Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Well we wouldn't because the US could be a big problem for us. That's international politics for you. It's also a problem if people facing extradition can abscond to a embassy, that's going to raise a few eye brows as well.

At least our course of action hasn't happened yet, it just remains on the table. We're getting criticised for a course of action we haven't even began proceedings on and Ecuador blows a hole though the concept of extradition and we're the ones causing the problem!

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

We're digging a hole for them because we are telling them we can go in despite this being a major headache. We are maneuvering ourselves in a position that we can't explain to either the Swedes, the Ecuadorians or the rest of the world. The smart thing to do would be to say: he's in Ecuadorian Territory now, so he's not our problem. If he sets foot on British territory we'll arrest him and extradite him.

Kicking the Ecuadorian diplomats out would not be a wise move either. First, it would mean that we don't have an official channel to talk to them. Second, kicking the diplomats out is usually only done as a last resort (we still have an embassy in Argentina, and we're not exactly best mates with the Argies). Third, the UK would be seen as untrustworthy as it severs diplomatic ties with a country over something as trivial as who the country grants asylum (which ultimately is an internal issue).

Really, we are digging a big hole in my opinion. Neither of the two options is viable. We really are best off holding our hands up and saying "there's not a lot we can do right now".

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

wholeheartedly agree that Ecuador should not be putting us in this position in the first place but then we may not have helped ourselves by granting him bail

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The minute he steps off Ecuadorian soil he will be arrested,extradited to Sweden.be put on trial and hopefully justice will seen to have been done.

Or he can spend the next 10,20,30 years in the Ecuador embassy.

Either way it's a result.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

There's no doubting that :D

There's also the possibility that the amount of mail leaving the Ecuadorian Embassy in lead clad coffin-sized cases suddenly leaps. All good entertainment :D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

My thoughts exactly u beat me to it..

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Logic rarely has a place in conspiracy theories...

Indeed.

I did find this amusing...

Julian Assange still locked in building to avoid being locked in building

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Well, if Mr Assange gets to Ecuador, he better not criticise the President or any goverment official.....

Times (behind paywall)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yup. He also worked for the Kremlin funded Russia TV whilst decrying America's lack of the freedom of speech. :dozey:

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...s-8053869.html

Great article.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

It disgusts me that some Assange supporters continue to make incorrect claims that what he is alleged to have done would not constitute rape under English law... or even *any* kind of crime under English law. The stuff I have seen on Twitter baffles and sickens me, as does a lot of stuff I've seen in the equivalent thread to this over on DigitalSpy.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

These morons are the ilk that have hijacked the left and turned it into something crazy. Some of them are morons, some of them are really nasty, horrible, people.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

There was a case not so long ago where a footballer was sent to jail because the woman was drunk and deemed "not capable of giving consent " and isn't that the case in one of the charges against Assange ?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Alleged Offence Number 4, from the High Court judgement:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/...2011/2849.html

This is an allegation of rape under English law, as it is impossible to obtain consent from someone who is asleep.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Check out the pirate bay site i think there has been a bit of skulduggery going on :D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

:LOL:

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19310335

How's he going to do that then? Big TV outside? Hundreds of people in V masks trying to outmanoeuvre the cops? Hoping shouting "I'm from Ecuador! Look I've got a llama!" will avoid him being huckled?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Snigger! I was wondering that.Perhaps he's going to declaim from a balcony or try leaning out of a window.:)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Those people in V masks are morons of the highest order. "Look at me, I'm just like the people in the movie!"

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Why are they Morons? The Movie makes a good point, that no nation should accept any kind of corrupt government that can bend the rules whenever it sees fit and use mass propaganda to back up it's actions. I am in favour of anyone standing up to a corrupt government, these masks kind of portray a standing up to the government.

These people in the mask believe the storming (Oh look, I've used this term again, get over it) of another Embassy is illegal under International Law and Treaties and strongly object to it, but at least we have established, they are not going to do this any time soon, to do so would be diplomatic suicide. So don't think there is any need for the displaying of such masks just yet.

So far. I am led to believe going off the news, that 1 Million pound has been spent on Police presence outside the embassy already. It's a bloody farce. It's one man, in a foreign nations Embassy, being accused of a sexual assault and as I have said previously, he is only at the accused stage.

The amount of resources being applied to get this one man is pathetic. Any one would think he was guilty of being a Terrorist the amount attention he is getting from Authority figures.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Perhaps our more affluent Masters across the pond will foot the bill?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!!

It's interesting that a number of people who normally would demand that someone who had been accused of sexual assault and rape should have their gonads removed with blunt shears, seem to have a different viewpoint on this....

btw, an important point to remember is this is all only happening because he doesn't want to be questioned in the country where the crime was alleged to have been committed - no other reason.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yes, odd that eh?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

from a balcony ,if he goes on british soil he gets arrested so a balcony is the only other option

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Why is it interesting? Perhaps those people are skeptical about the allegations?

It's laughable the amount of Judges and Juries present in this thread who have made their mind up and convinced he his guilty of such allegations.

I am not bothered either way if he is or isn't. As I have said already, I am no fan of him - I just think all this trouble to get someone for an accusation is over the top and not worth the diplomatic mess it is creating.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Fine then lets get this over with. Enter the embassy arrest that alleged rapist and then deal with the fallout later.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The movie makes a hardly revolutionary point. The existence of an extremely totalitarian government taking over a country and imposing it's will on the population is an very common trope in film and literature. It's a plot device for a fun film which ends with a cool sequence of Parliament blowing up with everyone wearing Guy Fawkes masks.

However people take the whole pseudo-philosophy far too seriously. There is little in the film that offers much insight into real politics or the world. It reminds me of the people waving copies of 1984 around. It's worth mentioning that Alan Moore thought it missed the point and depth of this creation.

So I wonder what point they are making or are they just caught up the romance of the idea? There seems to be few substantial ideas behind the mask and the we're dealing with complicated issues here.

Anyway I don't care that much about the masks. Not enough to make it into an issue. So I retract calling them all 'morons'. It was just meant to be a throwaway remark.

I am not especially bothered by the use of the 'storming of the embassy'. I only objected because it was an over-emotive and dramatic representation of the rather mundane truth. That the UK was willing to revoke diplomatic protection for the embassy based on a law enacted a couple of decades ago. It would take months and years of court action and I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting it was a likely outcome. The way it was portrayed was that the SAS were poised to raid the place. I agree it would be a stupid thing to do and it was a stupid thing to invoke. It was bad politics which Ecuador were quick to exploit.

However when we're talking about international law it's also pretty questionable to use your embassy to protect someone from allegations of sexual assault. Especially when that someone has had the full use of the legal system to argue their case. As Hague said: "[Diplomatic Asylum] should not be used for the purposes of escaping the regular processes of the court". This is not what embassies were meant to do and it is not why they are granted protection under International law. It can easily be argued that Ecuador have brought a risk to their on embassy on themselves by abusing such privileges.

Well his own actions have ensured that Sweden can't take it past the accused stage just yet. This is a brilliantly circular argument whereby the investigation can't progress because he is fighting his extradition but the case for the extradition is harmed because the investigation hasn't progressed. He'll never have to face justice under such a view.

£1 million is sickening and depressing but we can't write it off. The blame for the cost is entirely at the hands of Mr Assange himself and not the police who are simply carrying out their legal obligations. You don't abandon a pursuit of a suspect because of cost, you shouldn't anyway.

He is getting attention because of his public persona. The government wanted little to do with him preferring to leave it to the courts (as they should be doing) until he made it a international problem by avoiding the courts in the ecuadorian embassy.

---------- Post added at 13:18 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

Sweden aren't that rich.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I disagree.

The Fall out you mention would be catastrophic for the UK - you could see several nations, probably the entire Latin America, end diplomatic ties with the UK, this also includes trade and what not with Britain. We are already in a financial mess in this country we don't need more trouble, just because we have a need to catch one man.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I haven't decided he is guilty. I think he should face justice and let the courts decide, not public opinion. Additionally actual judges have decided that he should do that too.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

That's fine Damien and I don't disagree with this, I just don't agree with the row this is creating and messing up our diplomatic ties in the process to get the man to justice.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

He has admitted something went on with 2 of his SUPPORTERS and that his behaviour wasn't very pleasant. IT IS NOT A CASE OF 2 RANDOM WOMEN MAKING ACCUSATIONS WHICH HAVE NO BASIS IN REALITY.
I'm not too sure that I would be happy if my behaviour was described in that way.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Well, he's made his speech and stood on his public platform (or balcony) and basically urged the U.S to drop it's pursuit against Wikileaks.

He apologised to his family and Children, but hinted at being reunited with them 'soon'.

He didn't step outside the Embassy, instead used the balcony and was still in the realms of the Ecuadorian Embassy and untouchable.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Go Boris!

http://a.yfrog.com/img877/8928/33zw.png

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I like him talking being united against oppression and citing the case of Pussy Riot. Don't think his slot of Kremlin funded Russia Today will have the latter on anytime soon....

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

What a pile of self-serving guff. I stomached the first five minutes or so then had to switch off. Did he have anything at all to say about the substantive issue of rape allegations in Sweden and the perfectly transparent and legal extradition proceedings he's hiding from in the UK?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I didn't realise that the police had already been in the embassy

http://news.sky.com/story/974310/ass...top-witch-hunt

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

And the two women he allegedly raped, where do they stand? Those who stood surety for his bail.Where do they stand?

If he had any real depth of character he would have gone back to Sweden voluntarily.I view him as a moral coward who has no right to pontificate about the transparency of governments when he is far from being an honest dealer himself.As I see it he is the sort who is inclined to run away from the results of his actions not some sort of freedom or human rights fighter.All he does is leave others to pick up the pieces.:(

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

He talked about how "a courageous Latin American nation took a stand for justice"... :erm:

I did not realise that giving political asylum to someone accused of rape and sexual assault, and who is wanted for extradition via a perfectly legal and properly issued European Arrest Warrant, was classed as taking a "stand for justice"...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

A reasonable comment by one of the posters on the BBC news story....

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

A quote from Assange...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19310335

"A dangerous and oppressive world in which journalists fall silent under the fear of prosecution"?

Sounds more like Ecuador to me than the USA...

http://en.rsf.org/ecuador.html

http://www.hrw.org/americas/ecuador

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The man is living in a twisted parallel universe where sinister men in black are waiting to kidnap and "disappear" people who speak out against the status quo. As are, I suspect, most of the small but noisy crowd that came to the embassy to worship at his feet this afternoon.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

So if the President says he won't be extradited would he go back to Sweden and face the Swedish courts..Do I sense a possible way for the UK government to sort out the issue?:erm:






Nah! I don't think so.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

No ,not even mentioned ,he used the speech as a platform to demand the freedom of some "political" prisoners and suck up to the south americans ,oh and an apology to his family

full guff here

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/331095

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The Building has 'shared' ownership status or something so Police are allowed right in the Lobby and or corridors. But not the actual Embassy part itself, until of course Diplomatic status has been revoked from the Embassy and it no longer controlled by it's foreign counterpart.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

It would have made a good money supermarket .com advert 'cos looking at him on that balcony i reckon he felt .....EPIC

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The ego-stroking that was going on was quite sickening.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I foolishly waded into The Guardian's comments section to point out that the allegations against Assange would count as rape. I wish I hadn't bothered.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yeah. I can imagine what it's like there...

I was taking part in the DS thread previously, but eventually gave up in disgust because of certain people's repeated insistance that what he has been accused of allegedly doing doesn't count as rape in the UK, or even count as any offence.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yes that's what is annoying me. Lots of 'well if that's rape then we're all rapists!' stuff as well, slightly disconcerting....:erm:

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yes that's what I thought he'd do, either that or cut large chunks of their carpet up and stick them to his shoes...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I wonder if anyone has a book on the eventual outcome?

I'm thinking he ends up living in the embassy for the next 15 years;)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

:rofl: Sorry but I almost choked on my drink, reading this.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yes :(

They all seem to be ignoring the *fact* that the alleged offences would be offences under English law, and ignoring the *fact* that alleged offence number four (the allegation that Assange had sex with one woman while she was asleep) fits the definition of rape under English law.

I've seen comments online implying that because a man may not have an issue with being woken up by a woman having sex with him or performing oral sex on him, then what's the big deal regarding a woman allegedly being woken up by a man having penetrative sex with her. I've also seen comments from people joking that they must have therefore raped their partners previously if it's a crime to have sex without consent or to have sex with someone incapable of giving consent (i.e. due to sleep), and even seen comments harking back to the days when marital rape was legal.

It's disgusting.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The indefensible in support of the indefensible.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I don't think it is at all relevant to the topic that we are discussing rhetoric written on other sites.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Assange is behaving like the charges will disappear if he doesn't address them .The overall impression i got from the sermon on the balcony to his followers was that they don't really matter, the big issue is ,ME,ME,ME,it's all about poor old persecuted me .He shouldn't forget that it was his choice to try to expose government corruption and dodgy dealings so he should be prepared for trouble, but to use his political cause as a means to escape justice by the rule of law is hypocritical and not serving what would otherwise be a laudable cause and one i generally would support

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

If the US can enter Pakistan and Assassinate the world's most wanted man you can be sure Julian Assange stand's little chance.

America WILL get this guy and it's just a matter of time. This man and his associates have leaked sensitive information including defensive information of arguably the most powerful nation on the planet, His supporters are generally made up of weed smoking hippies that think the government is out to get them.

Regardless of what he thinks he is doing is good, He's not Batman or the Dark Knight of the interwebs. He's broken the law countless times and they are not exactly minor offences.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

In my eye's he is a traitor who put people's lives at risk in Iraq and Afghanistan and to top that he is allegedly a low life **** bag rapist and sex offender. His time will come and soon you can bet your mortgage on it.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Trouble is he is well on his way to martyrdom .The only way that can be avoided is for the US to swallow their pride and renounce any claim to him ,removing his perceived need to hide away in the embassy and allowing him to prove his innocence on the sex crimes ,which oddly doesn't seem to be at the top of his agenda

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I doubt it. His supporters may be vocal, but they're just a bunch of fringe lunatics. I don't think support for Assange is wide-spread, and he's not gaining any by the way he's behaving at present.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

No but he was in a rush to get off...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I notice he kept on checking out the "grassy knoll " :D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yes, I'm not sure whether his definition of justice is a moveable feast. I wonder if he selected Ecuador as a potential safe haven because of their human rights record.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

A traitor to whom, not his own nation that's for sure, to call him such is playing right into the hands of people like congressman King and the nut jobs who called for his public assasination.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The impression I got, is that he has lost supporters, the minute he breached his bail conditions by entering the Ecuadorian Embassy.

Judging by his speech today, he is waiting for the US to give a cast iron guarantee that they will not pursue him any further and or Wikileaks and it's members.

I can not see the US dropping it's pursuit in him or Wikileaks any time soon.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I can see his flight to Sweden ending up in Washington. It would be Hilarious seeing this guy wake up on American Soil.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Surely for the US to renounce any claim to him, there would have to be a claim in the first place.

What Assange and his supporters seem to forget is that at no point has the US actually requested his extradition... nor has it even charged or indicted him with any crime.


Yes. As the links I posted earlier show, Ecuador is clearly a shining beacon of anti-corruption and journalistic freedoms :erm:

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

There's worse places to live than Ecuador and if Mr Putin ever reads this Justin Bieber and One Direction were just singing nasty songs about you.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Also if the US renounced any claim to him what if he then released some really sensitive information? Giving him blanket immunity simply so he will consent to facing allegations from Sweden? It's not going to happen and he knows it which is why he asked for it. Makes it look like 'somethings going on'. Even if the US did say 'we will not extradite Assange for any of the crimes thus far' will give him a chance to claim that the Americans will instead invent another crime and their 'conditional' promise is worth nothing.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Gorgeous George Galloway has given his enlightened opinion on the sexual assault/rape allegations.

BBC

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. However, all this discussion of what constitutes rape is entirely besides the point. The Swedish authorities have made a lawful request for his extradition, which the UK intends to honour. End of, as the kids say.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

No I'd go with their extradition laws myself..;)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

i think you will find that if they ever get hold of him they want to have the death penalty as an option if they extradite from here they have to forgo that option as we wont extradite with out that being taken out of the sentencing options where as Sweden don't seem to insist

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Sweden will insist. Not only is it part of their treaty but it's enforced by the European Court of Human Rights. He simply cannot be extradited from the EU with the death penalty as an option.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Just because the maximum sentence is a particular thing, doesn't necessarily mean that is the sentence that is given or even considered. How often is the sentence of the death penalty applied in cases where it could be?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Just when a Political row erupts. George Galloway wades in and unwinds his neck....

http://news.sky.com/story/975347/gal...o-assange-case

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

What is it they say "any publicity is good publicity"

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Galloway really is a moron. There is nothing he won't support as long as they are against the US. A professionally contrarian utterly corrupted by anti-americanism.Wish Christopher Hitchens was still alive, he would be on the warpath about this case.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I think anyone who saw his performance on Celebrity Big Brother would probably assume that George's ideas of sex possibly aren't the same as most people's. He certainly seemed to enjoy playing at being a cat a little too much.

What George doesn't seem to grasp is that (according to the solicitor at the end of that article) having sex with someone who is sleeping is counted as rape as they cannot consent. Also, consent isn't a permanent thing. Just because "woman a" consented to sex with "man b" once, it doesn't "man b" then has consent to have his way with her whenever he wants.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

If he is Anti-American, in this video in question, I couldn't help but notice that he had a picture of the Assassinated US President, John. F. Kennedy on prominent display, what is this trying to portray?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yeah, it's the same argument people have when they don't think it's possible to rape a woman if you're married to them. Woman as property.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

It's not just rape according to the lawyer in that article - it's rape according to the law of England and Wales.

This has also been confirmed by British judges at each level of Assange's attempts to appeal the extradition & EAW: Alleged Offence No. 4 (the "sleep sex") is, under the law of England and Wales, an allegation of rape.

http://jackofkent.com/2012/06/assang...r-english-law/

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:07 ----------

A very good piece from "TwitterJokeTrial" solicitor and New Statesman legal blogger David Allen Green ("Jack of Kent"):

Legal myths about the Assange extradition

It covers the following BS claims repeatedly made by Assange supporters:


And here's a detailed post from barrister Anya Palmer on the whole "Why doesn't Sweden interview Assange in London?" thing:

http://storify.com/anyapalmer/why-do...ange-in-london

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Maybe his head is so far up his own bottom he did not see the picture in question :D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Galloway and Todd Akin seem to be on the same wave length when it comes to myths about rape ,he claims that women rarely get pregnant from "legitimate rape" because the female body can fight it off

seems to me that Assange,galloway and akin have some rather peculiar ideas



Oh and if someone can give me some idea of what "legitimate rape" is i'd be greatful

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Lets hope they never meet, they'll form some sort of ring with these ideas...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I understand that WikiLeaks has leaked quite damning evidence of widespread corruption involving the government and the police in Equador.

Does anyone have any links to any of this on the internet as I can't seem to locate it? TIA

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Either he doesn't believe America was 'evil' in those days (although their foreign policy then is hardly much better than it is now, replace 'War on Terror' with 'Cold War') or he thinks Kennedy was assassinated by the corrupt American regeme. Who knows. He certainly is anti-American now, it dominates almost every position he holds.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Although I'd prefer Assange to go to Sweden, I would find this solution acceptable...

Foreign Office; ‘Ecuador can keep Assange as long as they take Galloway as well’

;)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Here's a documentary I've found on the Assange case that some may find interesting:

"Sex, Lies and Julian Assange"
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stori...19/3549280.htm

It's rather long'ish at 46 minutes duration, but goes into considerable detail about the events surrounding the case. I found it worth the watch.

---------- Post added at 18:43 ---------- Previous post was at 18:20 ----------

And here it is on youtube as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqNR376L4rU

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Propaganda in support of an Australian citizen...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Evidence? Or are we just to accept your sweeping claim as gospel?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Well, you seem to be accepting some of the sweeping claims in the video as gospel (set up conspiracy, the US are behind it all, the Swedish Government are lapdogs of the USA).

A lot of what Fowler stated was assumption, not fact.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

There are 13 pages of "discussion" here based on very few facts at all. In this thread I've seen more twisting of facts than factual discussion.

I found the video yesterday, and many of the details mentioned therein I'd already read on the net weeks ago. I thought it convenient to have it all in one video, with a lot of eyewitness testimony too. If those witnesses on camera giving their experiences are lying, they could be later held to account and/or sued. That gives them more credibility than some anonymous source in an online news article.

As Mark Twain once said, a lie can get half way around the world before the truth has even got its boots on.
The media have run so far with this whole "rape" thing that it really makes a mockery of what the media stand for, utterly shambolic in my view.
This is why I didn't get involved earlier in this or any discussion on Assange, because its nothing but a big circus show, with acts from all around. Best I think just to let the nonsense blow over, and wait for the facts to emerge.

Even Woman Against Rape can see this media circus for what it is:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...julian-assange

As far as I'm concerned, and any self respecting human being should be concerned, Assange is innocent until proven guilty. He is not yet in Sweden, and he might not be for many months to speak (again) with investigators. He is STILL innocent until proven guilty.

I find it a rather interesting lesson in human psychology, how so many people, through their own prejudices (ie. don't like Assange, hatred of men, hatred/dislike of womanisers, rapists, etc) only see what they want to in this case whilst ignoring the rest. It seems there's a little something in this case for everyone to pick and choose from, then get up on their soapbox and shout about.

Here's where I am with this case. If there was justice in this world, the person accused of rape would have anonymity until at the very least charges had been brought, and ideally they'd have anonymity until a crime had been proven. What has happened here is not justice. Just because some people may not like Assange, does not justify or otherwise excuse what is happening. We've got some guy branded as a rapist without evidence. Pure conjecture, taken from the statements given, no evidence that a crime has even been committed, and many people think that's acceptable because it suits their own agenda. Those people are part of the problem. As far as the media are concerned he's as guilty as alleged. What a nasty little world we live in, my goodness grief.

Now without evidence, its impossible for us to know exactly what happened.
But some discussions and conclusions I've been reading are just utterly ridiculous.
Consider the following example:
If a woman wakes up and she is either being penetrated or touched in a sexual manner, then since she could not have consented, is automatically a sex crime and illegal - even if they are in a loving relationship.

That is nonsense, whether or not its a sex crime should be up to the person at the receiving end (in this case the woman), if she's decided she's been molested then she can go to the police and claim she was molested or raped (whichever is appropriate). It is NOT for anyone else to stick their nose into their business, look a few facts and then automatically assume rape, as seems to have been the case here. If the law still says its a crime, then in the interest of preventing innocent people from becoming labelled as sex offenders, the law should be changed.

I'm sure many men here have awoken to being touched in that way by a woman, but they'd never have dreamt of running to the police, having her charged with sexual molestation, and hoping to see her on the sex offenders list. Nor would they want that to happen should an account of what had happened that morning, somehow was mentioned within earshot of the police.

If a person could be so easily accused of rape by a third party, even against the wishes of the person at the receiving end, then it really makes a mockery of the word "rape", and is an insult to those who've been at the receiving end of rape.

Anyway, as far as the US being behind the Assange extradition is concerned, its impossible to know if this is true as we don't have the facts.
My view is that Assange is in pretty deep because of his association with wikileaks (being the founder) and that if he isn't apprehended then he will be looking over his shoulder probably for the rest of his life.
However, it is my understanding that the US gov still does not know exactly how wikileaks got all their information, and are no doubt concerned whether or not they (wikileaks) have another source that could further embarrass or compromise US military assets/interests.
I reckon that if the US gov believes Mr Assange holds the key there, then they will go to great lengths to get him one way or another, in the interest of national security of course.

Its been mentioned that if the US wants him then they could just have him extradited from here, well yes they could. But not if they've got a water board with Assange's name on it, then that might not be so simple....If they plan on forcibly extracting information from him, then the UK is a tinder box of future legal ramifications. Best let him leave the UK and deal with him later.

Also, you only have to look at the Gary McKinnon plight to see how the UK/USA extradition treaty has a limited life span. If too many people are extradited (even just one too many), then the UK gov will have to give in to the pubic dismay and have the extradition rules changed. The US gov knows this. Even though Assange is not a UK citizen, if anything should happen to him in the US or if he should end up in Guantanamo Bay (assuming he was extradited from here) that might cause UK public outrage, then he may as well be a UK citizen because it could still lead to a change in the extradition rules.

So yes, its not outside the reason of possibility for the US to have reason not to extradite Assange straight from the UK.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Doesn't mean anything. We're not saying he is guilty, we're saying he should face the legal process to decide such a thing. He can never be found guilty if he isn't brought to a court.

:dozey:

We do have the fact that the US haven't started an extradition request. We also know they could have done so here if they wanted do. So we're meant to lend credence to your conspiracy because they 'may' be facts we don't know about.

Personally I think you're Assange. It's impossible to know. We don't have all the facts.

No. Same ramifications. Also we would have to approve the extradition request anyway because you can't have a third-party (Sweden) extradite someone without the permission of the first-party (UK).

Where are these facts in your post?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

So, the US has an extradition treaty with the UK that is *so* good, they can't afford to use it? This is precisely the sort of reverse logic that characterises all truly nutty conspiracy theories.

Your post was an entertaining read, especially the part where you sought to disparage all the discussion based on "very few facts at all". I bet you even wrote it with a straight face.

For a more level-headed discussion of the latest developments in this case, Dan Hodges is worth a read:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...nce-held-dear/

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

To most people, that really goes without saying but I guess in your case it doesn't. What you are implying, is that since Assange has delayed returning to Sweden, then we can jump to conclusions. I don't think so.

Already addressed in my previous post above.

Rubbish. Without the facts you're speculation about Assange's actions are nothing but hear'say, and possibly libel.
And for your information, its not that there "may" be facts we don't know about, we "genuinely" don't have them !

Its not just that we don't have all the facts Damian, its that we have "too few facts" to draw any definitive conclusions.

Completely irrelevant. I was talking about the US extraditing Assange from the UK to the US (instead of to Sweden), and you're telling me the third party requires the first party's permission. You don't say.

I already stated that we don't have them, and I for one never claimed to have the facts. Nice try though, even if you do choose to throw your toys out the pram at my insistence you can't have a virtual Assange lynching because you don't have the facts to draw any definitive conclusions.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Like Assange himself in his speech last Sunday, you seek to muddy the waters by addressing everything except the substantive issue.

Julian Assange, in the words of Dan Hodges who I linked to above, has had his extradition request

Do you believe this legal, ratified extradition should go ahead, or not?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I'd certainly be nutty to expect any better from a lynch mob Chris. If you go back and actually read my post, I never said that extradition is *so* good they can't afford to use it, they simply don't *need* to.

In the absence of any extradition to Sweden, then they could go ahead and decide whether or not to extradite Assange from the UK. I'm no legal expert, but even I can see they don't need to do this.

13 pages of rubbish Chris. Pure conjecture, with very few facts, one could paint the discussion any way they chose, based on one's own prejudices rather than definitive facts. Excuse me whilst I reserve my judgement until a person has been proved guilty as alleged.

---------- Post added at 16:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:59 ----------

I'm inclined to believe that this case is politically motivated.
If too you believed it was politically motivated (for the aforementioned reasons), do you think this legal, ratified extradition should go ahead?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

He is innocent until proven guilty. However, the fact he has run to several countries (the UK and Ecuador effectively) rather than argue that innocence in court is, shall we say, odd. It could be taken to imply feelings of guilt.

The same goes both ways. To paraphrase you: "I find it a rather interesting lesson in human psychology, how so many people, through their own prejudices (ie. don't like the US, US Government or any large Government, etc) only see what they want to in this case whilst ignoring the rest."

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:05 ----------

I'd be surprised if it was politically motivated.

Here's why. Depending on who you believe, Assange is either in a position to do real damage, or he isn't. If he is, then the people involved are likely to want him out of the picture ASAP. The quickest way to do this would be to let him stand trial for the crime of which he is accused.

If he isn't in a position to cause real damage (as Stella Rimmington appeared to be implying the other day), then the powers that be probably aren't any more bothered by him than they are by a lot of people.

Another way at looking at it is that if the US do want to extradite him (and we have seen no evidence they have started proceedings - I am certain the Assange camp would make a lot of noise if they had), and they succeed, they will make him a Martyr. They don't want that. A Martyr is often a more powerful call to arms than almost anything else.

In the meantime, if the papers submitted to court are accurate, we have two women who have been raped, and their attacker (be it Assange or anyone else) is running free. How is that fair?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The rest of the information we have doesn't seem to paint that picture, he has given a statement, the case was dropped, reopened without explanation, and some reports suggest this was on the insistence of the police, not the alleged victims. This is also, shall we say, odd.

Haha. I like that. Another attempt to pigeon hole me, many have tried Stuart. Good luck. I don't have prejudices, I just call things how I see them.
My parents were US military, I've lived all over the world, much of that time on military bases in foreign countries. And yes Im a US citizen working in the UK.
But because I may disagree with you then I'm automatically one of the tin hatters trying to bring down the US government. Yes, I like that.

Pure fantasy though. I live in the real world, where things don't happen exactly as they say in the papers, or even as governments claim. People lie, governments lie, the media lies.
Corruption is everywhere. However, only a fool would think that any country that replaces the US as the worlds only superpower, would behave any differently.
I'd much prefer the US in charge, than China in charge, wouldn't you?
Anyway, the corruption and lies are here to stay, whoever our paymasters are.

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------

I agree with you there, but I'm not sure what the US plan to do with Assange. Martyrdom would be a disaster for the US in my view.

If Assange is guilty in any way of raping someone, then he should feel the full force of the law, no doubt in my mind about that whatsoever.

But if he isn't, I doubt justice will ever be done for him because it looks to me that the character assassination is just about complete.