Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

:clap:

Seems most threads end up being an argument about Virgin Vs. SKY these days. Must admit it's getting very boring and makes reading some of the threads in the Virgin Media TV section a real chore. In fact it takes some of the fun out of visting Cable Forum:(

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I agree, Ok its the "cableforum" so lots of positive comments about cable will be made, but it would be nice to Sky mentioned without certain members taking it as a personal insult and going in to a frenzy.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

WTF:confused::confused::confused:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Ok Maggy will stop to the topic

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Their is nothing stopping VM investing in Sports/Movie rights like BT. When the rights come up for Auction its an open market. You cant ignore the auction then cry when you didn't get anything. VM invested in TiVo exclusivley, why not EPL?

The same arguments are wearing thinner and thinner.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Maybe they should, but not by the competition regulator, because it simply isn't stopping Sky competing.

The judgment today appears to suggest that not having full access to Sky channels isn't stopping Virgin competing either.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I have had enough of this so will not be back
.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I would have thought that VM just don't have the money to invest in purchasing the rights to show the sports direct at auction when up against the might of Murdochs deeper pockets due to having a larger share of the media market by dint of being first onto the scene..
They simply get outbid so maybe they just can't be bothered and so seek other products to sell to existing and future customers which they can cover cost ways..:shrug:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I'm sure you're intelligent enough to understand Murdoch does not own Sky, and Sky are right now as we speak buying back £500 million in shares mostly from Murdoch.

So soon he won't be a factor,

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

No his organisation part owned it..and he had a huge influence over it.However that wasn't the point I was making.;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Yeah but lets not look into some of the owners of VM debt hey,;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

News Corp own 39% of BSkyB

Virgin's largest single investor owns 14%

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Panick stations panick stations,:D

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

But i am sure the poo associated with some of the Murdoch papers and what they did will continue to be thrown at Sky for a long time yet. Just buying back the shares that he owns will not stop that.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Would think myself that sky sports uptake on VM will be even lower in future now the sky sports collection is £25.75! they have lost me for a start.:(

£4 a month dearer then sky i think and more expensive certainly then smallworld cable sell sky sports for.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

For £25.75 a month come October one would hope we get the missing Sky Sports HD channels which we currently have not got.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Would not think so den sky are not going to let VM have them unless ordered to do so,they use those as a unique selling point over VM.:(

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The problem is that it is easy to blame Sky and say they won't let VM have a channel. But the evidence actually suggests VM don't always want to do business.

Its convenient to say VM is the victim but it isn't really.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

What does make it intersting though is OFCOM ordered sky to let VM have access to sky sports 1/2 in HD in the pay tv review, but made no such order for sky sports 3/4 HD and lo and behold VM do not have them.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

And what evidence is that dear Lex?.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Whats to say VM want them?

---------- Post added at 09:14 ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 ----------

Have you actually read the report linked to earlier in this thread?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Point 29 and 36 dispute OFCOM's findings on that

Try reading the PDF ;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Depends what you mean by that.

I'm sure, if Virgin chucked enough money at Sky, they could have Sky Atlantic and Sports 3/4 HD. However VM always have to consider what any channel addition may do the cost of subscription, and whether it's worth doing.

Premier Sports is an example of where Virgin Media were quite happy to do business, just not on the terms the channel wanted due to them not thinking it was the best value way for the business and their customers.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Yes they may dispute OFCOMS findings, but the fact of the matter is OFCOM still ordered sky to let VM and others have access to sky sports 1/2 in HD.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Oh but l have read it but the trouble is certain posters will put their own rose tinted glasses on and slant it to suit their own biased views on it. :)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I agree. VM probably are at optimal levels in terms of the price they charge and channels they offer.

But that is very different to what is being said on this thread regarding Sky not playing game.

I take it then that you did not actually bother reading it then.

You really need to stop accusing other people. Paragraph 29 clearly states that Sky were more willing to do business than counterparties yet you keep accusing others of lying.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

So there you go, you can have Premier sports but you can't afford it(nothing to do with Sky),Virginmedia have been free to buy in ITV2,3,4HD for over a year(nothing to do with Sky) you could have Atlantic and Skysports 3/4 in HD but can't afford it.

You give HD for free, Sky charge £10.25, if Virginmedia had a HD fee then they would be able to afford the extra channels. It Virginmedias choice to offer HD inclusive in XLtv. If that leaves their pockets a bit short then blame VM's bean counters for making a bad decision.

This report has really given the customers good information.

---------- Post added at 09:55 ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 ----------


If you had of read it you would see your "Sky withhold channels" argument you've been spouting out for years has just been blown out the water.:D


Virgin customer have the right amount of content at the price point they pay, more premium content is out there but they may have to pay more.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The thing though with premier on Vm Telly was this VM offered to have premier sports on as a sandalone channel as per sky,but premier sports wanted to go in the TVXL pack,so it was not VMs fault premier sports turned down the chance to be on cable.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Its alright and fine to do business but the problem is that one side is asking for ridiculously high carriage fees knowing full well that any sane company would never agree to those high carriage rates to start off with.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

How do you know? You're assuming.

Maybe other providers want the content cheap to try to under cut Sky? At the price offered they can sell at the same price as Sky and still make some £'s?

Any where there is a reseller or middleman the price often increase to the end user, in this case VM would just be the middleman reselling Sky content. Thats how its works for good or bad.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Then how is it Sky Atlantic is not available to Smallworld or BT?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Given Sky's track record on these things over a period of quite a few years l think you will find that is fact as Sky have a serial track record of doing these things time after time and quite clearly in that process they are abusing their market position and thats a fact as well.:)

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To be fair if Sky do keep just one channel for themselves even you can't begrudge that.

Other wise you just end up with an unfair playing field where all content is the same but every VM customer has the option of 100Mb and Sky's offering may only be 3Mb.

If in VM areas Sky could resell VM cable then I suspect VM would have Atlantic, But Sky need its USP. Just like VM have superfast broadband.

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------


What things do they do time and time again? An what is this "track record" you always chat about. The only network I see that 100% withholds access to its services is Virginmedia.

---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 ----------

Sometimes its seems in my opinion virgin want ALL sky content Cheap, to resell BT services, to have exclusive use of TiVo.

But they dont want anyone having access to any of there products or services deliberatly withholding access to its cable network forcing customers to choose VM if they want fast broadband.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I think you're always gonna get the people that will be forever blame sky for virgins shortcomings. Doesnt matter what they read what a tribunal says, jesus, neil berket himself could come out and admit it but these people will still blame Sky, they're dominant market position, for the fact that virgin are missing a few HD channels, and virgin customers have to be little pirates and download G O T or any other decent show on Sky Atlantic. I really dont get it, its like these little hippy kids you get after the first year at uni think they know it all about how the world should work and how we should still feel sorry for coal miners and the tories are the devil. Thats how i see SOME (deffinitely not all) of the people on this forum. Why dont you just bite the bullet get that lovely little mini dish installed, and believe in better ;) that way you can all stop moaning about missing channels, murdoch, and everything else you decide to blame sky for.

Get over it virgin didnt want to play ball and now have been exposed as the liars they are, putting it out as skys fault for a long time when in reality its virgin who you can all blame for the lack of HD and other channels you dont have. Notice how there isnt an official press release from Virgin, wondering what line to feed there ever loving fanboys next i guess...

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

And to think you actually accuse other people of wearing rose tinted glasses :rolleyes:

Re-read the report. It CLEARLY states that the cable company and Sky entered negotiations and it is the fault of the cable company that there was no conclusion to the negotiations. Despite what you keep on saying, the reason for the breakdown in negotiations was not price. It was the Cable company's lack of willingness to do business.

Despite what you might say, the actual evidence is that VM do not carry these channels because they do not wish to do so. Instead, VM have made it a habit of running to OFCOM crying about Sky when in fact the evidence suggests that this is a negotiation tactic by VM in itself, by forcing Sky to do business or face an unfair regulator in OFCOM.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Well said, deffinitely a few to many people on here with an oppinion, that haven't read the report. mind-boggling really.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Surely even OFCOM are going to struggle to open yet another un-needed investigation into Sky.

Sky should be looking at opening a harassment complaint against OFCOM if this continues.It would also be interesting to see who provides Paytv services to OFCOM staff. Could you imagine if they were a majority of Virginmedia customers lol.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I doubt now wether OFCOM will launch another pay tv review the last one took the best part of three years,and i cannot see them wanting to do so at the moment.

Of course the real losers in some ways are consumers as if they want said product they have a restricted choice of where to get it from.:(

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I agree, if I want TiVo I'm restricted to Virginmedia, If I want 100Mb broadband I'm restricted to Virginmedia. Never mind maybe next time they will force VM to open up.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

so true

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Sorry Telly but my pocket disagrees with your arguments.

I will be paying more for Sky Sports while not getting SS3, SS4, SSN and SF1 in HD. (Smallworld's owner says Virgin need to charge that much) I don't get HD for free, I pay for the XL pack and I pay £7 for just two HD Sky Sports channels.

It seems to me that I am paying through the nose for limited Sky content, I am sure things would be much worse without OFCOM.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Yes but you get TiVo and upto 100Mb broadband, Virginmedias chosen road map many years ago was the UK's fastest widely available broadband which they have achieved and should be applauded for. TiVo is a fantastic product thats only going to get better, I'm told VM's ondemand puts Skys effort to shame, Your Tv pack includes ESPN.

So included in your price is all the above, You're getting fantastic value for money and you do get SS3 SS4 SSN SSF1 and you can enjoy those channels. You're not missing anything apart from a few pixels.

Sky chose to buy content, create content, invest in new channels, Virgin sold its channels to get more content in deal both sides were very happy with.

Virgin has achieved its goal of fast broadband, Sky has achieved its goal of great content. Its no good spitting your dummy out now. I'm not Anti VM my view like it or not is balanced and fair.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The consumers are always the ones who take the hit.:(

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

yes and it not going to change that

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Interestingly, Michael Blair QC who was assisting the Tribunal President disclosed at one of the earlier case management sessions that he was a VM customer who subscribed to the sports package. Sort of shoots your assertion in the foot somewhat.

Cheers

Grim

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

My "assertion" was in jest, the people on the tribunal are there due to professionalism and excellence. Who gets their £50 a month really is a mute point.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

You are missing the point Telly.

I am a Sky customer, via Virgin which I prefer for the reasons you state. What I am saying is that the product I am buying, indirectly, from Sky is begining to seem a poor value purchase.

I am not throwing a dummy anywhere, I am considering spending my money in a different way.

As has been said previously, this is all bad news for the consumer.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Well its your choice where your money goes, if you feel virginmedia no longer offer value for money due to a couple of missing SSHD channels then do what you think is right. You could move to Sky but you'll pay more and won't get ESPN, not sure its worth it for 4 channels you already get just not in HD.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The prices are pretty much the same for Sky and Virgin ok Virgin do not have a few of the channels well the solution is simple switch to Sky and stop moaning

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Actually the solution is to watch the match at the Gym while exercising instead of at home while eating junk food :)

Switch to Sky and lose fast broadband and TIVO, how is that a good idea. It seems strange that a Cable forum is full of Sky fans.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Nice to see consistency in your propositions.....;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I like Sky's product however agree with many posters on here pay TV is getting very expensive now , for me it's something I can comfortably afford however I do have levels to what I'm happy to pay. My main sports are Rugby League , football , American Football and Ice Hockey however with the current rights acqusitions in 18 months or so time , I would need a sub to four channels (BT Sports , Premier Sports , Sky Sports , ESPN ) which is less than ideal especially when you factor in you need a base tv pack increasing your costs even more. In an ideal world I love to be able to cut Sky/VM/BT out altogether and get a sub to premier league , NFL network , NHL via something like a Roku type box.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

It's not, you're just getting an opposing view.

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The majority of Sky customers here are ex VM customers that used to post here as VM customers before changing.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Maybe not all of us 'sky fans' started off with sky, I can't get VM where I am and I would if I could.

As it happens I phoned sky to cancel this morning so at the moment I'm looking at getting freesat instead.

But it doesn't mean I'd be leaving CF though. ;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

It doesn't surprise me that when called on your comments they suddenly become made in jest. I agree with some of the things you say, but the cheap jibes and side swipes make you look petty, puerile and narrow minded.

I think the outcome of the Tribunal was not much more than a score draw (intentional sports pun), and doesn’t really clarify the situation. What have we found out: Ofcom do have the right to impose restrictions on Sky, but in this instance they went about it in the wrong way. The argument put forward by VM didn't seem to hold must weight in the eyes of the Tribunal, and if that interpretation is correct then the perception that VM are blameless and the badly done-to party in channel negotiations is wrong. I might be wrong but I’m not aware of VM ever officially saying (other than in the above appeal) that they have been wronged. I will not pass judgement on Sky until I've read the judgement in full, as we've only seen a summary to date so there may well be some criticism of sky in the full document.

Cheers

Grim

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Good post!

I guess if I really wanted to I could afford to have Sky for sport and Cable for everything else but it seems such a poor value proposition. I like the base service on Cable so that is where I will stay. I may decide that Sky Sports plus two channels of HD is not good value for money, there are many ways to enjoy life.

By the way I am sitting at the computer smiling, it is other people who use phrases like "throwing your dummy out" and "moaning".

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

That would be the ideal solution and one I would sign up to straight away.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Excuse me but VM do packs without TV

Sky World HD £65.75
Sky Multi room £10.25
VM 100 meg and talk unlimited £44.40

total cost £120.40

VM 100 VIP £93.25
phone rental £13.90
dunno if HD sports is included? £7

total cost £114.15 or £107.15

so as a virgin customer you get the whole lot cheaper so tha tcovers the few channels you lose but you can go to Sky get them all and only pay 8 quid for it

you have the option to vote with your feet if you so desire

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

sorry I was spending ages researching my post I hope its ok to leave it?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

What about those that cannot get sky then? or indeed those that have no access to cable.

You make switching sound so easy when in reality its now always so.:)

But there you are the dispute between ofcom and sky rumbles on in one way or another i guess,whilst consumers are on the sidelines.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Its a dispute between ofcom and Sky following complaints from Virgin. Ofcom are the middle man, this is about a dispute between Sky and Virgin. Ironically, and the reason I suspect that this thread is full of "Sky fans", its a dispute that most Virgin customers don't care about-only a minority of one in ten even subscribe to the Sports channels, fewer still, I imagine would be prepared to pay for hd channels and the ratings for Atlantic, a channel available to 10 million households, are pathetic no matter how many times we're told that "there's some really good stuff on there". I'm glad Virgin aren't prepared to do a deal on these things, but I do wish they'd admit that this was the case-after all, not paying for channels that the majority of people don't want is not a "shortcoming", its good business sense. Virgin aren't Sky, it should stop trying to be.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The dispute was between VM and Sky!

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Actually, what we are discussing is the Sky appeal against the Ofcom rulings..;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

So has there been any further info on this for those of us that are not lawyers, i would have searched the thread but there is still a lot of waffle in it.

In particular is there clarification of who has to do what and when if any ???.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Yes Yes!!!!

SO EFFING BORED with Sky v VM ballship! GET A GRIP PEOPLE!!!

FAR more interested in what this means for VM viewers (if anything)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Seems to suggest Sky have won - http://m.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/a...a&type=article

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Unfortunately you can't discuss what this means for VM viewers in this thread. Its been made quite clear this thread is only for discussing Sky's successful appeal to OFCOM.

But you can't discuss the grounds of the appeal or how it effects virginmedia. To be honest no one is actually sure what we can discuss.

I tried to be ontopic discussing one of the grounds of the appeal was Virginmedia walking away from negotiations to carry extra sky channels but that was deemed off topic.

But I think for VM viewers everything stays the same, had the outcome been different Virgin would of paid less for some content. Only VM know if the savings would of ever made it to the customer.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

This sums it up quite well:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/09/sky_sports_ok/

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Cheers Ben, Much better than some of the guff that i have seen posted. :tu:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

everything be the same we not get get the extra hd channels and the prices will keep going up

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Of that we can assured of Dave l am afraid.:(

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Don't be such a doom sayer, VM are free to return to negotiations to get the extra channels, Nothing is being withheld.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Who said they ever stopped?

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;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

If they wanted you couldnt begrudge them, but they havent ;),

I'm off to count how many of my posts you've quoted me in the last 2 days, Seems you're "On patrol"..Trained at Police academy perhaps lol? Isd constantly quoting someone trying to discredit them classed as bullying around here? Just wondering.

Infact Hugh you raise a great point, Sky could "Withhold" some none regulated channels but they don't, they're there for the taking. But this thread is not about Sky V VM. But as you quoted me I felt obliged to reply.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Well i,m pretty sure sky won cos i got a txt messaage from virgin that my sky sports package will increase in oct so i have had 3 prices increases this yr this one is another £3.25 so form £96.50 a month to £112 :(

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

This £3.25 increase was planned before the ruling was announced, if sky have it there way more price increases could well follow for non sky subscribers

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Sky ought to be careful about out pricing non sky sports subscribers,other ways of watching are available.;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Although I'm kind of struggling to get to grips with where this is at the moment, if the WMO goes, then I think Sky will surely put up prices a bit more.