse. He is a very brave guy.

It took me 25 years before l told anyone.

nashville 21-11-2014 15:26
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
There is so much of it going on & we applaud all the people who are coming forward. Thanks for sharing, It could not have been easy for you.

heero_yuy 04-02-2015 13:23
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heero Yuy
They have to find someone who is not connected with the UK establishment, is competent in the fields required and has the approval of the victims groups.

I still think they should look abroad to commonwealth countries, say Canada or Australia for candidates that are familiar with the English law and child protection.
Quote:
Theresa May has named New Zealand high court judge Justice Lowell Goddard as the latest chair of the troubled child abuse inquiry following the resignations of two previous holders of the post.

The Home Secretary said the judge had previously carried out a child abuse inquiry in her native country, and was a member of a United Nations panel which aims to prevent torture.

"She is an outstanding candidate with experience in challenging authority in this field, having led with distinction an inquiry into police handling of child abuse cases in New Zealand," Mrs May said.
Linky

Finally someone's used their common sense and got away from the UK establishment. Looks like a good choice from what I can see.

Osem 04-02-2015 13:42
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
What's the betting the media are having a good old root around Justice Goddard's past and connections at this very moment, just to see if they can drag up anything in the slightest bit contentious.

heero_yuy 04-02-2015 13:46
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35757224)
What's the betting the media are having a good old root around Justice's Goddard's past and connections at this very moment?
If you set out to find witches then you usually do.:( At least this judge is well away from the UK and has a track record of running abuse enquireys.

Russ 04-02-2015 14:00
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I have a feeling some very powerful and influential (and most importantly, still alive) people are caught up in this so I'm sure they go digging deep for dirt. If she genuinely is clean and not in anybody's pocket I reckon many a sphincter muscle will be chomping right now :)

Osem 16-04-2015 07:53
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) will later announce whether Labour peer Lord Janner will be charged with child sexual abuse offences.

The Times is reporting the prosecution will not go ahead because the CPS has decided it would not be in the public interest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-32329924

Now why wouldn't that be a surprise?

Osem 16-04-2015 11:40
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Well there we are:

Quote:
Labour peer Lord Janner will not face child sex abuse charges, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has said.

The severity of 86-year-old Greville Janner's dementia meant he was not fit to take part in court proceedings, the director of public prosecutions said.

The allegations related to residents in Leicestershire children's homes between 1970 and the 1980s. Lord Janner told MPs he was innocent in 1991.
I wonder if any civil actions will follow.

MalteseFalcon 16-04-2015 11:51
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Sucks, but can understand because of the dementia.

Osem 16-04-2015 12:02
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Had these matters been investigated properly and things been moved along more swiftly, less of those accused would have died, developed medical conditions or whatever. As it stands, we're probably never going to get to the bottom of who was involved. Now's the time for those police officers who were silenced to be allowed to come forward and give evidence freely.

TheDaddy 20-04-2015 07:33
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkC1984 (Post 35771970)
Sucks, but can understand because of the dementia.
Why hasn't he stood down as a Lord if he's so ill. Reeks and is disgusting imo

Osem 26-04-2015 14:55
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I'm so hoping we haven't heard the end of this matter.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...se-lawyer-says

Quote:
The mental capacity of Lord Janner, who will not face child abuse charges because he has dementia, could still be examined by third-party expert witnesses, according to a lawyer representing several of his alleged victims.

The move would be initiated as part of a series of civil claims being brought by alleged victims of the Labour peer who have been left distraught by the news that he will not face trial...

...However, any claims they make for compensation face a further obstacle. The peer reportedly transferred ownership of his £2m home to his children in March 2014 – the same month that police raided his Westminster office.

Scorer said this would not deter claimants. “If the transfer has happened in the last five years and was done with the intent to deprive potential creditors, there may be ways around this. The question I would ask is: if he actually has dementia, on what basis does he have the capacity to transfer ownership of assets? That is something we will need to explore. On the face of it, the two don’t sit easily together. There appears to be a contradiction between saying on the one hand that ‘he has dementia’ and on the other that he has been able to effect a transfer of assets. If there’s evidence that the transaction has been done to avoid potential creditors that is something we could challenge.”
I can understand why a whole lot of powerful people might prefer a trial not to happen and I hope the decision made by the CPS is overturned in the public interest.

Arthurgray50@blu 26-04-2015 20:35
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I think that something stinks in this matter. Why should Janner get away with it, yes, he may have Dementia. But this develops over years, and if he was competent over the past year to sign away his fortune to prevent compensation being paid out.

Then he is competent enough to be prosecuted.

This again is high ranking people people sticking in the oar in to protect them, and probably making the story even biggr Like Thatcher did - it has stated thst she knew it was happening, but did nothing.

Kids need protecting, and this is just snobberish people getting involved

Osem 29-04-2015 12:38
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Lawyers representing a group of people who claim they were sexually abused by the former Labour MP Lord Janner say they are to seek a review of the decision not to prosecute him...

... Another firm, Quality Solicitors Abney Garsden, which is representing three clients in a civil child abuse claim against Lord Janner, has written to Ms Saunders.

Peter Garsden, a leading child abuse lawyer at the firm, said he wants Ms Saunders to clarify the reasons for her decision by disclosing reports which supported it.

He has also requested documents relating to historical investigations relating to Lord Janner, including an investigation into several children's homes in Leicestershire during the 1990s.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32506624

---------- Post added at 12:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 ----------

Breaking news:

Quote:
Goddard abuse inquiry to examine issues surrounding allegations against former Labour MP Lord Janner
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32515196

Let's hope that so much time doesn't elapse that those implicated in serious wrongdoing don't all pass away, develop the sort of medical conditions which prevent them standing trial or divest themselves of assets which might be at risk if they're found guilty.

Osem 01-05-2015 15:46
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
The more I hear/read about this case the more it seems to stink.

Quote:
Lawyers representing people who allege they were abused by Greville Janner have called for “consistency and transparency” after an elderly man with dementia had his sentence for child sex crimes greatly increased by the court of appeal.

Alison Saunders, the director of public prosecutions, decided in April not to charge the 86-year-old peer Labour peer on health grounds despite saying there was enough evidence to prosecute for 22 sex offences against nine people.

She is likely to face greater pressure after Lewis Hill, 90, who was convicted of historical offences against young boys, had his sentence increased from two years suspended to five years’ imprisonment after the solicitor general said the original punishment was unduly lenient.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/...dementia-cases

I think we all need to know just how robust the medical evidence is.

TheDaddy 01-05-2015 16:08
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35774843)
The more I hear/read about this case the more it seems to stink.



http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/...dementia-cases

I think we all need to know just how robust the medical evidence is.
Not sure where I heard this but the medical evidence is based on counting iirc, it is that robust

Derek 05-05-2015 11:14
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35774843)
I think we all need to know just how robust the medical evidence is.
I'd imagine Ernest Saunders doctors were involved. :dozey:

If he's able to lead a life without significant medical and social assistance then IMO he is fit enough to stand trial.

Stuart 05-05-2015 11:25
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35774843)
The more I hear/read about this case the more it seems to stink.



http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/...dementia-cases

I think we all need to know just how robust the medical evidence is.
:notopic: I bet The Grauniad found it painful to criticise a Labour peer that much.
Respect to them for doing it despite their outspoken support for the party though.

Osem 05-05-2015 15:15
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35775557)
I'd imagine Ernest Saunders doctors were involved. :dozey:

If he's able to lead a life without significant medical and social assistance then IMO he is fit enough to stand trial.
Saunders? Now why does that ring a bell? :confused:

---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:10 ----------

Quote:
Fresh evidence has emerged that authorities in Rotherham were warned about child sexual exploitation in 2003 and again in 2006.

Police and council officials took no action despite being told organised gangs were grooming and abusing girls.

Ex-South Yorkshire Police drugs analyst Angie Heal said she "cannot fathom" why her reports did not lead to action.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-32586558

Quote:
South Yorkshire Police and Crime Commissioner Alan Billings said agencies knew about Dr Heal's reports at the time but were focusing on other issues.

"The reports are utterly shocking. When you read them there's no holds barred," he said.

"They went not only to police and local government but to safeguarding boards and the national government. It was widely known what she said.
I wonder if the reluctance to act was in part also linked to the existence of very high profile figures engaged in similar activities and it was deemed better to leave well alone.

Whatever the rationale, it's a huge scandal that needs some answers and the sooner the better.

Derek 06-05-2015 06:41
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35775631)
Saunders? Now why does that ring a bell? :confused:
He was released from prison after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. He then went on to make a full recovery, the only person in the world to do so.

Maggy 06-05-2015 09:13
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35775749)
He was released from prison after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. He then went on to make a full recovery, the only person in the world to do so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinnes...-trading_fraud

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...s-1347932.html

They should refresh everyone's memories..so BOT.

I think that if it does come to court it will come down to expert medical evidence.

Osem 06-05-2015 15:07
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35775749)
He was released from prison after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. He then went on to make a full recovery, the only person in the world to do so.
Lol - I know*, I was referring to the other 'Saunders' in this matter, the CPS boss. Quite a coincidence that... ;)

(* http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34557551-post105.html)

Let's hope he's the last to escape full justice in that manner eh.

Osem 13-05-2015 12:15
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I realise it's in the Mail and some will say therefore bound to be a complete misrepresentation of the facts but it makes interesting reading:

Quote:

Labour peer Lord Janner attended the House of Lords 634 times and voted 203 times even after his dementia diagnosis
Labour peer gave family control of his financial affairs in April 2009
Since then Lord Janner voted 203 times in Lords and attended 634 times
Also managed to claim £104,365 in taxpayer-funded allowances until 2013

CPS boss may face MPs over decision not to prosecute him for 22 offences
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...diagnosis.html

If it were all true it wouldn't look very good would it.

I'd like to know how robust the process which led to this 'diagnosis' was and whether any such determination would offer similarly effective protection from prosecution for ordinary people, especially those who really aren't able to find their way into parliament and vote on numerous occasions in spite of their debilitating condition.

Osem 15-05-2015 23:14
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
A group who claim ex-Labour MP Lord Janner sexually abused them have been granted a review of the CPS's decision not to prosecute him.

The Director of Public Prosecutions had said Lord Janner, 86, would not be prosecuted, despite sufficient evidence to bring a case, due to his dementia.

But the CPS said a senior prosecutor unconnected to the original case would now review that decision.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32757978

Good news - I hope it's not too late and something comes of it.

Kursk 16-05-2015 23:10
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35778165)
Good news - I hope it's not too late and something comes of it.
Indeed it is. For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone' ;).

Osem 20-05-2015 14:46
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
More than 1,400 suspects, including politicians and celebrities, have been investigated by police probing historic child sex abuse allegations.

The figures were revealed by Operation Hydrant, set up by the National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC).

It explores links between child sex abuse by "prominent public persons".

Of the 1,433 suspects identified, 216 are now dead and 261 are classified as people of public prominence, with 135 coming from TV, film or radio.

Of the remainder:

◾A further 76 suspects are politicians, 43 are from the music industry and seven come from the world of sport.
◾A total of 666 claims relate to institutions, with 357 separate institutions identified.
◾Of these, 154 are schools, 75 are children's homes, and 40 are religious institutions.
◾They also include 14 medical establishments, 11 community institutions, nine prisons, nine sports venues and 28 other institutions, including military groups and guest houses.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32812449

MalteseFalcon 20-05-2015 14:53
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Anyone of those accused who are guilty, I would string them up. And not by the neck either.

Osem 09-06-2015 09:47
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33058969

Quote:
Police in Scotland are understood to be investigating claims Labour peer Lord Janner abused a boy there in the 1970s.

Det Ch Supt Lesley Boal said Police Scotland officers were investigating a historical complaint - but did not confirm a name.

Lord Janner was accused of abuse allegations during the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s - but was deemed unfit to stand trial in England because of dementia.
Well it'll be interesting to see whether the Scottish legal system is as 'accommodating' as England's when it comes to claims of ill-health.

heero_yuy 09-06-2015 09:51
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35782160)
Well it'll be interesting to see whether the Scottish legal system is as 'accommodating' as England's when it comes to claims of ill-health.
Especially as we've seen almost Lazarean remission from dementure or other "incurable" deseases more than once when prosecution has not been undertaken.

Osem 09-06-2015 09:57
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Yes and we wouldn't want anyone to think that justice isn't applied equally in the UK would we.

Dementia sufferers tried and convicted

Derek 10-06-2015 10:34
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35782160)
Well it'll be interesting to see whether the Scottish legal system is as 'accommodating' as England's when it comes to claims of ill-health.
Not sure about that but some of the quirks of Scots law make prosecuting sexual offenses, especially historical ones, even more difficult than in England and Wales.

Osem 23-06-2015 20:24
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Lord Janner has been accused in Parliament of being a serial abuser who attacked children inside the Palace of Westminster.

Labour MP Simon Danczuk said police had told him they wanted to bring 22 historical charges against Lord Janner, dating between 1969 and 1988.

The director of public prosecutions (DPP) announced in April that he would not be charged because of his dementia, although that decision is under review.

The ex-MP denies any wrongdoing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33243782

Quote:
Speaking in a Westminster Hall debate about the Crown Prosecution Service, Mr Danczuk said: "I have met with Leicestershire police and discussed the allegations in detail.

"Children being violated, raped and tortured - some in the very building in which we now sit."

The Rochdale MP continued: "If Lord Janner really is too ill to face prosecution, then why can't the courts establish this with a fitness to plead process?

"This would clear up doubts that still linger, for example why he was still visiting parliament on official visits after he was declared unfit to face justice."
How long is the review into the DPP's decision not to prosecute Janner going to take I wonder. I dare say the dementia's getting worse every day...

Osem 26-06-2015 21:42
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
According to LBC the Daily Mail is claiming that the DPP's decision not to prosecute Janner will be overturned. Before anyone starts celebrating, however, apparently it's not clear what the authorities intend to do next so we should prepare ourselves for news that his 'condition' has taken a turn for the worse...

Osem 29-06-2015 16:37
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Lord Janner will be prosecuted over claims of historical child sexual abuse after a review overturned a decision by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33310095

Quote:
...A judge will now decide if Lord Janner is fit to stand trial. If not, he will face what is known as a "trial of the facts", where a court hears evidence from alleged victims and decides only if Lord Janner committed the physical acts of abuse. There will be no finding of guilt or conviction...

... There are only three possible outcomes from a trial of the facts. They are a hospital order, a supervision order or an absolute discharge.

The jury can only make a finding that the defendant did the particular physical act. There cannot be a verdict of guilty.

Such a trial recently took place in the case of the former Luton South MP Margaret Moran, who was accused of falsely claiming more than £53,000 in parliamentary expenses.

She was given a two-year supervision order.

In Lord Janner's case, the process would involve the alleged victims giving evidence.
I'd have thought that a civil action might well follow anything other than an absolute discharge but even then it might still happen.

Without referring to this case specifically, for the victims of abuse, I'm sure any official recognition of their plight by way of a judgement is to an extent welcome, irrespective of the resulting punishment. I can only imagine the pain those whose abusers have passed away before facing any form of justice must be suffering.

Osem 13-08-2015 16:20
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Lawyers for Lord Janner have lost a High Court bid to spare him attending court to face child sex abuse charges.

The 87-year-old peer, who has dementia, must now appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on Friday in relation to 22 charges spanning the 1960s to the 1980s, which he denies.

The ex-MP's lawyers had argued it was "barbaric, inhumane and uncivilised" to force him to attend as he was too ill.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33909697

I know what's more barbaric, inhumane and uncivilised...

Osem 14-08-2015 12:13
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Lord Janner has failed to appear in court to face child sex abuse charges, despite the High Court ruling he must attend a hearing.

The 87-year-old, who has dementia, had been due at Westminster Magistrates' Court in relation to 22 charges spanning the 1960s to the 1980s.

Lord Janner's lawyer said he wanted him to appear via video link, but the judge said the issue must be resolved on Friday, even if it meant arresting him.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33923041

I hope they arrest him but doubt they will.

Derek 14-08-2015 12:41
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I think his lawyers will be stopping for some last minute supplies before the hearing. :erm:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/08/20.jpg https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/08/21.jpg

Gary L 14-08-2015 13:49
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
He'll turn up. he's just got lost.

Osem 14-08-2015 17:30
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Well how traumatic could a one minute appearance be? No doubt we'll see how much of an ordeal it was for him in due course.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33931860

heero_yuy 14-08-2015 17:51
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
No doubt he'll have been carefully coached in how a sufferer of advanced Alzheimers should behave.:rolleyes:

Be sure if he's not "done" there'll be a miraculous recovery that Lazarus would be jealous of.

Gary L 14-08-2015 19:08
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35793528)
No doubt he'll have been carefully coached in how a sufferer of advanced Alzheimers should behave.:rolleyes:

Be sure if he's not "done" there'll be a miraculous recovery that Lazarus would be jealous of.
In the clips I've seen of him on the TV. he always looks like he's putting it on with all the pointing and squinting of eyes.
it seems as though he's actually over exaggerating.

Arthurgray50@blu 16-08-2015 19:24
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
He is as guilty as sin. He was well enough to sign all his stuff away, when this was all revealed.

And all that rubbish about lets go and get some ice cream.

Sadly, after what happened to me, l hope they take a load of them out to sea and sink the boat

There will be a lot more stuff coming out now. Its like only on Friday, Prescott was accused of something - that happened 30 years ago. He said the perfect answer. Why does that person come forward now - l think money, may be the answer.

What Ministers and the government must do is root out all this, stop covering it up. And lets hear the truth

Gary L 16-08-2015 22:02
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Well it looks like he enjoyed the day out. so there shouldn't be a problem with him looking forward to the future ones.

Maggy 19-12-2015 18:24
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35142675

Quote:
Lord Janner, the former Labour peer ruled unfit to stand trial over allegations of child sexual abuse spanning four decades, has died.
He had been suffering from dementia and died peacefully at his home on Saturday aged 87, his family said.

nashville 19-12-2015 18:36
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Rules for them and none for the victim

Osem 19-12-2015 18:41
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I don't suppose the prospect of legal action was very appealing.

Julian 19-12-2015 21:40
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
hopefully he will be treated like savile.

Gary L 20-12-2015 14:03
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I reckon he's done an Elvis.

TheDaddy 20-12-2015 16:46
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35813692)
I reckon he's done an Elvis.
What became really fat and died on the toilet :confused:

Gary L 20-12-2015 18:43
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35813718)
What became really fat and died on the toilet :confused:
No. faked his death and got a job in a fish & chip shop.

Osem 15-01-2016 13:20
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Twelve former residents of children's homes say they were abused by Lord Janner, a BBC investigation has found, as criminal proceedings end.

The peer, who died before a court could examine claims of child abuse against him, regularly visited homes in Leicester in the 1970s and 1980s.

An ex-police officer says he reported suspicions about Lord Janner, a decade before police began a full inquiry.

Lord Janner, who had dementia and died aged 87 in December, had denied abuse.

A "trial of the facts", due to take place in April, has now been shelved by prosecutors.

A jury would have been asked to decide - without reaching a decision about whether he was guilty - if 22 alleged incidents of abuse from the 1960s to the 1980s had taken place.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35304528

It's a great pity all this has taken so long and that he was able to avoid proper legal scrutiny. I dare say there are quite a few powerful people who'll be breathing a sigh of relief for one reason or another and the longer this drags on the more of them will avoid their day in court. Maybe that's the "establishment's" desired outcome... :shrug:

Taf 15-01-2016 15:33
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
No evidence to be heard from those claiming abuse. No chance of compensation from his estate then?

Obviously he is a different type of alleged paedo to J. Saville.

nashville 15-01-2016 16:32
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
This is a disgrace that it was not looked into years ago. These children must have been put through terrible behaviour by these horrible men

Osem 15-01-2016 17:02
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
There is the distinct whiff of a very high profile cover up going on.

Osem 19-01-2016 11:37
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Three chances were missed to prosecute late peer Lord Janner over sex abuse claims, UK independent inquiry finds
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35352809

How very convenient.

Arthurgray50@blu 19-01-2016 22:44
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I have extremely strong opionons on this. The people that l feel so sorry for is the victims. These are the forgotten ones.

You have sickos in high places, who prey on vulnerable kids and adults. I would seriously hang em'.
Someone asked me the other day about it. As for some unknown reason, 'little bits' of what happened to me, came out. He asked me cant you forgive that person - my answer was NO.

I am glad the person who done it to me is dead. I haven't even told my own wife what happened to me.

Sickos ruin peoples lives. And people like Janner, Saville should have been found out years ago. But they get protected by those in high office.
In MPs it will get swepted under the carpet

Osem 24-03-2016 19:08
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
"Physical and sexual abuse on an industrial scale" went "unchecked for decades" at children's homes in a south London borough, a victims' report says.

The report detailing claims by 600 people will go before the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse.

At a preliminary hearing earlier, the Shirley Oaks Survivors Association was given "core participant status".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35889595

:mad:

Arthurgray50@blu 24-03-2016 20:47
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
http://news.sky.com/story/1666291/fo...-for-six-years

Child abuse, is a vile act by persons, whether it men or women. Yes, Johnson was jailed. But l just wish that the police and authorities didn't sweep crimes like this under the carpet. Crimes that are committed like this. With lack of evidence, the victims are scared to come forward.

When l told my parents about it, and then the police. I was told forget it, its in your head

I have said for many years that 'groomers' go undetected, and get away with any court action, unless the police and authorities take it very seriously.

Even with the Saville, business, we have many well known celebrities, and even politicians. Have got away with it.

When l hear of this evil trade, it brings back to me, what happened, to me.

I can even still remember the house, that l went to. And what happened. And that is 50 years ago.

I believe that there should be a mandatory sentence of 30 years minimum, for this sort of crime

Its takes away your dignity, and live with it for ever.

And when l hear everyday, that an famous person, or MP is in the frame. Then you hear from the victim. They got bought off. And the culprit hires a big money lawyer. And the culprit gets away with it.

I suppose the only good thing, that has come out of the Saville case, is that victims are now coming forward

Osem 15-06-2016 09:47
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Now abuse claims have been made against former Liberal MP Clement Freud.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36535263

Quote:
The late broadcaster and MP Sir Clement Freud has been accused of abusing two girls between the late 1940s and 1970s.

Sylvia Woosley, who first met Freud when she was 10 and later went to live with him, told the ITV Exposure programme that he abused her for years.

A second woman, who wants to remain anonymous, claimed he abused her as a child and raped her when she was 18.

His widow Jill Freud, 89, said she was "deeply saddened and profoundly sorry for what has happened to these women".
I wonder how many more?...

nashville 15-06-2016 10:18
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Why oh why could these people not been found out before they pass away, Too much cover ups and back handlers, Well done for his widow say what she did, they normally say it's not true,

TheDaddy 15-06-2016 16:53
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Wasn't he friendly with maddy mccans parents.... hmm

MalteseFalcon 15-06-2016 17:51
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Yes, this has been an excuse for them to get some time on TV again. Freud had an apartment near where she disappeared and then befriended the parents after she went missing.

I have a feeling that I may have to eat humble pie re: the parents if the 2+2 insinuations are true.

Hugh 15-06-2016 20:16
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
What ever happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'?

MalteseFalcon 15-06-2016 23:56
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Well that's the trouble isn't it Hugh? How can we prove he was guilty of the claims?

denphone 16-06-2016 10:17
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Singer Sir Cliff Richard will face no further action over allegations of historical sexual abuse, prosecutors have said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36546038

Julian 16-06-2016 10:35
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35843344)
Singer Sir Cliff Richard will face no further action over allegations of historical sexual abuse, prosecutors have said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36546038
So his good name dragged through the dirt, the televised raid on his house etc. is acceptable collateral damage in the " hunt "

Like happened to Paul Gambaccini, it is disgraceful that people can make fictitious allegations with impunity. :mad:

nomadking 16-06-2016 10:43
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
The snag with these sorts of allegations is that have they been explicitly disproved or are they just not provable enough? Difficult to get the balance right.

denphone 16-06-2016 10:52
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
The thing is though mud sticks sadly as its very difficult to repair ones reputation once its been dragged through the headlines.

techguyone 16-06-2016 11:21
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Lord Bramall said it right, rather than having the CPS say 'insufficient evidence' which implies you were not quite guilty enough, they should actually say 'unsubstantiated claims' which at least doesn't make it sound like he got off lucky.

I don't think that anyones name should be put up prior to a trial, and I really don't see the point of holding inquests and wasting money looking into things that have happened, when the accused is dead. We can't bring them back and punish them, or even prove conclusively one way or the other as the dead one can't make a defence.

One possibility to help encourage people to make claims against someone while they are still living, would be to have a statute of limitations. 30 years say? that's quite a long time.

We're not in the dark 70's now, peope are a lot more informed and able to speak up, at least then we'd get people prosecuted while they were still alive, or at least not OAP's

Osem 16-06-2016 13:45
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I'd like to imagine that some heads will roll at the Beeb over the Cliff Richard debacle but don't suppose there'll even be a few red faces. Odd how they're quick to discipline some people but not others - thinking about the failed executives who've been 'retired' on bloated pensions/pay offs or been moved to other well remunerated roles as punishment for being utterly inept and worse. If I were him I'd be exploring legal action.

MalteseFalcon 16-06-2016 14:23
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Insufficient evidence will mean mud sticks, but I never believed he was guilty of the allegations.

Maggy 04-08-2016 20:36
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36982049

Quote:
Dame Lowell Goddard has resigned as the head of the UK's independent inquiry into child sexual abuse, the home secretary has announced.
The New Zealand high court judge was appointed to lead the inquiry in 2015 after two previous chairwomen quit.
It's becoming a poisoned chalice.

RizzyKing 05-08-2016 05:44
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Establishment cannot properly investigate establishment they need to hand this off onto a qualified police officer there are plenty who came along after all this happened otherwise this inquiry will eventually fail failing the victims. It cannot be allowed to fail this has to be cleared up once and for all so that victims can have closure and heads need to roll and people need to be prosecuted otherwise the public will have zero confidence in a blind justice system and even more damage will be done to the political class.

Osem 05-08-2016 18:23
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
I'd imagine there'll have to a fair few more deaths or dementia related illnesses amongst the guilty before the truth comes out. There are too many powerful people who won't want to be incriminated...

Damien 05-08-2016 22:24
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
This woman wasn't connected to 'the establishment' was she? She comes from New Zealand. There must be someone qualified to do this job and again if we appoint from abroad, America or Canada for example, then we will have less of the conspiratorial stuff. That would be helpful anyway because this whole situation is already far too conspiratorial.

MalteseFalcon 06-08-2016 07:12
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Good theory, but she admitted she didn't even know the basics of British law. Making a complete mockery of the whole thing.

Damien 06-08-2016 08:12
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkC1984 (Post 35852653)
Good theory, but she admitted she didn't even know the basics of British law. Making a complete mockery of the whole thing.
I imagine her replacement could learn pretty quickly.

Hugh 06-08-2016 08:54
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkC1984 (Post 35852653)
Good theory, but she admitted she didn't even know the basics of British law. Making a complete mockery of the whole thing.
Where did she admit that?

A Daily Fail article stated
Quote:
The New Zealand judge heading the UK's historical child abuse inquiry has shocked barristers by admitting that she is confused by English law.
then doesn't back it up or mention it again in the article.

No other news media reported this, so I really have my doubts about the veracity of this statement.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ocal-laws.html

Osem 06-08-2016 10:32
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
It's reported here (and in a number of other places) without any reference to the Daily Mail or any other source for that matter.

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/wor...quiry-resigns/

If she didn't say it I'd imagine she'd be pretty upset about these claims and possibly considering legal action.

I wouldn't be surprised that, given all the time off it's reported she took*, she was asked to resign. Whatever the truth, it's all starting to remind me of the FA's legendary mishandling of the national team's managerial issues...


*https://twitter.com/timesoneill

MalteseFalcon 08-08-2016 07:54
Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 
If she didn't specifically say it, then the newspaper where I read it is at fault. I was only repeating what I read.


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