Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

For two good police officers with their whole lives in front of them to lose their lives because some lowlife wants to live in relative luxury as a hero in prison is for me the most tragic part of this ,i will have no problem if the guards keep him in solitary for the rest of his life .,probably be against his 'uman rights though

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

It's my belief that if the police where armed then a lot of the 'hardened crims' who wouldn't think twice about doing somebody with a baseball bat would become quivering cowards when faced by two armed cops ,sure some would fight back but most are natural cowards when the playing field has been leveled.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

and i notice that the usual police hating suspects are absent from the thread

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

I certainly do not hate the police and hopefully this guy will get sorted in prison as per my comment on page one.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Thats because they dont have the guts to so up

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:44 ----------

[/COLOR]He will have many a defender when he gets in jail from those who still feel our jails are to hard on the *******s.

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:47 ----------

:confused: no one said you did ?

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

I know who he meant though which shows how much of this thread had been read before the comment.

The murderer ( who I refuse to name as it would be offensive in the context of this thread ) needs putting down nothing less but we know it will not happen as the dogooders will seek to rehabilitate him.:mad:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Do you now ,it may surprise you to know that i hadn't given you a thought.Anyway i'm not going to turn this thread into a bickerfest .It would appear that in this thread our thoughts are as one so peace out :Peaceman:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

He's been charged with the shooting of four people. When this low life gets life it will be all about his human rights. As far as I'm concerned as soon as you have been found guilty of killing somebody you loose your human rights.

What about the rights of the four people he has killed, sorry charged with killing as he has not been found guilty as yet, he has his rights :mad:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

To be honest i bet the human rights of the victims will not be even considered whilst his will be.. :rolleyes:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Well I don't know who you mean. Is there anyone on CF who "hates" the police?

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

No need to as this person needs to be put away forever without any possibility of parole.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

No as it would be so obvious.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

No. They need to aim first :dozey:

Again, with the exception of a handful of countries the UK is one of the very few not to have an armed Police force or at least easy access to firearms. All those forces manage it so why couldn't the UK?

Currently a 3 week course can take someone who has never handled a gun before into being proficient with pistol, carbine, taser and baton gun. A 3 or 4 day course focusing on defensive tactics and safe handling and use would be achievable. A day or half day refresher every six months wouldnt be beyond the realms of possibility either.

My motives are wanting to go home to my family in one piece.

Actually more like 20 feet. And axe wielding thugs, in my experience so far twice, plus numerous knifes and swords, a home made morning star, stun gun and numerous hammers, baseball bats and other goodies.

Plus if a barb misses, he is wearing heavy clothing or for some other reason your kind of stuffed. If the first shot from a glock misses you have another 16 to use.

Rather low amongst the officers at a rank where they still own and wear a tunic... At the sharp end it's a little higher. And the last Fed survey didn't exist in Scotchland but the stories I'm hearing from down south would seem to suggest the polling wasnt exactly exhaustive when it came to front line officers and was more concentrated on CID and office dwellers.

Yep. I'm sure his Xbox, gym, library and bed are all being warmed up for him at HMP Hilton now where he'll be treated like royalty, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes an outburst of some sort at his court appearance today.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

You should be fine, a career in the police doesn't register anywhere on the most dangerous jobs list.

http://yahoo.careerbuilder.co.uk/Art...lr=int_ukyahoo

You family would be more worried if you worked on trawler or a building site.

Even in America, where guns are prevelant police only just get into the top ten

source:http://criminologycareers.about.com/...ce-Careers.htm

Sleep easy.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

I'm sure those stats will bring a lot of comfort to those 2 women's families.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Of course they wont, but that's not the context with which I was using the stats and you know it.

So no real need to point that out was there?

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Thanks for that. I'll remember the next time I feel my life is in danger that it could be worse. :dozey:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Yes, there was. Of all the professions you posted, how many of the deaths are attributed to murders or attempted murders on the job? Where having a firearm could have made a difference?

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Back to the saying lies ,damn lies, & statistics.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Correct....."could" have a made a difference, as opposed to "would" have made a difference.

They certainly made a difference to the 8 people that have been shot since 2005 that didn't have a weapon on them.

By the way that's 40% of the peopl shot by police in the last 7 years did not have a weapon on them.

Considering that they were shot by specially trained armed response units.

It doesn't take a massive leap to extrapolate that if you give a gun to every beat cop that that percentage would increase or at the very least stay the same.

One thing for sure though is the number of people shot would go up.

40% isn't a good enough pass rate.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

You seem to have missed (or avoided) the point. None of the other professions in that list face the type of risks that police experience on a day to day basis. I'm not saying the risks are greater or less, but Police risk intentional attacks or death each day.

That's very different from those other vocations, the majority of which I'd suggest would be down to accidents.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Fair enough, but if you are pro: arm the beat cop.

what do you say to the rest of my post?

???

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

I'm not pro 'arm the police'. The point I'm making is comparing risks that the police face each day to that of other jobs just based on deaths alone is redundant. No other profession faces the same kind of dangers.

If the police are to be armed then the decision and indeed the research needs to come from frontline officers, not those sitting behind a desk whose biggest health risk is dropping the stapler on their foot.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

And in all of those there were extenuating circumstances, the cops didn't just decide to execute some randoms in the street.

Which again totally avoids the point that if the two cops were armed they might not be dead now. At least one managed to draw a taser, if she had a glock then she might have been able to safe herself and knowing the accused was too cowardly to face the Police and handed himself in that just may have changed his mind about ambushing and murdering two officers.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

For sake of argument, it isn't redundant.

If you look at the list, aircraft pilots don't face the same risks as farmers and roofers don't face the same risks as refuse collectors.

That list was posted in reply to the statement that he wanted to go home to his family in one piece.

and regardless of all the differences of risks if a policeman and trawlerman leave their families in the morning the policeman is more likely to return home than the trawlerman.

That's the point I was making and it is valid.

P.S. I have a very big stapler.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

And that's because he faces different risks to anyone else. Not greater or lesser risks, just different. And those risks are what this thread is about. Arming the Police would make those risk more or less. Applying the same logic to a refuse collector (for example) doesn't make sense. The risks they face aren't usually based on someone intentionally trying to hurt or kill them.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Of course not.

Police are as human as anyone, and anyone can make a mistake.

Which is exactly the point I am making. Those mistakes were made by a handful of highly trained armed response police.

If you give every beat cop a gun, I would argue that instances of mistakes would rise, or at the least stay the same but the number of shootings would rise.

Valid points, but this exceptional circumstance, in my opinion, does not throw enough weight to arm "all" of the police.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

It was purely an illustrative example. If you can't accept it, then don't, and move on.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

It was more an irrelevant example. That's why I can't accept it.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Statistics prove nothing on there own. Your simply show the number of deaths in totally different circumstances. If you wish to compere fishermen than do that across that industry. North sea against Alaskan would be a point in case.
I have no idea what the out come would be in the case of police. Perhaps you might care to to try French , South African, Australian, USA & British With Northern Ireland as a sub total - but if its stats you want it perhaps should included ( Or would that mess with the figures you want to produce !)

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

I agree that research should involve front line officers, however I don't believe it should be as straightforward as letting them decide if they should be armed with guns.

I recall a famous example from the Vietnam conflict regarding FAC (forward air controllers) aka "bird dog" aircraft. Its often asked why didn't the FAC spotter aircraft carry weapons? The pilots wanted weapons. It was found in the early days of the war, that when equipped with guns/rockets the aircraft were getting shot down in high numbers because they were putting themselves in positions they wouldn't have had they not been "armed".

This trend has been noted in policing too, and in various countries:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...?utm_hp_ref=uk
From the above link:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

It was my understanding that Norwegian Police do carry arms, but they normally keep them locked down in their patrol cars (which would/could make them less aggressive in their style of policing).

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Sky News is reporting a 15 year old male has been arrested in connection with this.

15?!

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

10+5 or 45-30
I don't find it unusual.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Hello all, just to butt-in here; if the police (normal police) are going be armed so should the general public under lesser gun control laws just like USA it balances the two side unlike now with all the deadly item that the police carry at the moment. No good in just arming one side to abuse the the system + it people, the phrase is then " laws rules ruled by armed police" not "governmental laws" as it's now days. Remember there two side to each action, same in the case here - just as he (one holding the gun) knew after the mote killing by illegal unapproved shot gun rounds he be done over the same way -framed for his own murder like mote was.

Any how the police coming to the call was carrying tasers which even match to his hand gun, tasers in UK have killed more than guns in after side effects (unprinted evidence within UK media outlets). The real long term results one health goes unnoticed by the LEA in UK by design of the government. I say even match both sides, as we all know only one side wins in battle of wits.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Wow!

Just "wow!"....

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

I fancy a go at this Hugh :)


Where to begin .....oh yes .....we don't want the 2 sides balanced ,we want the police to have the upper hand on the crims.


The two police officers where lured to the house on a reported burglary ,there was no reason to suspect this character was there ,i know things may be a bit blurry and hazy with the bong going at full pelt but please try to read articles .

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

And this ladies and gentlemen is why you should never post when under the influence of drink or drugs. :rolleyes:

Right where do I begin. Well for a start there are virtually no countries in the democratic world with country wide rights to openly carry firearms yet the Police do and manage fine. Currently the Police carry a baton (offensive weapon), CS spray (firearm), quite probably a knife (offensive weapon) and in some cases a taser (firearm) without he general public being able to carry them without a good reason.

Oh and Raoul Moat wasn't killed by a taser x-rep round, he will killed by blowing his own face off with a shotgun, during the inquest it was shown he fired first before the police tried to incapacitate him, in any other country the minute he was spotted he'd have been shot so many times the corpse could have been sold for scrap metal.

Go on, find one, just one example of where a taser has killed someone in the UK, let alone more people than regular firearms.

And a taser versus a handgun? Thats in no way a fair fight, the actual gun will win almost every time in terms of range, accuracy, deadliness, and number of shots.

Anyway keep taking the pills. :erm:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

What ever you are taking STOP now before you start to really believe your own bull excreta

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Dale Cregan's in court.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21386021

Evidently the two women were shot as soon as he opened the front door. They had no chance. Hope this guy get's a life sentence that means LIFE! :mad:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Our wimpy liberal laws and canny lawyers will ensure he does not. :mad:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

The evidence so far has been simply shocking. 32 shots fired at the cops in 31 seconds, some when they were on the ground incapacitated.

If there was any justice Creggan would be put in a deep, dark hole for the rest of his days rather than HMP Hilton. Jail clearly doesn't scare him, he gave up knowing he will get a whole life tariff rather than go against armed officers.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Must feel real big killing two unarmed women..:mad:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

There should be only one option for an animal like him, however its not on the table :mad:

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

The real sad thing is that when he does get inside ,and i do believe it will be for the rest of his life ,he will be treated as a hero and king by the other prisoners

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

I think the comeback will be that he killed two unarmed women..that's not going to get him much respect from the hard men..;)

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

He new he was going down for murder so decided to kill some cops to make his life comfortable inside .Most cops killed in the uk are unarmed in that they don't have guns or knives but the killers still live like kings inside ,there may be some dislike from some inmates because they where women but not that much imo

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

I agree Maggy. I have to say that I hope his pretty boy looks attract some unwanted attention as well. I don't normally wish pain on anyone but in his case I will make an exception.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Sorry Maggy i don't agree, he will be a hero to them its as simple as that. WHY because he killed 2 coppers and that's how it will be seen, *******s don't care if they were women and unarmed.

These are *******s were talking about here not normal people

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20315456

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

If he has admitted to killing the Police officers then they should stop the trial now and throw in solitary confinement, he should then be in there for the rest of his life and they should not allow him any contact with anyone other than a warder who brings him his minimum rations on each of the rest of his days in prison. There should be no visitors and he should NEVER be allowed to leave the jail. If we cannot hang him then he should be punished every single day of the rest of his miserable life.

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

Re: 2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester
 

And your point is what. This is very old news ?