Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

IIRC all schools are required to have an act of worship during the week for all pupils, which is total nonsense.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I'd be happier of our schools turned out more people who could read, write and add up to a satisfactory standard. People can practice whatever religion they want in their own time.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

If you look at it that way. they're required to worship.

"If I have to. I want to worship Allah"

"We don't do Allah here. you're white. you will worship the white God"

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

That's how hypocritical the system is.

they won't let you worship Satan. they don't do Satan.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

KSA (where I now live), is the home of Islam. And believe me, those in charge are very fundamental and their beliefs are very extreme. Islam is NOT a moderate religion. If you get 'moderate' muslims, it's because they CBA to do all that the Quran says. It's hard for me to describe how scary this actually is. My husband once said to me that muslims will take over the world. I laughed at this and told him to sod off. However, I find this possibility now very real, maybe not in mine, my children's or grandchildrens' lifetime (thank goodness). But it will happen. They're the only ones tenacious enough frankly. The UK needs to put a thumb on this now.

---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 ----------

No, but they'll take you to court for practising black magic. Especially if you're Ethiopian.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

If a religion is part of a school's ethos then it's common sense that prayers should be part of their day. I disagree that anyone be made to actually pray, so if they prefer to just stand there while those that want to take part can do so then fine.

---------- Post added at 11:09 ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 ----------

In the Arab states indeed it's a very different society. Over here however, there is enough in place to ensure that Muslims don't "take over". This investigation for example.

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

I'm sure that's true but it's not what I was saying - if a member of that school has circumstances or behaviour that is considered against the nature of the school you can then understand how issues can arise.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Or maybe those not religious could sing Hell Bells or something similar instead to pass the time ;)

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Sounds like the birth of 'direct action'... :D

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

It's the law ,every state school must provide "broadly Christian" acts of collective worship on a daily basis ,admittedly most schools to my knowledge do not adhere to that law as strictly as they used to when i was at school ,nevertheless because we are still a Christian society it is still the law

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...00114-2010.pdf

https://humanism.org.uk/education/pa...s-your-rights/

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Because, in the broadest sense, the school should reflect the community it serves and not be co-opted as an agent of change. The law about acts of worship was put in place in order to prevent schools becoming a place where liberal hand-wringers could try to exert a secularising influence on society. ;)

Of course, if society has changed, there then is an argument for the law to change. But changes should follow society, not lead it, and should not be rushed, as the temporary ebb and flow of fashion is not the same thing as deep, permanent change in cultural attitudes to religion.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Be interesting to see if changes do follow society, should it continue in its current direction.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

This is predicated on what exactly?

military might?

sheer size of population?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Muslims want everyone too covert or live by theirs rules and this is just another way they can try and do this, I don't have a problem with my child been taught RE but I don't want it forced on him like Muslims try to do, and before anyone says I am racist or Anti Muslim I am anti religion and wouldn't want any religion forced on my child.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Tenacity, unwavering belief, and non Islamic countries being to scared to tell them to bugger off. It's not scientific, it's purely an opinion on a possibility. Which, now living 70kms from Mecca, I firmly believe it is possible.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

:tu:

RE is taught at my son's school but the school does give a choice and if you do not your child involved for example there is a boy who is a Jehvovah witness and he does not get involved with the Christmas play etc and that is fine, I do not think religion should be forced on anyone.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Interesting post. Have another read of it. The boy is a Jehovah's Witness so doesn't get involved with many things that are actually more cultural than religious things now.

Really the boy is no more a Jehovah's Witness than he is a Labour, Conservative or UKIP voter. His parents are and are forcing their beliefs on him.

That's a debate for another time though, whether offending a parents' beliefs is an adequate reason for wanting exemption from their children. I have certainly never restricted my daughter from any activity, secular or religious, as it's important for her to try everything and at no point have I attempted to impress my own secularism or humanism on her. She can make up her own mind when she chooses to.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Good job it isn't then isn't it

---------- Post added at 10:06 ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 ----------

Wrong ,the parents are bringing the child up as they see fit as is their right ,as was the right of your parents .Saying that parents force religion on children is like saying that parents force children to go to school or force children to behave themselves

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

So what you're saying is that he chooses to go to school. and he chooses to behave himself.

or are you agreeing, but saying that it is part of bringing the child up?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

It's too complicated for you to understand so i'll not bother explaining

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

So it's the second one then.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

So what do you say to the religious types that knock on my door on a Saturday morning telling me i need to repent, i know what i say to them ;). They are FORCING they beliefs on me by invading my home and my time and trust me i get it a lot because there is one of there halls about a mile down the road from me. I think the fact i told them i was a hired killer for the Queen that makes them think i need to be made to repent :LOL:

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

They aren't forcing anything on you :rolleyes: ,you are not forced to say prayers or forced to go to their place of worship ,you are not even forced to answer the door

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

So you know who is behind a wooden door before you open it, let me know your secret of xray vision??. They have forced themselves on me because they have opened a gate and walked up my drive to knock on my door, which part of that is not forcing themselves on me ???

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I agree it's annoying - maybe a polite note on the gate or door would do the trick.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I do have one on my door and my gate but they ignore it. I even asked them once how fast the can run to the gate and would it be faster than my dog.

I think they must do a lot of training of new god bothers and send them to the local area to test them out. That means we are pestered with them.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Every now and then one of you Atheists come up with a ridiculous statement to prove that religion is being forced on you but you have just set the bar even higher .Maybe you should get the hall down the road removed so you are not 'forced' to look at it or 'forced' to walk past it
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Oh my you don't want to answer the question so decided to be an idiot. Nice one

I just want to be left in piece but they think otherwise and i don't go knocking on there doors do i. Maybe your right maybe a complaint about there constant unwanted visits to the council might help.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Well there's really no excuse for ignoring a polite notice if it's clearly displayed.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

When people turn up at my door, I just politely tell them that I'm not interested and that is it. No real big deal.

Any adverse Islamic education is going to take place outside of school anyway.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

You're actually answering a point I didn't make, presumably because you didn't like the connotations.

I'm not disputing their right to do it, merely pointing out the blindingly obvious. I don't take kindly to indoctrination whether it is done by parents or whoever else and think children should be allowed, within obvious frameworks, to make as many of their own decisions as possible.

Going to school is a legal requirement; good or bad behaviour, while rewarded or enforced as much as possible, ends up being a choice for the child. They can behave and be rewarded, or they can misbehave and be punished.

I seriously doubt the parents in question asked their child whether they wanted to celebrate Christmas or join in the activities surrounding it. I'm sure the child just loves seeing any friends he might have enjoying festive seasons.

See below - faith schools effect in italics.

Age % Non-Religious
Age 0 to 4 34.3
Age 5 to 7 29.1
Age 8 to 9 27.2
Age 10 to 14 27.6
Age 15 28.8
Age 16 to 17 30.4
Age 18 to 19 34.9
Age 20 to 24 37.6
Age 25 to 29 36.0

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

No, please do.

Again the post of mine you were quoting you disagreed that, because the child's parents had a label they chose, they were compelling him to carry that label. I would appreciate your pointing out where this statement was incorrect.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

It is you being an idiot and totally irrational ,someone knocking on your door is not by any stretch of your wild imagination forcing you to do anything .If a sales rep knocks on your door does that force you to buy their product ?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I say very nicely no thank you when a sales rep knocks on my door, when a Jehovah Witness knocks on my door I take a leaflet and thank you, must go now as I'm going out. Once the door is closed I just bin the leaflet end off. All is happy well apart from the sales rep I suppose.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

No ,you made the point that parents are "forcing " children to follow religion and i answered that point. It is not unreasonable for a child to be raised in the same faith (if any) as that of their parents,it is not forcing a child to follow Christianity or Islam ,where you forced to be an atheist or where you simply raised that way ?

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

Gary doesn't understand the rights of a parent to raise children as they see fit,and nor do you it seems .Parents make decisions that they deem appropriate for their children ,that may include religion ,atheism , home schooling,state schooling or the time a child goes to bed ,it is the parents choice not the states or anyone elses place to make those decisions

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I sense this is going to get funny.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

At no point did I disagree that it's the parents' choice or comment on how reasonable or otherwise it may be; I merely said that they were forcing the child into following the religion.

You are making absolutely no sense but are blustering that because parents have the right to 'raise children as they see fit' or 'make decisions that they deem appropriate' they don't force their children into their religion when, by raising them as they see fit and making decisions that they deem appropriate they force their children to adhere to the same religion and indeed ensure they are labelled as such.

It's speculation on my part but what you appear to be saying is that, when parents compel their children to follow their religion, through such things as in this case requiring that they don't join in Christmas activities at their school, it's in some way not compulsion but 'raising as they see fit'.

I would suggest that if it were 'raising' the child in that manner without compulsion there would be some element of choice involved on the part of the child as to whether they go to church, whether they pray, whether they are allowed to be in a nativity play. If there is no element of choice involved the chlid has been forced to adhere to their parents' religion. It's really a very simple premise.

You appear to be disagreeing with something I didn't say with a total fallacy.

Actually neither, and I love that you put it down as an either/or. I was raised in a household where one grand parent was somewhat religious, the other not in any way. I went to a strongly Church of England primary school where the assembly was quite heavily religious in nature.

I went to a secondary school which had a chapel attached, where acts of worship for all pupils were held. I was, for a couple of years, taken to church every Sunday with exactly no say in the matter. It was actually that which convinced me that while I can't say there is no God the ones that are worshipped are most definitely human constructs and there's precisely no evidence for them. I had a lovely, dramatic argument in which I said that I did not believe, would not believe, and refused to continue to attend.

So no, I was neither raised as an atheist or forced to be an atheist. I, perish the thought, actually made the decision for myself despite attempts to raise me as a Christian.

I don't raise my daughter as an atheist or force her to be an atheist either. She attended a Church of England junior school, and at no point have I discussed religion with her unsolicited. She happily sang Christian songs she learned at school, I happily listened to her regrettably awful singing voice :)

She has indeed asked me if I believe in God and I have told her that I do not, and elaborated on it when she asked me to explain. The matter hasn't been discussed since.

---------- Post added at 14:43 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ----------

It already did; just not 'ha-ha' funny merely 'bizarre'.

Off to ask, and if necessary force raise my daughter to tidy her room.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

which is not what happens and it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise .I went to church as a child simply because my parents did it was natural and i can assure you there was no forcing involved ,i don't bother now ,i am not that religious but never in my life have i ever been forced to either follow religion or not .Most religious families are as mine where ,they simply follow religion no one is forced to do anything and your continued implication that parents around the country are forcing children against their will shows a complete lack of understanding of what actually happens.


You make it sound as though children are being dragged kicking and screaming and tied into church pews ,you really have no idea do you .There is a very real difference in raising children in a particular manner or "forcing" them to do something but i would suggest that you already know that

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Just what I did with my two. I made it clear that they were and are free to follow their own course in regards to religion and that it is their choice to examine all beliefs and religions in a quest to seek some understanding of the universe.That just because I have one viewpoint does not make it the ONLY viewpoint.

---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------

Just how different do you think atheists bring up their children compared to a couple who are religious?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

You say all that and yet you want a secular education for everyone ,don't you see what's wrong with that ?


What seems clear to me is how intolerant some Atheists are ,especially on this forum .There is Sirius insisting he is being forced into following a religion because a jehovas witness knocked on his door ,Ignitionnet is of the belief that religious people are forcing their children into religion against their will and you want to deprive people of educational choice altogether ,not very tolerant at all

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Not really my definition of forcing themselves on me, unless their foot is in the way if the door when it's closed.

---------- Post added at 16:26 ---------- Previous post was at 16:25 ----------

Bad move, they'll come back, never take their literature or engage then in conversation unless you want them to return at some point in my experience

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

You've rather gone beyond comedy now to be quite honest and I have no desire to engage further in whatever passes as a discussion. My IQ is dropping every time I read and respond and I'm nearing a vegetative state. I even went as far as reading the entire conversation thread just to try and understand how it got to this point.

When you get the chance please do read back on what I actually wrote, rather than what you think I wrote, and what I was responding to rather than what you think I was responding to. Remember putting this in bold:

Look at what I referenced, and while you're at it read a dictionary.

The kid had no choice but to abide by his parents' beliefs, hence they were forced on him. It's really quite abundantly simple to most, apart apparently from those who suspend all logic when it comes to religion which admittedly can come with the territory to an extent.

EDIT: Incidentally I don't think there are religious people forcing children into religion against their will, I know there are. The kids aren't offered any alternative. This obviously doesn't apply to all religious people, that'd be an absurd generalisation along the lines of claiming:

In response to the statement:

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Parents force children into all sorts of things, every single day of the week, with good reason and with no ill effects. On the contrary, ill effects would often be the consequence of not asserting parental will over a child's.

I suspect Marty's objection stems from your decision to make a special case out of religious belief.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

The post in question discussed a decision stemming from religious beliefs, I'm not sure what else I could have responded to, it was the only thing a parent forced a child to do mentioned in the thread?

Had that been his objection perhaps he would've been better served to state that rather than the frankly bizarre objection the man actually raised.

What you say is, of course, entirely accurate.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Thank you Chris ,the use of the word 'force' and it's negative connotations is very objectionable imo .In the context of this discussion it is being used as a negative and something religious parents should be ashamed of

---------- Post added at 17:21 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Maybe you should use that massive IQ of yours and re read the thread .

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

They are not forcing anything on you.

If you object to them (and anyone else) knocking your door without invitation, legitimate purpose as part of their job you put up a sign saying as the homeowner/occupier you remove all implied right of access to anyone who does not have permission to be on your property.

If they or anybody else ignores that you have a valid case for trespass.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:01 ----------

On the subject of parents "imposing" or "forcing" their children in to a particular belief.

I've always said a religion or faith should be a personal choice. You cannot be made to believe anything, you simply decide for yourself whether or not it feels right. Yes people can try to influence you but the decision about whether it becomes 'part' of your life is down to the individual. And this is why I disagree with the way some religions (for example Catholicism) have the parents deciding that the child 'is' part of it. I was brought up as a Catholic, my parents made that decision for me however I got to a certain age and realised I didn't have a say in whether or I believed.

At no point am I ever going to say people shouldn't bring their children up that way, I simply disagree with it.

However as parents we have the absolute right and expectation to bring our children up the best way as we see fit. If I decide it's in my child's best interests to bring him/her up in a Christian lifestyle then no amount of New Atheist/Anti Religionist tripe is going to stop me.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

If someone comes your house to try and tell you what you believe is wrong and you should believe what they believe that is them trying to FORCE their beliefs on to you.

Parents should allow them to explore there own reliefs but if parents raise them by their beliefs then that's FORCING them.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

If they come to your house they are not forcing anything - you have given an implied right of access unless you have stated otherwise. In any case I've never heard of anyone having someone come to their door and telling them their beliefs are "wrong". That sounds more like a stereotype used by anti-religionists.

If they come in your house they cannot be accused of forcing anything on you.

If a child is being brought up to be a Manchester United fan are the parents 'forcing' that on them? If not where do you draw the line?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Is there a difference between forcing and encouraging at such a low age?

I believe RE is a good thing to get some kind of knowledge of religion but they should keep religion out of schools.

I'm all for banning children from religion till a certain age. It'll never happen but just my opinion.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

they are polar opposites ,one implies a degree of ill will towards the child ,the other is a gentle push towards a way of thinking

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

It should be covered under history lessons in my opinion. There is not a single reason why religion should have its own lessons. Another option is to replace RE lessons with a Morality, culture, world/life observations and philosophy type combined lesson

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

What if the child wants that religion?

Of course there is. To educate about religions.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

If it was banned they wouldn't know about it so they wouldn't want it.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

So to stop people "forcing" religion on children you would protect their freedom of choice by banning it all together ,and people call religion nuts :rolleyes:

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Only to the age where they could make their own decision. Not turning them into radicals etc.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Banned in what way? Removed from even being mentioned on TV, radio, on billboards? signs outside churches?

How do you legislate against that?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

What about the parents rights

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I haven't a clue to be honest. Discourage, in the way of not encouraging children to follow in their parents beliefs till they are old enough to decide for themselves.

RE to be dealt with properly, though I don't know what it's like now in schools, but in the 80's it was all a bit of a joke.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

So who would be in charge of this 'discouraging' and how would it be done?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Parents for starters, and school to teach and not preach.

I ain't saying that religion is bad, I don't think it's right for children to be involved till they are old enough to make up their own minds.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

RE has always been a bit of a joke ,it was rarely taken seriously ,perhaps if it was taken more seriously crackpot ideas like "ban religion from children" wouldn't be so prevalent

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

You just can't help yourself can you.

Discussion on this forum is getting harder and harder to participate in these days.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

you're the one with the stupid ideas .

---------- Post added at 20:19 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------

Maybe we should just ban it then .

Seriously though look at what you posted and then tell me you are serious

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

An you're the one who just loves to argue and insult. No point in discussing when you're around is there.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Teenagers split along two lines..Those who accept their parent's beliefs and those who reject them..and the vast majority of parents don't indoctrinate their children anyway.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

So you're suggesting parents be banned from discussing religion with their kids in their own homes. 'Banned' as in illegal?

You mean in the way the vast majority of schools do right now?

So what if a child has RE homework and asks its parents for help? Are they banned from discussing it then?

So you think the fairest and balanced way is to remove the opportunity for it to be discussed?

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

Nobody is trying to prevent you from discussing anything but if you're going to say religion should be banned for children until they're "old enough" how would you react if religious people suggested that parents be banned from discussing atheism or secularism?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

No I didn't mean ban as in outright, as we all know that's impossible. And stupid, and to mean it as illegal, that's just crazy.

I'm all for teaching, but less on the preaching at an early age. Would be a better way to say it.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

It is a stupid idea ,it has been tried in the past and it never ends well ,history proves that

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Ok, I think we're getting a bit closer to reality now. The thing is what you may consider to be 'less' preaching could be regarded as the correct amount or 'not enough' to someone else. By saying parents should be 'banned' from discussing religion with their kids or reducing it, you're coming across as if you're trying to preach your views on to us....indeed telling us we're "wrong" and informing us how we should live our lives.

But back to your suggestion, what sort of things would be permitted to be discussed?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

in other words keep things as they are now pretty much

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I didn't say banned from discussing. I admit 'banned' was the wrong word as it's too strong obviously.

I agree with you when you say I'm telling you which is wrong I do admit that now as you've said it, but that's how these religious thread go (and easily so) unfortunately.

I just think children should be old enough to make up their own minds, that's all.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

100% agree with that, the issue however is the people who think Religious Education is another way to force kids in to religion are usually the same ones who think parents bringing their children up in a Christian environment will be forcing/brainwashing it in to them.

Nothing to suggest either are correct.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

That is nearly always the case

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

American parents and children are really bad for it.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Care to prove that, religion is only for people that followers anyways, it causes more problems

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Asking martyh to prove his point whilst making an unsubstantiated claim of your own....

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

The number of teenagers and people in general not going to church would suggest that they are not being forced and they are exercising their right not to be religious

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Why? Do we have lessons specifically to educate children about cults? Oh wait...

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

To combat some of the appalling and ignorant misconceptions about religions.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

:tu:

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Why do you think this needs a whole dedicated class? People have misconceptions about many things, we don't have a dedicated class for each of them. Should we start having lessons dedicated to misconceptions of cults?

Religions are just cults that have more people following them when you break it down to it's basics. If half the world were Scientology followers then that would be considered ok and we would be debating if the followers could wear Darth Vader masks (whatever their thing is) in public facing jobs. That may sound strange but that is exactly what we do with older, more established religions.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

This whole thread really underlines why I think religion should be left at the school gates and RE as a subject should be taught as a multi-faith subject only.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

How many of these 'things' you speak of have such strong defining connections to history and society today? How many have or had some form of influence in almost everything we do?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

How often do you answer a question with a question? Answer some of my questions and i'll answer yours ;)

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Is that going in. or coming out?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Because of what you have just written .To equate Christianity ,Islam,Judaism etc to cults makes it clear that you have little or no understanding of religion and what it is ,that is the fault of the education system as much as yours so not a personal dig .

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

In order for me to answer the first question I need you to qualify the sentence that followed it.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

The difference being just a 'God'?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Explain a little clearer please. I had RE lessons while I was at school, so obviously RE lessons don't do what you would personally like them to do.

Christianity, Islam, Judaism are just cults that took hold many years ago and have a lot of followers. Are you saying this is not true? If so, explain why.

Personally I think people should be allowed to follow their belief in a religion, no matter what I feel about them. Just against having religion in schools.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

What, educate you about religions of the world?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I went to Sunday School.

do they still do Sunday Schools?

That's actually a good point. all started as cults.
todays cult could be the next big thing.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

No, we are talking about concepts of religion, not the history of individual religions. Helps if you read the posts so you can understand the conversation.

Passive aggressive questions don't really add much substance to your views.

---------- Post added at 23:41 ---------- Previous post was at 23:40 ----------

It's really that simple :)

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

RE lessons have always been a bit of a joke lesson ,only there because the law says they have to be .If religion was taught at schools more seriously then there would be a better understanding of how religion influences all our lives .

There is imo a clear difference between a religion and a cult .A religion influences society ,sets laws and moral boundaries ,cults are generally just an offshoot of a mainstream religion like Christianity

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I'm the intelligent one :nutter: :)

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Thanks for attempting to answer this.

So if we let a cult start setting laws and influencing out life's, then it becomes a religion. I am sure you would rebound in horror if Scientology became more influential in politics and thus became more accepted as religion in the way of Christianity. That is my view on current religions. They should not have anything to do with the state, laws or my daily life. I am not religious so why should these things be allowed to dictate my life? They shouldn't.

But what you say boils down to what I said, a religion is a cult that has got accepted in to society enough to interfere with the politics of the world.

Yes we should have a moral code and some get it from religion. I understand that. What I don't understand is how intelligent people believe in any of the gods from any of the main religions. Yes there is strong evidence to show that Jesus existed was a real person that was written about but if anyone said they were the son of god today, no one would believe them. That is because we are more educated than those in the past.

So teach kids about religion as part of history, just not as a separate lesson. If parents want to teach their kids, let them do it. It would be good if religion wasn't forced upon kids but there is no way to police this.

---------- Post added at 23:58 ---------- Previous post was at 23:56 ----------

Fine line between genius and insanity :dozey:

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

The thing to understand is that society develops around a particular religion ,most of our own laws ,traditions and our general way of life is a direct result of how Britain embraced Christianity ,other countries develope according to the religion they adhere to .Cults can never become a religion in that sense ,some do become large and gain the status of a religion Scientology being one such case although it still has a long way to go to be fully accepted

Religion today is a massive part of our lives with the sudden introduction of Islam into our communities ,this thread is proof that there are problems with the integration of different religions as there always has been throughout history so i see RE as even more important than ever before

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

funnily enough my son accused me of trying to force him to adopt my team, I had a clear and frank discussion with him that his choice of employment, sexual orientation, partner, religion, political choice or lunch where entirely up to him but if he ever supports anyone other than the hammers then his sister kops the lot.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

I stand corrected.

This has gone beyond "funny".

Well done all concerned.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

RE classes teach pupils about the different religions. I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions about which other 'things' you think have been as influential as religion.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Meanwhile, back on the topic, the Telegraph has got hold of a leaked copy of a report made by inspectors from the DfE after a visit to some Birmingham schools last month. The report substantiates a lot of the complaints that have been made and the governing bodies of the schools concerned are thoroughly peeved that the information has gone public.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...n-Muslims.html

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Religion can be so evil. all this is down to religion.

You wouldn't be reading this about British schools before now.
but now you are.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Have they put the school into special measures yet? Send in other teachers, suspend those running it etc?