Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

you sound like vm management with your be thank-full you have a job attitude, my reply is be great-full i chose to work here and get your hand in your pocket i'm worth more :)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Fair enough but I would be cheesed off if this story was true

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/b...s/3769.article

Spending your money like this is no different to what the MPs were doing in my book

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

your broken link is about as good as your union busting rhetoric ;)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I am thankfull, a friend of mine lost his job 4 years ago and is still unemployed, he has lost his house and his self respect - I would do whatever I had to to keep a roof over my head

---------- Post added at 17:44 ---------- Previous post was at 17:43 ----------

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/b...s/3769.article

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

even join a union :shocked: ?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Why can they stop firms going bust?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

In some cases, they can do quite the opposite http://abcnews.go.com/Business/twink...ry?id=17725053

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

The strikes began on Nov. 9, when the company imposed a contract that would cut workers' wages by 8 percent.

i would say thats the reason behind the demise of the twinkie any way someone like kraft will take over, the twinkie will live on ;)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

It is amazing how some people will continue to stick their heads in the sand even after speaking to union members who fully explain how a modern union works but many like yourself come to realise the valuable contribution a union makes to the workplace.

Most people do not even know the difference between a shop steward and a union appointed health and safety representative as only one of these two union positions has legal rights and the law on their side.

Answer.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

And in the same case, it's not that simple, apparently....;)

Politix

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Trumka painted Twinkie's employees as the victims of the company - especially since the company's closure will mean 18,550 job losses. Hostess has called itself the victim of overly-demanding workers, who made the company unprofitable. The company previously filed for bankruptcy in 2009 and again in January 2012.

The Sacramento Bee quotes the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union on alleged pay raises for Hostess execs during earlier bankruptcy filings, including a supposedly tripled salary for former CEO Brian Driscoll: "As the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256."
............

its so hard to imagine management not being 100% truthful ,and feathering their own nests at the expense of the workforce .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Same goes for union leaders though - http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/b...s/3769.article

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Are we getting desperate now to discredit the unions with a reference to what he gets paid, do you think he should be on £15,000 instead get real and stop snatching at straws.:rolleyes:

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Swings and roundabouts with bosses and unions.

All I know is historically unions played an important part in getting employee legislation onto the books that protects employees from the worst excesses that employers have used in the past.

But with great power comes great responsibility not to misuse that power.

I recommend that all workers join a union but only after researching who will play fair with their membership and the employers of those members.Don't just choose the cheapest membership subscription.Also if you don't like what your union does..leave them and choose another.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Well said.:tu:

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Goes a bit further than that - might be worth reading the whole article

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Even risk your life or the lives of others?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Of course not - why do you ask such a silly question

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

...because that's the sort of things workers are still being asked to do.

Thankfully not everybody has your attitude so management don't get away with, for example, forcing drivers to take buses out that aren't fit for the road.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

And that is completely irrelevent to whether VM should recognise the CWU for one part of it's business or not

Yes, there are bad businesses, but there also bad unions. To assume that every company is only doing right by their employees only because of a union is just wrong.

I have never felt the need to join the CWU at VM because they have always treated me fairly, and out of all the places I've worked over the years, it's at the top.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Probably the most sensible post in this thread imo ,

i might add also that the reason ,or one of the reasons why VM no longer want to recognise the CWU is because of the financial fiddling that the reps appear to be doing ,just my opinion you understand

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

do you work for vm or the cwu ?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I think the thread has expanded from the VM / CWU dispute, has it not? It wasn't directed at VM although that VM superstar minibus that I sometimes see in Bellshill looks a bit dodgey ;)

Who's assuming that?

Excellent. I know many people who feel the same as you. I also know many people who benefit from being part of an organised Trade union. Nobody in this day and age is forced to join so presumably they're getting something out of it.

Isn't democracy wonderful? :D

I've also come across a fair few people, like you, who've wished they'd joined a union earlier when a managerial change, takeover or whim bursts their perceived comfort bubble.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

You are trying to compare a man leading a union with *******s closing a major US company get real and come back to reality as you know very little about unions and the people involved and will post anything you feel discredits unions are you sure you are not a friend of a certain Richard.

---------- Post added at 06:48 ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 ----------

Exactly what happened at the Albert Dock as people feel they can trust the company they work for, forgetting that the company in reality sees them only as a number who can be disposed of on a whim.

People can be happy in their work but it is stupid of them to assume that everything is hunky dory and that the attitude of "I'm alright Jack" is the correct attitude in this day and age.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I am starting to get a better picture of who is who here by there posts :LOL:

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

im off to picket the tea machine

i shall not be mooooooved ;)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

So when people try to give an alternative view you are told to get real - nice

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

:tu:

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

No it is because rather than look at the facts with unbiased eyes you choose to try and discredit the head of the CWU by comparing him to bosses of an American company feathering their nests as did the old bosses at Rover did with 42 million just before they closed the company.

Now because a union has the audacity to stand up to bosses you think they are wrong, sounds like you would rather tug your forelock to them instead.:rolleyes:

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I didn't write the article, I have not compared him to anyone - the article talks about dodgy dealings - get your facts right before making our its me who is trying to discredit anyone!

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

i have to wonder how much has this campaign cost- organising and paying for a private company to organise a vote etc -lost hours sitting in "road shows" -mail drops - listening to recorded phone messages -people standing around discussing etc -staff doing as little as possible because they feel betrayed by vm .

this all can't come cheap .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I hope that when your time comes and the company you work for drops you in it that maybe at that point you will realise what a union is for as up to now all your posts smack of desperation and intent to discredit unions.

Hopefully your local union will not allow you to join if the company decides that it no longer requires your services and you have to rely on other means of support, if you have never been in that position then you have little or no idea so rather than union bashing try reading up on how unions and businesses actually work.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

You mean putting across a different view, it's a free country we are all entitled to that.

As I said in a previous post, I was in a union but grew up in Notts and saw thousands lose their jobs including members of my family, due to the union not backing down, so quit your preaching, scars like that take a lifetime to heal.

Btw if for some reason I wanted to join a union it's my democratic right to do so

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

its your right to apply for membership ,its also ours to refuse that membership and btw we don't have a coal miners division as far as i know.

any way i'm of to picket the tea machine again

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Don't forget guys, your end of year reviews start just after this vote comes to a end ;)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

And posts like that ensure me and millions of others would never join. Remind me, how many members do the CWU have- oh yes 204K - not exactly a lot is it - your in a minority mate

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Oh look is that the bottom of the barrel i see :)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

you seem slightly perturbed it was not my intention to upset you

any way my sources tell me the votes are in and and the no vote has been carried unanimously -just waiting for the looser's to announce it officially:cool:

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Not surprised, on the bectu site it says last time ntl asked for views the vote was 9 to 1 in favour of the union

I suppose virgin thought attitudes might have changed

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I am willing to bet that VM will ignore the vote and go ahead with there union busting move anyway.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

its the same old management with the same old attitude its just wrapped up in fluff these days .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Depends how you look at it, the senior management are all new according to their financial reports. There is no one left from ntl, telewest, they were all brought on since VM came about, hence now they make money as they know what they are doing

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Have to admit my manager is a top bloke and i cannot fault him.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

my manager is a top bloke his manager is an ex ntl dinosaur .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

The financials only talk about the directors being new doesn't mention managers, so have no idea about that level

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Might be waiting a while http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...on-virgin-vote

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I would wipe that grin off your face as it is not over yet.

somehow I think this will be going to court or a tribunal very soon.;)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

What grin, I was simply linking to the result.

However, if the rest of the members of CWU have the same 'them and us' attitude as comes across in your post, I am glad I am not part of them.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Remember Ben you are not the only person who will read your post or mine so I just used yours for that link you posted.;)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Not sure why you need to use my post when the link is freely available on the Guardian's website, but hey ho

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Clearly the CWU can't accept that people have a right to vote on how they feel

Thankfully the guardian have posted a balanced view of the world rather than the bitter rantings of a union that charges people to have a voice

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

So you still believe the way the vote was set out and done was legal, no surprise there then.

If a vote such as this is to be taken out then you use someone on the lines of the Electoral Reform Society as they can be trusted to run the vote legally and not in an underhand way this vote was run by the company which done in this way can and will always be manipulated to go the companies way.

A vote with such serious implications should never be run in this way as the is no way a company or even a union run vote can ever be trusted to be correct it should always be independently scrutinised to ensure no bias.

Do read the letter I posted above.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

You can't quote someone else's post, say something sarcy and then claim you were just using it to show the link again and meant the sarcasm for those invisible bogey men who might be reading this.

But then again half the stuff you say makes no sense and the other half contradicts everything else anyway so I guess this isn't exactly unusual.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

A bit like yourself I see.:rolleyes:

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

The blind spot you appear to have Peter is the FACT that the original agreement was a voluntary agreement. They did not have to ask their people but did so as its how the company chooses to do things.

So the union response is irrelevant

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

A vote not done legally is not binding in anyway as you will find out soon but you could have googled that for yourself but as it seems that it is a victory against the union you would not think to do that, laws are in place for a reason as the company will soon be finding out.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I will try and make it a bit more clear for you.

The agreements in place were VOLUNTARY so they could have just written to the union telling them they were ending the VOLUNTARY agreement without asking for the views of their people.

However they chose to ask their people and THEY chose to agree to end it

I really do not understand what your problem is with this

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

You again fail to understand any vote done in an underhand way such as this with no independent scrutineers is to all intents and purposes illegal.

All you see is union bashing which makes you happy rather than illegal activity try and get realistic rather than being foolish.:rolleyes:

The laws put in place to cover this were also intended to prevent wildcat strikes, do not for one second think this is over.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Ok, so what would you be saying if they simply wrote to the union and said, we are ending our voluntary bargaining agreement?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

So you have been proven completely wrong about them winning the vote (even after everyone said there was no chance of that happening) and now you are pinning your hopes to some magical legal situation to come and save the day? :D

This is all very entertaining in an egg-on-your-face sort of way.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Oh my we do not understand that this was illegal vote with only the word of the company with regards the result, do try to keep up or you will look a fool.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Read my post above, they didn't need to have a vote so they could say sorry the vote was illegal (according to you) and the say by the way we are ending the agreement.

Get it now?

Btw I am not union bashing I am simply giving the facts

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

So what? there didn't have to be a vote.

The vote is just a bit of showboating to make it look like the VM staff made the decision to end the agreement.

I don't know if they did or didn't, it's totally irrelevant to the outcome, which was always going to be that VM were going to end the voluntary agreement.

The union can do whatever they want, but it is over.

It was always going to be over.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Why bother having a vote then, why bother trying so hard to win it, why bother rigging it, got a horrible feeling a majority of vm staff will endure negative ramifications from this down the line :(

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

In case the union decide to seek statutory recognition ? ,a vote against the union would effectively stop that

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Considering there was moves a foot for just that :)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

EVIDENCE

thats the big thing at virgin "bring evidence to your 1-2-1s etc "

well where exactly is the evidence of this alleged fair vote ? i haven't seen any i've just been told it went virgin managements way ,and we now have to take virgin managements word that this was a fair and unbiased vote ,well based on past evidence of managements integrity and honesty i and many others smell a rat
and if 48% of voters is a true representation of the cwu membership then expect a fight, no one is planing on lying down and taking this quietly .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

The conversations around the office coffee machine were interesting and at times colorful on Friday ;)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

there's a lot going on behind the scenes ,its not as if we didn't expect treachery and lets face it mo and his minions didn't disappoint on that front .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

What a model employee you are, they pay your wages and yo talk about not taking this lying down etc. 52 percent voted yes in a vote they didn't even need to haven so you don't give a crap about their views eh.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

do you have any evidence of that
and by evidence i mean something fairly run and properly documented ? not your third hand he /she said so so its true type of evidence .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I am sure they have but why does it matter. They could have just ended the agreement without a vote, so why are you so upset?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

why are you sure they have -have you seen it because if you have your doing better than those involved on both sides of the "vote" .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Of course not but they appear to be a decent business who look after their people, so why lie.

As I keep saying they didn't have to let you vote and could have just ended the agreement - why do you not see that

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I think you will find that the main complaint now is the complete lack of transparency and the use of what should have been a totally independent company to count the votes, which many now feel was not so independent ?.

Great point is being made that they did not have to have the vote, however as they decided to have that vote then they must be seen to be squeaky clean and to have followed the process legitimately. Now i am not here to say if that process was or was not followed, however if there is not full disclosure of the vote then it will fuel the conspiracy theorists no end.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Do you work for VM? I'm sort of wondering why you have such a particular interest unless it closely concerns you?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

My interest is from a shareholder perspective. When their main man Neil Berkett holds analyst sessions as he did this past week, he always talks about the great people at VM and how they are the driving force for their great performance and therefore their share price.

His view seems at odds with some of the posts on here and I am intigued to as why that should be.

It appears from outside looking in that they simply wanted to move one area onto the same approach as the rest of his business - so I am struggling as to why there is so much suspicion?

I also think the union have an agenda and are trying to damage their brand and drive up membership with scaremongering hence my comments to try an balance the argument

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

You do realise though that some CF members were made redundant by VM and therefore may have a different perspective to yours.
Also if you haven't actually been on the inside as an employee then your experiences are perhaps not going to be the same as those employed by directly by VM.

Shareholders may not perhaps be the best judge of a companies working conditions unless they are VM employees.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

So what we have here is that members of staff are worried about there employment, working conditions and wages, your interested in your dividend as a share holder ?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top banana (Post 35501729) My interest is from a shareholder perspective.

you never said you where from the world of high finance

can i interest you in some snake oil ;)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

So I get asked a questioin by a forum team member, give and honest response then get hassled about what I am. Nice, however I still am allowed a view

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

May i suggest you use google to read up about the use of smiles on a discussion forum and in particular ;),:),:D,:(

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

when there is a vote lets say something like the general election and the governing party get ousted do they lie down and die do they give up resign from politics etc?
the answer is no they start the fight back they don't take it lying down they plan for their return they increase their percentage of the voters until they have enough to carry the vote in their favour, and that is what we will do and if that upsets you may i suggest a move to communist china your views would be welcomed there 1 party total domination seems to be your thing ;)

and for the record i am a model employee and have just received yet another award from the company for my selflessness in the line of duty.
thats putting the company/customers interest before my own .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Agreed, I have tried to be civil at all times in this thread.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

You make it sound like you storm Omaha beach on a daily basis :D

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

i am the very glue that holds it all together and i make a cracking brew.:)

and when i say glue i don't mean that modern rubbish i mean traditional glue made from bull poop spit and iron . and the closest i get to the beach is having a walk on a sunny day.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

I would never say that our job is anything like attacking Omaha beach or will ever match the bravery of those that did land on Omaha beach, however the stress can at times be overpowering when it hits the fan :(.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

this still seems to be smouldering- vm management are now saying they are upset at the way the union handled the vote situation apparently the union sent out letters encouraging members to strike and picket vm establishments -strange i never got a letter nor did any other union member i know suggesting any action be taken other than try to increase membership .:confused:

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

We are now at 100% all thanks to this :)

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

no surprise there

what is baffling me is that management have decided to drag this up again just as things where going quiet, its like they just wanted to put the final boot in ,which has revived discussions around the offices , and people are asking where is the evidence of the vote

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

That will keep the union smiling. Notice that they were keen to publish lots of stuff on stealing rights but have not mentioned the outcome from the Albert Dock court case?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

is there an outcome yet ?

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Not seen anything yet including in the local press.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

legal challenges tend to be slow .

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

From what i can gather it was held over a week ago. Probably a bad sign then, if they had won there would have been a press release from them. virgin won't release anything as the original decision affected a number of people and they wouldn't want it dragging up again I assume.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Well i do know that it was put on hold for a week due to legal reasons, so it may still be in progress.

Re: You can't get me I'm part of the Union........
 

Ah, wasn't aware of that