Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

you welly-jelly,Bro? ;)

even if he did,what difference does it make?

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

He dug his own grave let him lie in it Chris for once stop backing parasites like him or sitting on the fence. Reality is he knows its impossible so then why set policy. Incidently it hit 100,000 last night just before midnight quickest poll I seen hit magic number.:D

He published no end lies he dont know the truth anymore. Coalision talks 300 bn welfare which fabricated lies only true welfare around 117bn this year figures. Only measly 9.8bn is unemployment if check pensions out only 35.6bn is disabilty that wont be going in peoples pockets all of it goes to atos too.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/ye...474849#ukgs302

These figures negilable for protection help those who cant help themselves. The country earns 1.5 trillion its sickens me they making out they cant afford the social protection. Reality we cant afford the parasites who bleeding nation to death those getting fat off corporate welfare.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

no because he is rich and wants to make the country a better place he should work for free ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

So the answer is yes, you're jealous of his money.

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I don't know.

He didn't marry into high political office though. That was as a result of hard work and a lot of determination, especially so in IDS's case, seeing as he was unceremoniously dumped as party leader. Many senior politicians have simply given up and taken cushy jobs at charities and pressure groups with less provocation.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

If he married into money then he didn't technically 'work' for it did he.
an MP doesn't count as work really. it's just one of them work positions where everything is paid for by the taxpayer. so whatever money you do 'earn' you can keep saving it all up :)

Found this on his website.

http://iainduncansmith.com/2013/02/h...-mansion-free/

---------- Post added at 15:39 ---------- Previous post was at 15:35 ----------

No the answer isn't yes.

you're just making them word association guesses thing with your mind.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Gary, you are jealous of Iain Duncan Smith's money and possessions. Why else are you talking about them? They have nothing to do with how our benefits system is run.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Ah,finally we get to the core... I suggest you read back what you wrote,the envy is literally dripping from the words you wrote.

He's taking the underclass' second favourite drug,benefits,away from them,that's some serious withdrawal symptoms showing.I reckon in a couple of years they'll be over it.


Really? So his money did the work for him to get him where he is now?
still jelly Bro.
No way,if IDS hadn't done so well for himself then people on benefits wouldn't have to starve.... ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Really, worked hard, it wasn't as a result of who he went to school with then, well done him, he's not the norm in this government it seems.

---------- Post added at 15:56 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------

What makes you think the private sector would want them?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

A Roman Catholic comprehensive in Solihull, apparently.

If you're concerned about the schooling of our senior politicians, blame the idiots that scrapped the Grammar schools. They were a powerful engine of social mobility but because not everyone could go to them, they were burned on the altar of fairness and equality, the same thinly-veiled religion of envy and jealously that says people who have done well for themselves - or who have parents who did - are somehow worthy of hatred and derision, simply for daring to have a bigger bank balance than the rest of us.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Funny that,I went to a private school in Germany with some of my fellow pupils coming from extremely wealthy and/or very influential families.... and I still had to work hard to get to where I am today.
Fact is you have to work hard no matter what your background to be successful...
Background and privilege may give you a head-start but if you're rubbish at what you do than that won't help you.I see this in the Film Industry all the time.

THAT is another point altogether.... ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

He's a stand up guy getting people off benefits is his speciality , he managed in 2001 to secure his unemployed wife a £15,000 salary off of the taxpayer acting as his diary secretary , if that doesn't show his commitment to the cause I don't know what will.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Of course, no self-employed person in the private sector has ever spread his business income around members of his family in order to make best use of allowances and tax rules. :dozey:

Many MPs did many ridiculous things that were uncovered during the expenses scandal but I happen to think employing spouses to run their offices was not one of them. YMMV naturally.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Thinking about it,being more intelligent than others is also an unfair advantage,I hope one day we'll find a way to get everyone an even head-start of say an IQ of 100. ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Being totally honest i couldn't give a fig who has what or where they did or didn't go to school i just want a welfare system that does what it is meant to and is not a politicians football anytime they want to abuse it for their own ends. Are too many on disability yes there are at the time of the last election there were about a million people claiming disability benefits that should not have been but were because for labour it was easier to encourage them to go on disability and not show up on the unemployment figures then to actually do anything real and long lasting to create proper jobs.

All political parties in power have misused the benefit system for their own ends over the decades and while this lot talk about sorting it all out they are not really, they are still leaving the system wide open for political abuse the next time any of them need to use it so whose right or wrong. This time we have the triumphant chant of creating a million jobs just gets a bit sketchy on what sort of jobs full time or part time majority of them being part time not paying a living wage and not lowering the welfare dependence that much as they earn so little they still need benefits to top them up maybe less then they were getting maybe more the system is such a mess it's hard to tell.

As for the so called bedroom tax hitting a lot of people that wanted to and couldn't do a thing to avoid it because wanting to downsize doesn't matter when the housing is not there to downsize too which was the case for a lot of people. It's all just another load of hot air sounds good looks good even on paper but get down to the detail and it's as useless as all before it. Anyone speaks against what this government is doing and they quickly get labelled "socialist", "freeloader", "anti tory" it really is a joke there are serious points about this so called benefit reform that need to be examined and debated by all groups in society and no debate is allowed because one side is right and the other side is wrong.

Such a moronic approach to the whole thing it clearly avoids both entrenched sides that both sides have some right and some wrong and the smart thing to do would be to meet in the middle but no were into a good old slanging match it's all or nothing folks and most of the talking is being done by people that are not even affected by any of it. For the record i am a claimant would dearly love not to be but i have a medical condition that has royally screwed me i have been a Tory voter all my life but the conservatism i was bought up to believe in isn't what this government are doing. I fully agree the system needs reform and needs tightening up, i also think it is only fair at times of economic hardship that claimants don't get more then those who work have no problem with any of that.

Never in my life have i ever been referred to as a socialist only on this forum have i been called that all because i don't think this reform is going to do sod all to sort the problem out. It is political pandering to society backed with distortion of facts and ridiculous rhetoric which we heard more of today from osbourne with his "workers are right" rubbish. People that are unemployed don't stop being workers they are simply workers without work usually through no fault of their own hopefully for a short time and his speech today was so divisive it was unbelievable.

For the very small section that does believe in benefit for life when they are capable of work i fully endorse them being hit and hit as hard as we can to make them work but they are a minority and that needs to be remembered and we don't need a sledgehammer to crack this nut we need people with their eye on the problem and not the next headline or poll.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Hence all the foreign workers i come across doing jobs in warehousing and food processing ,all of which are working legitimately for multi nationals and definitely not for less than the minimum wage,in many cases above .If some of our unemployed weren't so fussy about the work they do then we wouldn't have so many foreign workers taking jobs away from them .

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I must admit that does irritate me, when I'd finished at college I started work in a warehouse cleaning up. didn't give a crap as it was a job. k think it's easier to get another job if you're already doing one. I dint think I should've been fussy.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I had the same discussion with my oldest son last week .He finishes college this year with good results(2 degrees) but is too fussy about the work he will take .I have suggested taking any work to get on the working ladder because as you say it is much easier to get work if you are already working ,i have certainly found that to be the case

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:34 ----------

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...a-gambler.html

OH Dear ,seems mister "i live on £53 a week" is an out and out......well i won't say it on a public forum

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Great. If he has that sort of disposable income, despite having to claim housing benefit, then he won't have any objections to paying towards the cost of his spare rooms.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That discredits him it does not alter the fact IDS spoke crap

And I am not envious of IDS I am quite happy how I am now I have my ESA sorted out with how things have worked out for me I am not actually better off ;) Just as I have said before standing by my convictions and I do not care how someone tries to discredit me here I will continue to

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Personal experience may offer insight, however lack of personal experience does not disqualify someone from coming to a considered point of view. If you were less minded to think people who don't share your experiences have less to contribute then you might be less prone to assuming that's what other people are doing to you.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You sound like you're preaching again, Chris :)

Why should anyone have to be jealous of someone's wealth in this 'argument' I don't know.
who started that one?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You did, by making IDS's wealth and privilege a topic of discussion instead of the benefit changes.

IDS's house, his car and his wife make no difference at all to the government's benefits policy. The policy is either right or wrong on its own terms.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That was in reply to someone saying that he worked hard for his money.
I merely asked if it's true that he married into wealth. which contradicts the working hard for the wealth.

I know. but in order to discount the opposition. the term 'jealousy' is being used.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That's because some posters are making an issue out of other people being rich and privileged, instead of discussing whether the benefits reforms are correct in the context of the economic situation and the stated policy aim of making it more worthwhile for those that can work, to work. Arthur and Mertle are good examples of two posters who have made an issue out of the rich, although IMO Mertle does it rather more intelligently. He makes an argument for a socialist approach to wealth redistribution, which is well made even though I believe his premise is fundamentally flawed.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Err NO ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Please do not consider you know what goes on in my head and speak for that its very rude.

Seriously mate we discuss these issues as I said before I have courage of conviction and stand by and fight for my point of view. It is no different to what you marty or any other members do. Why do you feel the need to single me out and make out like its only me that stubborn? most of us in these threads are just a stubborn so I would appreciate it if you and others were to stop singling me out acting likes its only me ok??

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

see singling Arthur out here saying his post lacks intelligence this is very rude and a lot of members do the same and I get singled out for standing my ground while Arthur is ripped to shreds on a regular basis crazy I am not the only one with a bad attitude here

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Who's singling you out? I happen to be responding directly to you at this point, I've responded to directly to others at other points. And I will continue to do so. I have a conviction to stand by, just as you do.

I consider I know what goes on in your head only to the extent that you share your thoughts in this thread, and others like it. I have seen you arguing that people who don't share your experience can't speak to it as well as you can. I have seen you observing that you think others are trying to discredit or attack you when all I can see is people addressing social situations that you happen to personally identify with.

A national welfare policy is a blunt instrument. We can only discuss the rights and the wrongs of it in blunt fashion. There will always be personal stories of hardship and a sense of injustice in this area. A policy designed to address the needs of millions is always going to have anomalies that disadvantage some. However I do not see anywhere in this thread, any discussion about the technicalities and what might need to be done in order to address injustices and anomalies. The thread so far has been very high level, discussing the overall right or wrong of the benefit reforms. As such, I can see no justification at all for you feeling like your position is being personally attacked. I might just as well be accused of attacking myself, seeing as I am currently and by some distance a net beneficiary of the system rather than a net contributor - a fact you have previously dismissed as less relevant than your own experience as I'm not actually on the 'bread line'. But there we go round in circles again.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Just seen a piece on the news where Osbourne goes to of all places 'where people are working' to discuss what's happening to those who are not working?

they mention that they'll be £300 a year better off.
I assume that £300 is a fortune?

so what is around £900 a year loss then? that some of the non workers are losing??!!

it's a triple fortune!

madness.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Try reading it again without the red misty goggles.

Saying that one person's comments are offered more intelligently is not the same thing as saying the other person's comments lack intelligence. Not the same thing at all. One is a relative statement and the other is an absolute.

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

No, it's not madness, but the fact that you can't see the point he was making is very telling.

The benefit reforms are supposed to make it more worthwhile to work than not to work. They are also meant to address the injustice felt by many low-paid, hard-working people that they have friends and neighbours who are better off on benefits and not working at all.

Taking the government's message about welfare reform and sharing it in front of an audience of workers who will be happy to hear it is simply good politics.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

but its how you try to score points by belittling my point of view Chris you do it all the time. You do not respond just to my point you then go onto to say things about how I am thinking or my motives when seriously you do not have a clue about me

Chris it appears to me that you are only interested in your own opinion and no one elses matters === things like this you recognise eh?
You seem to think you past knowledge on a subject that has changed is as relevant as upto date experience === see I can do it to if you want to play that game

You and marty argue the same point only yours seems a little more intelligent ===== hows about that one then...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

If I say it's madness, then it's madness.
you're just of the opinion that it's not :)

So why didn't he go and do his PR stunt in a jobcentre?
tell them that there's jobs out there. forget that not so long ago there wasn't, because now there's jobs galore for everyone.

I agree. it makes the divide even stronger.

we're going to be sorry.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

no red here mate as I explained yesterday none of this winds me up its just a game mate and I love it. Not been missed though that you try to discredit me making out I am angry again how could you possibly know????

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Because it's a tough message to be told you're getting less money so delivering it in a job centre would not result in good pictures for the news. Osborne has chosen a sympathetic audience, and why shouldn't he? Speeches, walkabouts and hand-shaking are political events.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35555823) I agree. it makes the divide even stronger. we're going to be sorry.

No, we really aren't. The benefit reforms are polling extremely well for the Tories.

---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:09 ----------

I observe that you seem angry. You say you're not. It's just another aspect of the discussion. :shrug:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

propaganda and spin I for one will not fall for it

all you can see is my type your observation is flawed not an aspect of the discussion at all but its your prejudice towards me just standing by my beliefs just like you :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

... which would be a comment on what you believe my motives are, rather than a contribution to the thread.

Which, as it happens, I think is a relevant consideration, which is why I don't think twice about observing other posters' apparent motivations and moods when I post.

I think envy and hatred have played a major part in some people's contributions to this discussion. IDS has been pilloried not for making a supposedly incoherent argument on welfare but for being rich.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I fully concur ,I tend to argue my point a little more bluntly than Chris (that is why you and me come to blows so often ,we have a similar style just opposite sides of the coin) ,Chris has obviously had a more advanced education than me ,i concider myself average in intelligence and Chris more fluent and well written .The difference between Mertles posts and Arthurs is Mertle does research his posts whereas Arthur just rants and contradicts himself sometimes

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well to be totally pedantic I just want to him to prove that he can live on £7.50 a day which was the thread I created. I asked you the same someone who isn't rich but you declined. He made the statement he should back it up do you not think??

the fact its appears to not be like that now Chris is not my fault

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

There's indeed jobs galore. If people would put their energy into looking for work instead of ranting about benefit cuts they'd be working in no time.

Maybe not the dream job they always wanted,but at least a first step.

There was a time when I worked as a cleaner because times were tough and I just needed the money.No shame in that,although it was strange that most of my colleagues at the time were foreign and the English who applied and were offered the job only lasted a day or two..... must've been beneath them and the benefits were obviously sufficient to live on.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

We agree for once lol

but Arthur still deserves the same amount of respect as any other member though surely?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It's incredible,really. Rather than working together and trying to raise chances for everyone and trying to motivate the country back to work all that happens is anyone who's done well gets shot down and demonised for being rich. It's really a sad state of affairs and just goes to show how much Britain has come to rely on benefits and the state.

Time to stop that addiction and I hope the Government will go much further in their welfare reforms.Just a shame the Tories have to appease the LIbDems.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I do not give a toss about who is in power or who makes the decisions I care about the policies they back and my view on all of the coalition is based purely on political policy. When I said he should work for free I was actually joking you know ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Not had many dealings with the system before but today I had to call them and I came to this conclusion.....anyone who can get an issue resolved with them in less than a day deserves a medal along with any benefits they need. It was hard enough to find a number to call. Then had the numerous levels of automated system, 28 minutes of being in a queue before being answered and told I need another department and the line going dead while they transferred me. Frustrating and after all the waiting and calls I still didn't get the issue resolved.

I can see how it can be a full time job on benefits, 9-5 dealing with DWP calls, days spent at the CAB to help fill in forms to re-apply for benefits when they rename it and make you re-apply, going to medical appointments to get paperwork to send in and have the ATOS Dr's causing you to have to do it all again, back to the CAB for help with an appeal, day spent at tribunal, another day spent chasing the DWP because they haven't paid you after the tribunal has said their initial refusal was stupid, fill in more forms because the change in benefits affects 4 other benefits so you have to re-apply so that 75p can be juggled between them, meaning you end up 30p worse off in the end, very tired and wish you was dead.

That is the kind of impression I get from one day of phonecalls and the various horror stories I have heard from people I know. Full time work seems a lot less stressful!

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You have to remember that IDS is making a point that whilst some workers may not be all that better off in real terms immediately ,less of their tax money is going towards state support which means that eventually more will go towards stuff it is meant to go towards ,like infrastructure and investment in industry .What better place to do that than at a work place ?.
Nobody should mind paying tax if it used correctly and efficiently for the betterment of the society ,when it is used in the amount it is for state support then people paying that tax quite rightly start to kick back because the society they are paying for is going backwards

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

if it only targeted the right people I would support it but it does not which spoils it imo

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35555827) No, we really aren't

Oh, we will.

Quote:

The benefit reforms are polling extremely well for the Tories.

As in the 'them' team is bigger than the 'us' team?

who's going to be the referee when the time comes?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Quite agree .We are in a position where (according to those in this thread on benefits ) they would much sooner be working and yet instead of growing a pair and fighting for the jobs that are there they are letting thousands of foreign workers take them without a fight whilst they bemoan their loss of benefits .Where has the fight gone ? I think some are giving up far too easily

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

LOL Marty. if only that dream were to become a reality.
besides. they haven't finished yet. they've got to find more money. and there's only a certain part of society left in which to do that with.

at the moment you're just there to approve of the present measures.
but your time will come. it has to. it's the whole point of the phrase "we're all in this together"

you didn't think he didn't mean you. did you? :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It's virtually impossible to target a section of society without actually increasing cost and wasting more money .Back in the day all benefits used to be means tested and the cost of administering that was probably more than was paid out .

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

and which dream would that be Gary ?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Have they come for you yet? You sound like someone who suffers from Paranoid Delusions.

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

No,you weren't,but we both know that,don't we? ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Your one.
the one about some money going to better places and everyone living happily ever after :)

In my dream I had. they were putting it all to one side and then Dave, Ian, and George did a runner with it to another country.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

you only think you do ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think that for some people it's easier to turn this issue into a them and us, rich v. poor, right v. left argument than accepting the reality that the welfare state cannot carry on supporting people who could and should be working harder to support themselves.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Do I?
I feel ok.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

A sentiment that doesn't compute with large swathes of the working- and underclass,or so it seems. They'd rather whinge and moan all day than put their energy to work and better their lives.

Shame really,they're wasting precious time. :)

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:54 ----------

well,that's how they want you to feel. ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

One thing the Tories have always been good at imo is building society and improving it .A little bit of history goes a long way Gary

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Ok. ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I reckon if we were to do a nationwide survey. most of Britain is probably quite depressed at the moment. and should be on DLA or something if they never took it away.

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

I know. they sold and privatised everything, and took my milk off me.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

From what I see on this forum the people that have something to say here are not the 'unemployed workshy' but mainly the sick and disabled.

And the sick and disabled can not work harder to support ourselves, and I don't see anyone here actually defending the the workshy either.

I must be reading a different forum to you, I don't see the 'rich vs the poor' thing and the 'them as us thing' it's the usual against the usual but just a different subject.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I'm not unemployed, sick or disabled.

Technically. I should be on the tax payers side :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

actually Gary it was Harold Wilson who started the milk snatching in 1968 ,maggie just completed his policy (remember that history thing i mentioned;))

also ,a bit more relevant ,it was labour who insisted disabled people in receipt of benefits get re assessed in order to cut welfare spending ,the coalition are just completing their policy .

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I very much doubt most of Britain is depressed,and even if it was how do you know it's related to being unemployed?

You do realise that it was Labour who took the school milk away from 11 to 18 year olds in 1968,don't you?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

And what makes you think my sentiments relate only to this forum? You're not reading a different forum but you are 'reading' words I haven't written.

The extent to which the sick or disabled can work or work harder will vary according to how severe their illness or disability is. Some are able to do a lot more than others and many want to as the Remploy workers will testify.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

As Carers of our own handicapped twins (now young adults), My wife and I are very, very grateful for the Benefits we receive to allow us to continue our roles.

We aren't rolling in money, but make do and pay our bills. A short period of respite would be a nice gesture, but it has never happened in over 21 years, so we're not holding our breath.

I have often received verbal bashings from both working and unemployed people, thinking that being a full time Carer is somehow a "skive" or a "cushy life". Sadly, or poignantly, several have had to become Carers for members of their own family, and now see us in a totally different light.

I suppose it would be the same with workers who slag off unemployed people, then become one themselves.

Despite the REAL inflation rates, I reckon many in our position would have accepted a 0% rise in benefits if it meant getting this country out of the mess it's in financially.

But looking at IDS's future plans for the "less" disabled, I fear we may be in for a rough ride ahead when the axe falls soon with PIP coming in to replace DLA. The ATOS assessments were hell enough, but I think IDS has further nasty surprises for us at the bottom of the pile.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

very good point as it goes

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Come on will the old boy net work is as alive and kicking today as it ever has been, I love the way these ministers get sacked for incompetence or impropriety one day and all but the next are the best person to save a different failing department.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The way i see it is certain posters keep interjecting disability into the argument and using it as a reason not to cut welfare .Some posters need to realise that welfare arguments do not always mean that the disabled are being picked on ,in fact the whole point of welfare reform is to make it fairer on workers and make sure the money is there to support those that really need it.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

as said no one here is saying any different about the welfare state do you think we are? I for one keep on saying the weakest and poorest are getting effected as well I also said yesterday or whenever that the workshy will play the game go to meeting sign on do their stuff then stuff up any interviews anyway so it wont effect them as hard as the innocents

---------- Post added at 20:19 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ----------

the disabled are being effected as well the whole atos issue is about that side of it

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think it was Stuart, he was jealous that some one on the dole could afford £200 trainers

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well there are always ignorant people who make judgements based on very little but I reckon most people here, myself included, reckon you're doing as much as anyone could reasonably expect. Credit to you for that!

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Why not?
I'd say a lot of people don't see much of a future at the moment.
and then you got people who are just depressed with Dave's face and voice.

You have just discounted many workers from being able to be a bit depressed. or did you mean the prospect of being made unemployed in their case?

I'll ask Marty to check again.

---------- Post added at 20:23 ---------- Previous post was at 20:21 ----------

They probably bought them on the 'Buy Now, Pay Next Year When You Get a Job' in the catalogue.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier reply to Peanut. ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes they are ,everyone on benefits is being affected ,as i pointed out yesterday we can continue to have a reduced system available for all now or a much reduced system for the few in future years .If we don't have the cuts now who would receive benefits in future when we can't have a system for all .Do you want to make that decision ? would you choose the severely disabled over the not so disabled ,would you tell fit unemployed to fend for themselves and if they don't they starve ,lose their homes .Or would you prefer to give everyone who needs it enough to survive on .I know what i prefer.
Yes people are going to struggle but they will survive the alternative is frightening and also very short sighted and a great disservice to future generations

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

They went for the disabled first.
the workers and the non workers looked on.
then they went for the non workers. the workers looked on.

and it all stops there?
nothing for the disabled and the non workers to look on upon?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

what do you think the future hold anyway? whats going to happen when the oil runs out? the gas? what happens when only a few get the power because there is not enough to go around. What happens when all the bees die or the amount of unfarmable land out numbers the farm land? what happens when there is not enough food to feed everyone? The future is pretty bleak no matter what we do today

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

how about you answer my questions instead of going with the extremely defeatist attitude you have just displayed

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

What happens when all the bees die?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes,like I said the old boy network exists,but even that network only goes so far.In any case we were talking about start in Life though,weren't we?

Yup,that's exactly what they're doing to get kind of a guilt trip going,or maybe to paint themselves as victims and poor creatures who shouldn't have to sacrifice?

Rubbish... he's just wondering how it's possible for someone to work full-time and not be able to afford such trainers and for someone on benefits to be able to do just that. Is that sensible?

Work should always pay,that's the bottom line.If someone on benefits can afford more,or as in some cases families on benefits have more disposable income than working families then there's something seriously wrong with the system. Agreed?

Maybe you should go and see your GP about your 'Dave depression'. If Dave's face and voice are enough to cause depression I'd say you got problems.Get help,Gary! ;)
Neither,I just rebuked your nonsense assertion that most of Britain is depressed.... in any case most of the population on this Island isn't working anyway so your statement is a load balls from the get go.



you do that. ;)

---------- Post added at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

What if the sky falls in tomorrow?What if a massive meteor hits us tomorrow afternoon? What if the Borg really exist and invade later tonight? What if all the nonsense predictions the eco-fascists and luddites made don't come true and man learns and adapts and thrives for a long time to come?

Questions that no one has answer to and don't matter in the slightest right now... how about that. :p:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I invoke Godwin's Law.....:dozey:

You cheapen the memory of Martin Niemöller, and the time he (and millions of others) spent in Saschenhausen and Dachau, by comparing reducing some benefits with the Holocaust.

Shame on you.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes,a shame indeed.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The disabled should always be looked after in my opinion, however people who have kids to get money and people who have never worked a day in their life should be hit hard. My wife has a friend who has a number of kids by different people and gets a 4 bedroomed house paid for - how can that be right?

Also with regard to jobs - there is a tomato farm near where I live and a number of polish people work there from 6am till noon and then wait on tables from 6pm until midnight, yet people moan they can't get a job?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

@Gary

That'll be that history thing again proving a real pain isn't it ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Never heard of him.

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

Marty, I checked up the confusion thing about the milk. Maggie did one better than that other bloke who took it off the big kids. she took it off the little kids :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Exactly the kind of thing that shouldn't exist.If you can't afford kids you shouldn't have them,or if you do make sure you expand your income to be able to pay for your family.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

so what you really mean is it's ok for labour to do it but god help the tories if they try it ,totally missing the point and fact that many policies started by any party in power are usually finished by the party that follows .


You didn't drink the milk anyway you just shoved the straws up your nose and pretended to be a walrus ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

No. because you're on the defensive. you're pretending that it's not about the obvious big kids that can go without. and the little kids who loved it. and the bad dragon taking it away from them.

I stuck them up other kids noses. I didn't like the smell. it smelt like sick :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yeah,but...
... you weren't one of them? ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Everybody knows you used to drink the milk whilst holding your nose :)

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gotta disappoint you dear Gary,I wasn't educated in this country. No free milk or school meals in Germany.You could buy all sorts of snacks though.Banana and Chocolate milk were my favourites. I used to stick the straw where the sun don't shine and blow bubbles that way.The other kids laughed but not the teacher...

:(

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Sounds depressing :(

Anyway. welcome to Britain!

how long you stopping? :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

No,was a great laugh. :)
Oh, a Brit being welcomed home by another Brit. Thank you Gary!
Let's see,as long as my British passport which I acquired by being born in this country to British parents allows me to... another couple of years maybe?Maybe a bit more.
My sights are firmly on the US though,so who knows.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

They're doing a deal on one way flights at the moment :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Send 'em back? I'm home already,dear Gary. Rubbish comment,by the way,but then I expect no less from you,so.... ;)

and in any case,you'd miss me...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

To America. where you said you'd love to go.

you're not trying to get me into trouble are you? asking me to post that so you can use the "send em back" thing? :)

Anyway. loads of stuff in the news about all this benefit cuts thing. I'll post some in a bit.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

No need to get you in trouble,you're doing that fine just by yourself.Take care.

Are you referring to the guy who generated benefits income through his numerous kids and burned them alive? Can't wait for your thoughts on that.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I'm eating. hang on :waving:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Ok:). Enjoy!

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

the answer to both is I do not know not being in government I do not know anything about how making that choice would be made. I would like to think I would try to find other ways because nothing is ever black or white is it?

realistic not defeatist the human race has destroyed the planet for future generations in less than 150 years of technological advancement. Its called the inconvenient truth I believe

---------- Post added at 22:42 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

then the major player in cross pollination has gone

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

with an answer like you should be in politics ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

really? do you fancy some coffee with your weetabix

---------- Post added at 22:44 ---------- Previous post was at 22:43 ----------

lol :)

---------- Post added at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:44 ----------

cuz the poles have them

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Sorry,don't eat Weetabix.