Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Well the police are online these days and have instant access to sites we the public have no access to, I'm fairly sure they can check car tax and insurance instantly.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

when you post incorrect information you will be challenged on it ,your objections to the disc being scrapped where based on incorrect information

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

That is OK if the information held electronically is correct 100% of the time which it is not.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

which is exactly why the disc is now obsolete and what we have been trying to explain to Banjo for the last few posts ;)

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ----------

It has been in the past so why would it change just because a piece of paper is being scrapped .

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

So all the information held on motorists electronically is 100% correct, that is rubbish !

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

We aren't talking about "all the information held on motorists"are we ,we are only talking about valid vehicle tax and as i explained before if you are that worried then keep your receipt it's up to you

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

And as I have said I have a receipt already it is called a tax disc it should not be changed

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

well it is and rightly so ,it simply is not needed

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I fully intend my next car to be in band A - i.e. liable for £0 tax, so am completely relaxed about whether I need to have a tax disc, or not.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

That is your opinion, not mine this system has served us well for 93 years if it ain't broke don't fix it

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

some would say it is broke though ,given modern technology it is very easy to produce a convincing copy of a tax disc

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Which will not be of any help because of your perfect electronic system ?

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

but it will stop people counterfeiting tax discs

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

That is an assumption on your part a police officer can scrutinise a tax disc at the road side to check it's validity job done

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

How is it an assumption?? there can be no illegal trade in counterfeit tax discs if there is no such thing as a tax disc

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

That is your assumption ??

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

They can still print them if they want :)

I'd say there will be more people driving on the road without valid tax than there were before with this scrapping of the tax disc.
it's obvious that because the neighbour or anybody in the street can't see that it's not taxed. then the people who would drive it on the road will do so more because they have protection of not knowing that there is no tax.

oh. yes. I'm forgetting the police.

if anyone was paranoid, then you might think that this move is to lessen the workload of the police by not taking any reports of no road tax and acting on them. because they've hidden it from the public.

it saves money. and it makes money. so that's a bonus.

I feel sorry for al them tax disc holder makers that will be out of a job.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Well we will see won't we.Personally I'm not going to get stubborn about it and apart from moderating the thread to see that civility is observed and that there is no more topic drift I won't be continuing the argum...errrr debate.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I think its a daft idea. If you take a policeman walking down the street where there`s lots of cars parked in a row, he can at the moment just by glancing at the tax disc see if it`s out of date or not there at all and can also observe everything else going on around him/her. With no disc there, he isnt going to have a clue.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Yeh. you could ask him directions whilst blatantly standing at the front of the car trying to attract his attention to your 'Tax is in the post' thing where your tax disc used to be.

I'll probably leave mine on when it starts.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

It's not an assumption ,it's a fact .There will be no tax discs so therefore there will be no illegal ,forged or counterfeit discs ,i'm not sure how big that black market is but it will disappear overnight

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

You can't get tax without insurance so it's a bit of an indicator you might not.have any, nothing more

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

ANPR checks go against the DVLA databases. disc or not on the windscreen, an ANPR check will show whether the car is insured, taxed and last MOT date I thought. forging a paper disc hardly holds much point these days.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

It's more for a passing nosey policeman, nosey neighbours, nosey traffic warden, and all people nosey.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

martyh, it isn't 100% correct and that is a problem, as the MID do not claim that their database is 100% accurate. I did some research on this a few years ago, and whilst the MID was something like 97% or so accurate that still means that at any point in time thousands of cars on the road may not be on the database.

Also if the police may attempt to check with the insurance company out of hours, if they are unable to make contact it is likely that the vehicle will be impounded. The one company I was insured with only had a premium rate number during office hours and email for all other contact, I'm sure Mr Plod would be unlikely to accept my word for it that I'm legal.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

most police cars don't have anpr iirc

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

What has vehicle tax got to do with MID(motor insurance database) details of tax on vehicles is held on the DVLA database ,not MID ,you are confusing the 2 data bases

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Considering the amount of ANPR cameras sprouting up everywhere i think they will soon be able to do you with a fine via the post if your car is picked up by the system. You only have to drive down Princes parkway into Manchester to see how many are being installed.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Just a reminder of the upcoming car tax disc changes.

From 1st October 2014 we can all remove our car tax discs from our windscreens and throw them away.

From 1st November 2014 vehicles needing to be taxed can do so via Direct Debt, Annually, 6 monthly or Monthly, you can also do this online or via the phone or post office.

More info here.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Still a crap idea with all attention on short term savings with no thought for the bigger picture.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I will keep my disc on display until it runs out just in case some Traffic Warden or Police personal does not remember about the law change.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Can't see any point removing it early if it's not required - although tbh it's more likely to members of the public who forget about the change rather than the police etc.

Will be interesting to see how many people get reported by 'concerned citizens'

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Deffo going to keep mine displayed 'til it runs out next year. We'r up to our armpits in interfering busybodies concerned citizens and take-no-prisoners traffic wardens down here. :(

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Quite right Ben it will be interesting, also if you use the Dartford Crossing in Kent, from October 1st the barriers will be gone and you will have to book text, e-mail, phone to pay for the crossing. Camera number plate recognition will be inforce.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

This is the bit that may catch people out.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Good. Although not sure how they'll manage the funnelling into the tunnel on the anti-clockwise side.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

That could catch people twice, buyer has to get a new tax and vendor has to remember to cash in their remaining tax.

Could be a tidy little earner for HMG. :(

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Especially halfway in the month since you can only claim back full months.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Automatic refund AFAIK.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Yes that is correct.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

this is a disaster, the tax disc should be left as it is !

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Indeed why change something which is not broken.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I still feel that VED should be scrapped and the money raised through fuel taxation. Not easy to cheat, and the more you use, the more you pay.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Does this new method mean the motorist gets to tax their car cheaper, as i can't remember?

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

At the present moment in time the police have instant access to all details on your car..they know if you have a current licence,MOT,current insurance and that you have paid your car tax.How is not having a Tax disc any sort of failure or disaster.

There will be no more counterfeit tax discs for one thing..:tu:

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

i am glad i won't have to have it on my windscreen and if i am not mistaken it will auto renew which makes life easier when paying via direct debit.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

FYI, as I couldn't see it posted already, this is the link for to check for us 'normal' people https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax

You only need the reg and make of car, and actually gives details of the MOT as well as the VED.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Counterfeit ones are pretty rare and good quality counterfeit ones rarer still but having a legit one allows the Police and traffic wardens to tell a whole host of things about the car without having to get a PNC check over the radio.

If all cops had PDAs and ANPR equipped cars it would be better but as it is this takes away a simple way to checks things for very little gain.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

ANPR, plus the new rules allowing police (and probably "agents of the police") to fine motorists automatically for things like lane-hogging, tailgating, etc., etc. will see coffers swell I reckon. The loss of the tax disc has enabled use of ANPR cameras to explode.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

The problem is no one likes change.:shrug:

I frankly am glad to be spared the annual wait in line on the last day of the month to acquire a tax disc and have been more than happy to pay for it online in recent years..some changes are very much an improvement.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

They've hardly gone nuts with the new powers since having them.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/ryed...enalty_powers/

So roughly 1 a week for a single force, with processing costs it's not exactly going to wipe out the UK deficit anytime soon.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Wonderful, look forward to that

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

The Dartford crossing was only supposed to have a toll for access until the bridge was paid for. That target was hit a couple of years ago so really they shouldn't be charging for that at all.

All the ANPR tracking stuff makes me want to clone a number plate, just to avoid another ways our lives are indiscriminately logged and added to databases and tracked.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

The tax disc's end has come. As it stands its been legal to drive for up to 5 days at the start of the month on your old tax disc if you've ordered one online for a fair while now.

MOTs have gone the same way. Now that they're fully computerised the MOT "certificate" is simply a printed receipt now.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

The original Mersey tunnel was meant to be free donkeys years ago when it was paid for but never happened.
They are building a second bridge at Runcorn and when thats finished there will be a toll over both Runcorn bridges. So any of us over here will have to pay to get into Liverpool unless we go on a huge detour via the motorway.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Downside is of course that the lack of a valid VEL can only be detected cameras now and not by local beat bobbies. Lack of VEL isn't a huge problem but it's indicative of possible uninsured cars and cars without MOT.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

A simple radio call can check if a car's Taxed, MOT'd or Insured.

Indeed, anyone with a smartphone can check all three of those on any car in minutes.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

askMID isn't always 100% accurate though.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

That is true, but neither is a traditional tax disc at indicating valid insurance. You can easily buy a 6/12 month tax disc with only weeks/days of MOT and insurance remaining.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

And how does the cop decide which car to do a check on? If only there was some form of visual way to check, maybe a small paper disc that could be displayed in the windscreen.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

You don't even have to have valid insurance to get a tax disk, just the certificate. Dishonest people have been getting away with that for years.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I think the point is that you don't. the more illegal cars brought back on the roads under cover the better. they're now having to buy fuel and all the rest that comes with motoring. they will boost the economy by spending money that they may not have spent before when they weren't using the car.

call it an amnesty.
only, when you get caught you pay some money.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I have within the last 3 months seen the police sitting at the side of the road with an ANPR camera and then all the number plates will be run through the DVLA computer.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

And?

My point is a tax disc of a parked car provides a myriad of information about the vehicle and can prompt further digging. ANPR cameras won't do this and can be bypassed remarkably easily.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Specifically?

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

It will show if the car is running on cloned plates for a start. It also can give indications of where the car has been that can prompt further questioning, give clues about the existence or otherwise of insurance and give rise to questions / intelligence about the driver that lead to other crimes.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Maybe the will spend their time catching real criminals instead of looking for an easy catch with motorists.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Uh huh. Because a check of a car has never turned up drugs, weapons or that the car is stolen.

Unless they aren't real crimes in your eyes of course.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

What does a tax disc record about the driver? Answer: Nothing.

What does a tax disc record about the car's *current* insurance status? Answer: Nothing.

And as for the validation stamp from the post office indicating where a car's been, that's nonsense since on line taxation came in as all online tax discs have the same stamp.

And as for cloned plates, do you really think someone using cloned plates would bother with valid tax in the first place?

---------- Post added at 11:01 ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 ----------

And what fires off most of these "checks"?

Is it Dixon of Dock Green checking the tax discs of parked cars?

Or is it the ringing bells of the car mounted ANPR kit checking cars as they go past...

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Im quite sure someone will soon make an "ANPR" app, so you just point your phone at the number plate, click on a button, and it checks it with the online sites. In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if such an app already existed (I have not searched).

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Some companies already get lots of info from the DVLA's databases... for a fee of course.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I'll tell you what, when you have a clue come back and we can talk further.

If you really need it spelt out for you I will.

When a car gets stolen it currently has a tax disc with the correct VRM on it. The thieves then can put stolen or cloned plates on the car.
This means the car can sail through as many ANPR checks as it wants. It can also pass most police checks unless the cop starts checking VIN numbers.

However if during a stop check or when walking past a cop notices the VRM of the car and tax disc don't match then alarm bells start ringing.

They also provide CLUES about a host of other things.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

And of course no-one's ever printed up a false tax disc to go with the false plates...

And when was the last time you saw a copper walking up a street checking discs?

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I'll hazard a guess that Derek has actually done so. ;)

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Made up a fake tax disc? Well it easier now that the ones through the post aren't even being supplied on perforated paper after the DVLA ran out!

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Well not recently but certainly in he past and got some cracking results too. :D

As I've said before fake tax discs are rare. Good quality ones are even rarer, most criminals aren't that bothered about covering their tracks past the most cursory efforts.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Scrapping the discs could cost 167 million pounds a year, that's some saving we made there

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/512...-Treasury-167m

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I think they know this already.

they will make money by thousands of cars being sold mid month. so where it's already been paid for. the new owner will have to pay for a whole new month. so DVLA will have extra money from that.

the illegal cars coming out will have to buy petrol. so money will be made from that.

many more cars will be cloned.

it will be harder to buy and sell a car now.
before people would buy a car that had a few months tax left on it. reason was that they didn't want to register the car, bought it as a run around. or just spur of the moment purchase.
now they will think twice.

less crime for the police to do. so cutting the amount of police won't matter as much.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

that old Guinness label has served me well for years

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

With only a few days to go, a neighbour has been done for "failure to display a valid tax disk" even though they had bought a new one at the end of last month.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Haha, he should have waiting until October 1st.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

"could" is the operative word there a bit of speculation by the RAC .What it will mean is that uninsured drivers will not be able to buy a car with tax on it because the tax stays with the owner/seller so someone buying a car will have to take insurance before they can tax it

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

will we still get a reminder in the post that the tax is about to expire ?

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

The unused VED stays with the seller .So if i sell a car to you i can either get a refund or transfer the remaining tax onto a new car .It has never been possible to get refunds for partial months .The biggest improvement will be the introduction of Direct Debit monthly payments helping people spread the cost of buying tax over the year

---------- Post added at 13:03 ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 ----------

Yes,or you can set up a DD to pay monthly and simply keep it active ,this will also have the effect of scrapping the surcharge if you choose pay 6 monthly by DD

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

It doesn't. you'll automatically get a refund on the tax. but only full months. (full months were the same as before. when you returned the disc) now when you sell a car on say the 15th Oct. the new buyer will have to buy from the 1st Oct. so there's 2 weeks money that was paid for before. when you sold the car. which has to be paid again. the idea being that cars will be sold mid month. which is where they make millions. if not billions in revenue. where before they couldn't if the tax was (transferred) sold with the car to the new owner.

the transfer is the main objective of this scam.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Why don't we all just sell/buy our cars at the end of the month and foil their cunning plan?

Meanwhile, back at Mr Reality's house, there are 29 million cars in the UK at this time - if 20% of these are bought/sold every year, and the average car tax rate is £300 (estimating on the high side), that means that 6 million X monthly refund amount(£300 /12 = £25), means that approx. £150 million per year - probably more likely to be around £100 million. So not billions...... Around a fiver for every car in the UK each year - less than a gallon of petrol per car.....

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Funny u should say this my dad had one of these last month and his tax disc IS on display and isn't up until end of March 2015.

He rang the DVLA and stated clearly that the tax disc is on display, the tax disc is a disabled tax disc on a disability car that he had April 1st this year and they told him disregard the letter.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

They've run out of tax discs now anyway, my pal said he'd got something that looked suspiciously like a photo copy sent out for him to use for the next few days

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

That has always been the case if the seller wants a refund and the buyer has to tax the car ,it's always been that the tax is purchased from the 1st of the month .
I wasn't aware that any refund was automatic ,that being the case then DVLA will most likely stand to lose as most cars sold will be on dealer forecourts who won't have to tax the vehicles and the refund will triggered as soon as the owner notifies DVLA of the change of ownership

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

You're learning.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:32 ----------

I know that. but now because you can't transfer the tax to the new owner. 2 weeks tax will be paid for but lost. as the new owner can't have the 2 weeks remaining. he has to pay for a whole new 4.

if you still don't get it. just leave it :)

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Which has always been the case when buying an untaxed car ,it's not a scam or a way for DVLA to get more money in fact they will most likely neither gain nor lose as most cars are sold through the trade .
Seeing the fuss this has caused what will people do next year when the paper counterpart for licences is abolished :rolleyes:

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

We're not talking about an untaxed car. and no I'm not shouting.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

For the people who state 'facts' but are wrong. there's a 5% surcharge if you pay by direct debit. (probably rise to around 10% not long after launch)

Hold on, doesn’t that mean that if I sell my car in the middle of a month then the new owner and I will both end up paying tax for that month?

Yes, unfortunately.

and this one is funny.

If my car doesn’t have a tax disc, how will the authorities know that I have paid?

Your tax details will be registered with the DVLA so they will be aware which cars are taxed correctly. Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) devices will be around to catch out any cars that aren’t taxed appropriately.

Just like they do now with uninsured drivers. cars with no MOT.

Have they made it so I can't grass somebody up for driving a car with no TAX?

Yes.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/tax-....vbf4m4zQ.dpuf

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

No just a bit more difficult. You can go on gov.uk and look up a reg no and the car make and see if its taxed and MOT'd

I've done it in a car park while waiting for my wife to finish shopping :D

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

From the 1st October all cars sold are sold as untaxed .As soon as the car changes owner the tax is cancelled and an automatic refund issued to the previous owner (as you pointed out) .So we are talking about untaxed cars and the tax will be bought from the start of the month as has always been the case and refunds will be for complete months as has always been the case .It may be the case that in the future tax can be purchased on a daily basis and refunded to the day but until then the only difference is that there will be no paper disc in the corner of your windscreen .The other difference is that I won't have to chase up a new tax disc from my lease company and they won't have to post hundreds out to their customers

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

The MOT check is a good one.
you can tell people that their MOT is coming up. and they'll think you're magic :)

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

I know. but read this part slowly.....

before when you could transfer the tax disc with the car. DVLA wouldn't get 2 lots of money for 2 weeks worth of tax.
now with the changes it will be paid for twice.

Now if you buy a car say today. you'd have to tax it from the 1st of this month.

where before if the seller left the tax on. you could drive it away and pay for tax from the 1st of next month instead.

please tell me you get it now so I don't cry over my Sunday dinner.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

I'm in 2 minds about the ability to check on insurance, tax and MOTs online. On one hand it helped me once when a previous insurance company messed up my policy and a niggling feeling after I spoke to them led me to keep checking on the MID site and I found out my insurance wasn't valid due to their error. Had I needed to make a claim in that time they reckon they'd have covered me but still I couldn't have done without the hassle. Plus if someone has left a car in your street for days you can have a good idea whether or not it's been abandoned.

But I think there's going to be a big element of snooping when more people realise the details can be checked. I'm not saying untaxed/uninsured/unsafe cars should be left alone but I can't help wondering if one of the ideas behind this is to take a little bit of pressure off the police and allow the public to investigate and report things themselves....or even 'encourage by other means' the owner to get the car legalised. I've never really been a fan of vigilante justice.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

If you think about it. they're telling you that you can check whether a car is taxed and/or MOT'd and they provide the facility to be able to do it. then I doubt that it's just there for you to check your own details. so yes. it's to encourage society to grass each other up. we've been doing it before now with TV licence, benefit cheats and all the rest. we do all the work. and get used to hating each other. and they reap the benefits.

Re: The Car tax disc is to be scrapped after 93 years
 

Gary ,I have always 'got it' I just don't make a big deal out of it ,the downsides are far less than the up sides ,all you have to do is choose the time to sell a car it really isn't that big of a deal