Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

It's because all the grenades you keep throwing in the jobcentres are not taking prisoners.

you pick a few out afterwards and say "not you, sorry"

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Looks like we'll be going down this route now :)

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/s...ulsory_labour/

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I think that was kicked into touch last year when the courts ruled that compulsory work schemes did not break any human rights rules

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

You know where I tell you that thing at a later date "I told you so"?

well :)

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

you'll be wrong Article 4 was dismissed last year ;)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/a...wful-poundland

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I know.
it was mostly a personal opinion.

Second time around.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

That judges reasoning was based on comparing a British person being put in the position of slavery by the British Government. and probably being distracted by the comparism of 'The British' and immigrants and such.

remember. before now it was always being made a point by Grayling and such that this workfare was a 'voluntary' thing. it's since been proved that it isn't, wasn't. and never was.

that is really weird now remembering how people made a point of saying that it was voluntary and not compulsory.
they went as far as to say that it was voluntary from the start. but once the 'volunteer' had commited, then it became compulsory.

we now know that the 'volunteer' never 'volunteered' in the first place.
it was compulsory from the start. enforced with threats of losing money.
which has now been ruled must be returned.

volunteering was the key thing in this scam.

we have a case.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I wish to apologise for something that l have just read again - ('a large majority of the unemployed, have become so by fault of there own.'-)

This should have read ' alrge majoirty of the unemployed have become so no fault of there own'

As l have said l was unemployed due to redundancy, and you get no help whatsoever, the only help l got was by being told to go 'cold calling' at building sites, when you found out who was going to open there. My apologise again.(when l am wrong, l say l am wrong)

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

alrge majoirty? :confused:

(We knew what you meant Arthur) :) :angel:

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Cheers for clearing that up Arthur :erm:

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

A4e employee tweets remarks about unemployed clients.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/02/35.jpg

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Link to the quote above..

http://watchinga4e.blogspot.co.uk/20...se-tweets.html

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Thanks, Hugh.
distracted with other things and forgot to put it in.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Well the tories do think of us as the great unwashed can't blame us if we live upto it :). Is it still one of dave's pals reaping the rewards of total carp such as this. Also this is not new when i was unemployed we had to attend various courses they called them and not one single practical thing did i or anyone else there learn it just seemed to be a way for the company responsible to pass the time say they had us and no doubt fire in the bill.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I know of one interviewee who, on being asked to 'take a chair', picked it up and asked where he should take it......
I once interviewed a woman (sent by the jobcenter) who turned up rather inappropriately dressed and with 'big boy' tattooed on one forearm :dozey:
There are some people out there who are in need of guidance in negotiating aspects of life that most of us can handle without instruction.....

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Though in defence to the guy who actually took the chair, he was doing what was asked, fairly inteligent of him :)

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

See. classic case of being that used to being told what to do or his money will be stopped.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I bet she scared you as well.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

See - classic case of distorting a statement to support one's pet theory....

I read it as the person being asked to "take the chair" had never been involved in a meeting (or running a meeting), so didn't understand (and why should he) the colloquialism, so took the statement at face value (he took the chair, and asked where to place it).

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I think he was being asked to sit down, Hugh.

why did you think all that happened?

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Based on how he reacted it should have been

He would have to be told to sit in the chair and then you point at the chair you require him to sit in.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Yeh probably.

What does colloquialism mean?

---------- Post added at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

There's a funny Hitler type video on youtube
can't link to it as it has swearing in.

search for
Ian Duncan Smith finds out Workfare has been ruled illegal

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Haha, that's excellent. :D

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

My apologies - I misread "take a chair" for "take the chair" ("take the chair is a colloquialism for running a meeting (being the chairperson)).

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

That she did.......but I loosened up a bit later :D

---------- Post added at 21:19 ---------- Previous post was at 21:18 ----------

Actually, it was my mistake. He was told to 'take a seat'
........sorry :)

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Just leave it as "take a chair"
it doesn't work now with "take a seat" and Hugh will just more confused than he is already :)

That woman you loosened up with later on. didn't she have chance to pop home and get changed out of her work clothes before the interview?

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I have seen your chairs he can have it :)

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Uh oh. I've been taking chairs home with me for years now. I did think it was weird....

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Hang your head in shame along with Cameron... :D

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Blimey ,when i was young the dole office didn't have pens ,now they give 'em cars ?

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

How did you sign your name?

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

with blood

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ur-cait-reilly

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21490542

****...

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I agree, but someone has to do it. I think that people on the dole should be asked to clean up litter or remove graffiti, something like that (part time). Give back to society while they are looking for a better job......
That would get people like Anjem Choudary to stop sponging from us for a start.....

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Iain duncan smith is an idiot of the highest order this is not exactly new information in fact most of the current government love lecturing people on things they themselves would never do but feel it perfectly acceptable to tell others to do it. More i see of this lot more i lean to the argument they haven't got a clue about normal life. Look i am all for work experience in areas where someone can get a job and i haven't found a single unemployed person who doesn't support that. But stacking shelves for a couple of months with no job at the end of it is not work experience it's free labour for private companys and that i do have a problem with.

More so when the same company keeps taking people for it, if it needs doing that bad employ one of them and solve the problem the right way. Also this debate is full of people in decentish jobs telling all unemployed to take these "opputunities" even though if they were honest and the worst did happen they would not take them either.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I agree. Work experience is one thing, cheap labour another. This is blatant cheap labour

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I don't have a problem with people working for their benefits in principle but I am against the way it is currently being done.

The taxpayer foots the bill for these benefits, so the taxpayer should see something for their money. All across the country city centres are a mess. Broken roads, litter, grafitti etc. Why not have Local Authorities (councils) have the welfare recipients "work" for a set number of hours in relation the amount of handouts they get including housing and council tax benefit. If you receive a total benefit award of say £170 per week all in, then £170/<min wage> = your "community employment hours". Like a real job, failure to attend sees a deduction in your benefits.

Let's get them doing something useful and also learning skills, mending roads and so on instead of sitting at home watching Jeremy Kyle and moaning.

There are probably flaws in my idea, but there are flaws in the current system too :)

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

There are several flaws in your hypothesis. There are a number of shirkers who have no intention of doing a day of hard graft. There are those whom would prefer to work, but are unable to do so.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I'd rather they did darren's idea than allow corporate business's get free labour gratis of the taxpayer.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

I will make several points on this concerning 'shirkers' and unpaid labour.

What this idiot from the Tories is trying to do is prove a point about the unemployed. Some will refuse to work as they are paid more on benefits and some that cannot get work.

When l was out of work for TWO years, yes l was on beneift, yes l was ordered to do schemes by the JC, BUT these schemes are a total waste of time, all they do is teach you how to approach an employer, how to write a CV, if you see a building site go and enquire who will be there ie supermarkets etc.

The scheme that you work for a company for FREE for up to a month or more to get your benefit. This to me is slave labour and should be totally banned. Companies get paid by the government to run these, companies are not stupid, if they know they will get a quid out of it they will.

My son who is diabled got a job with a well known store and was treated like a leper - yes not every company is the same.

IF that company gives you a contract at the end of the scheme - which is remote, then the schemes are not worth it.

My biggest theory is that new jobs of today are normaally through agencies, and the pay is rubbish and thats why people think that why should l work for nothing.

I worked very hard to get of the employment register and they still said l didn't work hard enough to get work - l loost two jobs due to the JC insisting that l signed on first.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

We need to stop looking at it the way they want us to.
it's not 'work experience and highly enjoyable' to those who are against it.

it's a scam to make companies who take advantage of the free slaves, extra profit by not having to pay somebody to do the work.
they're doing the exact same work non stop every day, all week, and every week till they get replaced by the next slave. that a person who they employ and pay a few hundred quid a week too.

so you're talking around £1,000 a month they've saved on every single slave they take from the government scam.
if they employed them at the end of the 'experience' then that particular company would be out the scam by now because there's just no room to take on anymore staff on the floor.

another thing that is interesting about all this, is whether the companies insurance policy is covering those that are not official employees on the premises.

we are all part of the scam by being ignorant to what's going on and going along with the it's punishment for them.
companies are saving millions of pounds of unpaid labour. and giving us horsemeat instead of beef!

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

'Slave' - get real.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Yes. slave.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

If something is done under threat doesn't slave work quite well end of the day even now we are told there are skill shortages and still no government will setup applicable training so we can fill those skills from within our own population why not. Nah far better to get more people in from abroad and make the unemployed in this country stack shelves and mop floors for poundland makes total sense doesn't it. Vast majority of people are not looking for a free ride they just want something good and something worth striving for it's not a lot to ask. Hell if we binned these private companys involved in the welfare system not only would we save a fortune but the money coould be put towards setting up proper training in those areas where we are short.

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

Hardly ,the threat of losing money for not doing something is not even close to slavery and that sort of ridiculous comparison does nothing for the argument against government work schemes ,which as you say could be better .Many companies are offering apprenticeships ,the ones i have been involved with are in construction .The biggest problem i have found is that the trainees want big bucks from the get go and do not accept that they have to learn first

Re: Unpaid workschemes are illegal
 

That's most likely because you're thinking of the extreme slaves. like chained up and beaten.
which does nothing for the argument of slaves who are not chained up and beaten.



Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work.

Check.
The governments property. and distributed amongst employers and forced to work.

Slaves can be held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave.

Check.
If you walk off the site you get punished.
if you want to eat this week, then carry on working.

Opponents hope slavery can be eradicated within 30 years.

Check.
at least outside the UK anyway.

---------- Post added at 21:07 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

Put it another way.

if thousands of these 'slaves' had their say for once. instead of various government faces saying (which they try to pretend is the feeling amongst all the slaves) they enjoy it! it gives them confidence! (slight glimpse of a worker being struck in the background) it makes them feel that they're bettering themselves!

if they were given a chance to speak out for themselves. and they said we're treated like slaves. we're doing hard work that the person we're working along side is getting £300 a week whilst we're doing his job for £71.

many people would say "you're not supposed to like it you lazy bums. it's meant to punish you for being the lazy bums that you all are!"

Slaves being punished.