Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Well what's the difference? This guy was recorded shooting the guy and it was clear that they weren't in any danger, knew they weren't in any danger and knew what he did was wrong. It was all recorded and the shooter said the words himself. If that is permissible then I really don't see how it isn't the same as have carte blanche to murder someone...

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

The difference is clear. It's not the same because quite clearly our troops don't go around routinely executing people for no reason. This was a rare event and the guy is being rightly punished. He's being judged and punished by standards which the other side don't give 2 hoots about and would not apply in the reverse direction. That's what makes our troops significantly better than them. Not perfect, not saints but better and IMHO some of the very best in the world.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

He's the enemy, put it this way if the shoe was on the other foot would he have done the same? fu cking better believe it sunshine!

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Well then what are we disagreeing about? He is being rightly punished as you said. I agree that the standards don't go both ways which is why we're fighting in the first place.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

You tell me - you were the one who questioned what I'd written not the other way around. You were implying this incident is no different from an effective carte blanche policy to murder within the forces and I explained how it is different.

I made it quite clear at the start of this thread that what happened was wrong and the guy ought to be punished but I'm not going to accept anyone comparing our troops with terrorists.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

:clap::clap::clap:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

No. I was implying that if we didn't prosecute this case, a case where there was a clear execution of a wounded combatant when there was no danger to the marines, then it would be an effective carte blanche policy.

See:

I made it quite clear at the start of this thread that what happened was wrong and the guy ought to be punished but I'm not going to accept anyone comparing our troops with terrorists.[/QUOTE]

and I wasn't doing that either.

In fact I don't think anyone was comparing our troops in terrorists. We're talking about a murder conviction here.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Governments pay for a force which will protect its people, & its allies. War has changed, gone are the days of trench warfare, gentlemen s agreements, the real truth is simple, as the boys who took the Normandy beaches said, Germans were surrendering by the dozen, & we shot them. If we had left them, they would have re armed & shot us in the back. Murder. The Germans executed allied soldiers who were troublesome, remember the 50? The Great Escape. fact, not fiction.

When your enemy performs atrocities like this, what do you expect, its tit for tat. You have to be there, pumped with adrenalin, ar*e cheeks tight as a drum, your training keeping you on auto till things settle down. Then you feel like you've done a weeks work & someone dropped a truck on you.

I gave my 3 sons the same advice before they joined Junior Leaders, that my Father gave me, shoot twice & be sure.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Iranian Embassy 2 SAS commando's execute 2 surrendered terrorists.
What we're their rules of engagement?

Random Brazillian is shot dead by Armed Police in the aftermath of 7/7
Who was thought to be a suicide bomber and failed to stop after being told to by police who acting acting under instruction killed him.

Male is shot dead in a London Cab for possession of a firearm. He didn't fire upon officers.
Police following their standard rules of engagement thought they were under imminent threat and shot him
Marine shoots dead an insurgent in Afghanistan (is punished for it
Who acted outside their rules of engagement and were not under threat (according to the evidence) shot and killed someone.


As far as I can tell very different circumstances
J

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Your arguing with some that would not have a clue what your on about because they have not been there and never will there. ;)

---------- Post added at 21:56 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ----------

The good old double tap :)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Perhaps now people will grasp the concept eh?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

The brazillian had a headset on... showed no signs of possessing a bomb and was repeatedly shot. This has since been made very clear.

The lad in the cab had no firearm in his hand and made no move for it. He again was executed on a coppers hunch. An Armed response officer is to attempt to defuse a situation and attempt to attain a peaceful outcome but it's very clear in this case they ran over to a cab window and scattered it with bullets. They've gotten away with it due to a gun being on the person but it was never pointed or used to threaten. Even American police wait until there's a legitimate threat to open fire.

The 2 surrendered terrorists from the iranian embassy were dragged back into the embassy from the custody of police then executed. Last time I checked execution is illegal in this country regardless of your engagement rules.

Saying they're justified is a very dangerous place to go. It's basically giving the impression you're free to shoot anyone as long as you think they are a threat. The SAS execution broke every law in the book.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I'm Glad he shot him

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

does not make us wrong though.
And seeing as the military court and a Maj General both think he is guilty of a crime shows there is a fair chance your may be ;)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

presumably the taliban will be sending stiff letters to all those who have mutilated and towed around behind cars memebers of western forces - and presumably us western victims will have no recourse to compensation in their 'courts'

it's a bloody joke


"charging a man with murder in this place is like handing out speeding tickets at the indy 500" - Apocalypse Now quote

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

It's not clemency it's called mitigation and it's used in court all the time, bet this chap ends up being used as a scape goat so we can show the Afghan's how civilised we are. Help torture a baby to death and be out in five years, kill some ******* that was trying to kill you moments earlier and get sold down the river by the government that sent you there, what a country.

---------- Post added at 01:52 ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 ----------

Considering the allies jailed Germans for shooting prisoners I say your examples aren't helping your argument.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I have never said he is not guilty, i say he should not have been in front of a judge in the first place. ;)

---------- Post added at 06:58 ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 ----------

Our troops are fighting people who have never signed or agreed to the Geneva convention and should therefor not be protected or covered by it.

---------- Post added at 06:59 ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 ----------

Thats why we are now the weak arsed country we have become

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes a conviction has happened and the argument is now about whether there are mitigating circumstances which I believe there are.

As for comparing troops with terrorists, certainly one 'member' did and yesterday, and in a comment (removed before I had time to respond to it) you made a comment (in response to one of my posts) which, in the brief time it was visible to me, gave me the distinct impression that, given what had happened, you felt our forces could be classed as little better than terrorists. Maybe had you not deleted that post I'd have had the time to form a different, more accurate, impression of what you wrote or maybe not... ;)

Anyway I'm glad you've clarified what you think so in your case the cap doesn't fit and you've no need to wear it... ;)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I know and that's not the point I made.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

that imo does not help your argument. He should have been clever and not done it on film but he got caught justice has to be seen to be done or our society which is built on us being civilised crumbles

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

In this case I don't think there is that much. The only mitigating circumstance is that he is at war but if that was used as a valid migration that it is carte blanche for all members of the armed forces in the battle field. This specific case seems to be quite clear cut, it was recorded, the guy was evidently no threat anymore, the shooter vocalised sentiments that he knew he was breaking the law and that there would be consequences if he was caught.

If such a clear case of executing a wounded enemy still merits an exemption then where would the line actually be?

I said that we were not as we have such rules. The important thing is to abide by them because they're what separate us from the terrorists. If he still start abiding by their rules ("There you are. Shuffle off this mortal coil. It's nothing you wouldn't do to us.") then we've lost something important.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes, he's guilty. of something.

The insurgent had been shot by an Apache helicopter, I'd be suprised if he would have lived much longer, and the marine probably did him a favour.

In the circumstances I think a suspended sentence would be sufficient.

Whoever found this footage, should have just wiped it.

If anyone should be in front of the judge it should be Blair, Brown and Cameron.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I completely agree, however, there is no argument, I`m simply trying to inform people about war. My reference to the 50 is probably the most remembered. Depending on the circumstances some prisoners were executed simply because there were no facilities or manpower to hold them prisoner. There are examples where troops have saved the lives of the enemy, instead of terminating it. War is a completely different world to the one we live in.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

But these laws are set by the military aren't they? It was a military court and investigation from my understanding.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Why remove that comment then? It's hardly contentious... ;)

My understanding of what you'd written was that defending this incident made us 'not much better' than the terrorists and I've heard a few people saying the same. To those who do think that and still can't see the difference, I would say it's this: our forces clearly try very hard to have different standards from those of the terrorists and rightly so. In this case one individual acted in this manner for reasons we can only guess at. It was one breach, not official policy, not rules of engagement or common occurrence and it wasn't done indiscriminately simply because the guy was of a different religion. It was done because he was an enemy who'd earlier been attacking our troops and for one reason or another one of our soldiers decided he'd had enough and finished him off. That was wrong and the name given to the crime may still be murder but it doesn't put the solider in question on anywhere the same level as the terrorist and his actions clearly don't represent the vast majority.

There is obviously no carte blanche to act in this manner and the fact that a prosecution has resulted is the best possible proof of that. Mitigation whether strong or weak doesn't alter that fact.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

This guy was caught. Video & audio. He will be convicted. I`m just saying these things do happen, sometimes due to fear, sometimes due to training, sometimes its made clear that you should not take prisoners, sometimes it just plain murder, but it does happen. Different people will have different opinions.

None of us will ever know because we were not there at the time. We don't know what had happened previously, had this guy had just lost some colleagues, what was his mindset at the time.

Unless he is booby trapped, a dead insurgent is no threat, a wounded one is. All British forces operate under Queens regulations, an endless list of them, all superseded by a small list of exceptions, determined by operational & task requirements. This is why SF can operate freely, they "Murder" people all the time, in the national interest.

I`m not saying Marine A was under such orders, just that incidents like this do happen, if sanctioned, OK, if not, take your chance.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

this was none of those

We do know because he says on video what he was doing he deliberately and knowingly broke the geneva convention what happened leading upto this is irrelevant. He is a professional soldier. TBH the attitudes of ex squaddies here are not strengthening my faith in the armed services but degrading it

Its called bang to rights

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes. But, there could be mitigating circumstances. My point is, we just don't know.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

the court would have .....

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Because I thought you were making a slightly different statement to what you did when I reread it. I thought you were dismissive of the notion that we follow a different set of rules when in fact you were proud of it. My post didn't add anything other than reinforcing what you said.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------


But the video was shown the court and they clearly were sure of what happened and convicted.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...execution.html

We can't see the video as it was deemed to inflammatory by the judge who thought it would aid terrorism and put more troops in danger. A gift for terrorist propaganda. However that does seem pretty shocking. The court was clearly convinced this was done intentionally and the man posed no threat. There was a level of calculation to it by moving him out of sight and asking for the silence of his fellow marines.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

The courts have seen the evidence & ruled, on this occasion it was recorded, if it hadn't been, we probably wouldn't even hear about it, but we on this Forum can not make a judgement about something without the facts.

A Court Martial uses Military rules & regs, which can differ from a civvy court. It uses Queens Regulations, & some offences still carry the Death Penalty.

Even though the case has been heard, we may never know the full facts.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

surely the only fact you need is the guilty verdict?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

No, I would want to know if it was premeditated or a spur of the moment decision, knowing the facts of the case would reflect the punishment.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

and that to is down to the military court. You can not have it both ways. You can not say only soldiers who have experience can judge this then say you are not happy because a military court has passed a judgement you do not agree with

You I assume are a civvie now ?and therefore you do not need to know

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Well moving him out of sight of witnesses seems to show a degree of premeditation?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

So what, the guy was as good as dead anyway.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Obviously the judges need to consider something or he would have been sentenced already.so no it_'s not as simple as "guilty so lock him up"

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

But the Judge did find him guilty. They did consider it, that's the point of a trial, but they came back with the verdict of him being guilty. We never sentence people before their trial....:confused:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

lol but the guilty verdict has been passed

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes, but he hasn't been sentenced.

I don't think anyone is arguing his guilt.

But there are mitigating circumstances to take into account in regards to sentencing.

I think he should get a suspended sentence, and walk free.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

there are some that think he should not have been in court there are some here want him to get special treatment you being one of them.

Not even the Maj General thinks he should walk

Like I said before this thread has weakened my support for the armed services with the attitudes of ex soldiers shown here

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

He could have just left the guy there to die from his injuries, the end result was the same.

He put a bullet in a wounded dog. So what?

What he did was wrong...yes. But in the great scheme of things. Not that terrible.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

no it would not. He would not have broken willingly and openly the Geneva convention. This fact has also gone public we all know this soldier broke something that has been in place for a long time

As I keep saying I am not bothered about a dead muslim I am bothered about the fact some think this guy deserves special treatment imo he does not

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Is everything black & white to some of you? Is everything yes or no, is there not some "middle ground" in your life. No one on here knows the full story, We know only whats been published, we know nothing about this marine, what he`s been through, what his mindset was, yet some of you sit back & condemn him because the court found him Guilty.

I don't think anyone here has said he wasn't guilty, but some of you must accept that as most of you know nothing about service life, the few of us who have been in that situation, know a little more than you do. So, stop sitting back & telling us he is guilty, we know that, what we are asking for is a little understanding. We train men to kill, we send them out primed & ready to shoot, Kill, kill, kill, sometimes guys get complacent & a terrorists life means nothing to him. So he blats him.

Personally, I would change the rules, & ensure any terrorist who fired on us, never fires again. The only good insurgent is a dead one.

Rant over.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

can you read? have you read my posts? if you can read you will know I have not condemned the marine I have made it perfectly clear that I think the rules of engagement are wrong and I have made it clear my issue is with those wanting this guy to get special treatment.

I guess though you look think he does not agree and then made up the rest of what I said otherwise you would have not quoted my post for your rant because as someone who has not condemned him it was mis directed !!! rant over ....

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Not "special treatment" but mitigation to be taken into consideration.

If a beaten wife kills her husband does she get a full life term? No.

Yes, she is guilty of the crime but the mitigation of years of abuse is taken into consideration and more lenient sentence is given.

This all that is asked for this soldier.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

you want a convicted murderer to get a suspended sentence do you realise how ridiculous that is??

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes I can read, I can Soldier too, I can drive any vehicle on & off the road including Armoured Vehicles & specialist AVRE`s. I can even take people for Driving Tests too.

What do you do?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

oh wow I am so impressed !

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

About as ridiculous as the guy who killed a Pedophile, who had raped & murdered his daughter.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------

You`l get used to it.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

lol I seriously doubt he was not convicted of murder

Calm down I am worried you might shoot me or maybe run me over ;)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

No, your OK, you can relax.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

phew lol

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Not ridiculous at all.

This man is not a danger to the public.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

how do you know? we have arguments for his side about his state of mind do we not?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

If only those with experience of a profession where allowed to voice an opinion then this forum would have very few posts. As it is people who aren't in the police service criticise the police, people who aren't teacher criticise teachers, people who aren't nurses criticise nurses and so on.

No one here is applying a blanket criticism of the Armed Forces. This is one case which is so rare that it's actually the first of it's kind in this particular war. So it's hardly as if members of the forces are frequently brought up on murder charges for fighting a war. Presumably the court process found particular reason to convict this specific case. There was been no injustice here. The description of the video sounds like a pretty clear case and the court agreed.

---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

Plenty of murderers are not a danger to the public. We still send them to prison.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

the very fact we do not know who he is shows that it is not a conviction for the sake of an example either

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

He isn't looking at a full life term. He is looking at spending the rest of his life on parole which is standard for all murder convictions. If the beaten wife was convicted of murder, and not manslaughter, she too would be on life term parole.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

And do these arguments indicate he would kill a member of the public indiscriminately?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Again. Many murderers would not kill a member of the public indiscriminately. There is often a motive or a situation that would not apply the rest of the time. These people are still sent to prison and convicted of murder.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Only 30 years, I believe a life tariff is 30 years ( I could be wrong )

I would be happy for him to be given life, with a recommendation he only serve at least 12 months.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

He is looking at 15: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/s...er_cases/#an05

The lowest starting point he can get.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

And sentences vary. I would recommend a suspended sentence, or a very short mandatory stint.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

As far as I can see that cannot happen. It's a mandatory minimum sentence.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Perhaps they may consider that as he rid the world of a terrorist, he should be given a light sentence?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Not quite, although for serious offences sentencing in a court martial does align with civilian courts, in exceptional circumstances the court martial can vary.

It all depends on the pre- sentencing report and how good his defence is, and how compelling any mitigation is.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

They won't because the sentences are mandatory. Judges don't have the the ability to give an entirely different sentence at a whim. They must meet the minimum sentences set by law. Additionally the Armed Forces are not afforded an exemption from this. You also don't get an exemption if the victim was someone we don't especially care for.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

K. I did wonder if the Military Courts used the same guidelines. The reports I have seen have also estimated 15 years (presumably he'll be out in half).

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Can't work that out. Seems like he can get life imprisonment but couldn't find the minimum sentence, maybe there isn't one. Still like I said reports suggest he'll get the minimum sentence a member of the public would get.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

dunno he may be suffering from PTSD and this the reason he decided to kill this guy knowing it was wrong

---------- Post added at 22:20 ---------- Previous post was at 22:19 ----------

if they do then I would have no problem with that

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Seems the avg time served for someone given a life sentence is between 13-16 years.

The shortest being just over 3 years.

I reckon he'll get a minimum tariff of 5. Which is still too long IMO

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Presumably that's after the various discounts have been applied?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Bloody hell, didn't realise you changed your mind depending on which way the wind was blowing.

---------- Post added at 22:29 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------

Yes.

It all depends on what minimum tariff he is given. He'll be pretty much guaranteed to walk once he's served that.

The lowest minimum tariff given ( up to 2011) was just less than 3 years.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Who was given three years for murder? I thought it was a minimum of 15 years and then you can be out in half, and maybe a bit sooner depending on all the discounts etc. If someone got three years they would have been out in a year! :rem:

Either way he should get the same as a civilian would get for the same crime and circumstances.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

read my posts in this thread I have issue with killing terrorists

What I do not want is him getting special treatment because he was a soldier

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

How can a civilian commit the same crime? This is a war zone.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

and therefore a war crime

your logic would get him hung or shot

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

That`s Irrelevant to the question, in any case, some Germans found guilty of war crimes were imprisoned.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

A civilian cannot commit the same crime exactly but they could commit a crime where there are a lot of difficult situations to consider. Someone who has been emotionally comprised, for lack of a better phrase, and doesn't think clearly.

I have no problem with these being considered in migration, as long as it's the same process that happens for everyone else. You consider the circumstances for him as you would for others. Crimes are not black and white and the ability to be compassionate and reasonable is a important part of a civilised justice system.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

as this guy will be

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Nobody, I don't know what the actual sentence was, but they were only given a minimum tariff of 3 years, so they only served three years in prison, and were out on licence for the remainder of their sentence.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yeah but who was given the minimum tariff of three years is my question. As that CPS page said 15 years was the mandatory unless that is a new recommendation or I have misunderstood what the mandatory minimums are there for.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

You need to read the article you posted.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes. Completely agree, something I have been trying to put forward in my posts. There are circumstances which will affect the sentence, conduct prejudice to good order, misuse of authority, bringing the service into disrepute, what mental health issues could he have, (PTSD) there are many other issues, some of which are unique to the forces, but, I would hope his record would throw some light on it. He may be used as an example to others in the Forces. I just hope he will be judged by people who know the pressures of war, & not the pencil pushers. (Staff Officers).

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

OK. To be fair I just jumped to the find the minimum sentence rather than read all of it. Still 3 years is a extraordinary low minimum sentence so that must have had some pretty exceptional migrating circumstances.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

What like the guy who murdered bin laden did, I wonder when the Americans will begin his trial...

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I've mentioned earlier about the Americans dropping missiles on Pakistani housewives. Such a law abiding country.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Maybe if the housewives weren't playing house with the Taliban they wouldn't get blown up.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Well, I have always said, some people need to be killed.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes take note of this, America has never killed a single civilian whilst launching missiles at terrorists. As long as you say the old woman and school kids you killed were Taliban, it's completely fine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4171975.html

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

it's where the age old argument is all about though


when is killing legal - if it's sponsored by the state or not


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rebel_(book)
was on my shelf for years - more by way of posing by the side of it than any other reason - but it bangs on about that sort of stuff

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I didn't say the kids or women were Taliban, but the Taliban are there, maybe in the house, maybe next door. But they are there.

Yeah, right.

The Taliban just happened to be passing.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

as far as I am concerned they should get a load of B52 bombers tooled up with nuclear weapons - fly over there and bomb the entire
imbroglio back into the stone age


much in the same was as you would, say, re-install windows xp

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Ok, So you're happy to have a missile parked down your letterbox should we ever suspect a terrorist next door to you. I don't doubt there's Taliban lingering about but killing others and calling it collateral damage for 1 terrorist is a joke.

I'm not saying You're wrong about the Taliban, it's the way they do it that's wrong.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

That says it all. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I agree. He shouldn't be made an example of. I really hate it when certain sentences seem to be given to "send a message". I hated it when it was done for the London riots, for that idiot that scaled the Cenotaph, and I would hate it here. It's unfair to the individual in question to get a harsher sentence that he or she would otherwise get. He should be treated as anyone else would which means he isn't made an example of and he has the same right for migration to be taken into account (but he isn't exempt from justice for his profession).

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

But he is exempt (sort of) if he is mentally Ill,, you only have to look at the numbers of ex soldiers living on the streets, in jail or with drink/drug dependency to know we have a massive problem and that's not counting the constant battle stress he has been under. Yes migration might be his best bet, to a country that values his service.

---------- Post added at 07:20 ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 ----------

Unfortunately there is an argument, the winners make the rules, they shot prisoners they went to jail or got hung, we shot prisoners like on the crown of thorns hill in caen and the commanding officer of the Somersets said the remorse shown by the men was punishment enough.

---------- Post added at 07:22 ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 ----------

He reaped what he sowed that's for sure, funny though isn't it, that guy got a medal, ours gets a courts martial and a prison sentence.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

10 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25266206

So not as high as it could have been, it's lower than some suggested, but no clemency either.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

If a soldier is sent off to war, it is his duty to kill an enemy or be killed. Under the Geneva Convention, all soldiers act under this rule that they must follow this rule.

BUT, in many countries any 'enemies' are not interested in this rule and shoot to kill. What are soldiers expected to do, go into 'enemy territory' and stand up and wait to be shot.

I get furios when we hear of soldiers being arrested for 'murder' of an insurgent in an act of war. for failing to do his duty, we should be giving the guy a medal for shooting an 'enemy'

IF an enemy walked in the streets of London and killed someone in the street, and someone killed that person to try and save that person from dying - would he be charged with murder as well.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

he will be out in about three years - do the sentence in open prison - and you just emerge good at table tennis - he won't be mistreated ;)